Talk me out of Boxster or BMW M Roadster

[Bubba1]

My aunt has one it is nice but I can't look at without seeing a new VW beetle. Did you see the Car & Driver test with one vs the G37 IPL vs the "1 series M coupe"(BMW requires you say it that way)? It did 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 12.1 @113 ! yikes I would drive that one.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons ... rison-test

Yep, the RS is a beast, very quick. I've been patiently waiting to get a student with one.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Despite my strong dislike for the Golf it's based on, I'm pretty fond of the TT. Like the Miata, it's a girly-car I could happily drive in pink-on-pink without sparing a thought for my masculinity, because I'd be having too damn much fun to care. Especially in an S or RS model.

"1 series M coupe"(BMW requires you say it that way)

Not so much that, as it is this:

THIS is an M1


Which means this can't be:


So instead it's a 1 Series M. I tend to just call it a 1M.

[alphapig]

I quite liked the last gen Boxter.

But it looks very dated compared to the new model:



It looks like a Lotus Elise and a Toyota MR2 Spyder made passionate cross-cultural love

[MinisterofDOOM]

All Porsches look perpetually dated to me. I've never been a fan of traditional Porsche styling anyway, but there's just something about it that ages FAST. They're all ugly cars. Some more or less than others. I would NEVER buy a Porsche for the styling. I'd buy it for the car. Of course, there are a couple I would NOT buy because of the styling (like the monstrously, abominably, brainshatteringly ugly Carrera GT--and their non sportscars).

The rear of the new Boxster looks like a bad Chrysler design.

[elwesso]

I just got an 07 M coupe.. The comparison between the boxster and the M roadster/coupe is that the boxster is overall a more poised driving car, but the M is more fun to drive.. One analogy i heard was the boxster is like listening to mozart in a studio-type sound booth, and the M coupe is like standing in front of a speaker at a rock concert. Different strokes for different folks.

The M will arguably be easier and cheaper to maintain too. I think the M coupe looks a lot less of a chick car than the boxster...

This is a picture of mine.. 07 with 49k miles, 26k. MINT condition.

[elwesso]

Also, if you're going Z3 you want an 01 or 02 with the S54 engine.

[Jesda]

Wes: NICE Z4!!!!

The rear of the new Boxster looks like a bad Chrysler design.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. Though the old Boxster may have been too cute for some, the new Boxster looks a bit cold and clinical.

[Bubba1]

What the new Boxster lacks in looks at the rear is made up for it's improved prowess. But if I were looking at lower end Porsches, I'd consider spending a few thousand more and check out a Cayman S. Though they are a bit above Gwood's stated range.

[gwoods]

Man the Z4M sure looks better then the Z3 M in a coupe. That is sharp!

[MinisterofDOOM]

Z4 coupe is definitely sexy, but I LOVE the Z3 coupe's looks. But I've always had a thing for shooting brakes and wagons.

Nice color choice, Wes. The black hides the Bangle in the doors nicely.

[elwesso]

See now what my job to do is to convince gwoods to buy a Z4 M roadster, just like he was trying to convince me to get a Ferrari 348 or a 308 GTS..

The Z4 M also has a MUCH better interior, definitely a lot more liveable and up-to-date. Some of the die-hards really like the old school feel with the analog VDO gauges.. The interior feels and looks very 80's, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.. Most of the Z3 M guys clown on the Z4 M guys, even though the Z4 M is faster (or close in the 01-02), better looking, and less problematic. It's kind of like how SR guys clown on CA guys and vice-versa.. They're different cars for different kinds of people...

If gwoods is driving a Jag XF, he could afford a Z4 M if he wanted to. Now the goal is to convince him of such.

Let me give you the cliffs notes on why I chose the Z4 M over other cars I drove... I am used to driving luxury sedans, so this was the first time that my size (6'1 and skinny) was an issue...

2006 911 Carrera- No leg room, interior didn't seem very nice for how much the car cost new, performance wasn't quite there. For as much as they are to maintain, and how expensive parts are, I fail to see why people like these things so much other than the looks. Very similar performance to a Z with the PITA factor of a porsche... The one I looked at had 55k, dealer was asking 29k.

2001 911 Turbo- Again, no leg room. Interior was even more dated (didn't even have a glovebox).. Was a BLAST to drive though, this would definitely be worth the extra effort in maintenance.... I decided i couldn't justify spending 38k on a 12 year old car with 50k miles, even though it was quite the machine. The real bummer about the 996 is I don't think I could ever own one because of the leg room issue.

2011 370Z touring- Leg room was good, but I had no headroom. I liked the car overall, the interior still felt cheap but reasonable considering it's price. The RevUp engine was really cool, I loved that feature. Overall a great driving car, but there was no way in hell I could fit in that car with a helmet, and that's a serious problem. I passed on it because the dealer wanted 34k for a 2011 model, I offered them 32k and they didn't bite.. I failed to understand why I would pay 34k for that car when '10 models can be had for 28k with under 25k miles on CPO.

2007 BMW M5- I know this isn't really in the same genre as the others, but I drove this car just because it was close and if I liked it I'd consider it. That car was a cool car, but it was so packed full of technology that i felt like it really took away from the driving experience... You had a heads up display, nav screen, i-drive, electronic this, power that........ On paper, it's a fanstastic performance car but I could tell I wouldn't enjoy driving it that much because of that. I don't really like technology so much in a "driver's car", and if there is technology i like it to be easily shut off and non-obtrusive.

[gwoods]

While I could afford a Z4M this is a 4th car for me so I am going to stick to my budget of under 10k. No non-salvage Z4M's anywhere near that amount. Appreciate the turn about did you drive any Ferrari's after all my taunting?

[elwesso]

Bummer that a regular Z4 is just barely out of your price range. 03 Z4 can be had for 12-15k. I'd take a 3.0 Z4 over a z3.

[gwoods]

would you take a Z4 3.0 roadster over a Z3 M roadster?

edited to add, for me once its not an M anymore the Boxster gets a whole lot more attractive.

I think I rank like this

#1> M Roadster
#2> Boxster
#3> Z3/4
#4> 60's Camaro/Mustang vert
.
.
.
.
#>99 City bus
#100> walking
#101> Being chased by stray pit bulls
#102> Honda S2000 with a Giant POWERED BY HONDA sticker across the windsheild and a coffee can exhaust pipe.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I can only assume #5 is an uber clean S2000.

[gwoods]

This is how they ALL look to me + a giant wing + the POWERED BY HONDA windsheild topper

[gwoods]

[mechanicalmoron]

It may just be me, but I am entirely not impressed with the 350 and 370's convertible tops. The cars look god awful with them up, and we've seen some horror stories on here of 350s with poor top longevity (and of course, Nissan not wanting to fix them).

Totally agree.

Chick car as some in this thread may consider it, miata's with retractable hardtops are the sex. And though I've never driven one, given their size and general attitude, I'd expect them to be a blast.

And if you don't want a hardtop convertable, well, any miata is the sex.

[Ace2cool]

Your stigma about Honda keeps coming back. Here, have some clean S2000's.




Spoon hardtop





That last one is about the same aggressiveness as an M4.

[Jesda]

My biggest concern with the Z3 is rear subframe damage. That would nudge me into a Z4.





[Meanwhile, and on an entirely different note, I've missed having a large three-row SUV, especially since selling my Ram.]

[elwesso]

The Z3 is overall an outdated chassis, period. Regardless if that fact
hinders it's performance or not, it's still outdated, even for it's time.

IF we're talking a non-S54 M coupe, I would take a standard Z4 all day
long over a Z3 M coupe. If you got the S54 Z3 M coupe (01-02), then I'd
take the Z3 M. The problem here is the 01-02 Z3 M's are pretty sought
after so finding one would probably net you the same price as a clean Z4.
The difference between the early Z3 M and the ones with the S54 engine was
over 100HP (228 vs 333HP)

The Z4 3.0si had 265HP, the regular 3.0i had 231HP. So the bottom line is
the earlier Z3 M's had similar performance to the standard Z4's, and the
later Z3 M's have similar performance to the Z4 M's. What sets me over
the edge is that the Z4 3.0si is a better platform to begin with, has a
nicer interior, has better looks, and their newer so you have a better
chance of finding a cherry one for a good price.

I do agree with gwoods though, the S2k has never done it for me. I think
honda guys get a chubby just because honda actually made a proper RWD
sports car, even though I don't think the performance is that impressive.
So for a honda guy, it's the best decision if you have to stay within the
brand. In a straight line a S2K is not that much faster than my 20 year
old Q45 with 205k miles (low to mid 14's)..

A miata would be cool though, I saw one on a dealers lot and thought it
looked really cool.. Who cares if it's a "chick car", the miata is cool.
It's not like you're driving a VW bug with flower wheels and tail light
covers.... Anyone who doesn't like the miata purely because it's a chick
car is probably driving one of those giant diesel pickup trucks with huge
mud tires (on the street) to show that his gentleman's sausage is bigger
than everyone elses...

[Bubba1]

The Z3 is overall an outdated chassis, period. Regardless if that fact
hinders it's performance or not, it's still outdated, even for it's time.

IF we're talking a non-S54 M coupe, I would take a standard Z4 all day
long over a Z3 M coupe. If you got the S54 Z3 M coupe (01-02), then I'd
take the Z3 M. The problem here is the 01-02 Z3 M's are pretty sought
after so finding one would probably net you the same price as a clean Z4.
The difference between the early Z3 M and the ones with the S54 engine was
over 100HP (228 vs 333HP)

The Z4 3.0si had 265HP, the regular 3.0i had 231HP. So the bottom line is
the earlier Z3 M's had similar performance to the standard Z4's, and the
later Z3 M's have similar performance to the Z4 M's. What sets me over
the edge is that the Z4 3.0si is a better platform to begin with, has a
nicer interior, has better looks, and their newer so you have a better
chance of finding a cherry one for a good price.

I do agree with gwoods though, the S2k has never done it for me. I think
honda guys get a chubby just because honda actually made a proper RWD
sports car, even though I don't think the performance is that impressive.
So for a honda guy, it's the best decision if you have to stay within the
brand. In a straight line a S2K is not that much faster than my 20 year
old Q45 with 205k miles (low to mid 14's)..

Wes, you and gwoods have to drive an S2K a the race track (one with turns)to understand how special they are, and Honda actually did get it right with that car. Not only are they incredibly nimble, the car literally comes to life above 4K rpm, which is not something you typically do driving on the street. It's a turnkey road racer, not a drag strip car. It's like bashing a Q45 for not being a nimble autocrosser. That' not what its designed for.

I seriously looked at buying a new S2000 before deciding on my 350Z.

[gwoods]

My hatred of the S2000 is not based in logic so your arguments while probably valid would never lead to me deciding I love the S2000. I hate Hon DUH it embodies everything retarded about some 16 year old punk who thinks changing the air filter on his automatic Civic for a cone style foam filter he bought off Ebay for $8 (he will say he changed is intake) is going to give his car 40 more hp. I would not drive a Honda if it were free.

Most of the Honda drivers I notice are dorks with a slammed car covered in stickers with giant wing, their hat on sideways bumping gangster rap with the windows down on Acura rims. I HATE HONDA

[mechanicalmoron]

My hatred of the S2000 is not based in logic so your arguments while probably valid would never lead to me deciding I love the S2000. I hate Hon DUH it embodies everything retarded about some 16 year old punk who thinks changing the air filter on his automatic Civic for a cone style foam filter he bought off Ebay for $8 (he will say he changed is intake) is going to give his car 40 more hp. I would not drive a Honda if it were free.

Most of the Honda drivers I notice are dorks with a slammed car covered in stickers with giant wing, their hat on sideways bumping gangster rap with the windows down on Acura rims. I HATE HONDA

Aww, that's not even fair....

Honda makes solid stuff, that works well and lasts for ever. As far as fwd goes, they have good jumping-in prices, on upgradable motors.... there's tards who put fake ferarri body kits one EVERY brand, doesn't mean anything bad about the brand.

When I see someone like that with a car, I don't hate the brand, I simply want to rescue that individual vehicle.... Maybe you'd hate me, I have a pos 240, and the only mods on it are removing broken emissions stuff, a bunch of plastic crap and resonators, and an ebay knock off CAI that came in the trunk when I bought it. I also have unfinished bondo on the rust holes from the wing, need more sanding and another coat... and one's not sanded at all.

But yeah, miata. Super sexy, AND you can have the best of a convertable, and the best of a coupe, without having a removable hardtop or anything. And it just looks so good compared to a "ragtop".

[Jesda]

I would blissfully drive an S2000 but the Miata (all three generations) is a bit friendlier on a day to day basis especially since I'm not into motorsports. If I was, however, I might lean toward the S2000.

[gwoods]

Nah a 240 is different cause its a Nissan and no matter how fan boi you might get with it I will still like you and your car. I see a few 240's cruising around with ridiculous camber and a little wings, just rolling projects that will never be finished. I think hmm that guy is probably going to grow up someday and buy a nice G37 or whatever Q name Infiniti is throwing around today. But never Honda die Honda die. Man I am ranty today.

[Bubba1]

My hatred of the S2000 is not based in logic so your arguments while probably valid would never lead to me deciding I love the S2000. I hate Hon DUH it embodies everything retarded about some 16 year old punk who thinks changing the air filter on his automatic Civic for a cone style foam filter he bought off Ebay for $8 (he will say he changed is intake) is going to give his car 40 more hp. I would not drive a Honda if it were free.

Most of the Honda drivers I notice are dorks with a slammed car covered in stickers with giant wing, their hat on sideways bumping gangster rap with the windows down on Acura rims. I HATE HONDA

You're certainly entitled to your hatred, but I find it unusual coming from such a knowledgeable enthusiast. I'm curious why your hatred doesn't include BMW as their "stereotypical" owners can be downright obnoxious. (present company excluded, Wes) I'm sure you've heard the joke, what's the difference between a BMW owner and a porcupine? With a porcupine, the pr!cks are on the outside.

[gwoods]

I know its weird and I wasn't even molested by a Honda as a child? Porsche too although most of the cactus needles have switched to Audi if you believe everything Clarkson tells you. A vendor stopped in the other day and was asking who drove the BMW and I joked what kind of Ahole do you think I am? And yet here I am BMW shopping maybe I am THAT guy.

[elwesso]

My hatred of the S2000 is not based in logic so your arguments while probably valid would never lead to me deciding I love the S2000. I hate Hon DUH it embodies everything retarded about some 16 year old punk who thinks changing the air filter on his automatic Civic for a cone style foam filter he bought off Ebay for $8 (he will say he changed is intake) is going to give his car 40 more hp. I would not drive a Honda if it were free.

Most of the Honda drivers I notice are dorks with a slammed car covered in stickers with giant wing, their hat on sideways bumping gangster rap with the windows down on Acura rims. I HATE HONDA

You're certainly entitled to your hatred, but I find it unusual coming from such a knowledgeable enthusiast. I'm curious why your hatred doesn't include BMW as their "stereotypical" owners can be downright obnoxious. (present company excluded, Wes) I'm sure you've heard the joke, what's the difference between a BMW owner and a porcupine? With a porcupine, the pr!cks are on the outside.

Honestly Joel this really depends on what car it is.. I never ONCE considered an M3 simply because of who typically drives an M3, I am not one of those people. Came to find out that all CTS-V guys are douchebags, so I ditched it...

However, a lot of the old school bimmer guys (like E28/E30/E36) are pretty legit, as they've gotta know their stuff to keep ancient german cars on the road...

Just because you own a certain car doesn't mean your that type of owner...... I always told people when I had a CTS-V "I own a CTS-V but I'm not a CTS-V owner"

[Jesda]

That's exactly why I've avoided interacting with CTS-V owners on the Caddy forum. They're like bikers but fatter and wealthier.


E34 and E28 owners are an interesting crowd. They put the time and energy into preserving their cars but have no qualms about putting 50k a year on them. Nice group of people.

E46 guys (back when the E46 was new) were always a bit "glam," not gay but a bit metro with their obsessions with hair and fashion.