Talk me out of Boxster or BMW M Roadster

[gwoods]

Hey gang,
I LOVE the XFSC almost too much. It is blindingly fast, fits the family and can get good gas mileage.

However, I have an itch for a manual transmission convertible. I am going to spend cash and less than $10,000. There are a surprising number of 1997-2000 Porsche Boxsters with around 100k miles and a handful of BMW M Roadsters with similar miles.

The BMW's are prone to have separation of the spot welds in the rear fame sub frame eventually the frame shears. There are 2 kits to keep it from happening and the cost of fixing the welds that have sheared. Budget for $1,000 to fix or prevent if you buy one and can't weld it yourself. I burn metal in nasty ugly welds so I would pay to have it done right.

The Boxster has a IMS bearing between the transmission and motor that can fail with no warning, often damaging the engine when it does. There is a $1,000 upgrade bearing that I can install.

My other issues,
1> I don't see any benefit to making modifications to the XFSC. The car is set up pretty well to keep the extra power from making it to the wheels. If every person with an XFR or XFSC bought the aftermarket fix for the transmission torque managment system the company making it would still not turn a profit. There just are not enough supercharged Jaguars to get good aftermarket support. Gearing and weight are about the only places speed could be found.

2> The XFSC is also fragile driving it nicely things break that didn't ever break in over 5 years and 127,000 miles on my 2007 G35 sedan.

3> I love racing, I took my XFSC to the drag strip once. When I had my G35 Sedan (13.6 @102 mph stockish) I was at the track 3 times a month. I have no stomach for working on or racing this Jaguar.

4> I have put 6300 miles on it in 4 months (trip to Vegas, 1 way from Denver) but still I am putting on the miles too fast. It is going to be off warranty by miles before July 14th, 2016 when it goes off by date at this rate. If I had a little manual transmission rag top to drive a couple days a week it would really help out keeping miles off the Jaguar. Either the Porsche or Boxster with the top down and the clutch to play with would not be a 'penalty' compared to the Jaguar although the Jaguar is nicer and would kill either of them at any track. There is something amazing about a 2 seat convert-stick that you can't get from any other ride no matter how much better.

5> If I'm in a Boxster or M Roadster for less than $6,000 its pretty much bottomed. I'm not in a rush and I have found a few in this price range that appear to be good deals to me. The M is low production and may become collectable at some point. I should be able to get my money back out of either car in 2-3 years and 15-20k miles if I am not in a hurry to sell and who is with their 4th car?

[Jesda]

I -refuse- to talk you out of such enjoyable cars.

Read up on Boxster intermediate shaft failures and find out which years are affected. Enjoy the ride.

[gwoods]

I have 4th paragraph, IMS Raby Engineering makes a upgrade for $1000 or a monitor for $389. I think the upgrade is the way to go. I found one in Cali with 102k miles new tires and clutch but low compression on #4. Sounded like collapsed lifter to me so I can fix it and change the plugs and IMS at the same time myself. Asking $2200?! for a 1998. Suppose I double my money in it with the IMS, plugs, hoses belts fluids valvecover gaskets little things like that that make a good car great I should be able to get my $4,000 back out of it at anytime.

If the low compression were a bad piston 2.5/2.7 engines are available for $2000-$3000 from the Porsche yards, and I have one on the otherside of the freeway from my work. That would also leave me with perhaps a good core that could be built to a 3.2/3.5L 100mm bore :-) Then swap back in the new big motor and hang onto the junkyard for a spare (I still have a spare transmission for my G35 in the garage).

[audtatious]

I agree with Top Gear concerning the Boxter....makes you gay

[gwoods]

because the G37 coupe is such a mans car right?

How about this little number?

[audtatious]

because the G37 coupe is such a mans car right?

How about this little number?

Top Gear has made no such manliness claims against the G/Skyline

[gwoods]

I think the real problem is Clarkson is such a giantoaf that he can't fit into one with the top up. He also hates Porsche funny listening to him and Hammond rattle on about it. http://www.topgear.com/uk/jeremy-clarks ... 2008-08-01

I don't need TopGear to tell me, my Vietnamese lady dry cleaner drives a G37 coupe, its a chick car. Sorry man not as chick as a Miata or VW Bug but still...

The Boxster is fantastic and a better deal then the BMW, I like the BMW M Roadster slightly more because of the potential for it to be collectable in 20-30 years. The motor in the BMW can be reasonably maintained without dropping it out of the car.

[Ace2cool]

So is it that you just want an expensive underpowered car? If you're just looking for a really fun roadster, get an S2000. Manly, revs to the moon, quick enough to keep you well entertained, and unbelievably fun.

[Bubba1]

So is it that you just want an expensive underpowered car? If you're just looking for a really fun roadster, get an S2000. Manly, revs to the moon, quick enough to keep you well entertained, and unbelievably fun.

Stole my thunder, Ace. I was thinking the S2K too. Very nice drivers, well made, reliable, easier on gas than your other choices + fun to drive.

Boxsters are very fun to drive, but not necessarily to own. The rule of thumb with Boxsters is the newer the better, and go for the S version instead of the base model (which are dirt cheap now). I've heard horror stories of expensive post warranty engine and power top problems, with the earlier Boxsters to the point I would avoid them. Z3s are ok if you can get beyond the styling. I'm surprised they went with a cheapie plastic rear window instead of glass (like the miata). They're nice enough to drive (quick, not fast), but I think there are better choices out there. The M is a much better car, but it will be painful to wallet when (not if) something breaks.

Two other sporty verts I would consider before the BMW or Porsche are the Corvette C5 and 350Z.

[audtatious]

I think the real problem is Clarkson is such a giantoaf that he can't fit into one with the top up. He also hates Porsche funny listening to him and Hammond rattle on about it. http://www.topgear.com/uk/jeremy-clarks ... 2008-08-01

I don't need TopGear to tell me, my Vietnamese lady dry cleaner drives a G37 coupe, its a chick car. Sorry man not as chick as a Miata or VW Bug but still...

The Boxster is fantastic and a better deal then the BMW, I like the BMW M Roadster slightly more because of the potential for it to be collectable in 20-30 years. The motor in the BMW can be reasonably maintained without dropping it out of the car.

Actually it was Hamster telling it to Clarkson I believe in some rerun episode I saw the other day

[gwoods]

I considered a Vette but you can't get into a newer then 1994 vert with a stick. Its a little on the large side for what I'm looking for. So is the Jaguar XK8 vert.

I am not interested at all in the 350z, daycare dad has a 350z vert and it has never looked right to me? Also not exotic compared to Porsche or BMW. Same deal for the Pontiac Solstice

I did look at S2000's, I hate Honda's so much... it seems like the used S2000's are all previous fanboi cars, with Greddy this and other brand that a giant powered by HONDA sticker across the top of the windsheild. None of them are unmolested and also affordable. I remember when the car came out it lacked torque big time and you had to really spin it up to get the Vtec yo. Someone made a supercharger for it and that fixed a lot of the issues one of the car magazines put it on their long term car.

ACE,
2001-2002 M Roadster ran 13.1's at 109 mph, 0-60 was 4.5-4.8 mph depending on the conditions of the test. Plenty of room up front for a supercharger too, there are video's on you tube of 400+ hp M Roadsters.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons ... ter-page-2

[MinisterofDOOM]

Okay. DON'T GET AN M ROADSTER.

Get an M Coupe.



SO HOT.

[gwoods]

back in 2002 when first married living in an apartment at Troost and 26th street in KC we had a 2001 Altima and a 1999 Corolla. The two men we kept hearing at night that lived across the quad had an M Coupe and a S2000. I can't make that up.

[Ace2cool]

I did look at S2000's, I hate Honda's so much... it seems like the used S2000's are all previous fanboi cars, with Greddy this and other brand that a giant powered by HONDA sticker across the top of the windsheild. None of them are unmolested and also affordable. I remember when the car came out it lacked torque big time and you had to really spin it up to get the Vtec yo. Someone made a supercharger for it and that fixed a lot of the issues one of the car magazines put it on their long term car.

You're coming into it closed minded though. You already carry a stigma against the brand. And yes, you really had to rev the AP1 into the limiter to get the power out, but they fixed that with the compression tweaks in the AP2. Granted, the AP2 only revved to 8k instead of 9k, but made more power at lower RPM's. Most of the GReddy stuff for the S2000 is legit hardware, BTW. Not just fanboi glitz. There's a reason the mod community snatched it up so quickly. And there may be 400 pony M's, but I've yet to see one pop a wheelie. Not to mention it's a pretty, well, .....car.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMSKi6yPuX0[/youtube]

[Bubba1]

[
Interesting that the C&D article you attached ranked the M convertible dead last in it's comparo, behind the Boxster S and Corvette. Id also go with an M Coupe before the Z M convertible but it obviously doesn't fit your vert requirement.

Another idea, something a good friend of mine did. How about a 1960's era Mustang convertible. My friend bought a 1969 GT Convertible with a 390 V8, 4 bbl carb, and 4 speed. True it doesn't handle/brake like a modern Porsche/Bimmer, but they can be improved for not a lot of money. The thrust and great V8 rumble are there, easy to fix, cheap parts, plus they never fail to draw admirers.

[gwoods]

Camaro or Stang verts are also a little big for me. I would consider a sunbeam Alpine but I would want the V8 Tiger version and that is $20,000k + outside my budget.

Yea I thought that was funny too ranking the M dead last. I'm not going to do anything until after I pay taxes might not be any car money left. That gives me plenty of time to kick tires at dealers and test drive.

Ace maybe your right I just can't see myself ever owning a Honda anything

[addicted4life]

I agree with Top Gear concerning the Boxter....makes you gay

Hahah I was just ping to make a reference to that

[davidoliva]

I would say go for the m roadster, its tons of fun going down corners with that little car. Also i believe there is better aftermarket support for the roadster iirc.

/edited for sp

[Ace2cool]

Ace maybe your right I just can't see myself ever owning a Honda anything

I said the same thing until I drove my buddy's AP1.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Who says S2000s can't make torque?

[Jesda]

I know two homosexualizers; one drives a Buick sedan and the other drives a Chrysler.

Hard to pin them down sometimes.
^^^^NOT A PLAY ON WORDS!^^^^


Meanwhile, I work with an ex-military brute who is as straight as a board. He drives a yellow Mini Cooper S.

[davidoliva]

I would own a bmw over a honda any day, just sayin'.

[AZ89two4Tsx]

back in 2002 when first married living in an apartment at Troost and 26th street in KC we had a 2001 Altima and a 1999 Corolla. The two men we kept hearing at night that lived across the quad had an M Coupe and a S2000. I can't make that up.

Haha, I might be the only one that gets that, but that's funny. I lived in KC.

How were they not stolen?

[Rex]

I like the M Roadster, but would look for a non-fanboi S200 or a Chrysler Crossfire.

A friend has had the following convertibles over the past 10 years
Miata
Boxster
Solstice
Crossfire
SSR

He says the hands down winner is the Crossfire. It's the only one he didn't sell. It was lost in a head on crash. He replaced it with a 370Z, due to his airbag not deploying in a head on crash ... though the empty passenger side on did.

[Bubba1]

I like the M Roadster, but would look for a non-fanboi S200 or a Crossfire.

A friend has had the following convertibles over the past 10 years
Miata
Boxster
Solstice
Crossfire
SSR

He says the hands down winner is the Crossfire. It's the only one he didn't sell. It was lost in a head on crash. He replaced it with a 370Z, due to his airbag not deploying in a head on crash ... though the empty passenger side on did.

I had a co-worker who was formerly QA supervisor at GM's Wilmington assembly plant --- then home of the Pontiac Solstice. After hearing the horror stories about the shoddy work GM told him to ignore just to keep the line running, I would never buy one.

Another idea is one that I suggested to Wes in his advice thread. How about the
Cadillac Allante. It's a convertible, inexpensive, pininfarina styling, V8, and sorta considered upscale. the Bundy Bounce is optional.

[RicerX]

I am a big fan of the S2000. Very excited to see it return (it's on the docket for the Tokyo Motor Show next year - will return as a 2014 model.) For a convertible, the S2000 is my pick, hands down. If you have a complex about torque, drop an LS V8 into it. Problem solved.

Solstices are buckets of garbage (first hand experience - glad my Mom only leased hers. We gave it back with only 13,000 of the 36,000 miles allotted - she opted to drive her Isuzu Trooper over that car most days because even with its 100,000 miles on the odometer, she found it more reliable than the Solstice). I'm speaking for the base and not the GXP, however. I have heard that the engine issues we had (camshaft bearings going bad at 8,000 miles) were not present in the turbo models.

My friend next door has a Z4. Loves it. Relatively cheap on the used market.

I personally love the 370 Roadsters, but I see too many white haired ladies in them (just like the 350 roadsters). Plus the 370 roadsters are insanely expensive. You can nearly get into a used GT-R for what they cost new now.

Honestly, it pains me to say this, but the Miata is probably one of the best bang for the buck convertibles out there. Resale value is good and they're very reliable. Easy to find one in MT and easy to find one that hasn't been beaten on.

[gwoods]

My Grandpa collected Cadillac's and had one for every year ending in 8 starting with 1908. He had a 1988 Allante that I drove when I was not old enough to be driving it was cool for the time but if I wanted anything that big late 60's Camaro or Mustang vert would be a cooler choice. For the same money a BMW or Boxster will run circles around the Caddy.

Xenon Miata's are awesome cars more of them racing on any weekend then any other make/model. I'm too big to be driving a Miata.

[Bubba1]

My Grandpa collected Cadillac's and had one for every year ending in 8 starting with 1908. He had a 1988 Allante that I drove when I was not old enough to be driving it was cool for the time but if I wanted anything that big late 60's Camaro or Mustang vert would be a cooler choice. For the same money a BMW or Boxster will run circles around the Caddy.

Xenon Miata's are awesome cars more of them racing on any weekend then any other make/model. I'm too big to be driving a Miata.

The only other later model sporty 'vert I can think of with the "pedigree" you seek is an Audi TT Quattro. the 1st generation 225 hp quattros, which do have some spring to their step, are pretty darn nice, and in your price range.

I've driven several TT's. They'll surprise you how competent they are.

[gwoods]

My aunt has one it is nice but I can't look at without seeing a new VW beetle. Did you see the Car & Driver test with one vs the G37 IPL vs the "1 series M coupe"(BMW requires you say it that way)? It did 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 12.1 @113 ! yikes I would drive that one.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons ... rison-test

[PapaSmurf2k3]

It may just be me, but I am entirely not impressed with the 350 and 370's convertible tops. The cars look god awful with them up, and we've seen some horror stories on here of 350s with poor top longevity (and of course, Nissan not wanting to fix them).