Redesigned Pathfinder

[Timmbo]

I think anyway we look at it, this will be a success for Nissan. They will sell a lot more of the new Pathfinder then the old one. All personal opinions aside, this is truly what Nissan needs to remain competitive. There is no question about it. I did a lot of towing with both my '03 Murano and my '09 Murano. The CVT tows extremely well and very smooth with simply AMAZING gas mileage while towing. I was quite impressed and I never had one issue. Truly they have a fabulous CVT warranty to back it up, so really nothing to worry about.

[yeldogt]

The current pathfinder is too big -- I'm not sure what Nissan is up to. The R50 and it variants were sold all over the world -- it was a nice size and very durable (removing the rust issue). Having a crossover FWD is not going to cut it for those that need a more robust vehicle. I had Grand Cherokees in the early 90's and switched to Pathfinders in 2002 because both of our 98 GC were junk -- the 94's were fantastic. The GC was a great size and the early ones with the V8's were better than the R50's The Xterra was always intended to be a cheaper vehicle than the Pathfinder. I guess the 4Runners will have an edge.

[Timmbo]

This is a direction Nissan needs to take with the Pathfinder. There is no question about it. There is no denying the success of the newer Nissans. The new Pathfinder is no different, and Nissan will have great success with the new design. They will sell more Pathfinders with this change.

Now, as I said, I personally do prefer the current Pathfinder, but there is the Xterra and the Frontier. There is not longer a need to have the Pathfinder in the mix as well.

[kerrton]

I agree Timmbo, and the underlying issue really is the need to drastically increase efficiency across the entire line to a) keep up with the competition and continue to sell vehicles as drivers expect more and more all the time and b) to comply with much stricter Federal efficiency requirements. Nissan really had no choice, the decision to go with a "crossover" design was their only option. Perhaps the Xterra will get a solid redesign in an effort to win back angry Pathfinder fans......

[yeldogt]

I guess ......... the question .......... What is a Pathfinder?

The Murano is a nice vehicle ..... but how many crossovers do they need ? Toyota still makes the 4runner --- and they sell a lot of them. Then again ........they sell even more hybrids.

[Buzzman]

Perhaps the Xterra will get a solid redesign in an effort to win back angry Pathfinder fans......

That is an excellent thought.
I don't know a lot about the Xterra, never even having driven one, but from the looks of it, it could fill the void left by the demise of the R50/51.
I've sat in one in the showroom, and it felt an awful lot like my '02 Pathfinder.
Maybe if Nisan spent a few bucks beefing it up and modernizing it, they'd have a winner.
I don't see it costing them much either.
Are you listening Nissan?

[Timmbo]

Actually, if you jump into a Pro-4x Xterra, it is a pretty sweet ride. You get off road lights mounted up on the roof rack, and a lot of sweet off road features, even hill decent control. Pro-4x has white face gauges, leather seats with red stitching, and Pro-4x embroidered in the front seats. Back seat has a lot of room in it because of the raised roof. More room and a nicer second row then the current Pathfinder. If it were my decision, I would add dual zone heating, heated seats, navigation option, and keyless start and you have a real winner. (keep in mind virtually every vehicle in the line up has the option for Nav and Keyless start with the exception of the Xterra and Frontier.

The engine is truly a great powerplant in the Xterra at 261hp with a lot of torque. Fuel economy is on par with what one would expect.

[kerrton]

Not to mention I've always loved the look of the Xterra, it looks like a true offroad vehicle and it's pretty unique. If you agree that the Pathfinder "Died" in 2004 when it made the transition to a 3-row family vehicle, then maybe the 2013 redesign isn't that shocking afterall. Some of the diehard offroad enthusists will likely move to the Xterra and the family-oriented people who are too cool for minivans will move in to the Pathfinder forum.....

[Timmbo]

Hey, you can always go to an Armada! Pretty much same MPG as the current Pathy, and a ton more room. Works awesome for my family!

[philipa_240sx]

Honestly, the new Pathfinder concept does not surprise me. Nissan has to do something to reverse the trend. The market for mid-sized SUV's has been steadily dropping for years now, you can blame high gas prices and changing consumer tastes for this one. Consumers are demanding more softer CUV's with better fuel economy.

Look at the North American sales figures:

The Pathfinder sold only 25,935 units in 2011.
The Rogue by itself sold 124,543 units in 2011, that almost HALF of Nissan's overall truck sales (332,993 units)! Ok, the Rogue is NOT a truck in the purest sense nor is it an off-roader. But it does show how consumer tastes have leaned towards crossover vehicles in a big way.

Going back further, Pathfinder sales have been dropping steadily for years now:

Pathfinder CY2010: 21,438
Pathfinder CY2009: 18,341
Pathfinder CY2008: 33,555
Pathfinder CY2007: 63,056
Pathfinder CY2006: 73,124
Pathfinder CY2005: 76,156

I will really miss the Pathfinder, especially the WD21 (I owned an1987 model). Hopefully it's Xterra brother will be around for a few years still!

[yeldogt]

I go back to my statement -- what is a Pathfinder?

The 2005 Pathfinder was not what people expected when they went to replace an earlier version -- many bought Toyota 4runners. When the XTerra came out is was a less expensive vehicle for a younger buyer -- it was bigger than the competition in it's price class and was sold as "a lot of bang for the buck" -- people who wanted a Pathfinder did not buy the XTerra. This larger size hurt the XTerra as fuel prices increased as has the enormous size of the current Pathfinder.

Nobody does a car line like Toyota -- especially when you add in Lexus and Scion. Nissan misses the boat in almost every category -- except maybe the Maxima ..... but the Altima is a better buy and almost as big. So what is a Pathfinder ? it previously was the 4Runners competition ......... What does Nissan have to compete with the 4Runner and what should they call it? Have they decided that they can't compete?

Toyota sells a wide range of vehicles and they have been smart to create new names for new vehicles and to not alter the basic vehicle concept for the old ones.

[Timmbo]

Another scenario..........maybe Toyota is behind?????? We will see how long the current 4runner lasts. Sooner or later, that market will greatly diminish and the 4runner may no longer be around. They do have the FJ Cruiser which competes with the Xterra. Time will tell.

[yeldogt]

Having just been out looking as I need to replace two cars I can tell you Toyota is not behind -- and the 4Runner may indeed fall in popularity as fuel prices rise ........ but the 4runner is sold all over the world and is what the original Pathfinder is that a crossover is not. Many places require a tougher vehicle than a crossover can provide as they are currently produced --- but thats not my point.

My point is that the Pathfinder name has no consistent meaning -- and does Nissan need a third crossover? I'm not arguing the point that cars need to be more fuel efficient. The 4runner and its variants are fitted with TDI engines in other locations.

You are not going to purchase a crossover in Africa/Asia and SA -- if you need a vehicle like a 4runner.

[Timmbo]

I agree with you on the name thing, but in the end.......so what? The Pathfinder name means a ton to Nissan, so they want to use it and they should, it is the smart thing to do. Just like Ford did with the Exploder, I mean Explorer. LOL

I am not saying Toyota is behind, but who knows what the future of the 4Runner is, I believe the 4Runner sales will continue to diminish in North America much like the Pathfinders sales have over the years. Nissan's big off road vehicle in the more "rugged" countries is the Patrol. There is the more original Patrol, and the "New Patrol" (which is the Infiniti QX56. The original Patrol is all over the world (except here) as a true off-roader.

[nissangirl74]

Here are a couple of pics I found tonight from the auto show coverage. I read the whole thread and I agree that I don't like the direction that Nissan is going with the Pathfinder but seems like it might be a necessary last ditch effort to keep it alive. If the numbers sold have declined that rapidly and significantly over the past few years, maybe it is time for a change. Maybe the rugged version isn't what people want anymore (or they can't afford it). I'll go drive it when it comes out and give you an honest review. Unfortunately, the dealerships frown upon people cutting through the desert during test drives, so I won't be able to check out the 4x4 capabilities. Hopefully we will have someone who bites the bullet and buys one. I hope they take it out and just thrash the hell out of it to see if it can stand it, or break.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Word has it that the pathfinder for the GCC market is still going to be an off-roading beast... I'm not sure how much of it will be unique and not transferable to the US version though.

[Timmbo]

Chances are the current Pathfinder will continue to be built in Barcelona Spain. The right hand side models are built there. There are plenty of places in the world that would continue to benefit from the current Pathfinder, especially considering a lot of those markets DO NOT have the Xterra.

[asoomal]

You also forgot the D21 in Venezuela

[kerrton]

I'm interested in more powertrain details, such as, is this going to be the a new 3.5 V6 or the current aging powerplant - if they're just going to stick the Murano powertrain in with some upgrades to the CVT I'm not goingt to be buying one of these - they gotta have a new powerplant. If it is an all-new engine, what are the details, will it employ direct injection, all aluminum block and pistons and other impressive features to really raise the bar? What improvements are there over the current 3.5 in terms of raw numbers, in particular is it more efficient than the current, or will efficiency gains come mainly from the next-gen CVT with the added planetary gear set? I'm actually really surprised they didn't mention a more jaw-dropping new engine design to get potential buyers more interested, instead they focussed more on the looks of the vehicle and efficiency gains from the CVT.

One thing I really like about Ford, in comparison, is they've really taken some risks with their smaller displacement EcoBoost engines, and they focussed on marketing the not only the efficiency benefits but the phenomenal durability and quality of these engines. They have a huge 6-part video series online that shows the torture tests in the lab and in the real world, and at the end they do a live tear-down and evaluation of the wear on the test engine which fairs extremely well. That's what I like, a bullet proof powertrain with cutting edge technology and company that values and promots this rather than just aesthetic design aspects like the often mentioned "hard plastic interior". If the powertrain and chassis are hard core durable I can live with some marginal interior panels - it's about focussing on what's important, I really hope Nissan focussed on the important stuff with this vehicle rather than pretty looks - if so all they need to do is market it better like Ford has been doing.

[philipa_240sx]

Some sales figures of the Toyota 4Runner (USA) ... for comparison:

CY2011: 44,316
CY2010: 46,531
CY2009: 19,675
CY2008: 47,878
CY2007: 87,718
CY2006: 103,086
CY2005: 103,829

You can see the correlation, sales of the 4Runner tanked in 2007/8 and have never recovered. Ok, Toyota had other issues to deal with but even the introduction of a brand new 4Runner model in 2009 did not halt the sales slide.

BTW, the Xterra outsold the FJ Cruiser, 18,221 to 13,541 units in 2011.

By comparison, Toyota sold 101,252 Highlander's (a 6/7 passenger CUV) in 2011. You can bet that Nissan want's a piece of the 7 passenger CUV market! Re-inventing the Pathfinder is a risk they are willing to take to achieve that.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

That's what I like, a bullet proof powertrain with cutting edge technology and company that values and promots this rather than just aesthetic design aspects like the often mentioned "hard plastic interior". If the powertrain and chassis are hard core durable I can live with some marginal interior panels - it's about focussing on what's important, I really hope Nissan focussed on the important stuff with this vehicle rather than pretty looks - if so all they need to do is market it better like Ford has been doing.

I'd be extremely surprised if it got anything groundbreaking. I read somewhere that a supercharged QR variant is coming for either the JX (or maybe its already available), so I'd assume maybe that would be going in the new pathfinder as well... but at the end of the day its still just a s*** QR.

[Timmbo]

I believe at launch the engine will be the same offering as the JX, which is in turn basically the same powertrain as the Murano. With that being said, what would really be the objection to this system? The CVT has proven to be smooth and helps increase performance and efficiency. MPG is pretty good, HP is also pretty good. Yes, I would love to see 300 or more HP on this, and maybe we will, but for the masses, this is right on target. No turbo to worry about long term, and a wonderful proven engine.

The downfall with the FJ cruiser (in my opinion) is it has 2 doors, which then is a PITA if you have kids or want to easily access the back row, and price. You certainly pay more, and it is like you almost get a little less. I personally love the Xterra and would drive one if I did not have an Armada (great family vehicle for 2 growing boys and a dog!).

[kerrton]

The problem with using the Murano powertrain in the new Pathfinder is that this is a new, next generation vehicle that they are trying to generate some excitement around and for that to happen the powertrain needs to be new and exiting too. It's not a bad powertrain today but it has been around since 2003, that's a decade old!! I agree it gets pretty decent mileage and it should be reliable with all the bugs worked out by now, but by exciting I mean better bang for your buck with something new and cutting edge. The Pathfinder is very expensive, and if I'm going to take on some big debt to purchase one I need a next gen powertrain that is going to be competitive for 15 years, not technology that is already 10 years old the day I buy it!!

This is all the more critical with competitors really raising the bar, today I can walk in to a Ford dealership and buy an Explorer with some nice tech features and a brand new advanced 4-cylinder powertrain employing turbo charging and direct injection to produce amazing horsepower (240ish), efficiency and reliablity (allegedly). I'm not a big Ford fan, but you have to give credit where it is due, they didn't play it safe with this one and I think they will blow the Pathfinder out of the water because they invested the dollars in some truly innovative powertrain technology, they didn't just dump in something they had laying around for the past decade.

What I want as a buyer looking for a 3-row crossover is some big advancements in efficiency so I can afford to drive one of these things for the next 15 years. I also want to limit my impacts, use less, produce less emissions etc.. and I know there are millions of people of the same perspective which is why Nissan changed the Pathfinder to a crossover. But the powertrain technology has to be new as well and I believe Nissan knows this, it's obvious just by looking at the competition. I'm betting that the base engine will be the current 3.5 with an option for a smaller turbo. Whether it will be a good powertrain will be revealed in time, I'm interested to see how it works out. In the meantime I'm going to hang on to my Rogue for another year or two.....

[Timmbo]

Honestly, I don't think Nissan is throwing everything at the new Pathfinder right off the bat. I am guessing new engines are yet to come!!!! With that being said, if you want an AWD Explorer, you have to get the V6. 290hp which is very good, fuel economy is 17/23. The AWD Murano currently has 260hp, fuel economy is 18/23. 0-60 times are identical, with maybe a slight edge to the Murano.

So my point is currently Nissan's engine offering is comparable to what is offered in the "ALL NEW" Exploder, oops, I mean Explorer. Not to mention we have awesome reliability with the current powertrain. It is a proven powerplant. The Infinti JX has a slight bump in HP which I am sure will carryover into the Pathfinder. I am sure Nissan will eventually offer a 4cylinder Turbo, probably DIG to offer as a more fuel efficient option as well. Hopefully unlike Ford they offer that with AWD

[kerrton]

Good points, I agree. There is a lot to be said for a reliable design, it's always a balance between reliable, proven designs with solid track records and new technology that offers improvements but does not yet have the proven track record.

It will be interesting to see how things roll out.

[Timmbo]

All I can say is if Nissan can produce an engine like what is on the Juke, but do it on a bit of a larger scale, that would be a sweet yet efficient engine. Just a matter of time.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Look at the AWESOME 5.6 in the QX56. 5.6 liters, 32 variable valves, direct injection, 400+ hp/tq, and gets 20MPG even in the behemoth that is the QX.
Trickle some of that down!
I like the Juke's engine, but FFS, offer the manual with AWD, and PLEASE make a 300hp screamer hatch to put in the WRC and compete with Subaru/Mitsubishi.

[Timmbo]

Honestly, the new Pathfinder concept does not surprise me. Nissan has to do something to reverse the trend. The market for mid-sized SUV's has been steadily dropping for years now, you can blame high gas prices and changing consumer tastes for this one. Consumers are demanding more softer CUV's with better fuel economy.

Look at the North American sales figures:

The Pathfinder sold only 25,935 units in 2011.
The Rogue by itself sold 124,543 units in 2011, that almost HALF of Nissan's overall truck sales (332,993 units)! Ok, the Rogue is NOT a truck in the purest sense nor is it an off-roader. But it does show how consumer tastes have leaned towards crossover vehicles in a big way.

Going back further, Pathfinder sales have been dropping steadily for years now:

Pathfinder CY2010: 21,438
Pathfinder CY2009: 18,341
Pathfinder CY2008: 33,555
Pathfinder CY2007: 63,056
Pathfinder CY2006: 73,124
Pathfinder CY2005: 76,156

I will really miss the Pathfinder, especially the WD21 (I owned an1987 model). Hopefully it's Xterra brother will be around for a few years still!

Here, I will update these number to include 2011. Still the number are low. The huge drop in 2008 and 2009 was when we saw the gas prices climb over $4 a gallon.

Pathfinder CY2011: 25,935
Pathfinder CY2010: 21,438
Pathfinder CY2009: 18,341
Pathfinder CY2008: 33,555
Pathfinder CY2007: 63,056
Pathfinder CY2006: 73,124
Pathfinder CY2005: 76,156

[Timmbo]

Compare that to a much more fuel efficient such as the Nissan Rogue:

Rogue CY2011: 124,543
Rogue CY2010: 99,515
Rogue CY2009: 77,222
Rogue CY2008: 73,053
Rogue CY2007: 17,808

Also worth noting Murano sales have been annually just over 50,000 units the last few years, back in 2008 just over 70,000 Muranos were sold.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

proof that the general public really doesn't give 2 s*** what transmission is in your vehicle as long as the bottom line is good.