True. There are many methods to identify root causes. This is not a comprehensive RCA by any means. Just enough to catch a short chain of events that led up to engine failure.Double E wrote:I've done plenty of root cause analysis...
The rod bearings, shavings and loose fitment of components are results, not causes.
The true root cause would have to go further to find why the oil level was low.
Assuming a perfect (or properly operating) state prior to the event, it's a matter of considering what condition changed first.
All else is a result of that change.
Thanks for your contribution jiggersplat. I've not heard of many problems with the 08s.jiggersplat wrote:The VK45 in my 08 was replaced under warranty for piston ring failure before I bought it at around 63k miles.
1. I think you bring good information - that oil consumption is normal, but it varies from engine to engine over different seasons, using different oil grades and under various operating conditions. I think key is getting to know what your engine consumes and staying on top of the refills/oil changesFlawleZ wrote: 1... I do notice about a quart of oil consumption over 4000-4500 miles...
2. I feel like determining a cause for failure on many of the engines will be difficult because we won't have accurate records and/or accounts from the moment the vehicle was purchased new. I feel like a lot of failures can be attributed to improper maintenance schedules and/or improper service done to the engine.
Ple99, I have taken some liberties with your post. Correct me where I'm wrong.ple99 wrote: 1st failure
1. Year and model of your vehicle
2008 M45s
2. How many miles to failure
Leased the car new. Failed at 50K
3. Mode of failure
Rod bearings
4. Caused by
Running engine hard while 1-qt low on oil
5. Solution
Replaced the shortblock under warranty
2nd time
1. Year and model of your vehicle
2008 M45s
2. How many miles to failure
New shortblock at 50K. Failed 75K miles later
3. Mode of failure
Rod bearings
4. Caused by
?? No immediately obvious cause. Not driven hard, and not low on oil
5. Solution
Replaced the entire engine assembly*
Your theory about the deeper oil pan makes sense if the 06's down didn't have these problems and nothing else notable has changed. Based on your knowledge of these engines do you think it would be reasonable to maybe shoot for a half quart or so overfill on the newer ones?
EdBwoy wrote:...Also, I am rethinking my oil & oil pan depth assumption...
Oil delivery to the bearings shouldn't be a problem as long as the oil pickup tube supplying the oil pump is close enough to the bottom of the pan.,.
On my second engine, I have hit 150 with a custom cat back exhaust, cant remember if I had the secondary cats replaced with the test pipes or not. Definitely before the G37 VLSD installed. The original engine was replaced at 88k with a 2008 engine with 8k miles on it due to rod knock from #8 (didn't burn a drop of oil). How much was the cost of the engine rebuild and where at? I have the original engine sitting in my car and I am trying to decide if I should make use of it or make scrap of it. I ended up trading the M45 for a 15 Tundra limited.ple99 wrote:Well the first engine was exercised well. (How many have hit 150? They get to 130 easy and 140 fairly well but that last 10 to 150+ is a bit tough). But the second engine had a fairly normal life and never low on oil. All I know is these engines are clearly prone to rod bearing failures. I had the car since 8 miles to 125000+ miles and I'm on my third engine (had a total rebuild done on the 2nd).
Thanks for the contribution trayday. Odd that oil consumption wasn't an issue for you either.trayday wrote:... The original engine was replaced at 88k with a 2008 engine with 8k miles on it due to rod knock from #8 (didn't burn a drop of oil). How much was the cost of the engine rebuild and where at? I have the original engine sitting in my car and I am trying to decide if I should make use of it or make scrap of it. I ended up trading the M45 for a 15 Tundra limited.
I meant to say the engine is sitting in the garage. Also, when I hit 150, the car wasn't tuned yet either. If I can have it rebuilt for $2.5-2k then thats what its worth to me because its such a smooth revving engine that makes a good amount of power. Without a quote from a shop, its only worth about $500 sitting as not running.Thanks for the contribution trayday. Odd that oil consumption wasn't an issue for you either.
At least we are seeing more #8 failures and that might be something to focus on when I start my garage investigation.
If you chose to scrap your engine, how much is it worth to you?
Well, you can add me to the list again. This couldn't have been timed any better. 4-5K miles after the rebuild, my engine crapped out in a major way. Granted, there could have been an issue with the workmanship, but this is not the first engine I have rebuilt. That, and I had 3 M45s to compare with and all sounded relatively the same and performed the same. This really happened with no warning.EdBwoy wrote:...I know some people could be pushing over 200K miles with no issues, but some haven't been as lucky. I don't know what side I land on, but meanwhile, I'll keep stretching her legs as often as I can. If I tell my friends I damaged my engine, the story isn't as cool when I say I was just driving Miss Daisy...
im with 94jedi on this. i'm almost done with my motor replacement and i was planning on selling my 14 Tacoma to drop my monthly payment and pocket 10K, use the M45 as my daily. but if this is real issue, it may be in my best interest to flip this car.94jedi wrote:You guys have me worried now. I'm about to buy a 2007 M45s w/ 86k on the clock. 1 owner, well maintained. Should I be worried? I like to drive hard but I don't want to be replacing engines left and right.
Is this a common issue? I know there aren't many of these beasts running around but these cars get great reliability ratings. What gives?
94jedi, I can't think of any other 07 car you can buy for the price of an M45 that will be as powerful, look as good, handle as well and have the comfort features. I'd still have it checked out by a good tech at a dealership and if it checks out and you keep up with the maintenance, the odds would be in your favor.94jedi wrote:You guys have me worried now. I'm about to buy a 2007 M45s w/ 86k on the clock. 1 owner, well maintained. Should I be worried? I like to drive hard but I don't want to be replacing engines left and right.
Is this a common issue? I know there aren't many of these beasts running around but these cars get great reliability ratings. What gives?
TTThornhill, I'd also say the same for you. No need to flip it in worry. If the new engine seemed okay when you installed it, just check the oil levels frequently and it will still be happy.im with 94jedi on this. i'm almost done with my motor replacement and i was planning on selling my 14 Tacoma to drop my monthly payment and pocket 10K, use the M45 as my daily. but if this is real issue, it may be in my best interest to flip this car.
...also if this is an oil starvation issue, would any additives help?
yeah, but I can't correlate it to having been parked for a while, it just seems random. I'd estimate that about once every 6-8 weeks, I get a big cloud of smoke on startup, and maybe 3-4 times/year I get the extended valve clatter. Sometimes it goes on for over a minute.jiggersplat wrote:Does anyone else get just absolutely crazy valve train noise for about 30 seconds after not driving the car for a week?
Yikes, is that "normal" for these engines?jiggersplat wrote:Does anyone else get just absolutely crazy valve train noise for about 30 seconds after not driving the car for a week?