Suspension is killing me.

[donald]

I'm having the exact same problem on my 2001 QX4. Changed the shocks/struts when I first bought it (used) thinking that would fix the problem, but it hardly helped.

I'll be looking foward to your review and recommendations! Not sure I could do this kind of work myself (depending on what is required and the tools), but thanks for posting all of this great information!

shocks and struts aren't what hold your car UP. It's what prevents your car from BOUNCING all over the place when going over bumps.
If your problem is a "height" problem, then you need to have your springs/coils inspected and possibly replaced. Using parts intended to modify the stock height of the truck so that you can reach stock height is not a solution, IMO.

I'm not knocking on the artemny's decision, but personally, I would not suggest it as the method to fix the problem. If there is a serious issue with the body or something else, it could be dangerous, and by essentially "covering up" the problem with spacers and airbags is not what I'd necessarily call a "fix". It sounds like there's a whole lot of something else going on with the truck.
Again, artemny, I'm not trying to offend, just my opinion.

I'm especially surprised that artemny's mechanic could not root-cause the issue having been under his truck and working on his suspension.

[artemny]

I'm having the exact same problem on my 2001 QX4. Changed the shocks/struts when I first bought it (used) thinking that would fix the problem, but it hardly helped.

I'll be looking foward to your review and recommendations! Not sure I could do this kind of work myself (depending on what is required and the tools), but thanks for posting all of this great information!

shocks and struts aren't what hold your car UP. It's what prevents your car from BOUNCING all over the place when going over bumps.
If your problem is a "height" problem, then you need to have your springs/coils inspected and possibly replaced. Using parts intended to modify the stock height of the truck so that you can reach stock height is not a solution, IMO.

I'm not knocking on the artemny's decision, but personally, I would not suggest it as the method to fix the problem. If there is a serious issue with the body or something else, it could be dangerous, and by essentially "covering up" the problem with spacers and airbags is not what I'd necessarily call a "fix". It sounds like there's a whole lot of something else going on with the truck.
Again, artemny, I'm not trying to offend, just my opinion.

I'm especially surprised that artemny's mechanic could not root-cause the issue having been under his truck and working on his suspension.

No offend taken at all. I respect your opinion, but...
New shock and springs didn't help. My mechanic as well as dealership guys said that everything else looks normal. So what could it be? What I supposed to do? Start replacing every single part of a chassis, hoping to find the problem by a lucky guess? It would cost more than the whole car costs... I didn't see any other options but to go aftermarket. If you see any other ways to fix it, please share...

Now back to a review.
(give me a few minutes to spit it all)

[kayakag]

donald,

You're not understanding what is happening here. When I hit a significant bump, the rear part of the vehicle is jarred like there is no suspsension AT ALL. This would seem like a shock/strut problem, but after replaceing this equiment with brand new ones, it did not have an effect. I would rather find cheap solutions for a 13 year old vehicle, and if the gentleman above is willing to provide that, then I'm grateful!

My back end is lower than the front, but only slightly and I've never measured it.

[artemny]

What was the major problem:

Very bad bottoming out.

FIX (by my mechanic AND a dealership):

1. Checked control arms (2 pairs), stabilizer and a few more (possibly affected) parts. No aftermarket welding (by a previous owner) and no damage/problem with current OEM parts.

2. The decision was made to replace shocks and springs. Also, just to make sure replaced stop bumpers. Neither of 3 helped. The rear end didn't leveled up, didn't become soft or rough. (money to garbage).

3. Next, I decided to put 2" spacers (2,5" overall height of a spacer, lifts a car 2").

4. PROs for spacers: (a) the ride became softer, (b) front and rear end leveled. CONs for spacers: (a) fixed a bottoming out problem 10% max, not a big change, (b) while cornering one side is inclining much more than the other.

5. Since non of the above helped, I decided to go for the last option: air suspension.

6. Bought AirLift 1000. Installed it myself in 1hr since no special tools are needed and the springs don't have to be removed. Installed it. Inflated it, bottoming out is gone. I did 60 (hope cops don't read it ) in one of the spots where it was badly bottoming out while doing 25. Didn't feel nothing. Took it like a champ.



Long story short:
New shocks - didn't help.
New springs - didn't help.
New bumpers - (obviously) didn't help.
All other parts of a suspension work good.
New spacers - helped with a level but didn't help with bottoming out.
New airbags - fixed bottoming out completely.



One more thing about the airbags. The manufacturer states that those airbags don't lift the car. This is not true. They lifted my car 0.5"-1".


Now some pictures.

SPACERS:



AIRBAGS:





- Bought spacers from this guy >>> CLICK<<<
- Bought Airlift from these guys >>>CLICK<<<
- Springs: Direct fit for this model from Moog
- Bumpers: OEM.
- Shocks: Not sure.


My advice is not to go through all these troubles and money spending and go for air. End of a story.
Or try to find some aftermarket tough offroad springs that will hold the load and lift the rear end a little bit. I didn't try it myself, so can't say anything about this option.


PS I'm NOT a mechanic. All ideas, advice and reviews I give, I do from personal experience, and you do everything at your own risk. Please don't blame me if something is gonna go wrong.

PSx2 Donald, would really like to know your opinion on all this.

THANKS!!!

[artemny]

donald,

You're not understanding what is happening here. When I hit a significant bump, the rear part of the vehicle is jarred like there is no suspsension AT ALL. This would seem like a shock/strut problem, but after replaceing this equiment with brand new ones, it did not have an effect. I would rather find cheap solutions for a 13 year old vehicle, and if the gentleman above is willing to provide that, then I'm grateful!

My back end is lower than the front, but only slightly and I've never measured it.

Exactly!!! Like there's no suspension.
Odd.

[fleurys]

Just so you know....

You put the spacers at the wrong place.... they go on the bottom...

Also, a 2" rear spacer will raise the truck 2" at the back..not 2.5".... this 2.5" is for the front spacers because of the IFS nature of things.
...
i'm happy that you fixed your problem.

S.

[artemny]

Just so you know....
You put the spacers at the wrong place.... they go on the bottom...

Well what's the real difference?
I don't know why, but it felt just safer to put them on the top.
PS there was no instruction included

Also, a 2" rear spacer will raise the truck 2" at the back..not 2.5".... this 2.5" is for the front spacers because of the IFS nature of things.

I'm not sure I got this one.
Overall height of a spacer is 2,5" but the actual 'working' height that lifts the car is 2" right?


Thanks for looking

[donald]

It looks awesome in there

As for my humble opinion - I'd personally still like to know what's up with the truck to make the rear sag so much :P
Last night, i even spent about 5minutes laying under the rear axle of my truck to try to think of what could be the cause of the bottom out when going over bumps.

I considered... maybe the trailing arms were modified (longer) in assumption that perhaps the previous owner may have raised the truck in such a way to have needed longer arms to allow for the lift. But the axle looks pretty centered in your pictures. Or maybe previous owner lowered it?
Then I wondered if perhaps the upper trailing arms were removed and never replaced? But then that would make your truck sway on sudden accelerator press or release, and you didn't mention that.
Then I recalled another thread about "clunking" in the front, and a comment mentioned the sway bar links - but I couldn't imagine that your rear links could cause a bottom out.
My last thought was the panhard arm (arm that runs side-to-side, just in front of the spare), but iirc, that just aligns your anle to the body - so that it doesn't wish-wash from under the body.

My only other thought is the springs, despite you telling me that it's MOOG's direct replacement part for the Pathfinder The rear sits too low IMO.

Nevertheless, keep monitoring your suspension, such as measuring height from a consistent part on the body to the ground, monitor suspension handling, etc.
I figure your suspension will reduce a little as the new shocks/struts/springs settle in - maybe after a month of consistent driving, there should be no more reduction.

I continue to wish you best of luck, and for the most part glad you found some resolution in the spacers and airbags.

[fleurys]

Just so you know....
You put the spacers at the wrong place.... they go on the bottom...

Well what's the real difference?
I don't know why, but it felt just safer to put them on the top.
PS there was no instruction included

Also, a 2" rear spacer will raise the truck 2" at the back..not 2.5".... this 2.5" is for the front spacers because of the IFS nature of things.

I'm not sure I got this one.
Overall height of a spacer is 2,5" but the actual 'working' height that lifts the car is 2" right?


Thanks for looking

the spacers works like this :

For the front:
1" of spacer will raise the front 1"
1.5" of spacer will raise the front 2"
2" of spacer will raise the front 2.5"

For the rear:
1" of spacer will raise the rear 1"
1.5" of spacer will raise the rear 1.5"
2" of spacer will raise the front 2"

This is simply because the front is IFS and you actually change the geometry of the front by lifting, and for the rear it is a solid axle, so it's a direct lift. no geometry change..

Thanks for the hint for the instructions, I will put some on my website.

S.

[artemny]

the spacers works like this :

For the front:
1" of spacer will raise the front 1"
1.5" of spacer will raise the front 2"
2" of spacer will raise the front 2.5"

For the rear:
1" of spacer will raise the rear 1"
1.5" of spacer will raise the rear 1.5"
2" of spacer will raise the front 2"

This is simply because the front is IFS and you actually change the geometry of the front by lifting, and for the rear it is a solid axle, so it's a direct lift. no geometry change..

Thanks for the hint for the instructions, I will put some on my website.

S.

So if I put 2.5", the car will be lifted 2.5"? That's it?

Yeah you don't need to write some huge instruction. Just basics.

And one more time about a position of them, top or bottom. Is there a REAL difference? If there's is, I'm gonna go to my mechanic to move them, but really don't wanna do it if it's ok to leave them like this....

[artemny]

It looks awesome in there

As for my humble opinion - I'd personally still like to know what's up with the truck to make the rear sag so much :P
Last night, i even spent about 5minutes laying under the rear axle of my truck to try to think of what could be the cause of the bottom out when going over bumps.

I considered... maybe the trailing arms were modified (longer) in assumption that perhaps the previous owner may have raised the truck in such a way to have needed longer arms to allow for the lift. But the axle looks pretty centered in your pictures. Or maybe previous owner lowered it?
Then I wondered if perhaps the upper trailing arms were removed and never replaced? But then that would make your truck sway on sudden accelerator press or release, and you didn't mention that.
Then I recalled another thread about "clunking" in the front, and a comment mentioned the sway bar links - but I couldn't imagine that your rear links could cause a bottom out.
My last thought was the panhard arm (arm that runs side-to-side, just in front of the spare), but iirc, that just aligns your anle to the body - so that it doesn't wish-wash from under the body.

My only other thought is the springs, despite you telling me that it's MOOG's direct replacement part for the Pathfinder The rear sits too low IMO.

Nevertheless, keep monitoring your suspension, such as measuring height from a consistent part on the body to the ground, monitor suspension handling, etc.
I figure your suspension will reduce a little as the new shocks/struts/springs settle in - maybe after a month of consistent driving, there should be no more reduction.

I continue to wish you best of luck, and for the most part glad you found some resolution in the spacers and airbags.

Good post. I went through everything you said with BOTH my mechanic AND dealership. Everything looks in order, except a few minor things that cannot do any change to a car level.

[fleurys]

the spacers works like this :

For the front:
1" of spacer will raise the front 1"
1.5" of spacer will raise the front 2"
2" of spacer will raise the front 2.5"

For the rear:
1" of spacer will raise the rear 1"
1.5" of spacer will raise the rear 1.5"
2" of spacer will raise the front 2"

This is simply because the front is IFS and you actually change the geometry of the front by lifting, and for the rear it is a solid axle, so it's a direct lift. no geometry change..

Thanks for the hint for the instructions, I will put some on my website.

S.

So if I put 2.5", the car will be lifted 2.5"? That's it?

Yeah you don't need to write some huge instruction. Just basics.

And one more time about a position of them, top or bottom. Is there a REAL difference? If there's is, I'm gonna go to my mechanic to move them, but really don't wanna do it if it's ok to leave them like this....

They were not made to be on top and never been tested like this. Frankly, i would not put it there. When your suspension moves up and down, the bottom of your spring do not move with angle... The top does... I would be scared the lip is not high enough to prevent the coil to slip out ....

If i were you , i would put them at bottom....

[artemny]

They were not made to be on top and never been tested like this. Frankly, i would not put it there. When your suspension moves up and down, the bottom of your spring do not move with angle... The top does... I would be scared the lip is not high enough to prevent the coil to slip out ....

If i were you , i would put them at bottom....

Got it!
Thanks...

Damn, I'm tired to pay mechanics, but this one I obviously can't do by myself...
The problem is that I'll have to rebuild the airbag system and it's gonna be more difficult to installed it with spacers down there...

[donald]

artemny, you could buy a pair of spring compressors (not sure if NY has Harbor Freight) like these: http://www.harborfreight.com/macpherson ... 61654.html
if you want to try the job yourself.

[artemny]

artemny, you could buy a pair of spring compressors (not sure if NY has Harbor Freight) like these: http://www.harborfreight.com/macpherson ... 61654.html
if you want to try the job yourself.

I was thinking about it a long time ago.
I don't wanna sound girly, but springs is something I don't wanna handle under any condition. If you do something wrong, compressor fail or something else will go bad, you can end up with that spring in your head.


Something like this. Watch from 10:20 point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLVvS6CuNlQ
(sorry not sure how to insert youtube video)

[donald]

Holy crap... I think I pooped a little, myself :X haha.
no need to worry about sounding girly that should be a fear in everyone's mind

[Chuck Tribolet]

Is the rubber bump stop inside the spring?

Chuck

[artemny]

Is the rubber bump stop inside the spring?

Chuck

Yes chuck, it is. I was surprised but the airlift instruction shows that it must stay inside.

[robbykennedy]

What was the major problem:

Very bad bottoming out.

FIX (by my mechanic AND a dealership):

5. Since non of the above helped, I decided to go for the last option: air suspension.

6. Bought AirLift 1000. Installed it myself in 1hr since no special tools are needed and the springs don't have to be removed. Installed it. Inflated it, bottoming out is gone. I did 60 (hope cops don't read it ) in one of the spots where it was badly bottoming out while doing 25. Didn't feel nothing. Took it like a champ.

New airbags - fixed bottoming out completely.

SPACERS:



AIRBAGS:




- Bought Airlift from these guys >>>CLICK<<<

artemny,

I have been following this thread very close because I have the same problem. I have a 2003 pathy with only 86K miles and the problem is the same.
I am going to purchase the airlifts 1000 to install in my rear suspension to prevent the bottoming out from happening. I am bit confused about the installation; in your write up you indicated you were able to install the Airlift 1000 without removing the coil springs, however I was reading the installation manual and it suggests to remove the coils. I am attracted to doing this job if I do not have to remove the coils.

My other question is, do I have to buy spacers?.

[artemny]

artemny,

I have been following this thread very close because I have the same problem. I have a 2003 pathy with only 86K miles and the problem is the same.
I am going to purchase the airlifts 1000 to install in my rear suspension to prevent the bottoming out from happening. I am bit confused about the installation; in your write up you indicated you were able to install the Airlift 1000 without removing the coil springs, however I was reading the installation manual and it suggests to remove the coils. I am attracted to doing this job if I do not have to remove the coils.

My other question is, do I have to buy spacers?.

I'll be more than glad to help you out. Just want to remind you, I'm NOT a mechanic and can't give you a pro advice, so you take it on your own risk.

Well, if your rear end and front end are leveled and you don't want/need to lift the rear end, you don't need spacers. I put them on ONLY to fix the level.
If you need to fix ONLY bottoming out, you need only airlift.

You don't need to remove springs to put the bags in, after some effort (took me about 2 minutes) I've been able to push it in. HOWEVER the car has to be lifted on a jack to make gaps between spring loops wider (not a safe thing to do with a jack if you are under the car).

The tricky part is to connect a bag nipple with a tubing inside of the spring.

What I did (after reading the uncompleted instruction) is connecting the bag with tubing BEFORE putting the bag inside of the spring. I also removed (with a cutter) those tiny clip handles so that it could go through the hole. You'll see what I'm talking about as soon as you take it in your hands. Sorry, didn't do any 'in progress' pictures.

[robbykennedy]

I only need to fix the bottoming out, my path seems to be leveled. Based on your write up I only need airlift, even if it raises the back of the vehicle that won't be a problem.

Thanks for your quick response.

[artemny]

Thanks for your quick response.

No prob. I took a sick day off. And actually sick

[robbykennedy]

Thanks for your quick response.

No prob. I took a sick day off. And actually sick

I do not know how to insert pics , otherwise I would post of my pathy.

[artemny]

I do not know how to insert pics , otherwise I would post of my pathy.

Upload pic here http://postimage.org/

Then insert a direct link in an /img/ tag

[robbykennedy]

artemny,

I also removed (with a cutter) those tiny clip handles so that it could go through the hole. You'll see what I'm talking about as soon as you take it in your hands. Sorry, didn't do any 'in progress' pictures.

artemny,

I finally purchased the Airlifts 1000 for my pathy. I am still trying to figure out what you mean by "removing with a cutter those tiny clip handles so that it could go through the hole".

Another question that I have is did you have to drill a hole to install the inflation valve?.

Once completed with the installation can the vehicle be on the ground to inflate the bags, correct?

The instructions call for 35lbs psi pressure, so I guess I am going to start with that.

[robbykennedy]

Never mind, I finally figured it out. My airlifts are installed and all i can say is thank you for the tip. No more bottoming out and the ride is very smooth going over bumps and dips.

[artemny]

Never mind, I finally figured it out. My airlifts are installed and all i can say is thank you for the tip. No more bottoming out and the ride is very smooth going over bumps and dips.

Sorry. Was busy. I was talking about those small lips on tube clips. You have to either drill a bigger hole (which requires removing of the spring) or cutting those lips off after the installation.

Glad it helped. Any pics?

[robbykennedy]

I do not know how to post pics on this site, sorry

Otherwise I would like to share pics.

P.S. I was able to cut the lips on the clips before the install, however I am not sure if the tube with the clips cut off went through the hole correctly. I would have to lift the car and check. I drove the car for a hole day and no bottoming out whatsoever and no issues. If there was a problem I would know by now.

Also those things really raised the back of my truck, I had to drop the air pressure down to 10 psi to keep it at the level I like it.

[artemny]

If there was a problem I would know by now.

The strange thing is that for the first 2 days it was losing some air like 1psi every 1hr. But after that it stopped for whatever reason. Been driving like this for over a month no problem so far.

Also those things really raised the back of my truck, I had to drop the air pressure down to 10 psi to keep it at the level I like it.

EXACTLY! Though they stated it's NOT lifting the car at all...

[robbykennedy]

I also need to replace my rear shocks. Let me be clear by saying that bottoming out is totally gone, none whatsoever. The rear of my pathy feels really bouncy. For my 03 Pathfinder there are not too many choices out there for rear shocks.
After reading reviews from users the best choice is KYB. They offer two different types of shocks but I can't decide which shocks to buy.
The first choice in the KYB brand is the EXCEL G OE Replacement. According to KYB's website this is the recommended OE replacement. One reviewer gave it a one star by saying that his Pathfinder bounces excessively. Another reviewer gave it a five star by saying that They're the perfect balance of firm/pliant for on-road driving where the biggest obstacle is a speedbump or a pothole.
The second choice in the KYB brand is the Gas-A-Just monotube shock absorber. One review rated it with four stars by saying that the Shock provided the compression as needed such as on bumps and drops (same as Rancho), yet provide the stiffness on turns (bit better than Rancho). A second reviewer gave it a four stars by saying After having drove around 100mi in these Gas-A-Justs, I do notice a stiffer ride in the rear compared to the front.

Bottom line is that I need to replace my shocks but I do not know which ones.

I read on your post that you replaced your rear shocks, which kind did you buy?