The Latest Islamic Suicide Attack

[audtatious]

By Robert Spencer FrontPageMagazine.com | 6/11/2008

Who is responsible for the June 2 suicide attack against the Danish Embassy in Pakistan that killed six people? An increasing number would say that the Danes themselves are responsible, or at least the Danish government, for its obstinate attachment to that irritating little principle of free speech. On Wednesday, June 4, a web posting claiming to be from Al-Qaeda said that the bombing was fulfillment of Osama bin Laden’s vow to exact revenge for the cartoons of the Muslim prophet Muhammad that ran in a Danish newspaper in 2005. Fauzia Mufti Abbas, Pakistan’s ambassador to Denmark addressed a rhetorical question to the people of Denmark: “I’d like to know if your newspaper is satisfied with what it has done and what it has unleashed?”

You read that right. Fauzia Mufti Abbas, after jihadist thugs and murderers in her country killed six innocent people because of some cartoons published in a newspaper half a world away, had the volcanic chutzpah to say to Denmark that “the people of Pakistan that feel they have been harassed by what your newspaper has begun.”

Speaking strictly for myself, I feel more harassed by the murders of six people (who, by the way, had nothing to do with the cartoons, although even if they had been the cartoonists themselves this would be no better) than I do by any affront to my religion. If Fauzia Mufti Abbas or you or anyone else drew cartoons of people I revere and respect, people I think brought the best things to humanity, if you made fun of them, ridiculed and mocked them in the most outrageous terms, I might think you were a boor. I might think you were an idiot. But I would not kill you. I would not kill anyone else. I would not think anyone else was justified in killing you or anyone else. I would chalk it up to the fact that people differ in good faith about what is true and good, and we all have to live in the same world.

Muslims the world over, Fauzia Mufti Abbas and Osama bin Laden included, need to understand, but probably never will, that to suggest that the offense they have suffered, or want us to think they have suffered, or want us to think that their coreligionists have suffered, is sufficient to warrant the killing of anyone, is a monstrous exercise in moral myopia. Muslims who are agitating for restrictions on freedom of speech in the West (Pakistan has just asked the EU to impose such restrictions) have lost all perspective, if they ever had any to begin with. And now they are demanding that we lose all perspective as well.

Many already have. The respected analyst of Al-Qaeda Rohan Gunaratna has sided with Fauzia Mufti Abbas: “There is still a lot of dissatisfaction here about the cartoons,” he tells us, “as well as the fact that the Danish government still has not condemned them or the people that were responsible for them. As long as that hasn’t happened, Denmark will be under the constant threat of militant Muslims.” So evidently it’s all up to the Danish government. Muslim leaders in Pakistan have no responsibility to tell their “militant Muslims” that the cartoons did not harm them or Muhammad, and that rioting and killing for this is wrong, and, indeed, insane. They need not tell them that. Apparently Gunaratna believes that their irrational outrage is always our responsibility to rein in.

Of course, Muslim leaders, in Pakistan and elsewhere, want to foster exactly that perception, because it coalesces neatly with the Islamic supremacist agenda. Muslims may do whatever they wish. It is up to Western non-Muslims to adjust and adapt however they must, in order to placate them. And that includes everything up to and including abandoning the freedom of speech in favor of the chastened silence prescribed for dhimmis in Islamic law.

Fauzia Mufti Abbas question was actually quite apposite: “I’d like to know if your newspaper is satisfied with what it has done and what it has unleashed?” That is the question that should be asked of all Muslims who have killed or exhorted others to violence over these cartoons -- not of the cartoonists or any Western government.

[HashiriyaS14]

Couldn't agree with him more.

Not that it'll do anyone any good, the perspectives won't ever change.

Luckily, it isn't even close to a majority of the Muslim world that feels that killings are an apt response for offensive cartoons.

We need to focus on seperating the few extremists from the vast number of moderates, politically and socially.

This is why the current situation with the Palestinians, with Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in the West Bank is GOOD for us. It is gradually allowing us (and the moderate muslims) to better weed out who's crazy and who's just getting taken along for the ride.

Generally, this is the last thing the extremists want, as they know that their ability to blend into an innocent population is the only thing that keeps them safe.

[audtatious]

Us simply not believing in Muhammad is enough for them to continue their ways. Until they stop teaching kids to kill and hate then we will constantly have to deal with more and more issues.

[rn79870]

The funny thing is that in kind retaliation is what it is going to take to solve the problem. Say cruise missile with a nuclear payload detonated over the next large militant rally.

I'm half in jest with this. The half that isn't in jest realizes that this will solve the problem, and make them think twice about pulling their crap again. Frankly, I wouldn't care if Iran ceased to exist. Better all of them than one of us.

[HashiriyaS14]

Us simply not believing in Muhammad is enough for them to continue their ways. Until they stop teaching kids to kill and hate then we will constantly have to deal with more and more issues.

Yes, for a tiny portion of the world Islamic population, this IS the case. This is why we need to start driving a wedge betwixt the radical few and the moderate masses.

Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Palestine have taught us that the vast majority of people in these societies are very unhappy with the extremist violence. They want to peacefully participate in world affairs and live their lives like citizens of any other nation, and yet these few sickos are making that impossible.

The hundreds of thousands of enthusiastic coalition volunteers, soldiers, police, and voters in these places prove that the masses are beginning to lose patience with the wackmobiles and thus are slowly getting on board with the idea of occasionally having to sacrifice safety for liberty.

[audtatious]

Iraqi people are currently beginning to turn in these people along with weapons stockpiles. They have to be able to trust that they will have protection when doing so and that is a long road to travel.

[ishkabibble]

Frankly, I wouldn't care if Iran ceased to exist. Better all of them than one of us.

Wow. You've obviously never met an Average Joe from Iran.

I'm amazed that the mod of this forum posted something like this.

[heliochrome85]

as a muslim, i cant agree more. from what ive seen, there isnt anyone ive met who agrees with their tactics or their religious reasoning. Suicide bombers are commiting very heinous SINS according to our book. Jihad is a concept that only applies if you or your family are in physical danger. Last time i checked, most of their attacks have been against non-combatants/innocent people. All i can say is that every society has its crazies. Unfortunately, my society seems to currently have more.

[audtatious]

Not necessarily. Yours just happens to stap bombs on themselves to kill lots of people at one time instead of our idiots who try to do 1 at a time.

[heliochrome85]

i honestly believe that the whole iraq war situation could have been 180 degrees difference, had the planners actually done their job. historically, the Iraqis are the proudest of all the Arabs. They do not take well to other arabs, let alone Western nations interfereing with their affairs. Had the US actually done proper planning, rather than running into Iraq, the transition between Saddam and Provisional authroity would have been much smoother. I was in Syria when saddam was hanged. The common theme was, he was a bad guy, but he was our guy. look how things have gotten worse since he was removed...

Not really confidence inspiring...

If you wnat to stop the suicide attacks, you know what helps? actually finding out what their problem actually is. take away their main beef, and watch how the attacks will stop. they wont be able to recruit since most the the arab world is apathetic to the palestinian cause and definately isnt willing to strap bombs in order to make a point.

[audtatious]

I'm sure a lot of things could have happened differently. We supported some of them against Russia during the cold war and as a sideline supported Saddam against Iran as well. From a history perspective, the region has been screwed by a large number of countries way before the US was even around. Sometimes you are "damned if you do and damned if you don't". Only history will tell what will be the end result. Right now they are on a pace to have their own Gov in place with elected officials to handle their own affairs which is a far cry from the dictatorship under the thumb of Saddam and the Baath party.

While some things have gotten worse because of the terrorists, other things have gotten better and continue to do so. As far as "take away their beef" what should we do? Current events show that simply leaving is not going to change things in the long run because a lot of these organizations will simply continue and preach that their main objective is to force islam on the globe as a whole. So they represent the whole? Of course not. But it's not the "whole" that are blowing up their own people either.

[heliochrome85]

very true. i hope the iraqi government succeeds. honestly though, the government in Syria seems to be making big strides ala China, towards western style and accepted government. Since the death of Hafez Al Assad in 2000, the country as a whole is much more liberal and alot more secular. I think alot of what is wrong in Iraq is due to Saddam, not necessarily the Baath party style of Goverment. He had a God complex and doesnt matter what country you are in, if the leader has a God complex, its bad.

In any case, My main sticking point with obama, to go back to a differnt thread, is his pull out now thinking. It doesnt work. its short sighted and scary. That being said, MAC hasnt exactly done much better in terms of addressing the issue. The big thing for me is that I dont want to elect a president who has delusions of gradeur. GWB seemed/seems to believe that if you bring democracy to people, they will be free. it isnt always the case. things are different in the middle east because their perspective spans millenia, not centuries. relatively speaking, the US is an infant, and the Iraqi people most definately see it that way. You wouldnt take advice from a child, so why should they listen to the US. They might as well wait them out. Im not trying to sound ridiculous, but i have honestly, heard such arguements. These countries have seen the rise and fall of the greatest empires the world has ever seen, and yet, here they are, drinking tea and carrying on life much as they have for millenia, unchanged. that sort of perspective is a big factor to the resistance the US has seen recently in the region. Plus it doesnt help that we came in with a "I know better than you uncivilized people," attitude.

there is an old saying in arabicThere are no pessimists, just optimists with experience. We hope for the best, yet we know better.

yeah its F'd up. Yeah its difficult currently. In the long term, we will all be fine. Im glad saddam is gone, i just wish it wasnt at the expense of so many of our soldiers and countless civilians.

[audtatious]

The issue all stems down to how long it takes a Gov to rebuild itself. While GWB speaks in terms of democracy I do not believe he intends nor intended to force a US-based values system onto the Iraq people. After kicking out Saddam, we could not simply leave and let Iran and others take the country over and instill a puppet regime like Iran or another dictator to have a "god complex". Unfortunately we did the "sit around and wait" routine instead of completing the task at hand of getting the bad guys out of the country, thus terrorlst-sponsored groups were able to instill violence and kill innocent people.

[heliochrome85]

they gained ground in the country because of our bungling. prior to the war, iraqis had power, water, phones, security, gas, food. now several years after the invasion, they are looking around and seeing that life is vastly different. how bad was saddam really? to most iraqis, he wasnt. from what they have seen, the US has destroyed all remnants of civlization and is doing little, in their eyes, to rebuild. now whether that is true or not, it is a valid point of view, and is one that many iraqis share. given that sort of view, its easy to see how an anti-american rhetoric as spewed by extremeists and foreign groups would have a following. seed, meet soil.

alsoiraqis HATE iranians. dont think for a second,that if iran invaded, the iraqis would allow it. im serious. this is a deep seeded hatred. the only way in to iraq would be through the shiite controlled south and even then, they are only so powerful. as they go north, there is now way the iranians would be able to govern. plus all those petrodollars we are so worried about, the ones in saudi hands, you better believe that that money is going towards measures to prevent iranian expansion. the saudis are scared of iran, and rightfully so.

[rn79870]

Wow. You've obviously never met an Average Joe from Iran.

I'm amazed that the mod of this forum posted something like this.

Which average Joe are you referring to? The ones that took over our embassy in violation of international law? The ones that smuggle weapons into Iraq to use against our soldiers? The ones that militantly demonstrate hate and other anti-American propaganda in the streets? The ones that actively promise death to me and my family? Which one of those average Joe's are you referring to? Your "pet the pretty rattlesnake" philosophy isn't going to work - cutting off its head works.

If you had read my post you would have clearly seen that I wrote;nuclear payload detonated over the next large militant rallyand understood what I meant.

[HashiriyaS14]

there is an old saying in arabicThere are no pessimists, just optimists with experience. We hope for the best, yet we know better.

That is a fantastic quote.

And yes, RN, the average citizen of either Iraq or Iran doesn't really care about brining ruin to your family or the United States. They're too concerned with their OWN family and their own daily life, just like we are with our own.

They are NOT the rattlesnake. Lumping everyone in a given nation together is a dangerous habit. Do you want to be lumped together with Ann Coulter, Ken Lay, GWB, Tom Cruise, R Kelley, and every other screwup American? Likely not.

[rn79870]

That's why I said "over the next militant rally."

You run a high risk of getting killed in the middle east merely because your passport says USA on it. How many missionaries, and good will workers have been executed for nothing more than helping the people?

Now, given the fact that I can stay out of the middle east all is well. However, when they (the militants) threaten to "come to America" and kill Americans, I lose all desire to see them alive and well. I haven't done anything to them, yet I'm their enemy. My family has done nothing to any of them, yet they wouldn't hesitate to send a hit squad to the mall and, without a second thought, wipe out as many Americans as they could.

I'm sorry. When it comes to potentially losing a family member to a terrorlst, I could care less if Iran existed tomorrow or not. In fact, if it would insure the safety of my family, I'd volunteer to fly the plane with "the bomb."

If all Iranians aren't terrorlst, then let them cease sponsoring terrorism. Stop with the hate rhetoric. Stop threatening my family. Then, we'll live in peace.

[heliochrome85]

you want to start down the road of international law violations? how bout how israel has been in violation of international law since 1967, when it took land beyond its borders. Numerous UN resolutions have chastized it for doing so. You wanna guess who was the only No vote in the Security Council? You wanna guess who continues to halt any resolution critizing Israel? The fact of the matter is that the US has fanned the flames in the Middle East and continues to do so. Until we get a president who actually cares about what other people think, its going to continue. Whether Macain or Obama win, they have a major PR disaster to clean up. You want the demonstrations to stop, stop calling the Iranians evil and backwards. You want to stop the resistance in Iraq? Treat the iraqis as people/equals, not cattle. You want to Boost US status in the ME? Take a more moderate stance in terms of Israel. You cant continue to call yourself neutral and then stop any critizim of Israel. Tit for tat.

[heliochrome85]

thanks Hash. im not osama even though im arab. there are shades of grey, not just black and white.

[heliochrome85]

last time i checked, the average iranian has no say in the government. they have as much say in the goverment as you have in president bush's "speeches." you live in fear? really? are you joking? How bout you marinate on this. I live in a country where I am guilty before proven innocent. You have any idea how many times ive been stopped in airports because of my name. I get singled out infront of everyone, pulled to a separate room by security, passport put in a RED FILE, then i get grilled for 45min to an hour. A bit about me:

Born in Washington DCGoing to Med school in the USLived my entire life in the USVotePay Taxes

Guess what, that doesnt make any difference. While i dont resent the measures, it does get tiring. You know, some of the biggest acts of terrorism have been done by white people, yet you dont get singled out at all for crime. Blacks, latinos, arabs are all high risk. Its sad. So rather than sitting there and claim to be jeopardy, why dont you listen to the rhetoric coming out of our executive and congressional branches. It is eerily familiar to that which you call a threat to your safety. People hate the US because the US hates them. Your comments about nuking them, at best are small minded, at worst are indictative of a larger problem in our society. The "with us or against us" mentality has never worked, nor will it ever.

You really need to read beyond the pages of US news sources for the truth. I have no doubt you will see what i am talking about.

[rn79870]

Helio, your knowledge of the issues in the middle east exceeds mine. I understand that there is a problem with Israel and the Palestine peoples that needs resolution. But neither of those groups are promising death to me or my family. It's when the problem becomes personal, as it has with their bringing the fight to the shores of America, that I get involved. I see the Israeli issue and the Palestinian issue, and I see needless terrorlst death and destruction on both sides. In fact, I know a couple, man and wife that have lived among the Palestinian people and written a few books about how kind and gentle they are. Tell me, how can a gentle people sponsor a suicide b0mber who is intent on killing innocent people? It doesn't fit. If they attacked a military facility I'd see it differently.

I'd be the first to support complete American pull out from the middle east. Complete, unconditional pullout - IF it guaranteed the safety of America and Americans.

I've never called the Iranian people backwards. I'm sure there are many upstanding, fine people in Iran. However, they seem to lack the conscious, (or possibly the ability) to stand up against violence - regardless of where it is directed.

I agree that the problems in the middle east are partially caused by the policies of the current administration. But tell me, how does threatening me or my family help their cause. It doesn't, it only fills me with a great resolve to see that they are unsuccessful in that goal, by whatever means necessary.

I would much rather live in a world without bombs and bayonets, but those things are necessary to insure my kids grow up in a free society. No one would be happier than I would if there was complete, lasting peace in the middle east. But, in the mean time, I'm concerned about protecting what's dear to me.

[rn79870]

last time i checked, the average iranian has no say in the government. they have as much say in the goverment as you have in president bush's "speeches." you live in fear? really? are you joking? How bout you marinate on this. I live in a country where I am guilty before proven innocent. You have any idea how many times ive been stopped in airports because of my name. I get singled out infront of everyone, pulled to a separate room by security, passport put in a RED FILE, then i get grilled for 45min to an hour. A bit about me:

Born in Washington DCGoing to Med school in the USLived my entire life in the USVotePay Taxes

And let's stop and think about what is responsible for those measures. How many innocent people were on those 4 airliners that day? How many of them had families and futures?

How many people were alive and well in the twin towers minutes before the morons flying the planes destroyed them?

The picture of two burning towers is still fresh in the minds of America. The picture of masses of middle eastern people celebrating in the streets after that tragedy is equally fresh.

It's a different world and unfortunately you're caught up in it. Our policies, however wrong, are in response to events that never should have occurred. In the 7 years following 9/11 we've had no similar attacks on American soil, and I fear what the US response might be if we suffer another attack.

You're quick to blame the US for all the problems in the middle east, but you fail to remember that without 9/11, I doubt the US presence in the middle east would be anything close to what it is now. Perhaps the blame should be shifted a little in this regard.

[heliochrome85]

And let's stop and think about what is responsible for those measures. How many innocent people were on those 4 airliners that day? How many of them had families and futures?

How many people were alive and well in the twin towers minutes before the morons flying the planes destroyed them?

The picture of two burning towers is still fresh in the minds of America. The picture of masses of middle eastern people celebrating in the streets after that tragedy is equally fresh.

It's a different world and unfortunately, you're caught up in it. out policies, however wrong, are in response to events that never should have occurred. In the 7 years following 9/11 we've had no similar attacks on American soil, and I fear what the US response might be if we suffer another attack.

You're quick to blame the US for all the problems in the middle east, but you fail to remember that without 9/11, I doubt the US presence in the middle east would be anything close to what it is now. Perhaps the blame should be shifted a little in this regard.

please dont think im making light of 9/11. Everytime i get stopped, i always make sure to thank them for doing their job. I have no problem with the questioning, just the implication. Only time will tell how this ends. Personally, there is a shift occuring in the middle east away from alqaeda and its counterparts. people are hesitant to join up. thats part of the reason why we havent had an attack in the time since. Im not quick to blame the US. Im looking at the situation historically. Just so you know, alll the channels only showed ONE place dancing in the streets. How would you like it if we chose, say a KKK clan rally, or a Cross burning, and say, LOOK at Americans. Look how barbaric! Trust me, the US has been on one side since practically the 1960s. Israel was another front for the cold war. Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and lebanon were supplied in one way or another by the Soviets. Israel and Iraq were supplied by USA. Whether 9/11 happened or not, the US would still be in a pickle in the Middle East. Im sorry, the cold war ended. Its ok to be nice to other countries in the region. I doubt the US would have been in Iraq, although part of me believes that we still would have.

also, again, im not making light of 9/11, but how does the 9/11 attacks compare to say, other acts of terrorism in the world. how many acts of terrorism or genocide have elicited such a response? We sat ildly by as millions of Hutus were slaughtered in Africa in the 1990s. We also sat as Bosnia was ethnically cleansed. We continue to sit as Darfur goes from bad to worse. Areas like darfur are PRIME recruiting grounds for militant extremeists. Dont believe me? Guess where osama spent most of the 1980s? Somalia.

As much as it bothers me, 9/11 is just small potatoes compared to the atrocites that we have allowed to occur. We only seem to think its a bigger deal because it happened to us. Thats not unjustified, its just unfortunate. If we are truly the best form of government, and our country embodies the best qualities of the human race, i would think compassion for our fellow man would be something our goverment would embrace and promote. the reality is that an american life is worth more to us than a somali life, even if it is true that many americans were previously somali. Do good deeds and the world will take notice. Sit idly by, and watch as the US is sidelined in terms of respect.

[heliochrome85]

please read The Looming Tower. its a chilling damnation of Al-qaeda. I read it. My dad read it. It goes into much greater depth inito the roots of modern day terrorism in the middle east, than any other book ive read. I may just reread it this weekend.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...t_top

http://www.metacritic.com/book...tower

[rn79870]

I see your point, and I agree that America has caused some, not all, of the problems it faces. I also agree that life is precious, and that applies to a tribal member in New Guinea as much as an American.

Unfortunately, peace hasn't worked. how many cease fires, truces, etc. have there been, and how long did they last. Now look at that in a historical perspective. It's happened in the middle east almost as long as history has been recorded.

If I had an answer other than removing any threat, I'd gladly change my position. Offer me another option that will work, and I'll champion your cause.

[AZhitman]

Wow.

Let me pause this thread for a minute and make a couple observations:

One, I'd love to have 6 hours to sit down with helio over a few beers and talk about all this stuff... I often wonder what it's like to see the whole experience through someone else's eyes, and I think there's some insight there that we can learn from.

My pops is first-gen American, from Armenia, so I'm always intrigued by the difference between the real impressions of America and the media depictions... Since Armenia was a Christian nation surrounded by the influences of Islam, I'm sure there'd be some difference, but the whole dynamic interests me.

Back on point - It's time for every person of the Muslim faith to speak out strongly against the atrocities committed by those who have hijacked their faith.

We Christians condemn our misguided zealots, it's time for the followers of Islam to do the same.

[heliochrome85]

i definately agree. The turks slaugthered armenians by the millions. its yet another in a long line of US meddling. Bush attacked congress for passing a bill declaring the masscres of armenians in the 1910s in turkey, genocide. he didnt want to ruffle the feathers of the turks and thereby lose their support in iraq.

The christian community isnt as vocal as it should be in the US. im sorry, but where are the crys against the Westboro Baptist Church? People are mad at them for protesting funerals, not the perversion of the christian faith. Personally, i find their perversion much more scary than their funeral protests. You think Islam is the only militant religion, you are sadly mistaken.

Orthodox Jews in israel have been known to throw bleach on improperly dressed women.

Westboro Baptist Church/ Pat Robertson/ Jerry Fallwell/ Etc

Alqaeda.

n'f said.

[heliochrome85]

kill them with kindness. show the region the same love, care, and respect that the us shows israel or the UK. or treat israel the same way the rest of the region is treated. things will change. trust me. I have a dual citizen ship. I live in damascus, which of all places, should be very anti-american since Syria is the last bastion of the old way of thinking in the Middle East. YET, every time i go there, i get nothing but respect and kindness from the people. The truth is that Americans are highly regarded in the region. Its their government that is at issue. Arabs are able to separate the two. Americans should and can do so as well. I hope that one day you are able to travel to the region because i have no doubt that you will fall in love there.

[AZhitman]

I don't disagree with that - In fact, I'm all for forcing Turkey to turn over half its land and GNP to displaced Armenians and their descendants.

Your call on WBC is spot-on, but remember, we are handcuffed by special-interest groups and meddling pro bono liberal attorneys who would LOVE to sue someone for interfering with WBC's "right to express" themselves.

There's no way one can lump Robertson or Falwell in with the whackos at WBC... There's simply no comparison other than the faith they CLAIM to share - Just as I'd never lump you in with fundamentalist Muslims, these people are worlds apart.

But, your point is well-made. We don't do a good enough job of seperating the zealot from the true believer and preventing a hijacking of our faiths.

[heliochrome85]

my issue with fallwell and robertson is that they have both made disgusting claims against our fellow citizens. Fallwell--- gays caused 9/11. Robertson -- numerous attacks against muslims and gays. Why is it when Rev Wright made claims against the US and 9/11, everyone lost their mind, yet these two have had vaunted seats in our society and no one has batted an eye? They give christianity as much a black eye as WBC does.