Suspension is killing me.

[artemny]

02 Pathfinder LE

Hey folks.

I'm sure most of you guys have the same problem, so let's try to figure it out together.
Tried to look for the answer everywhere online. Visited one mechanic, then another mechanic then even a dealership (!!!) they are all just smiling at me saying we can't do $#!% about it.

SUSPENSION!!! SUSPENSION!!! SUSPENSION!!!

Since day one of owning this car (for two years) I have this problem with a rear end.
Whenever the car hits a wide hole or a deepening with both wheels simultaneously it feels like there's no springs and shocks. The whole rear end goes down so fast and so low that it hits the bottom of the car really really hard. That's happening when the car is empty. Let me put 2 people in the back, it feels like it's gonna fall apart when I hit that hole. It's not just annoying. It's scary! Specially when you'r doing 65-70 on a highway.

I replaced the whole suspension a few days ago. Rear springs, rear shocks, front struts, front springs. On a good or rough road the car rides like new now. Takes corners like a bmw. (I put all aftermarket parts).

But the problem with a rear end flopping on it's a$$ is not fixed. I figure everyone has the same problem.

3 shops including dealership said it's unfixable. Well I don't believe in it. ANYTHING can be fixed, you just got to know how to do it.

The first and only thought in my mind is a suspension lift kit. Though it will help me off road (it spends 50% of time on the beach) I still not very excited about lifting it, cause on road capabilities will go down (handling, mpg etc).

So what you guys think? Anyone else has the same problem? If so, how did you fix it? At this point I will do ANYTHING to fix it.

[yngw13]

usually NEW rear springs would fix that...
I had that problem ...put in some MOOG springs and wasnt hitting my recently installed exhaust pipes anymore...and Im still using the original shocks (monroe?)

What kinds of springs did you say you installed?

[So Many Roads]

I have the same issue. Rear end bottoms out all the time. Replaced the shocks (w/ OEM) at 135K and it didn't solve the problem. New springs are next, I'm surprised they did not fix your problem.

OEM springs are $140 each, anyone have any experience with aftermarket springs that are cheaper?

[artemny]

usually NEW rear springs would fix that...
I had that problem ...put in some MOOG springs and wasnt hitting my recently installed exhaust pipes anymore...and Im still using the original shocks (monroe?)

What kinds of springs did you say you installed?

MOOG
Didn't help.

[artemny]

I have the same issue. Rear end bottoms out all the time. Replaced the shocks (w/ OEM) at 135K and it didn't solve the problem. New springs are next, I'm surprised they did not fix your problem.

OEM springs are $140 each, anyone have any experience with aftermarket springs that are cheaper?

I tried to check out the OEM ones. Dealers wanted over $400 just for the rear springs.
Then I talked to people everyone keeps saying springs on OEM R50 just suck! That the worst aftermarket springs will do better than OEM Nissan springs.
So I spend $70 for a pair from Moog. Happy with overall quality. But this didn't fix MY problem.
I guess it's a general vehicle construction problem, not just springs/shocks.

[yngw13]

Well I still have to do my Upper trailing arms...its still somewhat clunky...the bushings are blown

[artemny]

Well I still have to do my Upper trailing arms...its still somewhat clunky...the bushings are blown

Well someone told me about them. But I didn't pay an attention.
I'm not very mechanically skilled. All I can do is change oil and tire and battery and brakes and stereo... you know... simple things...

How can these arms affect the ride? My mechanic said there's no bents or cracks in them. So how can they affect the ride?

[yngw13]

well it seems you dont need to fix then...but it has a unstable recoil on the way up ///after humps and what not...but doesnt affect regular turns /cornering....

another might be the stabilizer bar? aka sway bar....Im not sure about the troubleshooting on those ...

[abnrjd]

Hey there are bump stops inside the rear coil springs did u check those? also check your upper and lower control arms on the rear. I good indication is the dreaded "death sway" I've done some repairs to my vehicle on this matter and I've learned simple fixes to the problems.

[miamiheat3332]

You need to replace both the upper trailing and lower trailing arms.

My suspension is all new and still had a rear end floppy/lose over bumps as if it was tracking a little to the left or right.


The way the trailing arms affect you is doesnt matter if they are bent, they shouldnt be anyways unless they hit/caught on something.

At each end you have rubber bushing which mine were completly cracked and loose i could move them with my fingers let alone the weight of the car.

Basically these are what keeps your axle in position and place, if the axles loose side to side/ up and down slighty, you can replace everything you want and wont fix it except for these.

[abnrjd]

I once replaced the upper and lower trailing arms in less time than a year the death sway was back. Buy the split polyurethane kit from 4X4 parts and the problem will be solved. I did mine in a day. No press needed either just a heavy vise, and a reciprocating saw. With a large socket in the vise, press out the inner bolt sleeves of the control arms, 4 total. With the control clamped in the vise, use the reciprocating saw and carefully cut the inner sleeve in two places, being sure not to cut the control arm. Use a hammer and a punch and drive out the sleeve in pieces.

[artemny]

Hey folks. Thanks for all your inputs.
Any help is really really appreciated.
So what was currently done.

New shocks: zero
New springs: zero

My mechanic said it's NOT the control arms. So it's gonna be my last step after I do these two:

After some research (including your advice, guys) I decided to put new bumpers... you know, the ones inside the spring. And 2" lift spacers, since the rear of a car looks MUCH MUCH lower than the front. I checked the difference (front and rear) from a floor to fenders (I know it's not the right way to measure it, but still) and the difference is 2,75", so I decided to go with 2" spacers, not too much, not too little. So where can i get some? I tried to search the forum, but most links are DEAD.

And the bumpers. I found those on Amazon, called Febest (clic the link). They are pretty cheap, have anyone of you ever used it? Are they worth the shot? Or I should go wth OEM ones?

THANKS AGAIN!!!

[artemny]

I once replaced the upper and lower trailing arms in less time than a year the death sway was back. Buy the split polyurethane kit from 4X4 parts and the problem will be solved. I did mine in a day. No press needed either just a heavy vise, and a reciprocating saw. With a large socket in the vise, press out the inner bolt sleeves of the control arms, 4 total. With the control clamped in the vise, use the reciprocating saw and carefully cut the inner sleeve in two places, being sure not to cut the control arm. Use a hammer and a punch and drive out the sleeve in pieces.

Thanks for the input.
It's actually not a death sway. The sucker is bottoming out really badly, even when the car is 4/5 empty (only me, and I'm not THAT heavy, I workout )

[saveth]

Look into installing some air bags. My car would bottom out all the time with 4 people in the car. Even after replacing the rear shocks, it got slightly better but nowhere near acceptable. I installed air lift bags in the rear with 15psi and have never bottomed out. I've had 5 people in the car while pulling a trailer that weighed about 1500 pounds.

[artemny]

Look into installing some air bags. My car would bottom out all the time with 4 people in the car. Even after replacing the rear shocks, it got slightly better but nowhere near acceptable. I installed air lift bags in the rear with 15psi and have never bottomed out. I've had 5 people in the car while pulling a trailer that weighed about 1500 pounds.

EXACTLY!!!


Just ordered mine. What brand did you get?
I've got AIR LIFT 60742 1000.
Reasonable price and doesn't look that complicated to install.

Was wondering if I can still drop 2" lift on the setup with air bags.


PS replaced the bumpers today. Bottoming out got softer, but didn't fix the problem.

[artemny]

Quick update on a work done to fix bottoming out.

1. New springs: no help
2. New shocks: no help
3. New bumpers: no help

4. 2" lift spacers: on it's way
5. Air bags: on it's way


Stay tuned

[donald]

This sounds bad if you're having to resort to air-bags to "fix" a bottom-out issue. Personally speaking, air-bags are to lower and raise your truck... not to solve suspension issues.

May I ask what the truck is doing that makes believe the rear is bottoming out? When it does bottom out, i'd expect it to sound like someone gave a moderate kick to the body of the truck.
Also, if you were to get on your rear body bumper and shifted (I don't want you to literally jump up and down) your weight up and down on the bumper, can you get it to bottom out? what if you and a friend/another person did that same thing, can it bottom out?
If you just stand on the rear bumper, does it still droop the rear down significantly?
When you use your hands (standing on firm ground now ) and push up and down on the bumper, is it soft/squishy or stiff? how many times does it bounce up and down if you pressed down really hard once?

It's very surprising (as I'm sure you already understand :P) that it's bottoming out with new shocks and new springs.
New rear bumpers wouldn't technically solve anything, as they're there to soften to blow when the suspension is taken to it's limits; bumpers are a sacrificial piece - sacrifice the bumper rather than damage to your under-body.

How high does the body of the truck sit above ground? Maybe these measurements may help diagnose the issue. You can measure from the jacking point, so that measurements between you, me, other members are referenced consistently.
I'll take measurements off of mine and share them later tonight, though I've installed ARB EMU MD spings, which gives my Q a little bit of a lift above stock (so I'm told).

I sympathize for you... this definitely is a sour situation. Though, I'm still under the impression that air bags should NOT be your solution.

good luck.

[artemny]

Hey D.
I don't know where to begin

This sounds bad if you're having to resort to air-bags to "fix" a bottom-out issue. Personally speaking, air-bags are to lower and raise your truck... not to solve suspension issues.

Well what can I say. Raising it with air or spacers is the only option I have right now, since standard methods don't work.

May I ask what the truck is doing that makes believe the rear is bottoming out?

Believe is a wrong word here. My teeth are falling off when it happens.
Replacing rubber bumpers helped a bit. Made the actual kick a bit softer, but obviously didn't fix the problem.

Well, there's no bottoming out on the bumps. But when (on speed over 25mph) the rear of the car hits a hole or deepening of any kind (with two wheels at the same time), it bottoms out really badly WHEN THE CAR IS EMPTY. I can't even put people in the back nowadays.

When it does bottom out, i'd expect it to sound like someone gave a moderate kick to the body of the truck.

Moderate kick I wish.
Imagine you lift your truck with a crane 10 ft in the air and suddenly drop it. That's how it feels.

Also, if you were to get on your rear body bumper and shifted (I don't want you to literally jump up and down) your weight up and down on the bumper, can you get it to bottom out? what if you and a friend/another person did that same thing, can it bottom out?

No we can't make it bottom out this way even together. And we are 220lb each.

If you just stand on the rear bumper, does it still droop the rear down significantly?

Yeah, I guess you can call it significantly...

When you use your hands (standing on firm ground now ) and push up and down on the bumper, is it soft/squishy or stiff? how many times does it bounce up and down if you pressed down really hard once?

I'd say it's moderate stiff. And it doesn't bounce if I press down really hard. It just goes back. Well maybe one small bounce...

It's very surprising (as I'm sure you already understand :P) that it's bottoming out with new shocks and new springs.

Very surprising to me, to my mechanic, and especially to my wallet

New rear bumpers wouldn't technically solve anything

I know that, but I was expecting them to soften the actually kick, which they did. But still waaaaaaaaaaay not enough.

How high does the body of the truck sit above ground? Maybe these measurements may help diagnose the issue.

Honestly I didn't measure it, but I measured the difference front and rear floor-to-fender. Rear is 2,5"-2,75" lower than the front.

good luck.

THANKS!!!

[donald]

Honestly I didn't measure it, but I measured the difference front and rear floor-to-fender. Rear is 2,5"-2,75" lower than the front.

so as it sits (no occupants), does the rear slouch down lower than the front? or does it look level?

also - perhaps for my own curiousity - could you either snap a picture of your truck from the side, or record a video/audio of the truck going over a pothole or whatever else gives the bottoming out?
I'm really intrigued by this problem. I had a old sedan that needed new suspension (springs and shocks) and that thing would bottom-out coming down slow from speed-bumps, but when I drive just a tad faster over speed bumps, it would pass over without bottoming out most of the time. Sort of like, if you've every played the original Super Mario Bros, how Mario/Luigi could run over small gaps without falling in, the faster you go, the less time your suspension has to react to the imperfection (bump, hole, speedbump) in the road.

The other thing I'd suggest to look at is to get under the rear, and twist the trailing arms, 2 each side. If they're loose and easy to twist, the bushings are shot - though that wouldn't necessarily explain bottoming out, but perhaps the bushings are so broken up that it's rattling the under carriage. While you're down there, you can also check the pan-hard rod and bushings in the same way; try to twist it or wiggle it. It's the rod that extends from left-to-right, just in front of the spare tire. Usually, if the rear trailing arm bushings are shot, your truck would sway (R50 drivers termed it the "death sway") upon quick acceleration changes; for me, when I quickly let go of the gas (going highspeed, 55mph+), the rear will make a quick swerve to the left, and when I get back on the gas it'll make a quick swerve to the right.
Also make sure your spare tire is snug, or try taking down your spare tire and see if the noise still exists.
The reason for all this is to see if there's some loose piece that's slamming against the frame or something when you hit a pothole, seeing that you've replaced shocks, struts, and springs already.

[artemny]

could you either snap a picture

It's with brand new shocks and springs.

[artemny]

Just got spacers from this guy, which seems like a very decent guy and quality is pretty good. Worth the money



Waiting for airbags.
Can't wait to drop it all into my car.
Have doubts about both spacers and airbags working together well, but we'll see. I'll keep the thread updated.

[donald]

Thanks for humoring the request, artemmy I honestly appreciate it.

So it definitely doesn't look right... But you already knew that.
Would you mind telling which manufacturer/model springs you bought and installed? You mentioned using after market parts.

Not to offend, but I wonder if either you got shorter/incorrect springs than stock... Or your mechanic might have switched the rears with the fronts? But maybe the switch is impossible; iirc the fronts (uncompressed) are actually taller than the rears.

[Brute 03]

Dude if those are new springs in the rear, then they must be lowering springs or something because that definitely isn't right

[artemny]

Dude if those are new springs in the rear, then they must be lowering springs or something because that definitely isn't right

That is exactly what it looks like, but this is not the case. It was that low with the orriginal OEM springs. And these springs are direct fit for 02 r50 LE from MOOG. I checked it with a few online stores, plus my mechanic's part dealer.

And yes, I'm confused too. May it be some frame bent? I'm open to all possibilities, but who cares. I just want it to be fixed as cheap as possible. I already put in this car more than it costs. My next car will definitely be a new or very low mile car.

[yngw13]

could you either snap a picture

It's with brand new shocks and springs.

+1 this looks wrong also...

I remember buying those cheap moog springs in ROCKAUTO and it alleviated the low height and bumpy feel I was having from the OEM factory springs ///ORIGINALS/// it came with the truck when I got it used...

Mine looks higher in the back ....after install

[artemny]

It's with brand new shocks and springs.

+1 this looks wrong also...

I remember buying those cheap moog springs in ROCKAUTO and it alleviated the low height and bumpy feel I was having from the OEM factory springs ///ORIGINALS/// it came with the truck when I got it used...

Mine looks higher in the back ....after install

Well... Didn't fix mine.

[robbykennedy]

I want to replace my rear coil springs to raise the back of my pathy like yours.
Which website did you get those coil springs and how much did you spend ?

[donald]

if you want to raise it... consider OME coils: suspension-lifts-101-t491011.html

[artemny]

Everything is installed. Works as advertised.
Will give a full review within a few days.
Learned lots of interesting stuff the hard way.

Stay tuned...

[kayakag]

I'm having the exact same problem on my 2001 QX4. Changed the shocks/struts when I first bought it (used) thinking that would fix the problem, but it hardly helped.

I'll be looking foward to your review and recommendations! Not sure I could do this kind of work myself (depending on what is required and the tools), but thanks for posting all of this great information!