T3/T04E Questions

[Sil240]

I've got a couple so bear with me.

1- Blaast Performance- has anyone heard or dealt with them???

2- Allied-Signal- does anyone know ANYthing about them - I do know they are a subsidiary of Honeywell, who owns garrett. - Now they make chemicals and fabrics - They MAY make truck turbos - Not very popular, could not find ANY info on them

3- The T3/T04E 60 trim is available in .48 A/R and .63 A/R - I have a rb20 looking for 350-400whp (max) - Looking for max response, but don't want the turbo to die out on top.I was thinking the .63 A/R

4- If someone can help me out with the compressor map, that'd be great. http://www.blaastperformance.c...4e-60

[uber95]

Allied Signal = Garrett A guy who's local to me has been my turbo guy since I met him in 1989. He is a wizard when it comes to matching turbos to your application as well as being able to machine custom units and make hybrids. Very very knowledgeable and reputable.http://www.evergreenturbo.com His name is Charlie. Great guy. Explain to him what you want and he can for sure help out.

[Sil240]

Yeah I actually called him and talked to him like 2-3 weeks ago.I should call him again, I forgot what he said price wise. lol.

thanks

[mello88]

That compressor map is kind of a joke... Should be lbs/min or m^3/s across the bottom not HP. They probably just converted lbs/min to hp by multiplying by 10, but who knows. I had a decent page bookmarked that had quite a few maps but it seems like it's down today, so here's the google cache of it: http://72.14.253.104/search?q=.../maps

I went with a T3/TO4E 57 trim 60 A/R with stage 2 turbine and .48 AR turbine housing on my RB20. Well, I believe it's an .48 AR based on the size -- the housing has conflicting PNs on it?? Anyway I have yet to get the motor installed and tuned but according the compressor map data it should be decently suited for 12-18psi boost.



I have a "turbo calculator" I put together in Excel that may help you. You input your displacement & desired boost at (any) given RPM intervals and it computes the cfm, LBs/min, PR, m^3/s and a hp estimate with corrections for altitude, ev% density, injector size estimator, etc. Then you can plot the flow and PR points on just about any compressor map (regardless of x-axis) and get an idea of how efficient that compressor will be for your setup. It's probably not extremely accurate but it should get you an informed guess (and it saves a ton of time comparing maps here and there).

Give me your email address and I'll send you a copy.
Modified by mello88 at 3:12 PM 4/2/2007

[Sil240]

Cool thanks

[email protected]

Yeah the motors in the car already.Are you using the HKS cast Manifold??Your using the Skyline X-member right??

[mello88]

Sent you an email with some info on the calculator.

Yeah that is the HKS cast mani, and I'll be using the R32 x-member with Nismo mounts. I sure hope the comp housing clears the shock tower .... If not I have some other junk Chinese manifolds laying around I can play with, but from what I've read it'll work with my setup.

[l0nestar]

Any update on this? I'm considering a JGY top-mount manifold and a T3/T04e if I have to go top-mount. And possibly a JGY IM. They look pretty slick and cost around $220. I know, I know it is probably a cheap casing, but I'm still thinking of trying it out.

[l0nestar]

2- Allied-Signal- does anyone know ANYthing about them - I do know they are a subsidiary of Honeywell, who owns garrett.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_Signal <-- WikiPedia, the first place I check

Also, I'm not very sure about 'blaastperformance.com' Their site hardly worked. I received many errors while perusing it. They may be great people, just their website has 'issues'. :-\

[Sil240]

Mello- Thanks a lo bro.Haven't taken a look at it yet though.

lonestar-I don't know for sure, but the JGY manifold looks AWFUL like the SS AUTOCRAP.Remember JGY is a shop, I highly doubt they MAKE any of their own products.That manifold probably comes from SS AutoCrap or whoever else sells them.

Just be aware of that.

If your running the Skyline Xmember, jump on that HKS Manifold. It's NOT going to crack, plus it'll fit too.

The blaastperformace website works for me????

I saw that infor on Allied Signal, but I can't find any record of turbos.A couple of turbo shops have allied signal pictures on cards, websites.But I have yet to find any Hard Info on Allied Signal Turbos.

[l0nestar]

Sil240,I know JGY is a shop, but it is different from the SS Autocrap manifolds. They look similar but if you see pics of both next to each other, they are in fact different. Plus if the welds are crap I will send it back =P

Where can I get an HKS manifold? How much do they run? I remember seeing a used one for like $500. I cannot justify a cost like that :-\

If it comes down to it, I know how to weld and can re-weld the one from JGY if needed. I did not want to build a custom exhaust manifold. So I am thinking I will give the JGY a try and see what happens, unless I can get an HKS unit for a reasonable price.

BTW, I am using the R33 X-member and isolators. Provided my RPS MAX clutch gets here by Friday I am planning on installing everything and building mounts and hopefully have my motor installed Saturday.

[uber95]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_Signal <-- WikiPedia, the first place I check

. :-\

Remeber when using Wikipedia, it's maintained by "normal people" that don't always have all the right facts. Talk to a reputable turbo shop that's been around awhile, they'll tell you who Allied-Signal is. I've been hanging out at Charlie's shop for years (we've been friends for 13+ years) and know first hand that Allied-Signal is stamped all over some Garrett parts.

[l0nestar]

uber95,

Charlie == Evergreen Turbos?

And I know all about Wikipedia.

[Sil240]

$500 for a good cast manifold is not too much.Think about it.It'll never crack, Its HKS so you know its good quality. Plus you wont loose your wastegate like the guy on FA did.Take a look at the link I posted above.

$220 for a POS manifold is, especially when you can find it on ebay for $100.

I don't know for sure, but I can almost gaurantee that its Chinese/Taiwanese BS.Just looked at their website, and the manifold is X02 Chinese bs. X02 probably buys it from the same place in Taiwan.

Plus what wastegate are you going to run??I hope not one of those SSautocrap ones too.($80)

Because I just realized how much a REAL wastegate costs. They mentioned something about those POS wastegates also.

I don't know about those, never tried them.

[l0nestar]

I dunno. $500 just seems like a lot to spend on a cast exhaust manifold, a genuine Garret T3/T04e is around $600 and that seems reasonable.

I was planning on a genuine TiAL 38mm ($200 or so) or another JDM equivalent.

Are you also suggesting that the new JGY intake manifold is 'Chinese / Taiwanese junk' as well? I'm asking not to call you out, but because I almost ordered the IM today.

[Sil240]

$500 for a solid manifold that's not going anywhere is pretty good.I wish I had the Skyline X-member so I could run it.

I never knew Wastegates were soo much $$ damn. there's some waaay above $200.

I'm not Suggesting its Chinese/Taiwanese crap.I'm telling you.Look at they're website.It says in plain engrish, XO2 Rb25det manifold.

http://stores.ebay.com/XO2RACING

Another Greddy Knock off ITM- (Cheaper if your gonna get it)http://cgi.ebay.com/Inlet-Mani...wItem

[l0nestar]

Oh snap!It did not say that about a week ago when I first saw it. shoot. And it mysteriously increased $100 since then... Well, forget about that then XO2 is another of the 'GReddy Style' bad sand cast manifolds. Another dream gone awry. Thanks for the info though.

[240sxautox]

mello88 could you e-mail me a copy of that exel doc?

[email protected]

thanks

[mello88]

Sent the calculator to you and the other dude who emailed me last night

[l0nestar]

File received. Thanks!

[jdmser]

This http://www.turbofast.com.au/turbomap.html helped me pick my turbo. I got it from Blaast. I ended up going with the T3/T04e 50 trim 70 ar compressor and 63 ar exhaust. Should have it up and running again in a few weeks after the head comes back from port and polish. Blaast shipped pretty fast but, they use UPS who tries to stick you with a customs charge when there is no customs fee for an item like this.

[Sil240]

Hey,ThanksHow much was that turbo in all??

Did you get the 360 thrust bearing option?

What about a Turbonetics T3 Super 60??Would that die out up top?I know that I would probably only hit like 300 but that's A ok.This guy has one for a good price just rebuilt, with paperwork. (unlike every other person in selling a "rebuilt" turbo lol)

[Yellow4g63]

I dunno. $500 just seems like a lot to spend on a cast exhaust manifold, a genuine Garret T3/T04e is around $600 and that seems reasonable.

I was planning on a genuine TiAL 38mm ($200 or so) or another JDM equivalent.

Are you also suggesting that the new JGY intake manifold is 'Chinese / Taiwanese junk' as well? I'm asking not to call you out, but because I almost ordered the IM today.

Man you really bought the wrong motor to star cheeping out on ****. If you think $500 is alot sell your car now and buy a gas sipper .

[jdmser]

I didn't go for the 360 thrust. I want to say that it was $570 shipped. That's for the watercooled one and an internal wastegate(which he threw in for free). When I first talk to him we had agreed on Canadian post witch was going to be around $50 bucks. I went on vacation for a weak and when I got back the turbo was there. So was an email saying I owed him $20 extra because he decided Canadian post would take to long so he sent it UPS. Not a big deal but, kind of a weird way to do buisness. The one thing I will say is that I emailed my enquirey to him with my phone number and he called me in less than half an hour on a Sunday. As for the 60, I ran the numbers for it and it just didn't turn out that well.

[Sil240]

Oh yeah nice!!

Yeah I learned how to read a comp map and calculate it, and it wouldn't have been too good. But I guess better than stock though.

I just need a turbo not to expensive to get my car running.

I found a T3/T04B .48A/R stg III 50trim I ran the calculations and checked out the map.At 1 bar I would hit full boost at 3,000 it would carry out till about 6,000 and die out from there.

Mello- you are the manI finally used that excel file.The HP is Whp?? Because it seemed 14.4% off

It's not the perfect turbo, but it looks like its in good shape from the pics and its not too expensive.Plus I can rebuild it and upgrade it to the TO4E later on.

What do you guys think about it?

[mello88]

Hey man thanks. The CHP is crank hp estimate calculated as (10 * lbs/min flow), this is an estimate I found referenced in a few places online, IDK how accurate it really is (seems a little conservative like you say). Then the CHP is knocked down by 15 to 20% for driveline loss, but this is just a guess, I don't know what kind of loss the trans, driveshaft, diff and hub bearings present for us. The constant variables for the CHP and WHP estimates are at the top, go ahead and change them if you like LMK what you think is more accurate.

Also I was curious how you determined you would have full boost at 3000 rpm? Did you use some formula for this or just an estimate or what.. Can you link to or embed the T04B 50 trim compressor map? My favorite comp map site is down

[Sil240]

If I remember correctly from school.RWD was 15-18% driveline loss.FWD was like 12-15%AWD was like 18-20%But those are generalizations.

I figured 15% since I have the Aluminum Flywheel and Driveshaft. But my heavy @ss 18' buddy clubs probably counteract that. lol

Here is where I got the Comp map from.T04B S trim

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/compmaps.htm

I dunno if I'm right but here are my Corrected Mass Flow #'s

2,000 rpm - 11.83 lb/min (Beyond the surge line)3,300 rpm - 19.53 lb/min4,500 rom - 26.63 lb/min5,500 rpm - 32.54 lb/min6,500 rpm - 38.46 lb/min (Outside of the 50% line- off the map)7,000 rpm - 41.42 lb/min (Outside of the 50% line- Wayyy off the map)**Edit 7,000 rpm not 7,500 **

I did it with 1 bar - 14.7psi

Oh you know what!!!When i was looking at the "Base CHP" I was thnking of Stock Factory CHP of 215.
Modified by Sil240 at 7:18 PM 4/6/2007

[mello88]

Yep ignore the base #s those are without any boost.

Thanks for the link to the comp map. IMO the TO4B-S trim compressor looks a little too small for 1 bar. Compare it to the TO4E 57 trim with the same PR and I think you'll see what I mean. The 57 trim looks like it's more efficient all the way across the board and especially on the top end. Even to 7500rpm/35lbs the 57 doesn't cross the 60% line. I think the 57 would give a cooler charge than the TO4BS at that boost level, and therefore make more power.

If I didn't get such a good deal on my 60 trim I would have picked up a 57.

[Sil240]

Yeah the only reason I'm getting that t3/t04b is because this guy is selling one for a pretty good price. It's not the turbo that I want.It's the turbo that will get my car going till I have $$ to up grade it or get the one that I want.Plus it fits my wastegate that I bought.Because I'm still running the stock type manifold.

Yeah that T04E 57 trim looks waaayyyy better than that B housing. Yeah I mapped the 60 trim and at 3,300 rpm I'd be just outside of the Surge line.

The perfect turbo would be the GT3071R2,000 is just outside the surge line, and It'll be good all the way till 7,500

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/...R.htm

[mello88]

For sure! When I save up enough to pick up a new BB turbo it's going to be the GT3071R It looks like an excellent match for our engine.

About how much are you buying the TO4BS for?

[Sil240]

Yeah that turbo is PERFECT for the RB20.The GT30R is the GT3076R or GT3037 right???Kinda confusing:http://www.atpturbo.com/Mercha...e=GRT

$300 shipped The guy said he made 320whp on a 1.8T