Running Lean

[Mustangs_Suck]

Ok..well I just got back and changed the plugs....the backfire seems to of gone away, but I took it out on the street and gave it a little more stress, than just normal everyday driving. Needless to say - the blue smoke is back - nothing is leaking, and again nothing popped..so idk what's up and why it's back. My old plugs were black as ****.

My idle is kinda bad too...it stays at around 8-900 like normal..but then every 10 sec. or so it'll sputter and start to drop below 500, and then back up to normal.

So..the blue smoke is back, and my idle is still not so great...but the backfire's have seemed to go away....idk what's causing the smoke now .

[Mustangs_Suck]

Ick...well i removed my brand new spark plugs (only have about 5 min. of driving on them) and they are pretty black already....

Oh and when i started it back up - no blue smoke...steady idle...so it just seems then when everything gets warmed up the smoke comes out and the idle gets more irratic.

I really don't think the fan on my car is operating. I have a gigantic FMIC and the stock radiator, my engine temp is always at cold, so I think that dumb indicator isn't working..much like my speedo. My question is, would the FMIC really be able to keep the engine that cold by itself? My fan never turns on...I'm starting think this thing is going to become an electrical mess. *sigh*

I really wish there was someone down by me that knew what they are doing. I know basics..and turbo/fuel management etc etc is not basic....I know I'll eventually learn it, but I don't want my engine to blow up in the process

and to top it all off, my reverse lights stay on unless I unplug them lol.

Modified by Mustangs_Suck at 7:55 PM 5/7/2005
Modified by Mustangs_Suck at 8:07 PM 5/7/2005

[WDRacing]

For the record, black smoke is fuel, blue is oil and white is water.

I'm on the way out the door, I'll be back tonight to assist in the troubleshooting.

[Mustangs_Suck]

For the record, black smoke is fuel, blue is oil and white is water.

I'm on the way out the door, I'll be back tonight to assist in the troubleshooting.

Well the shop said I may have some leaks, so they put in a product that seals up those leaks or whatever. No oil ends up on the ground, that's all I know - so if there's something leaking, it's inside. And the smoke is most definitley blue. The soot on the Spark Plugs is black...which probably means detonation or something of the sort.

Thank ya - I appreciate it

This thing will probably just wind up back in a shop. Hopefully I can find a place that can do wideband tuning, and they'll be able to run through some of my wires to get that garbage working again...as I am not gonna dig around taking gauge clusters and all the b.s. off to do this....just way too much of a headache.

[nil5]

Well the shop said I may have some leaks, so they put in a product that seals up those leaks or whatever. No oil ends up on the ground, that's all I know - so if there's something leaking, it's inside. And the smoke is most definitley blue. The soot on the Spark Plugs is black...which probably means detonation or something of the sort.

I've been lurking and reading your strife.

Am I the only one here to think this might be a failing ring land or something? Have you done a compression test?

Good luck, and don't let the shop screw you over! You can solve most anything with a little effort and the right tools

edit: i dunno how much a sealant is going to help if your pistons are failing...
Modified by nil5 at 2:41 PM 5/7/2005

[Mustangs_Suck]

I've been lurking and reading your strife.

Am I the only one here to think this might be a failing ring land or something? Have you done a compression test?

Good luck, and don't let the shop screw you over! You can solve most anything with a little effort and the right tools

edit: i dunno how much a sealant is going to help if your pistons are failing...

Yeah...it's in the back of my mind, but if it's true i'm going to flip my lid...so that's why i'm kinda just ignoring the thought right now heh.

The car pulls strong, and sounds good, so i'm also kinda thinking it's not anything wrong internal wise...but then again - i have no idea if bad rings/piston failure would give any indications until *boom*

and no I haven't gotten a comp. test done yet..I suppose I should soon.

[nil5]

definitely do a compression test. it's not hard and i think the tool is cheap. a lot cheaper than rebuilding your turbo. you might want to see if there's oil in there?

here's what i'm thinkin:burning oil => oil in the exhaust manifold => { (1) from turbine, (2) combustion chamber }

(1) => bad turbo(2) => bad piston/rings seal

logical enough?

[Mustangs_Suck]

definitely do a compression test. it's not hard and i think the tool is cheap. a lot cheaper than rebuilding your turbo. you might want to see if there's oil in there?

here's what i'm thinkin:burning oil => oil in the exhaust manifold => { (1) from turbine, (2) combustion chamber }

(1) => bad turbo(2) => bad piston/rings seal

logical enough?

yup, seems logical....seems if the turbo was blown, there'd be smoke coming from the engine bay - my last turbo was blown, and smoke would come out of the hood because of it...there is NO smoke from under the hood now, and the turbo pulls/boosts wonderfully...so with my luck, if it isn't just all in the tuning - it's gonna be number 2 which will probably make me sell the car, and end up losing over $10000 on it, which would ultimately lead to me jumping off a cliff.

[nil5]

...so with my luck, if it isn't just all in the tuning - it's gonna be number 2 which will probably make me sell the car, and end up losing over $10000 on it, which would ultimately lead to me jumping off a cliff.

ah don't give up dude. You can get that engine rebuilt (sturdy) for at the most $4k. And I'm talking better cams, valves, rods, pistons, the whole enchilada. If you're minimal, you could probably do it for under 2 grand. a lot of money, but way better than quitting. Anyway, you don't know if you need that, yet, since you haven't done the comp test. Now get to it and post the results so we can help you further!

[nissanfanatic]

Pull off the intake pipe coming right off of the compressor. Look for oil.

For the record, surpassing 13:1 AF ratio will prolly lead to a dead engine. If you make it to 14.7:1, you will melt a piston for sure. 14.7:1 is where cylinder temps are highest. Pre-ignition is inevitable.

[Structure240sx]

the black spark plugs means you are runnign very rich. you want them to be a brown color.

possible that running so rich is taking the oil off the cylinder and burning it up

[Mustangs_Suck]

the black spark plugs means you are runnign very rich. you want them to be a brown color.

possible that running so rich is taking the oil off the cylinder and burning it up

how am I running rich when I have all Lo setting -27 and all Hi setting's at 0 except for 3000 and 4000 where it is -5 ???

Any other suggestions for me to set my SAFC for...or is getting a wideband tune really the only thing that will help cure this problem?

[Mustangs_Suck]

ah don't give up dude. You can get that engine rebuilt (sturdy) for at the most $4k. And I'm talking better cams, valves, rods, pistons, the whole enchilada. If you're minimal, you could probably do it for under 2 grand. a lot of money, but way better than quitting. Anyway, you don't know if you need that, yet, since you haven't done the comp test. Now get to it and post the results so we can help you further!

I suppose so...I've dumped too much into this to just sell it or give up. Just sucks I spent $6600 on it, and was made to believe it was all in good condition, and ONLY needed a tuning. I've spent over $10500 on it now, and I still have some wire quirks to straighten out, need a new suspension, still need the tuning, have a vacuum leak somewhere, and new brakes.

Not having a job isn't helping - I have $1500 left before the loan I took out has been maxxed out..so I need to spend this last amount I have wisely - it's gonna go to tuning, vacuum leaks, and the misc. wire quirks...everything else will have to wait....I need a car to go to some interviews, and right now - this car isn't helping ...I'm just kinda stuck.

[Mustangs_Suck]

Pull off the intake pipe coming right off of the compressor. Look for oil.

For the record, surpassing 13:1 AF ratio will prolly lead to a dead engine. If you make it to 14.7:1, you will melt a piston for sure. 14.7:1 is where cylinder temps are highest. Pre-ignition is inevitable.

Well if i'm running rich, not lean as I was told, hopefully I never reached those AF ratios....a dead engine would completely **** me over at this point.

[Mustangs_Suck]

Hmm..the smoke looked alot whiter today after I drove it around for awhile. Smoke comes out of exhaust for like a min. after the car is turned off - anything a clogged cat would be causing? As I said the cat was an older one, so who knows what's in there. The vacuum leak i have is still pretty bad heh....the shop said they found about 4 vacuum lines that lead to nowhere, and the diagram was too difficult for them to make any sense out of it : At least they fixed a good handful of em...

[Structure240sx]

not a good idea to go into debt to build a car, personally no offense i just would never take out a loan to build up a car

what are you HOTWIRE in/out settings on the safc? and also if you got into the HI thr map by going over 30% that will make you run very rich with those settings

[Mustangs_Suck]

Well, the smallest loan the bank would give me was 12K

I wanted the car - it was 6k to buy and $895 to ship.

So i figured i had about 5k in "emergency funds" just in case.

Just so happens i get screwed over on the car...and now I get to use up the rest of the money I had on my loan (which I planned on never taking out...'cuz I didn't want to up my monthly payments) to fix all the b.s. the *** hole seller told me was in "good" condition, but in reality - was all broken. My fault for trusting someone..I know I'll never make that mistake again...it's too bad I have to learn my lesson by going into debt, but there's nothing I can do.

As for my Hotwire settings - in & out are both 5

The in & out settings for the other two are all 1.

Hi TH point setting is 35%

[Mustangs_Suck]

Also it looks like I'm going to end up going to Dynotuned Performance.

Located in Madison - about 1 and 1/2 hr. drive from my house. They have a in ground dyno jet with wideband. They also install turbo kits, do basic maintanence, motor swaps, etc etc. So it looks like they might be the right place to go to, to fix all my tuning issues, vac. leaks, and a couple wire/sensor quirks i'm having.

Funny thing is, is my 2nd 240 I owned (this one is my 3rd) I bought from one of the people that work at Dynotuned - ironic.

[Mustangs_Suck]

Sweet, I just talked to one of the guys that works there. He just put a SR20 in his 240 - and he said he's going to have a ECU chip-set ready for me when I get there - as he hasn't been able to do it to his SR'd 240 yet, but would love to have a tuner car to try it out on, to see how it goes together $75/hr labor isn't bad either compared to other shops I've found around here...So i think I just found a good shop that'll know what to do

He said it sounds like my valve seal went bad - common when you turbo NA motors, since the smoke only comes after the car warms up...so I'm hopin' that's the cause for my oil leakage - not my rings.

Anyways - lmk what I should set those last few things on my SAFC to when ya get the chance - I greatly appreciate all your help

[nissanfanatic]

Yea I woudln't borrow money to build a car either. Kinda takes the "hobby" part out of it for me and makes me feel much more pressed to get it right. Being my daily driver presses me enough with my car.

Get them to do a few things while you're there. Leak-down test, Fuel pressure test, ect. All the stuff we stated in the thread. Good luck.

[foley]

How many miles are on this thing? Another possible source of burning oil is bad valve seals. Luckily a pretty easy fix if that's your problem, but it's usually a problem induced by high mileage / lots of revs on the car.

How many miles were on the turbo you bought? Do you have an oil flow restrictor installed on the turbo supply line?

You could have a bad cartridge seal, or too much oil pressure pushing oil past the seal into the exhaust housing

[Mustangs_Suck]

Yea I woudln't borrow money to build a car either. Kinda takes the "hobby" part out of it for me and makes me feel much more pressed to get it right. Being my daily driver presses me enough with my car.

Get them to do a few things while you're there. Leak-down test, Fuel pressure test, ect. All the stuff we stated in the thread. Good luck.

again I didn't borrow money to build a car. I bought the car like this, the smallest loan available to me was twice what the price of the car was. It was either take a loan out for 12K or take no loan out at all. I never planned using any money more than I initially needed to buy the car - but I got lied to by a prick, and am stuck with fixing all this ****.

I'll have em do compression test, tuning, full inspection, vac. leak fixings, possible Chipping my ECU, fixing my electrical quirks, and running it on the dyno if they can get it running 100% and have time

[Mustangs_Suck]

How many miles are on this thing? Another possible source of burning oil is bad valve seals. Luckily a pretty easy fix if that's your problem, but it's usually a problem induced by high mileage / lots of revs on the car.

How many miles were on the turbo you bought? Do you have an oil flow restrictor installed on the turbo supply line?

You could have a bad cartridge seal, or too much oil pressure pushing oil past the seal into the exhaust housing

104k and yup - that's exactly what the guy at the shop said when I talked to him today - he said it sounds like bad valve seals...which would be great (compared to bad rings).

Idk how many miles are on the turbo - it was used with little to no shaft play..so it's doing well, and no - no oil restrictor - I'll have the shop do a quick installation of that too..as I know it's important.

[Mustangs_Suck]

not a good idea to go into debt to build a car, personally no offense i just would never take out a loan to build up a car

what are you HOTWIRE in/out settings on the safc? and also if you got into the HI thr map by going over 30% that will make you run very rich with those settings

Hey...just wondering if my Hotwire settings are ok?? I'm making a 1 and a half hr. drive with this thing tomorrow, and want my SAFC to be as good as i can get it...lemme know if/when ya can.

As i said in a few posts up In & Out are both 5 and my Hi TH point is 35%

[Structure240sx]

yes that is what they should be with the stock maf

on the dec.air setting try setting the ne1 point to 1.0 to see if that helps the black spark plug problem at all

[Mustangs_Suck]

yes that is what they should be with the stock maf

on the dec.air setting try setting the ne1 point to 1.0 to see if that helps the black spark plug problem at all

alrighty, will do - thank ya much

[Mustangs_Suck]

Well the NE1 point was at 1.3% (for the dec. air). I turned it down to 1.0% and the car just died...I put it up to 1.2% and it idled roughly, and when I took it for a drive, there was ALOT of power being heldback, and popping noises...I put it back up to the 1.3% and it was better, but not great. 1.5% idled pretty highly, but ran good. 1.4% seems to be great. steadly even 900 idle, and no power loses/popping when driving...so it seems turning that up a notch made it run better. I will leave it as is right now. I decided to take it up past 4500 again to see if anything's changed - still loses all power, I just hear the turbo spin, and the BOV blow off, but the car just kinda stands still...so it needs to be tuned desperately.

Hopefully tomorrow when I leave, I'll make it to Madison safe and sound, and it'll leave running like a champ.

[240SicknessX]

do you have an atmospherically vented bov? if you dont have your air decel settings adjusted correctly for an atmospherically vented bov then it would promote a rich condition and could lead to the car stalling or running rich, maybe that poping sound that you describe at 2k. when you let off the throttle

[Mustangs_Suck]

do you have an atmospherically vented bov? if you dont have your air decel settings adjusted correctly for an atmospherically vented bov then it would promote a rich condition and could lead to the car stalling or running rich, maybe that poping sound that you describe at 2k. when you let off the throttle

hmm, good question. I have a blitz BOV..that's all I know.

[Mustangs_Suck]

Alright...I just got back from the tuning shop.

I was running a 14.5:1 AF ratio. They've set it down to 12.5:1 and it's running much better.

I got a compression test and piston's #1 & 3 were 140, #2 & 4 were 150, so my engine is doing just fine.

It made 200rwhp and 205rwtq.

It started running hotter, so the numbers died off into the 180-190 range after that.

They are going to be fixing the few electrical quirks I have, and then looking to see if anything's leaking the oil. They'll also be rigging my fan up, so it works, and they'll run it again on the dyno..so hopefully the numbers will stay 200 range, and maybe go a little bit higher. It might stay in the 180-190's range though, since they got the AF ratio's turned down...he said I'll lose a little bit performance, but I'll have it so I won't lose an engine - which is much more important .

This is at the stock 7psi...unfortunatley, I don't have a boost controller, but it's probably for the best..I don't need to start upping the boost yet, I need to start paying it off hehe.

Thanks for all your help everyone - I've greatly appreciated it Looks like everything's gonna work out for me in the end