The U.S. as a whole, sucks.

[480sx]

Your posts in this thread are getting to the point where im not going to bother dealing with you because it seems like this concept is over your head.

"Hate" is an inherently irrational emotion.

Then so is love, fear, any emotion really. We arnt so evolved yet guy. The Amygdala still has the first swing at anything we process in our day to day lives. It can be superseded by the cortex, but the emotions can also be complimented by the same. Rationalized emotions.

You defend "hate" as long as its against America.

Im not defending hate at all guy. Iv made this point really, really clear. Im defending a persons right to 'Hate' and still be considered. To have a rational hatred of things. To not be dismissed as a 'retard' simply because he/she hates something.

Why is this concept so hard for you to understand? You are human.

You need to choose your words wisely and decide if you're defending criticism of America, which we should all engage in, or "hate", which is rooted in emotion rather than reason.

/facepalm

The emotion hate CAN be combined with sound reasoning. Same with love, fear, ect. A lot of times emotion will override sound reasoning, this is human nature.

However, it is quite possible to have a perfectly sound reason for being in love. Why then is it not possible to have a perfectly sound reason to hate?

Get your language issues sorted out so we can understand what it is you're muttering about, then come back and play.

You havnt been able to hang with me in this discussion, you cant even grasp a simple concept iv spelt out in so many ways a child could understand. This line is a boarder line joke to me. Your the only one who seems to have a problem understanding this, so speak for yourself.

The chide remarks and condescending tone is getting you no where and will be thrown right back at you if you persist.

[Jesda]

Love and hate are not products of "reason". You can have "reasons" and "causes" for love and hate, but they are not innately reasonable. They are emotions that spawn as a product of true and false judgments, high and low expectations, rationalizations, limited perspectives, and personal beliefs.

Reason is an entirely different concept.

Emotion is not thinking. Thinking can lead to emotion, and emotion can lead to thinking, but emotion in and of itself is not thinking. You need to understand that hating America is not the same as criticizing it. If you cannot comprehend a universe where these two differing concepts exist, then I cannot help you.

We cannot have a debate if you are using invalid terms. Without agreement on terms, the discussion goes nowhere.

Sort yourself out.

[480sx]

You dont know how the brain works for starters, you have it all backwards.

I hate pedophiles. This is an emotion tied with sound thinking and reasoning. So, with your line of thinking, everyone else in the 'Hate pedoph:le crowd' is full of 'emotional nonsensical hate'? These people are 'effing retarded', and should not be considered. Right. Or maybe they should stick to a rational critique of pedophiles.

"If you cannot comprehend a universe where these two differing concepts exist, then I cannot help you."

Its all part of human nature, existence, LIFE, while the concepts might differ they still converge to form a human being, a mind. Believe me, after this discussion i understand you cant help me, so no need to worry about that.

Iv never said that emotion is thinking guy.. But it plays a part in a lot of thought processes. Seriously this conversation is going no where because this stuff is just out of your reach.

My invalid terms and inability to sort myself out have ended this discussion.

[themadscientist]

My invalid terms and inability to sort myself out have ended this discussion.

No ****, welcome to several posts ago.

[Jesda]

You dont know how the brain works for starters, you have it all backwards.

I hate pedophiles. This is an emotion tied with sound thinking and reasoning. So, with your line of thinking, everyone else in the 'Hate pedoph:le crowd' is full of 'emotional nonsensical hate'?

No. Hating pedophiles is not inherently rational. What if you hate them because they have big noses?

Hatred is an emotion, and it comes as a result of BOTH rational and irrational thinking -- often irrational. This is why blindly defending hate is invalid. You can attempt to justify certain hatreds for certain people, but as a whole, it can't be defended as a form of rational thinking because it by definition is not thinking, its feeling.

Some people hate America because they're goat-farking cave dwellers who run terrorlst organizations. Some hate America because of inhumane decisions made by the US government.

You can't defend hate itself, because it has no certain basis in reason. It is simply an emotional reaction, and nothing more. You are elevating it to something that should be defended intellectually, and it isn't. The idea behind a debate or discussion is to break down feelings into coherent thoughts, beliefs, and ideas.

So, again, this debate is dead because your terms are incorrect.

[mrzabala]

I got a couple of words for our money and the gov't, If you look it up in a deeper way you would **** yourself. Modern Money Mechanics, Money = Debt, illegal consideration, etc.Debt is the primary weapon and interest is its primary ammunition. Damn the Banks.Here's a little twisted quote I like, "Slavery is but the owning of labor and carries with it the care of the laborers, while the European plan... is that capital shall control labor by controlling wages. This can be done by controlling the money. It will not do to allow the Greenback... as we cannot control that." 'The Hazard Circular' July 1802.

Do your research on the internet. The Media won't help as it's controlled and filtered in various ways to keep us away from the truth.

[themadscientist]

That post was all over the place, can you condense that into a brief, clear statement?

[480sx]

No. Hating pedophiles is not inherently rational.

False, it actually is quite rational. Hate is associated to a pedoph:le by habit and basic human nature so therefor it is an inherently rational emotion.

This is why blindly defending hate is invalid. You can attempt to justify certain hatreds for certain people, but as a whole, it can't be defended as a form of rational thinking because it by definition is not thinking, its feeling.

This is why im not going to argue with you anymore. Your reading what you want to read instead of what im writing. Im not freaken defending hate, for the 2nd or 3rd time.

You simply said, to put it bluntly, that everyone, everywhere who hates America is retarded and should not be considered. You keep straying from that one point that i have been hammering, trying to dig yourself out of a hole.

it can't be defended as a form of rational thinking because it by definition is not thinking, its feeling.

Of course the raw emotion hate cant be defended as a rational form of thinking, for the last fvking time, get it through your head thats not what im saying.

Some people hate America because they're goat-farking cave dwellers who run terrorlst organizations. Some hate America because of inhumane decisions made by the US government.

Some people also hate America because we have treated the middle east like red headed step children. Some people hate America because we have blown up their families and lives with misguided rockets. Your dismissing those peoples existences wrongfully.

You can't defend hate itself, because it has no certain basis in reason. It is simply an emotional reaction, and nothing more. You are elevating it to something that should be defended intellectually, and it isn't. The idea behind a debate or discussion is to break down feelings into coherent thoughts, beliefs, and ideas.

Am i defending hate? No. I am contesting a point you made. Your point was that everyone who hates America is ignorant, retarded, and should not be considered.

Thats at least the 5th time iv told you this, but i still doubt you will acknowledge my core argument, it just seems to miss you every time even though its spelled out as plain as day. Its only possible for you to try to spin my words into this and that than acknowledge my argument it seems.

So, again, this debate is dead because your terms are incorrect.

This was never a debate at all. This was me calling you out for your narrow minded beliefs, trying to broaden your view on human nature, philosophy, psychology and reality. You still dont have a leg to stand on, but yet you think your running in circles around me.

Incorrect terms.. FFS... What kind of vague garbage is that anyway?

[themadscientist]

This is why im not going to argue with you anymore.

How many times are you going to say that before you actually stop?

He thinks that because he is running circles around you.

[480sx]

So you really think that everyone who hates something should be disregarded as a retard, cast aside and not considered? Your siding with Jesda on this core belief? That all hate is irrational, basically.

Pretty narrow minded approach to life.

To say that emotions are inherently irrational is to believe that you have somehow evolved past the capacities and functions of the human brain.

This argument thats being supported that the majority of emotions lack any kind of support through reasoning is mind boggling.. There arnt many people who just walk around having completely irrational feelings of hate and love. Although there are quite a few people who are irrational by nature, to say that a majority of peoples brains are setup to where their emotions cant be backed by sound reasoning is flawed.

I really cant believe i cant get some more support on this, this isnt some wild theory here.
Modified by 480sx at 7:47 PM 1/19/2009

[mcheddadi]

I am an american. This country sucks. Our government will screw us six ways from sunday and we will take it like we love it. I'm sorry to be an american and if our money was worth a **** i'd leave. It's just wrong, a 700 billion dollar bailout, to we as a people caring more about celebrities lives than our friends. I wish there was something i could do, but theres not. It's just sad, GW screwed us.

LOLZ! funniest poast EVARRRR!

[480sx]

Hatred is an emotion, and it comes as a result of BOTH rational and irrational thinking -- often irrational.

Anyway, i was stuck in war mode and missed my victory. Thank you for conceding that your original point that i was attacking was flawed.

While hate may often times may be irrational, the opposite is true as well.

Not everyone who hates America is retarded. Not everyone who hates America should be cast aside and dismissed. There are sound reasons for people, groups, countries, ect to hate America. As hard as this is for most of us to accept, it is a cold hard fact.

[themadscientist]

So you really think that everyone who hates something should be disregarded as a retard, cast aside and not considered? Your siding with Jesda on this core belief? That all hate is irrational, basically.

Bingo. Hate is an emotion and emotion-based decisions are not logical. people who act based on that are not credible and I would dismiss them as if a child in the throes of a tantrum.

Pretty narrow minded approach to life.

No, just realistic. Philosophy is fun and we can bandy about theories till the wee hours but in the real world, in the presence of limiting factors of life one must adjust such dreamy ideals to reflect real life.

To say that emotions are inherently irrational is to believe that you have somehow evolved past the capacities and functions of the human brain.

This argument thats being supported that the majority of emotions lack any kind of support through reasoning is mind boggling.. There arnt many people who just walk around having completely irrational feelings of hate and love. Although there are quite a few people who are irrational by nature, to say that a majority of peoples brains are setup to where their emotions cant be backed by sound reasoning is flawed.

The thing that seperates a higher life form from a basic animal is the ability to seperate emotions from the decision-making process. I can do that in most cases so I guess that means I am some super being by your definition.

I really cant believe i cant get some more support on this, this isnt some wild theory here.

That is because you are incapable of stepping outside your own closely held beliefs to entertain the possibility you are wrong. Without that you cannot process what you are seeing, namely people disagreeing with you.

Pride, another emotion one should not base decisions on.

[480sx]

Iv already smoked my victory cigar, but i will continue this because i enjoy it.

Bingo. Hate is an emotion and emotion-based decisions are not logical. people who act based on that are not credible and I would dismiss them as if a child in the throes of a tantrum.

I said nothing about emotion based decisions, your going into a whole other realm. I agree with you, for the most part.

You can still have whatever emotion you feel be it love, hate, fear, and act quite rationally. This is the evolution of the brain, what separates us from animals as you say. However emotions still play, and most likely will always play some roll in our decision making process. The lesser the better.

No, just realistic. Philosophy is fun and we can bandy about theories till the wee hours but in the real world, in the presence of limiting factors of life one must adjust such dreamy ideals to reflect real life.

Realistic you say? To live in your world is to discount and ignore Jihad among many other things, and a long list of topics that fall into the R category. Real life isnt here where there is a higher concentration of intellectuals. I dont think we can ignore the hate that Islamic extremist feel towards us, to do so is foolish.

What makes a terrorlst? Not a rhetorical question, im curious if you know the answer. Its not a trick question or bait.

The thing that seperates a higher life form from a basic animal is the ability to seperate emotions from the decision-making process. I can do that in most cases so I guess that means I am some super being by your definition.

Again, your talking about emotional based decisions while im talking about emotional based thoughts and sentiments. Sorry Super-Man.

That is because you are incapable of stepping outside your own closely held beliefs to entertain the possibility you are wrong. Without that you cannot process what you are seeing, namely people disagreeing with you.

Far from it. Jesda contradicted himself and proved my argument to be valid. I just think that im usually right, until someone proves me wrong. That has yet to happen in this thread.

Pride, another emotion one should not base decisions on.

But one so hard to swallow. Mines still enjoying its place on my pallet.

[themadscientist]

I don't care what makes a terrorlst. I don't care about their Jihad. Just something to deal with if it comes my way. I am not going to sit around and try to identify with a person who bases their actions on emotions in the first place so we never get to that point where I have to rationalize it like you seem so interested in doing.I don't hate anyone or anything even that whack job with the bomb belt. He is just an animal at that point, a rabid dog. You don't talk to a rabid dog, you watch it and if it becomes necessary you kill it. You want to understand the dog's motivations for snapping at you, I have no time or tolerance for such silly fruitless exercises. If it stays in its yard we are fine, the minute it jumps the fence I will kill it.I won't kill it because I hate it, I don't, I won't kill it because it scares me, it doesn't. I will kill it because it represents a danger to my survival that must be dealt with. I will not then go on and kill people from that country because of this joker.

As this man here said.

"Hate America" is a lot different from "This is a decent country but deeply flawed in many ways."

The "Hate America" crowd is effing retarded. Period.

I still agree.

[480sx]

Its hard to disagree with that post. I picked it apart and took it to another level that was never intended.

That post says 'Everyone who hates America is retarded'. If it had said, most people in the hate America crowd are retarded, it would have been a non issue because i would almost agree. Instead of calling them retarded however i would say uninformed, biased, narrow minded, uneducated, pumped full of propaganda, the list goes on.

We as Americans have a luxury of a news network that is as close to free as your going to get in today's USA. We also have the luxury of the internet, and in its current state it is free and we are free to read from different perspectives and analyses from people around the world if we so chose. Most people in the middle east do not have such luxuries.

Things we take for granted, other people see as dreams or impossibilities. Try to broaden the scope of your vision to a world scale. Things are much different everywhere else, and most Americans dont realize/accept this.

Dismissing people, as you and Jesda are so quick to do, is what got us into this mess that we are involved in in the Middle East. We need to wise up.

[mrzabala]

That post was all over the place, can you condense that into a brief, clear statement?

No doubt it is, it wouldn't be a solid statement if I briefly described it. Watch the "Zeitgeist The movie" and "Zeitgeist Addendum" (this one goes into more detail about 'money'). Its an eye opener but something I wouldn't want to preach as everyone has different opinions.

[Jesda]

Dismissing people, as you and Jesda are so quick to do, is what got us into this mess that we are involved in in the Middle East. We need to wise up.

I didn't dismiss you. I very actively and vocally acknowledged you by engaging you in this silly discussion.

Dismissing you would require me to ignore the thread.