Redesigned Pathfinder

[asoomal]

Hey, the Nissan Axxess was sacrificed for the Pathfinder...

Think of this as the new Axxess...

AWD with no off road capabilities, but enough space for the family and has a smooth ride =)

[kerrton]

Next month the 2013 Pathfinder will show up at the New York auto show, and they've all but confirmed that they'll be playing it safe in the powertrain development, no big fanfare expected whatsoever. It looks like they're going to slap the current 3.5 V6 with a next gen CVT and it will get "25% better fuel efficency", which sounds impressive but the outgoing model was so hard on gas this will just bring it up to par with competitors such as the Honda Pilot, Ford Explorer, and Toyota Highlander. The big problem is Honda and Toyota's will be redesigned in the next couple years so the Pathfinder may again find itself behind the times, but it's hard to say, they may have some ground breaking powertrain tech to be released in the next couple years too. In the short term Hyundai/Kia will continue to dominate Nissan with their cutting edge efficient tech, high build quality and excellent pricing - at the New York show compare the unveiled new Hyundai Santa Fe with the Pathfinder, it'll be an interesting comparison.

Here is the link:

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/16/2013 ... ing-in-bi/

[kerrton]

Is there anybody out there who's actually excited about the new Pathy? We're just a few months away from it hitting the dealerships, I wonder how well it will sell? So much will depend on pricing, which takes me out of running for a new one because I refuse to pay $40,000+ for a vehicle even if I can afford it. And first model years are almost always a pain with lots of service bulletins and recalls. If I could find a 3-4 year old used one I might be interested, but don't want to wait the 3-4 years!

[kerrton]

Arrival date of the 2013 model is late October in my area, according to my dealer. I'm surprised by the late arrival, Nissan might miss out on some of the late summer/early fall new-model excitement. There are many 2013 models available right now, I know the brand new 2013 Mazda CX-5 has been out for over 2 months already, the 2013 Ford Explorer which competes with the Pathfinder has been out for a while.

I was also surprised that this is the first implementation of the new "next generation" CVT in a V6 application. The new Nissan Quest uses the same 3.5VQ engine that the 2013 Pathfinder gets (perhaps some mods to the version in the Pathy), but even though the Quest is new it appears to still have the old-school CVT that is found in the Murano which also uses the 3.5VQ. I would quite leary about being the first to try out the new CVT with external high/low planetary gear set for fears of future durability issues. I know the new Ininity JX is using this powertrain and has been for several months, and has gotten very good reviews which doesn't surprise me - I expect good driving manners and refinement, along with pretty good efficiency, but long-term this tech hasn't been tested in the real world. I have to think Nissan has tested the heck out of the new CVT prior to launch, and used it's knowledge from previous versions to perfect the tech, but I still don't know how happy I'll be 10 years down the line, long after the warranty has run out.

[PathyProject]

I hate the new Pathfinder, it is a smear on the Pathfinder name. Nissan had a specific formula that they have pretty much went by since the Pathfinder came out in 1986. First off the Pathfinder has always had the rear door handles placed high up on the C-pillar, this new Pathfinder has rear door handle that are down lower like an ordinary car. Secondly the Pathfinder has always been a real SUV, now it's being turned into a friggin crossover. Nissan already has the Juke, Rogue and Murano. So, there is no need for another crossover. Third the Pathfinder has always been street and road worthy, if you wanted to lift your Pathfinder 4-inches and put huge tires on it you could. Or if you wanted to put 20-inch rims on it you could. I don't see how you could fit big tires or rims on this new Pathfinder unless you did some serious modifications. By being a crossover the new Pathfinder is pretty much a minivan that looks like an SUV. What a shame.

[Alfredo24.pr]

they should have changed the name, this is no longer an offroad vehicle. its more like a soccer mom's SUV now. I think they are trying to compete with the highlander now

[kerrton]

No doubt about it, they are clearly targeting the Highlander, Pilot, and Ford Explorer, and even the Dodge Durango which has tried to remain more truck-like by keeping RWD standard, but it too is now unibody.

It's the new standard, once the Pathfinder, Explorer and Durango have ditched the body on frame and moved to unibody, you know things have really changed. For me I say it's for good reason and for the majority of buyers this is a very good thing. For decades there were thousands of people driving around in off-road-capable trucks with very poor efficiency, oversized engines that impacted air quality, and most of these old SUV's had very bad safety ratings, some were real death traps for families.

The new crossover vehicles really are amazing, they're much more efficienct which translates into reduced emissions and much cheaper to own (gas is expensive!!), and they are incredibly safe with a long list of standard safety features that were scarcely dreamt about 15 years ago like stability/traction control, use high tensile steel and crumple zones, head curtain air bags etc., etc.,, and amazing utility with easy access to third row seating, much better sound insulation, on-road manners, suspension and steering making these things a dream to drive compared to old truck-based SUV's.

When you start looking at the details the conclusion has to be that the old SUV's were complete crap for MOST peoples applications which was in-town driving, shuttling kids around, highway road trips, and maybe some light towing and light gravel road travel but many would never leave the paved road. When you consider what these vehicles are actually used for, the SUV was pretty ridiculous. And when you look at the current offerings such as the redesigned Pathfinder, it is EXACTLY bang-on what %90 of buyers need, if not more. That full-package of comfort and utility, and low-cost of ownership from efficiency gains and unprecedently levels of quality really make it a no-brainer in my mind.

But that being said, I realize that the crowd on this forum likely falls outside of the 90% of buyers that I'm referring to. For you guys who truly want an affordable, durable, truck-based SUV for offroading I understand why you're disappointed. Maybe over time a lot of you will be moving to the Xterra forum....or Frontier....or Titan??

[miamiheat3332]

I think for most people on here, and these are all my main things also,

(in no particular order)

1. The styling of the R50, is timeless, best looking are the 2001.5-2004 models, an r50 in good condition even in stock form, detail it up and it does not look dated at all on the road, looks better then half of the new cars out there.

2. Reliability, these things are mostly tanks, keep up with regular maintenance, air filter, fuel, use synthetic fluids, there are only very minor things that go wrong usually, for example the a/c blower motor module where it gets stuck on high. That is about the only NON maintenance item i have replaced in my pathfinder and i am at 134k (knock on wood). Everything else is brakes, suspension, or upgrades that arent part of reliability are part of maintenance on every car.

3. Versatility, even though ours is a uni-body design, stock with upgraded tires, it is a very capable stock midsize suv offroader, stock is also moves good for an suv and has sedan like handling and ride for the roads.

Another thing i have noticed it can handle the extremes also, one guy on here has his lifted 6" inches and beats it hard offroad, and can compete with a bunch of other modded trucks with body on frame construction, but have the nicer fit n finish. Then on the opposite end of the stick, I never take my pathfinder offroad, but i still like 4x4 in the snow and tow a lighter trailer from time to time, i have mine lowered 2" on race springs and multiple chassis stiffeners, poly bushings, airlift 1000, wide wheels, brakes etc, and it performs amazing on this end also modded for street. On curves i can compete and leave in the dust sport coupes and sedans if i want to.

I think those are the big 3 things, and especially the last one isnt possible with the new 2013 pathfinder, it just isnt build rugged enough to have that versatility, or even the r51 generation which had body on frame, but in my opinion and half the others on here, the body looks like crap compared to our Japanese built r50's.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Maybe over time a lot of you will be moving to the Xterra forum....or Frontier....or Titan??

Great entire post, however I'm just quoting the last part. Again, spot on. Don't forget about the Armada (air levelizer suspension system makes it easy to jack the vehicle up for going off-road, or lowering it down for better fuel economy ). Even with the departure of the Pathfinder, Nissan STILL has more fully-boxed badass framed vehicles than most other manufacturers- although I wouldn't be surprised if they downsize further due to CAFE standards or something. A cheaper version of the Armada would be nice... or maybe an off-road package (maybe only 2 rows of seating, basic interior/amenities, good suspension).

[Towncivilian]

Nissan posted some photos on Facebook.

[asoomal]

There's more tail light on the side than the rear.

Lol.

[nissangirl74]

There's more tail light on the side than the rear.

Lol.

Yeah, that's weird.

[KyooX4]

[jamesstock]

They really should have HID and LED Tails to complete the lineup. Ford Explorer has the 'option'.

[kerrton]

Powertrain is going to be an issue compared to competitors, in my opinion. Nissan has finally caught up to the current competitors which have been around since 2008 - Toyota Highlander and Honda Pilot are the top two. The problem is, these are both due to be completely redesigned in 2014, so Nissan will likely quickly fall behind again - which amounts to 4-5 years late to the show.

I'm specifically referring to fuel economy, the Pathfinder just matches the current Highlander and Pilot, but you can bet that next year the redesigns will be much more fuel efficient and blow the Pathfinder away. Honda already has stated it will use 8 and 9 speed trannies, and all automakers are moving towards smaller engines with direct injection and turbos. The Pathy basic 3.5 with minimal tweaks just isn't going to cut it for very long, and I know they're relying on the next-gen CVT as their saviour, but this could end up backfiring because it really doesn't offer that much of an efficiency improvement and many people hate CVT's so will likely choose the new Toyota or Honda next year, or the newcomer Long-Wheelbase Santa Fe, which offers a 3.3 engine with direct injection and 6-spd auto - also nothing spectacular but pretty close to par with Pathy and the regular gearbox could swing people over to Hyundai because again there's no big advantage to CVT but it has the potential disadvantage of poor driving dynamics and more importantly you can't repair/rebuild the transmission when problems inevitably will strike which makes long-term value much lower. Also the Ford Explorer offers the 2.0 Ecoboost turbo for those who want efficiency in a 3-row crossover, again something the Pathfinder can't compete with. Ford has done it right, offer the choice of 3.5 or 2.0 which target different driving types, and they have indicated that soon they will be offering 8-9 speed trannies across the lineup. Years ago Nissan started bragging about the development of smaller turbos, they will need to bring one in as an option on the Pathy in the next 2-3 years if they hope to remain competitive, and if I had to guess I'd say this is in the plans because they must know they're doomed without it. Even if they don't sell a lot of the smaller engines, it will help to raise their overall lineup efficiency numbers to satisfy the always increasing Federal efficiency standards.

The next couple years will be interesting as the competition gets tighter and tighter, especially with a continuuing weakened economy.

[Buzzman]

Kerrton, Good post. Couldn't agree more.
I for one will not buy a Nissan (or any car/truck) with a CVT.
Unless it can be improved in the way it feels/drives, I'll stick with a traditional automatic.
You are right about the 3.5 engine too. It's been around since 2001 (I believe), and Nissan has probably done everything it can with this engine. The competition is moving forward, and it seems Nissan is just playing catch up.

[kerrton]

I agree, in particular I won't be testing the new "next generation" CVT on the Pathfinder with my hard earned dollars. If it proves to be reliable over the years I might consider a used one someday, but likely not. I currently own a Rogue, and the CVT works pretty well for the first few years, but in particular the 08-10 CVT develops a whine in hot weather at highway speeds that was not apparent in the first few years. If I keep the car long enough it will likely get a new CVT replacement, which is ok because the Rogue has a 10-year CVT warranty, but with the Pathfinder the 5 year warranty may not be long enough to cover future issues. The problem is you just don't know, and the previous generation CVT's have enough quirks that I've lost confidence. I'll take a conventional 6-speed transmission any day, because at least after the warranty runs out, if the transmission gives me trouble I can have it reparied or rebuilt (not cheap I know, but cheaper than a $5000 CVT), and a conventional transmission should stand a good chance of being trouble free as long as it's not built by Dodge or Honda!!!

[Pathfinder3.5]

I really want to like it, but I can't. It's no longer a 'real' pathfinder anymore in my opinion.

[kerrton]

I love everything about it, except the questionable new CVT technology, and the somewhat weak fuel efficiency, even though it is miles ahead of the outgoing model's efficiency. For me 3 rows of comfortable seating, and an all-around well-designed family cruiser is exactly what I'm looking for in the next couple years, so I was really hoping to get excited about the powertrain too, but it hasn't happened yet.

I've never owned a Pathfinder so this new model is as much a "Pathfinder" as anything else, to me it's just a name and nothing more. But if your statement is "this isn't an offroad truck-based SUV", you're completely right about that.

[kerrton]

Details are now available on the Nissan USA site, pricing for the base FWD starts at $28,270, which sounds impressive until you look at the specs and realize that this model will not be widely available and it is missing several items that should now be standard, such as Bluetooth and USB input for the stereo.

Mileage estimates are higher than initially estimated, 20/26 mpg which I am actually quite impressed with so I partially retract my original critisism, considering they maintain the 5000 lb tow rating and they're working with the VQ3.5 V6 engine this is actually really impressive in such a large vehicle (by comparison, the current Murano with 3.5VQ is rated at 18/24mpg and it is a smaller vehicle).

The Infininty JX twin is apparently selling like crazy, so overall design must be quite good, the 3rd row looks to be usable by adults, and interior space looks very well laid out. The Pathfinder should sell even better than the JX I would guess because of the lower sticker price, although neither will be cheap once you get the options that most will want.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

In person, I like the looks of the pathfinder over the JX. There are definitely some interior shortcomings when compared to the JX, but Nissan did a pretty good job of cutting where the cuts could be made (like not having a padded leather dash in favor of harder plastic... I mean who really cares about that anyway?).

I kinda dig the front end too. Very Saab 9-5ish.

[Timmbo]

Honestly, I am looking at trading in or selling the Armada in favor of the new Pathfinder. Much better fuel economy is the biggest thing, but keeping with being able to tow and haul the family combined with great winter weather handling.

[Timmbo]

I am a bit shocked there are not more people discussing the upcoming 2013 Pathfinder. I for one am pumped about the vehicle. I am hoping a pre-order is available. I seriously considered a JX, but as much as I value the Tech features of the JX, I just can't spend that much to get those features, the Pathfinder is literally EXACTLY what I need.

[Ron Burgundy]

Eh... Most of the active Pathfinder users here are are satisfied R50 (96-04 Pathfinder/QX4) owners with no need for another SUV. On top of that most of those same users have been pretty dissatisfied (stylistically at least) with what Nissan did with the R51 (05-12 Pathfinder), I can't imagine they are excited for this.

My personal opinion? May I just preface it with the fact that I honestly have looked very little into it. I've only seen the posted pictures. I couldn't tell you anything about it, and I haven't even taken the time to read this whole thread yet. Mostly for the reasons above. With that all being said...

I don't see why they're calling this a Pathfinder and trying to keep that name alive. I know there is a level of brand recognition, but come on!? How is this car not a revamped Nissan Murano? And I use the term "revamped" very loosely. The exteriors are nearly identical, and what? The new Pathfinder has a third row seat as well as some nice "new car" features? Other than that, what are you really getting that's different? This Nissan Murano puts out similar power, its 4WD capable, and can be used for towing.

What am I missing? I'm not trying to be condescending here, I'm legitimately asking!

[kerrton]

I hear what you're saying, maybe the best thing Nissan could have done was change the name and retire "Pathfinder", but that is such a great name with so much great history how could they just abandon it?!!

I agree the models are very close and crowded, remember there is also the Rogue crossover and the Juke. However, the only one of these 4 that would ideally suit my needs right now would be the Pathfinder, the Murano or Rogue just aren't quite what I need (currently I own a Rogue because its affordable, good ride but the large Pat would be ideal for my family of 4). The Murano and Rogue are a bit too small, in particular the Murano is not long enough for a 3rd row and cargo, the Pathfinder appears perfectly sized. Also, the Pat is full of functional, family-friendly features like the sliding/flipping second row, tons of cup holders and storage spaces. The Murano on the other hand is directed towards a more luxury crowd.

If you look at parallels, Toyota has the RAV4, Highlander, Venza and 4Runner. Very small differences between each model - it makes buying a car that much more difficult and confusing, but the trade-off in theory is you get lots of selection.

I don't know how many models they should have, if Nissan ditched the Murano now that they've got the new Pat that would be fine with me, it all depends on the sales numbers and if people are buying these things I guess they've done something right.

[Buzzman]

I hear what you're saying, maybe the best thing Nissan could have done was change the name and retire "Pathfinder", but that is such a great name with so much great history how could they just abandon it?!!

Brings another thought to mind. Why not revamp the Xterra and relabel that thing as a Pathfinder, and retire the Xterra name?
I can't imagine very many people would notice or miss it (the name I mean).
Then they could re-badge the redesigned Pathfinder as something brand new.
Just a thought.
Cheers.

[kerrton]

The model and pricing details are available for Canadians online: http://nissan.ca/vehicles/ms/pathfinder/en/

The starting price is just under $30k for the base model, if you don't want to miss out on key options like Bluetooth and heated seats you'll need to upgrade to the SL package which is just over $35k. Very reasonable pricing and good bang for your buck, I was expecting a higher pricetag and am surprised to see that the new model looks to be cheaper than the outgoing, although its not really fair to compare these two completely different vehicles.

Also of note, highway fuel efficiency is an impressive 7.7L/100 km for FWD models. For comparision, the current FWD Rogue has been rated at 7.0 L/100km since it was released in 2008, so the much larger Pathfinder has almost equalled the much smaller Rogue on the highway mileage. Nissan may just have a winner after all!

[Timmbo]

I will tell you this, the new Pathfinder is built on the same platform as the JX35 that I just decided to purchase last week, and this thing handles AMAZING! An EXTREMELY refined vehicle. The CVT works very well with the engine (granted the JX has a little more hp and torque), but customers will love the combination of this engine, transmission, and the fuel economy they will see. Space inside is amazing (Pathfinder has another 3/4" or so of headroom in the 2nd and 3rd rows). Nissan / Infiniti really thought everything through with these vehicles, they really brought everything together on these vehicles.

[kerrton]

Yeah after looking at the detailed specs and comparing to other models such as the Pilot, Highlander and Explorer I think you're right. The only annoying thing that I noticed was the base S model almost looked like an ideal package for me but the left out a few basic items that I know I'd regret not having such as BlueTooth, heated front seats, 7" media touchscreen, and a backup camera. So to go one trim level up from FWD S to FWD SL is $5000 - a big jump but I guess you can't expect too much from a base model. In the old days a base model wouldn't even have AC or cruise control!

Good luck with the JX, glad you're enjoing it!

[Timmbo]

It is sweet, I was going to wait for the Pathy and trade in my Armada, but I ended up coming out $4500 ahead of the game because I sold my Armada outright. The JX is just soooooooooo luxurious inside, and I love Xenons (amongst many other tech gadgets)!