Subaru's dirty little secret.

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IanS
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With all the automotive recalls as of late, I cant help but think, maybe its time for another. I picked up a bit of side work this week, and what I found is disturbing. I know there are quite a few Subaru owners on here, so you may want to take note.

The story: Back in 2002, when the Subaru WRX hit our shores a friend of mine wasted no time in picking one up. He being a rally enthusiast, it was no surprise to me. He ended up buying a brand new World Rally Blue, wingless WRX sedan. I credit this car as one of the things that pushed my interest with cars into a full blown addiction. He owns the car to this day. It has been kept in immaculate condition, all the maintenance covered, and 100% stock. Even with harsh MN winters, there is not a spec of rust on the car. Or so it seemed.

After a visit to the Subaru dealership for some AC work last week, the owner was informed that the front subframe was in need of replacement due to rust. He was surprised to say the least. With only 104,000 miles, it just didn't make sense.

Here is where I come in. Being the grease monkey that I am, he came to me, to replace the subframe as the dealership was looking for an obscene amount of money to do the work. I was a little surprised, I would have never thought this car would have this kind of issue. I agreed to do the work, and at the same time, the owner wanted to replace the clutch, as well as refresh the engine, and replace any leaking seals/gaskets.

I decided to just go ahead and pull the engine out. This way I could go over it, replace the clutch, and have good access to the front subframe.

Getting to work.

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Besides being a little dusty, the car is darn near mint.

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Starting to remove all the little plastic bits.

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And accessories.

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And the intercooler, and the rest of the stuff under there. Then I hooked it up to the cherry picker.

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The motor is in need of a wash.

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Ok, back to my story. With the motor out I got a good look at the subframe. Having seen the bottom side earlier, I was not surprised by how far the nasty had gotten. This subframe ties together the whole front end, linking the radiator core support to the engine cradle and LCAs, all the way back to the front of the floor pan frame rails.

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The 3 plastic plugs you see in this last picture cover the actual bolts that attach the subframe to the unibody.

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Ok, I pulled the subframe today. The damage goes even further than I had previously imagined.

The bottom side of the subframe, check out that massive hole on the passenger side. It is easily 14" long.

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And the drivers side isn't far behind.

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And the side of the subframe, more holes.

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The other side.

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The top side doesnt look as bad, right.

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You also might notice the rust all over the driveway. The subframe is full of it. Every time I turned or moved it, it would spill out of all the holes.

I just don't get it. This is a huge safety issue, the structural rigidity of the whole front end is compromised. Then it hit me. If this one is so bad, then there must be more out there just like it. After just 2 minutes of searching, I was able to find at least 5 other cases of this exact same issue. Almost every hit on the first page of google was a different car with subframe rust complaints. I even found people complaining about it as early as 2008 for an 02. I also happen to work with a guy who has a nice 05 WRX, and I wondered, what if. I took a peak under the car, and I was surprised to see that it already had severe surface rust on much of the front subframe.

I cant imaging these cars retain any of their factory crash worthiness in this condition.

Is it possible that Subaru doesn't know how bad this problem had become?

Subaru, I really like your cars, and you have always held yourself above many of the other auto manufacturers, but this is worrisome. This is my first step in bringing this issue to the attention of the public, but I may decide to take it further.

I will pull the subframe tomorrow morning, and get some better pictures of the damage.


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Jesda
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Sheesh, that's unacceptable. With the SRT4 thread from last week and Toyota's recent buybacks of rusty late-model pickups, it seems like manufacturers are neglecting corrosion protection.

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PEZi
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rustARU :gotme

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simmode1
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Jesus Christ thats some rust... I would have thought that was a 240 if I didn't know better! :ohno:

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Urabus GodofTraction
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My 02 has not a drop of rust on it.

All the rust recalls are making me wonder if there's some sort of chemical other than salt states are laying down that they didn't before.

S13_love
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:eek:

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IanS
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charlieo wrote:My 02 has not a drop of rust on it.

All the rust recalls are making me wonder if there's some sort of chemical other than salt states are laying down that they didn't before.
Its really wild, the whole rest of the car is clean, even underneath. The unibody is all spotless. Its just this subframe.

If you ask me, they need to stop putting down anything at all. People need to learn, that if you live up here, YOU NEED TO BUY SNOW TIRES. Rolling around on all seasons in MN winters is like trying to eat soup with a spork. Sure you can do it, but sooner or later you are going to stab the heck out of your tongue. But that is another thread entirely.

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frapjap
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Yikes, thats scary! Looking forwards to more pictures of the rust.

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MellowZ32
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simmode1 wrote:Jesus Christ thats some rust... I would have thought that was a 240 if I didn't know better! :ohno:
my POS 240 has less rust than that!

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4cefed
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Uh... most of my cars look like that underneath. Vermont is not friendly to cars. I already put a jack through the frame on my 240 and that came from maryland. Good think my mechanic has not noticed my frame repair as he inspects it.

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IanS
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4cefed wrote:Uh... most of my cars look like that underneath. Vermont is not friendly to cars. I already put a jack through the frame on my 240 and that came from maryland. Good think my mechanic has not noticed my frame repair as he inspects it.
Yah, but your 240 is 10 years older, so its understandable. This car isn't even 10 years old yet, and it barely has 100K on it. I have been under a lot of cars, and I have NEVER seen this kind of cancer on something so new.

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4cefed
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If I remember, I think Subaru used to have horrible rust problems. It took a long time for people to come back to the brand. Maybe they sorted out the paint process, but maybe not untreated metals.

Does this go back to the "Japan has no natural steel resources" thing? Or was that all crap?

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Koshin
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Subaru ftmfl

Alfador
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The frame rails on my S13 look just as bad, to be honest. Looking at $1k or so just for the welding work to have it shored up.

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IanS
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4cefed wrote:If I remember, I think Subaru used to have horrible rust problems. It took a long time for people to come back to the brand. Maybe they sorted out the paint process, but maybe not untreated metals.

Does this go back to the "Japan has no natural steel resources" thing? Or was that all crap?
Hmmm.

All the Japanese automakers have sort of had issues with rust. Just look at any Datsun from the North.

If that were true, then why is the whole rest of the car clean? I mean the rest of the unibody is as clean as my 06 Maxima.
Alfador wrote:The frame rails on my S13 look just as bad, to be honest. Looking at $1k or so just for the welding work to have it shored up.
But your S13 is more than twice as old, and that makes all the difference in the world.

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Koshin
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but your S13 is twice its age fool.

edit: just saw where Ian said the same thing

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Ajax
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The steel is probably coming from some of the same suppliers as most other cars. I'm no expert on Japan's economy, but I don't think steel production is super high on the list. Still, I imagine its probably not a reflection of the metal itself than one of the coatings placed on the metal, otherwise, the entire subframe would look similar, rather than just a small portion.
Ian, you're obviously going to paint the hell out of the replacement, so hopefully this won't be a problem for this car in the future.
And agreed on the snow tires- unless you really don't care about the car you're driving- winter beater FTW.

Edit- after doing a quick search, I discovered that steel production is one of their main economic factors being #2 in production 10 years ago (sliding a bit since- India ramped it up). However, I'm still not convinced its a quality of metal problem, as the steel is probably supplied to other manufacturers as well.
Last edited by Ajax on Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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breadbox
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Wow, I feel so much better about my 21+ year old cars now. I just need to stay on top of it a bit.

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s0m3th1ngAZ
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Wow...that is pretty dirty.

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4cefed
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FlatBlackIan wrote: All the Japanese automakers have sort of had issues with rust. Just look at any Datsun from the North.

If that were true, then why is the whole rest of the car clean? I mean the rest of the unibody is as clean as my 06 Maxima.
they put a lot more primer/coating step into the exterior body panels than the do miscellaneous bolt on steel parts. Did you see my SRT-4 sucks thread? My subframe rusted right through. The rest of the body is almost cherry. Different paint process.

When you get it replaced, coat the whole thing in used hot ATF.

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breadbox
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What does used hot ATF do to it? make it perma oily?

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wingFeather
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Not surprised. Japanese cars are using cheaper, thinner metal these days.

S13_love
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wingFeather wrote:Not surprised. Japanese cars are using cheaper, thinner metal these days.
Not too sure about this...

I think what Jesda said seems to be the case here, lack of corrosion protection (if there was any) imo.

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IanS
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wingFeather wrote:Not surprised. cars are using cheaper, thinner metal these days.
Fixed that for you.

Everyone is using thinner metal, and everyone is slacking on paint and finish quality. Its about saving money. After seeing the subframe out of the car, I can tell you, metal quality, or thickness has absolutely nothing to do with it.
S13_love wrote:
I think what Jesda said seems to be the case here, lack of corrosion protection (if there was any) imo.
Ding ding ding

Except not in the way I had thought. After getting a good look at it I can see where it all started. The subframe was painted with a sprayer, when in reality, it should have been dipped. All of the rust started on the inside, and worked its way out. I found a few places where the paint was in good condition, but the metal below was paper thin from rust. The problem was especially evident where welding was done.

More pictures are on the way, I will update the original post.

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Speedy7_7
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Im sure Ian is typing his heart out right now. We pulled the subframe this afternoon and it is worse than it looks in the earlier pictures, some of the holes are 8 inches long. The subframe feels like a noodle when pushed on, i would say it would take about 40 pounds of lateral force to bend it in half. My WRX had a similar issue, I sold it before it ever got this bad.

In my honest opinion, it seems that the rust is coming from inside out. Like they sprayed it with paint when it should have been dipped after welding.

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IanS
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OP is updated with pictures of the subframe out of the car.

Upon inspection, I've realized that no level of painting is going to stop this from happening again, and I have to assume that the new Subaru part will fall prey to a similar fate if I don't do something. I cant afford to dip it in paint, but some sort of petroleum based rust inhibitor, might prove cheaper. Especially if its in the form of 5 quarts of Nissan Matic K transmission fluid, that I drained from the Maxima last week. Decisions decisions.

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wow that is rediculous!

perhaps its the undercoating they use.... prob some environmental issue made better products illegal.

its not all japanese cars; my cressida has almost no rust on the underbody. just a small spot on the rear quarter and on the front fender.

but it was neglected its whole life.

i would hope that subaru would recall this; that is definately dangerous. The best thing would be a zinc coating, some of the porsche line used this in the late 80s (944s) and they are very hard to find rusty.

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Speedy7_7
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lol, are we going to make the garage stinky again?





Wow, that really sounded gay.

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Not quite sure, but what does trans oil do to help prevent rusting? I know oil coatings are good for metals, but why specifically trans? I read it twice in here...

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hitbychance
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PEZi720 wrote:rustARU :gotme
I Lol'd :tisk:


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