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[RobPaulson]

way to fail, ignorant consumers who want the performance of a $600 device out of a $50 contract phone

FTFY

[ADDirishboy]

Even if those lower end phones had 2.2, they wouldn't be close to the performance of the phones you or I have. I guess it is just business. They need people to keep buying phones, so they make some not available for upgrades. Understandable.

[PoorManQ45]

Huh, I didn't realize there were that many phones still running 1.5 and 1.6. Seems stupid. Way to fail Android.

It's not Android. It's usually the manufacturer of the phone, or the service provider.

Like the Cliq. Motorola refuses to release drivers. So it has been like pulling teeth to get 2.1 on it. The Cliq officially has 1.5 on it...

One thing that annoys me about the new generation of Android devices is that the hardware has been beefed up, but the battery size has remained close to the same. This leads to horrible battery life.

[RobPaulson]

no they dont release the upgraded OS's for those devices because the hardware is not supported for them.

there are performance bottle necks around every corner in the situation of an upgrade like that. not to mention, stuff like wifi hotspots and tethering wouldnt work. so much limited functionality, for so much QA resources on googles(or the hardware manufacturer, depending on the contracts) part, for such a limited customer base who doesnt care enough, just doesnt add up to a realistic business situation.

wifi capability, LED usage, screen resolution(which would branch out to a whole nother situation all on its own, imagine resolution being an issue in basically every single screen/application on the device), GPS functionality, camera quality

wait did that make sense? bah

[MinisterofDOOM]

Even if those lower end phones had 2.2, they wouldn't be close to the performance of the phones you or I have. I guess it is just business. They need people to keep buying phones, so they make some not available for upgrades. Understandable.

Actually, 2.2 is EXACTLY what a lot of older phones need for a performance boost, thanks largely to the JIT compiler.
People run 2.2 on hacked G1s with no major problems. The G1 doesn't like flash and active wallpapers, but most everything else works great.]

It's not Android. It's usually the manufacturer of the phone, or the service provider.

Exactly. The Nexus one gets updates fast because it's directly Google-controlled. Every other phone gets delayed updates because the updates have to be run through the service provider, or the manufacturer (or both). Most phones these days have some sort of skin on top of Android. And before the provider can release the latest Android update, they have to update their own skin to work without issue. That takes time. Carriers also like adding bloatware (like the amazon mp3 store) which takes time.

no they dont release the upgraded OS's for those devices because the hardware is not supported for them.

there are performance bottle necks around every corner in the situation of an upgrade like that. not to mention, stuff like wifi hotspots and tethering wouldnt work. so much limited functionality

Actually, that's not true at all. The ONLY phone with anything resembling a hardware bottleneck when it comes to post 1.6 is the G1, and that hardware bottleneck is really just a data partition. Once that partition is reallocated, the device runs 2.2 just fine (with the above restrictions). It's NOT a hardware compatibility issue. It's a laziness and "we can get away with not updating" issue. EVERY PHONE OUT THERE could be made to work with 2.2 with little or no work. And all would benefit from most of the features.
Blame lies with the service providers and nowhere else.

[RobPaulson]

Actually, that's not true at all. The ONLY phone with anything resembling a hardware bottleneck when it comes to post 1.6 is the G1, and that hardware bottleneck is really just a data partition. Once that partition is reallocated, the device runs 2.2 just fine (with the above restrictions). It's NOT a hardware compatibility issue. It's a laziness and "we can get away with not updating" issue. EVERY PHONE OUT THERE could be made to work with 2.2 with little or no work. And all would benefit from most of the features.
Blame lies with the service providers and nowhere else.

interesting, i'll admit i was making assumptions just cause i've only ever researched performance issues and such in regards to my N1, i always just figured the lesser/older devices, given the seemingly outdated hardware, would have issues running smoothly with an OS developed on a hardware platform like the N1.

im curious about your statement about the data partition though, is it like a swap space that needs to be extended to allow more free virtual memory?

[AppleBonker]

That didn't sound conceited at all ^

[RobPaulson]

That didn't sound conceited at all ^

oh i realized, i was a smidge away from actually adding this... maybe i'll put it here...

"ha that was rather self centered, oh well, my phone's the shiznit."

[Alfador]

Like Doom said, the problem is that for almost every device on the market the OS gets tweaked by the carrier or the manufacturer before it gets pushed to the device. Aside from the Nexus One, the Droid is pretty much the only one left that don't have some kind of custom UI slapped onto Android. For some reason even it doesn't get direct push, which I'm guessing is a Verizon thing.

Speaking of which, Froyo just dropped on my Droid while I was making this post, which is hilarious because I have zero reception sitting here.

I think the key thing to remember though is, why would they update pre-2.0 devices when the feature gap is a pretty huge motivator to buy a new phone and burn an upgrade.

[AppleBonker]

It's all good. It is one of the pitfalls of the Android OS (the vast number of manufacturers and hardware setups - nearly impossible to be familiar with them all). As MoD said, with so many different manufacturers all using different skins, the ball truly is in their court. I wish more would just provide vanilla Android to the phones, since most of their skins suck anyway. Then again, I'm pretty sure Verizon/T-Mobile/Sprint/AT&T would be pretty pissed if the ability to setup wireless hot spots and/or tether data was an option simply in the software. They really want to keep their hands in the cookie jar, if you will, so there is definitely some incentive their to adjust the phone's OS to limit some (what should be) default capabilities.

Seriously providers, $20-30/month just to use the data I'M ALREADY PAYING FOR on my computer rather than on my cell phone?

Edit: Guess I took too long typing ^. Moto did adjust some of the code before pushing your Froyo update through. For example, I'm pretty sure you can't setup a wifi hot spot. They will claim it is a hardware issue (though users with rooted droids running custom roms have been doing this for a little while now), but the fact is they want you to upgrade. Even though the phone is perfectly capable, it's easier to tell the average consumer, "sorry, your phone can't do that, but the new Droid X and Droid 2 can".

[PoorManQ45]

I think the key thing to remember though is, why would they update pre-2.0 devices when the feature gap is a pretty huge motivator to buy a new phone and burn an upgrade.

Not sure what features you're referring to. Please define.

I find it hilarious that a lot of service providers stripped out the tethering features and claimed that the device couldn't handle it.

It's all a scam. Most providers have some sort of tethering package that they try to charge you $20 a month for!

[Alfador]

I think the key thing to remember though is, why would they update pre-2.0 devices when the feature gap is a pretty huge motivator to buy a new phone and burn an upgrade.

Not sure what features you're referring to. Please define.

I find it hilarious that a lot of service providers stripped out the tethering features and claimed that the device couldn't handle it.

It's all a scam. Most providers have some sort of tethering package that they try to charge you $20 a month for!

Just the general addition of features to the OS. Things like enhanced digital zoom, multitouch, exchange support. I think live wallpapers and a lot of the browser enhancements came in 2.0/2.1 as well. The gap in features between 1.x and 2.x is huge. The stuff added in 2.2 widens that gap even further. It's the kind of stuff that makes people want to upgrade. In the carriers' minds, if they gave that stuff to your phone, they don't get their 2 year contract extension from you buying a new phone.


As for people who complain about having to pay for tether, it's a hell of a lot different than a cell phone. The kind of traffic people drive on a laptop is almost always more intense and of a higher data volume, and it stresses the network just a little more. It's really no different than the fact that when you sign up for home broadband you agree in the contract not to run any kind of server over it.

[AppleBonker]

I call BS. While running a laptop/netbook/tablet/etc off your phones cellular data will certainly stress the network more, all of these network providers are switching to tiered data plans. This means the amount of data I can consume is capped. They can't have their cake and eat it to. Either give me truly unlimited data and not charge for tethering, or cap my data and don't charge for tethering. If I want to chew through my plan's cap in two days and not use it for the remainder of the month, that should be my choice. In theory, both of these restrictions will achieve the same goal. Sure, if there was a cap and no charge for tethering, if EVERYONE decided to burn through their allotted data at he exact same time every month it would cripple the network. But the odds of that happening are slim.

I get slightly peeved when an ISP tells me how much data I can use. But I understand why (especially on the mobile front). But if you're already telling me how much I can use, I will not happily accept you telling me how I can use it.

[Alfador]

I don't see a problem with it. It's an extra feature, and you pay extra for it. If you want to boycott them go ahead, and if you want to tether anyway (with an android phone it's not hard to break that barrier, and people having been doing it for a while now), go for it. They won't notice unless you get excessive but if you do they'll probably cut you off completely.

[PoorManQ45]

I don't see a problem with it. It's an extra feature, and you pay extra for it. If you want to boycott them go ahead, and if you want to tether anyway (with an android phone it's not hard to break that barrier, and people having been doing it for a while now), go for it. They won't notice unless you get excessive but if you do they'll probably cut you off completely.

The problem is that Google designed Eclair, 2.2, to have Wifi tether built into it. The Service providers choose to remove this feature from the OS. Then they claim that the device's hardware couldn't handle it. But in turn they then turn around and offer an "Extra feature" for a fee that gives you the ability to wirelessly tether!

*edit* I love tmobile. Last month I transferred over 10GB while tethering. No limit FTMFW!!!

[AppleBonker]

if you want to tether anyway (with an android phone it's not hard to break that barrier, and people having been doing it for a while now), go for it

Seeing as I have minimal experience with most of these phones, I may be incorrect. However, I believe this would require running custom roms (to wifi tether or create a hot spot). Some phones do not have this capability.

And, based off PMQ's statement, how is it possible that one of the carriers with a less impressive infrastructure can handle the abuse but AT&T and Verizon cannot?

[MinisterofDOOM]

im curious about your statement about the data partition though, is it like a swap space that needs to be extended to allow more free virtual memory?

Nope, it's even dumber than that. Lack of foresight on the Dream (G1, first Android device) left the phone with an OS partition that's too small for newer Android updates. It was actually even too small for 1.6 but that was made to work officially. Anyone hacking 2.2 onto their G1 has to repartition the system ROM to allow for the larger OS install. If an official 2.1+ update were to roll out for the G1, it couldn't be done OTA because of that lack of memory, so it would have to be a factory-reset install via USB. Which would be less appealing to many users than being stuck on 1.6.

Seeing as I have minimal experience with most of these phones, I may be incorrect. However, I believe this would require running custom roms (to wifi tether or create a hot spot). Some phones do not have this capability.

Oh, no. Nowhere near that complicated. Even stock phones can share their connection. There are apps on the market that allow tethering without even rooting your phone.

[AppleBonker]

Tethering, ok. But what about creating a wifi hotspot? And thanks for the first-hand experience/explanation.

Edit: my apologies for completely sidetracking this thread...

[MinisterofDOOM]

But what about creating a wifi hotspot?

Remember, Wifi's a two-way communication. If you can receive, you can broadcast. Half that capability is pointless. Any wifi-enabled phone can be set up as a wifi hotspot as long as you've got software to drive it.

[Warped161]

did i somehow end up in the xda forum? I just want 2.1 to come out for my xperia x10. Also the manufacturers software almost always chokes the crap out of the phone, hacked roms ftw. My htc ran like a bat outa hell without that touchflo crap at&t put on it.

[AZhitman]

[dopplganger1]

yes that would be great

[RobPaulson]

did i somehow end up in the xda forum?

[AppleBonker]

as long as you've got software to drive it.

Isn't that the problem, though? I'll admit I am completely unfamiliar with the Android Marketplace (seeing as I don't have an Android device yet), but is this sort of thing readily available? I thought the service providers and/or manufacturer had some ability to lock out certain applications (hence the root being required). If that isn't the case, what is the purpose of rooting other than removing the terrible skins that are slapped on all these phones?

Edit: Greg, we're taking over the world. Watch out...

[Alfador]

Wifi hotspot is just the same as USB tethering. Both of them are more or less built into the OS, and it''s really just a matter of getting an app or rom to unlock it. As for rooting, sometimes it is just a means of getting rid of an ugly skin. People seem to confuse the term a bit. Rooting is just getting superuser access (consider it getting an administrator account on windows).

Just because a phone is rooted doesn't mean it's unlocked for custom roms. It just means you've got access to do some things like remove the bloatware apps and enable some locked features.

[PoorManQ45]

Wifi hotspot is just the same as USB tethering. Both of them are more or less built into the OS, and it''s really just a matter of getting an app or rom to unlock it.

Unfortunately Service Providers have gone so far as to remove the portions of the Kernel that even support tethering!

There is an app called PDAbox or something like that that started on the BlackBerry, but it is really limited and only works for port 80 traffic.

Rooting, as you said, will grant you Superuser access. With this you can pretty much do anything you'd like. This typically includes removing programs that are installed in the system folder(this is where they install the bloatware), completely customizing the appearance(not just basic themes), changing to a completely different ROM, and much more.

[C-Kwik]

There is an app called PDAbox or something like that that started on the BlackBerry, but it is really limited and only works for port 80 traffic.

I think the app your referring to is PDAnet. It works pretty well. Though, it costs $20 or so if you want full access after the trial period is done, at which point the only limitation is supposed to be secure websites.

[PoorManQ45]

There is an app called PDAbox or something like that that started on the BlackBerry, but it is really limited and only works for port 80 traffic.

I think the app your referring to is PDAnet. It works pretty well. Though, it costs $20 or so if you want full access after the trial period is done, at which point the only limitation is supposed to be secure websites.

That's thee one!

$20 sucks though!

[Alfador]

Wifi hotspot is just the same as USB tethering. Both of them are more or less built into the OS, and it''s really just a matter of getting an app or rom to unlock it.

Unfortunately Service Providers have gone so far as to remove the portions of the Kernel that even support tethering!

There is an app called PDAbox or something like that that started on the BlackBerry, but it is really limited and only works for port 80 traffic.

Rooting, as you said, will grant you Superuser access. With this you can pretty much do anything you'd like. This typically includes removing programs that are installed in the system folder(this is where they install the bloatware), completely customizing the appearance(not just basic themes), changing to a completely different ROM, and much more.

For phones that will never have it, yes. But if you have a phone that is able to do it if you signed up, it is fully there, on the phone, locked, an can be unlocked without having to ghetto rig it too badly. It's kind of like windows (to a lesser extent of course). In windows all the features of pro/ultimate are there when you buy home, but they are locked on the OS until you enter the license key for the higher version. Much the same way, an HTC Incredible or Moto Droid has this on it, in the code, all along, just "locked." Signing up for the $30 unlocks the service, with no additional installs needed.

[C-Kwik]

That's thee one!

$20 sucks though!

Free is always nice of course, but $20 one time is a lot better than $20 per month. I have heard one can use the trial version through a proxy and get full access without the $20 license.