Simple Amp / Sub addition to the stock Bose

[dangeris]

Let me start off with I am not an audiophile by any means nor do I claim to be one. I love the sound of the stock Bose system and just want to add a little more "oompf" when the bass hits. I have a basic idea of what I want to do and and how to achieve it. I will be using Doc's write up on where to connect the LLC to the Bose amp. I'm pretty much doing the same thing as infantry is doing with his amp setup (in the spare tire wheel well) but I am only using 1 amp with a remote gain control, and 2 Infinity Kappa perfects 10.1 SVC subs rated at 350W RMS. The amp I will be using is rated for 900W RMS @2ohms.

My question is should I use a capacitor? if so, what size? Also if Apple or Doc can explain to me so I have a clearer knowledge, what is the benefits of adding a cap verses adding a second battery? Is it smoke and mirrors or do they actually serve a purpose or do I even need one at all since I am using one amp?

I've read Apple's FAQ and found nothing referring to capacitors. I'm sure the audio Gods will be waking up soon and chiming in so I'm anxious to hear from you guys...

Standing by for your response And thanks in advance!

[Rolling Estonian]

Well I can not claim to be an audio God but I will give what I can.

I don't think, for the power you are looking to add, you need a cap or a second battery. My amps combined are around 900+ watts and I have no ill effects (zero headlight flicker while the car is running).

[dangeris]

Well that's a good thing! I'm sure by me adding the 7 point ground system, that will help out!

[rjdmmfl1]

In the world of audio, I am no God... simply an enthusiast that knows more than the average consumer... Applebonker, IMO, is a bit further up the diety ladder than I am... with that said, here's my understanding on caps, second batteries, etc.

First, it is usually best to replace your factory battery! Factory acid batteries are not meant to withstand the beatings that an aftermarket amplifier and subwoofer put on the power band of your car. That is what deep discharge batteries (usually dry cell) are for. The contant draining on your factory battery will decrease the life of the battery over time. Also, these batteries do not maintain the proper voltage (in subwoofer setups )as well as dry cell batteries.

Next, an upgrade to the cables supplying your power system is usually recommended. This is reffered to as the bog three upgrade mentioned in the FAQ. In short, upgraded power from battery to alternator. Upgraded ground from battery to chasis. Upgraded ground from engine block to chasis.

Next, to the point of capacitors vs second batteries. Capacitors really do very little for your system. In my old setup, the caps were more for show than anything! That's why when I finally went with the two extra batteries, I got rid of the caps.

Iwould say, for your setup, something like the KINETIK HC800 power cell would be more than enough to keep the proper voltage going to your amplifiers, and give you the power you need!

I'm sure Applebonker will soon be chiming in with his opinions also!

[dangeris]

Thanks Doc I was thinking of upgrading my battery to a dry cell before the snow flies in the east but where can I buy those upgraded wires that you mentioned? Does Sentientbydesign sell those?

...I would say, for your setup, something like the KINETIK HC800 power cell would be more than enough to keep the proper voltage going to your amplifiers, and give you the power you need!

I'm assuming it will be enough AFTER i upgrade the stock battery and wires, correct?

[AppleBonker]

Yeah, I'm with Doc. Caps are pretty much worthless. You might even be ok on the stock battery. If not, an HC1800 will fit in the stock location and will be more than enough to power your system.

As far as the big three upgrade, I remember reading something about Sentient's grounding kit that might include a big three upgrade as well. If not, you can just pick up some 0 AWG cable from just about anywhere and run it yourself. You wont be drawing that much power, so I doubt you'll really have any electrical issues, especially if you rock the big 3!

[dangeris]

Thanks Apple and Doc. I appreciate your input on this. No Caps it then.

Apple, when you said an HC1800 will fit the stock location, are you referring to replacing the stock battery with a Kinetik HC1800? I'm assuming yes but just wanted to clarify.

[AppleBonker]

Thanks Apple and Doc. I appreciate your input on this. No Caps it then.

Apple, when you said an HC1800 will fit the stock location, are you referring to replacing the stock battery with a Kinetik HC1800? I'm assuming yes but just wanted to clarify.

Yup. It takes some work with the OEM fused distribution block, but I believe the 1800 is the largest Kinetik battery that will fit there. I think Doc at one point posted some pics of how he got his in there.

Ah, yes. Here it is

[dangeris]

Yup. It takes some work with the OEM fused distribution block, but I believe the 1800 is the largest Kinetik battery that will fit there. I think Doc at one point posted some pics of how he got his in there.

Ah, yes. Here it is

Thanks Apple. That's going to help out a lot! So what's the difference between an Optima redtop battery and the kenetic? Aside from the obvious, like CA, is that the only reason to upgrade to a Ninetik battery

[AppleBonker]

I just personally think the Kinetik is a better battery. I've just heard reviews recently that make the Kinetik power cells look like they will perform better and last longer. Guess it's just a matter of personal preference.

[dangeris]

Well for price of a Kinetik battery verses a Optima battery, they're priced about the same.

[dangeris]

bump

Also,..where's a good grounding point for the amp? Should I use the bolt that holds down the stock BOSE amp?

[AppleBonker]

bump

Also,..where's a good grounding point for the amp? Should I use the bolt that holds down the stock BOSE amp?

On the Kinetik side, if the price is about the same, I would recommend that route. I've been happy with Kinetik and I believe Doc has as well.

I think I might have grounded to that exact bolt. Make sure when you ground you sand down to get good contact with the metal body. It really doesn't matter where you ground, so just look around with the trunk trim removed. Also, you can always drill your own hole for a grounding point, just make sure you don't have anything important in the way (because drilling into the gas tank or something like that is probably not a good idea).

[dangeris]

Thanks Apple!

Well Today I ripped apart my trunk to install the low level converter (PAC-SNI-15) . I used doc's thread http://forums.altimas.org/zerothread/337113 to make the connection.

OK, this covers the entire thing, if you have the BOSE SYSTEM...

**note** this applies to the wires leaving the BOSE AMP going to the actual speakers... so these are post BOSE AMP...

KEY Right = passenger's sideLeft = Driver's Side

Front Right Tweeter + Blue/OrangeFront Right Tweeter - Green/Blue

Front Left Tweeter + LightgreenFront Left Tweeter - Black/Yellow

Center + Black/PinkCenter - Orange/Black

Front Right Door Speaker (6.5") + Green/WhiteFront Right Door SPeaker (6.5") - Brown

Front Left Door Speaker (6.5")+ WhiteFront Left Door Speaker (6.5")- Black

Rear Right Woofer (6x9) + Brown/WhiteRear Right Woofer (6x9) - BRown

Rear Left Woofer (6x9) + White/BlackRear Left Woofer (6x9) - Green/Black

Rear Right Tweeter + BlueRear Right Tweeter - Black/White

Rear Left Tweeter + BRown/BlackRear Left Tweeter - Red/Green

OK, here's the colors of the wires PRE BOSE AMP.. these are the wires you want to tap into if you want to add a high lo converter BEFORE the signal reaches the BOSE amp...

AMP ON - Black/PinkBAT - Yellow/RedSPEED SIGNAL - Violet / WHiteGround - Blue / BlackACC - Violet / Yellow

Left Front + GreenLeft Front - Red

Right Front + BlackRight Front - White

Left Rear + GR\rey/VioletLeft Rear - White/Blue

Right Rear + VioletRight Rear - Lightgreen

But when I pulled off the connectors, this is what I see. I was able to find the grey/violet tracer and white/blue tracer but there were two sets of Violet and light green wires. I'm assuming the pair of wires directly below is the right rear positive and negative. The pair directly on to the left of it, I'm assuming is the front speaker wires but the color code that Doc gave doesn't match up to what I see. As you can see below, the wires a black w/ red tracer and white w/ red tracer while Doc gave Black and White. The left Doc mentioned it was red and green but as you can see it's the same color as the right rear, violet and light green.

So moving on, I tried to identify the wires below but only found the black w/ pink which I believe is the remote wire but want to make sure.

AMP ON - Black/Pink BAT - Yellow/Red <-- didn't findSPEED SIGNAL - Violet / WHite <-- didn't findGround - Blue / Black <-- didn't findACC - Violet / Yellow <-- didn't find



The other connector

I'm trying to figure out what to connect the remote wire to.

AMP ON - Black/Pink <--is this the wire I connect the remote wire to? BAT - Yellow/Red SPEED SIGNAL - Violet / WHite Ground - Blue / Black ACC - Violet / Yellow


Modified by dangeris at 8:43 AM 10/25/2008

[LittleMan]

im an audio freak but i dont know when it comes to audio shop owners. I DJ on the side so i like quality... i have a few problems for my self and im always playing with my sound . i have a stock hu w/o bose and my stuff is still fukin up... i run all 4g wire with a cap cuz i need the 13.5 power out cuz of my amp. my stock alt is only doing 110 at 12.... My cap is ALWAYS on even when my engine is off; its the main power for my car.

[dangeris]

... i run all 4g wire with a cap cuz i need the 13.5 power out cuz of my amp. my stock alt is only doing 110 at 12.... My cap is ALWAYS on even when my engine is off; its the main power for my car.

Always on? that can't be good. doesn't that drain your battery?

[Lawsab]

I'm looking to add an LOC myself, spliced to the left and right rear speakers. I also want to splice into the ground wire and the amp on wire. All of the splicing done pre-Bose amp. So, did you ever figure out the right colored wires for your connections?

[rjdmmfl1]

DANGERIS,

I'm just seeing this thread... here's the thing..... the wires going into the amp are a bit different... that's because they pass a number of connections after they leave the head unit... the colors I gave for pre Bose Amp are the wire colors at the factory wiring harness up by the stereo... but again, by the time they get to the amp, they have passed a number of connections, and the colors change (i mentioned this in another thread and i have NO IDEA why nissan does this... if you want, i can check the FSM and get you the wire colors at the point of connection to the Bose Amp!

[dangeris]

DANGERIS,

I'm just seeing this thread... here's the thing..... the wires going into the amp are a bit different... that's because they pass a number of connections after they leave the head unit... the colors I gave for pre Bose Amp are the wire colors at the factory wiring harness up by the stereo... but again, by the time they get to the amp, they have passed a number of connections, and the colors change (i mentioned this in another thread and i have NO IDEA why nissan does this... if you want, i can check the FSM and get you the wire colors at the point of connection to the Bose Amp!

That would be great Doc! I tried hooking everything up today and the amp doesn't turn on. Funny thing is when I take a voltage meter to the and test it, I get 13.5V at the power, and 11.5 at the remote...but still nothing. Could be a bad ground. I used the bolt that was holding down the Bose amp. Maybe not a good site. Gonna tear everything out tomorrow and try again. Maybe try to get to the wire at the cig lighter. I don't know...too tired right now to even think about it. Just got back in from trick or treating with the kids...I know, it's not Halloween yet..don't ask..

[dangeris]

DANGERIS,... the colors I gave for pre Bose Amp are the wire colors at the factory wiring harness up by the stereo...

Where is this connector? Is this behind the glove box?

[AppleBonker]

Where is this connector? Is this behind the glove box?

No, he's talking about the harness that plugs directly into the OEM head unit. Basically the wires that come directly out of the stereo. I'll try to check the service manual tomorrow at work to verify colors for you if Doc doesn't get to it.

[dangeris]

Understood Apple but in opekone_1988 post http://forums.altimas.org/zerothread?id=325092, the 4th picture down shows the purple/yellow wire. Looks like the connector was located behind the glove box ...
Modified by dangeris at 6:50 AM 10/31/2008

[rjdmmfl1]

Understood Apple but in opekone_1988 post http://forums.altimas.org/zerothread?id=325092, the 4th picture down shows the purple/yellow wire. Looks like the connector was located behind the glove box ...

No, there's about 10 connections between the beginning of the harness and those brown harnesses that plug into the Bose Amp

Dangeris, the answer to your question lies on page 374 in the AV portion of the Field service manual...

here is the wire colors at the point of the Bose amp....

AMP ON - Black/Green (larger brown connector)

Battery - Brown & Black/Red (smaller brown connector)

Speed Signal - Not at the Bose Amp, up at the factory radio wiring harness

Ground- Black/Blue (smaller brown connector)

ACC- not at bose amp

rear right + ... light green (larger brown connector)

rear right -... violet(larger brown connector)

rear left +... brown (larger brown connector)

rear left -... yellow (larger brown connector)

this is all at the amp looking at those two brown connectors which are labeled B121 and B122 in the FSM respectively

Sorry if I wasn't specific enough in my stickied post

[dangeris]

Thanks Doc! I guess I'll be re-wiring everything tomorrow. It's suppose to be beautiful so why not. At least I was able to run the power cable and that was the hardest part so far. I'll Let you guys know how I make out!

BTW.. What's the difference between AMP ON and the ACC? Since you posted the wire for the battery, wouldn't these be same as remote?
Modified by dangeris at 3:03 PM 10/31/2008

[AppleBonker]

BTW.. What's the difference between AMP ON and the ACC? Since you posted the wire for the battery, wouldn't these be same as remote?

Doc wins on the looking at the manual race.

The amp on and ACC are not the same. When your car is set to ACC on, this does not mean the radio has to be on. The amp on wire only sends a voltage when the radio is actually on. You wouldn't want to use the ACC wire, because then the amp would be on whenever the car was set to ACC on, regardless of the radio being on or not.

[dangeris]

OK,..rewired everything and still freakijng nothing. The amp doesn't even turn on I checked and double checked my connections. When I put a meter on the amp with the black probe on the ground, I pull 12v on the remote and 13.5 on the battery. I even re-grounded the ground wire to the bolt that holds down the seat belt!. Am I missing something?

Also I printed out the page 374 of the AV FSM and compared it to what I have. Luckily, I had already connected the remote wire to black/green wire on PIN 60 of the B121 connector..check now to the speaker "IN" wires. On the FSM this is what it calls out:

PIN63 -Yellow RR LH - INPIN64 - Brown RR LH + INPIN65 - Violet RR RH - INPIN66 - Light Green RR RH + IN

However, when I look at the connector, Nissan used different color wire on PIN 63 and 64

[AppleBonker]

Did you verify conductivity to ground? You've obviously got power and the turn on should be good, so I'm concerned about the ground. Use your multimeter and check the resistivity from the ground terminal on the amp to the body of the car (it should read zero). This should be your first step. Let's make sure we can get the amp turned on.

[dangeris]

Did you verify conductivity to ground? You've obviously got power and the turn on should be good, so I'm concerned about the ground. Use your multimeter and check the resistivity from the ground terminal on the amp to the body of the car (it should read zero). This should be your first step. Let's make sure we can get the amp turned on.

Yup Just checked that I get Zero when I put one probe to the bolt where the ground is and the other probe to a near by bolt, or to the body itself, and to the distant end of the ground wire. They all read Zero. I even tried it buy putting the one probe to the near by bolt and touching the other parts that I mentioned. All Zero! It's gotta be a bad amp. what do you guys think?

[rjdmmfl1]

Yup Just checked that I get Zero when I put one probe to the bolt where the ground is and the other probe to a near by bolt, or to the body itself, and to the distant end of the ground wire. They all read Zero. I even tried it buy putting the one probe to the near by bolt and touching the other parts that I mentioned. All Zero! It's gotta be a bad amp. what do you guys think?

I think i would just run the wires from front to back, and use the color scheme on the factory harness up by the radio.... for the record, nissan sucks for its ridiculous color schemed wires!

[dangeris]

I'm with ya Doc, they do suck but can someone tell me where that connector is located up front? Is it behind the glovebox. I was looking at the AV FSM manual today but couldn't find where that connector is exactly located. If I did, I'd be running my LLC from up front all the way to the back.

Also, I benched tested the amp to a spare auto battery that I had laying around and still nothing. Then I found another amp that I had laying around and that powered on. Now I have to wait for a stupid RMA.