REAL Electric turbo...what do you think??

[cory2081]

Ok fellow 240 drivers, just hear me out. Forget all the stupid fans claiming to make HP for like $20 or the E-Ram (which is an R/C airplane ducted fan) which costs like $200. I'm talking about a REAL turbo.....a Garrett compressor housing and wheel with an electric motor spinning it instead of exhaust gases. Can't be done?? twit was that?? I **** hear you?? Well, I know almost doesn't count......but, I have ALMOST succeeded in this. I'm serious, I have this thing sitting right here and will post pics to prove it. The problem I am having is with the motor. I have some very fast R/C car motors laying around from the days of racing those things. We're talking 50,000 RPM motors here. They will really get that thing spinning, it will blow your hand away. The problem is that they just get too hot and fail under prolonged runs. I'm thinking of getting a larger brushless D/C motor, like 1-2HP. They aren't very big, about the size of a starter on a 240. Anyhoo, the problem with that is the RPM range. I'd have to use a "step-up" gear ratio like 1:5. My whole reason of posting this is to see if anyone out there might have some input. I mean, that lil R/C motor can really make that thing blow. It isn't going to push like 10 PSI, but, 1-2 is definitly acheivable. Just something I've been playing with. If I can get it to work reliably, I'll try it on my car. Anyway, what does everyone think?? If I can get this thing to push even 5PSI reliably, would it be worth like several hundred bucks and a few hours of install and tuning to anyone?? Anyone have sugestions on how much HP the motor will have to produce to push 5 PSI with a T3 compressor?? I just need to figure out what the best motor is for this application and the right gearing. :rolleyes

[[s3]]

You can use a motor from a 1 to 5 HP leaf blower to crank your turbo, i'm sure it'll be far superior to any R/C motor, it also runs on gas and you can probably hook up an oil line to it.

Creative thinking, but electricity is not an efficient source of power, especially if the needs are high.

There's a reason why turbo's are driven by exhaust gases.

[cory2081]

Well, the reason they are driven by exhaust gases is that they make use of the engines normally wasted energy. Let's just say I could get it to work without a hitch and get around 50-80HP gain for under $1,000 and it would only take you 2 hours to install??

[Toahk]

If it was worth it someone would have done it before.

[cory2081]

I guess alot of people don't take this seriously. You do realize that Garrett, along with a company called Turbodyne, have electric turbos that work?? Garrett also built a "Hydrocharger", which was a turbo run by hydraulics similar to a power steering pump, in 1999. I'm telling you, turbos as we know them are going to change. With automobile charging systems going to 42 volts, it becomes very feasable. No oil lines, no wastegate, no manifold cracking, no belt breaking, no lag, all computer controlled. I just want to try to get this one to work, since it's already built and all.........wanna see??

[[s3]]

If it could be done, wouldn't the bigger companies invest $ into bring a superior product to the market?

Theres also a reason you don't see things other than that silly ERAM crap floating around.

Also, how are you going to solve your power needs?

Generating enough electricity to make 5psi is not easy, you'll need enough amperage to keep your turbo spinning thru out the rev ranges.

Hopefully not batterys.

For 50-80HP I can get a NOS kit for less than $500

[hadokenny]

If it was worth it someone would have done it before.

If we keep thinking that all the ideas have been done before, then there wouldnt be any new inventions.

[solaris22]

it won't push nearly as much air as turbo will

[[s3]]

theres a fine line between inventions that work and ones that do not.

Also, inventions that work just to prove a point but are either too ridiculously expensive to manufacture or just didn't make it to the point where it will be manufactured.

If we keep thinking that all the ideas have been done before, then there wouldnt be any new inventions.

[cory2081]

If it could be done, wouldn't the bigger companies invest $ into bring a superior product to the market?

Theres also a reason you don't see things other than that silly ERAM crap floating around.

Also, how are you going to solve your power needs?

Generating enough electricity to make 5psi is not easy, you'll need enough amperage to keep your turbo spinning thru out the rev ranges.

Hopefully not batterys.

For 50-80HP I can get a NOS kit for less than $500

When your bottle runs out, I'll still have turbo power. NOS is OK, but, I like have all my power when I want it and as much as I want. I'm just building this for myself, just a hobby I guess. If it works, great, I'll be rolling with more HP and I'll have something noone else has. If not, I'll just boost my car the conventional way. No biggie. It's just a cool gadget for me to toy with.....had to do something with that stock Buick turbo that was worn out!!

[cory2081]

Here ya go

[randybunctious]

only in sc! dude go for it! one of my friends tried a leafblower on an accord abour 3 years back and it mysteriously caught fire, it worked for a little bit. we deceided we were too stupid to get it to work and too poor after genius burnt his dads leaf blower up! it has to be possible though

[cory2081]

It is, it has been done.......just noone sells it b/c the applications it has been made for are prototype small engines that get like 100MPG with low emissions. I finally found a motor company that has produced brushless electric motors that can acheive 200,000 RPM......and they say they were for electric turbos. I e-mailed them, so, maybe they'll give me some info so I can order one. That is.....if the motor isn't like $1,000 UGH!! Yeah, I don't really have the funding either......but, I CAN get it.

[TurboKA37]

this is interesting. ive thought of doing something like this but thought it would have been done already if it was worth the effort. where do you plan on mounting it? near the TB and not run a intercooler?

[Exar-Kun]

you know mercedes superchargers have a electronic cluch coupling so they're never engaged unless the computer/engine tells them to be...(just a neat factoid since you were talking about neat ideas)-chet

[sideshow]

turboka - you make a good arguement, but if it was true we never would of gotten anywhere as a species, because if some caveman said "fire hu? well if it was that good they would of allready had it" and went on his merry way. i think it would be a pretty sweet idea, even if it dosent turn out the way he wants its a step in a different direction

[TurboKA37]

hmm, i didnt even kno i was making an arguement

[s14a]

You can use a motor from a 1 to 5 HP leaf blower to crank your turbo, i'm sure it'll be far superior to any R/C motor, it also runs on gas and you can probably hook up an oil line to it.

Creative thinking, but electricity is not an efficient source of power, especially if the needs are high.

There's a reason why turbo's are driven by exhaust gases.

^^this is crazy because my friend did that. he used a gas leaf blower, and some air ducting to get cold air. (dont forget the duct tape) im not sure how much hp it added, and it was on an older chevelle.

[sideshow]

well u were emphasizing a point then and i was stating my position if that sounds better haha.

[cory2081]

Well, it's a good discussion anyway. It's something different, and with all the el-cheapo so called "electric turbos" floating around, people tend to not take the idea seriously. I, for one, think that it is possible. While I may not be able to build one that makes upwards of 15 PSI, if I can just make 5 or 8, and be able to mount it on any car within an hour, that's pretty darn cool. Not to mention.....I could totally hide the whole unit and noone would ever know it was there when I pop my hood. It has the stealth factor going for it as well I'll give it another try as soon as I get some info on these motors I found on the web and am able to order one. Hey, they make one that turns 200,000 RPM and another that turns 120,000....ceramic ball bearings and all....and they run on 12volts, brushless (very reliable and long lived) and have a few hundred Watts of power. Sounds like a wiiieeener to mee, haha. Too bad I don't have a bigger compressor laying around. Oh well, the T3 will do for now.

[Adikt]

my cousin was foolin around with this idea 2 except he tried to use a motor from a vacuum cleaner. try that out they might work

[dareo]

There are electric turbochargers, or at least they are about to come out. I saw a page ad in SportCompact Car about them. They use extra batteries or capacitors to give a NoS like boost for a little bit. basically the pro's of a NoS system w/o filling the bottle.

How's that for vague, but its in the sport compact car-i think the burnout issue-check out their ad for it. Its interesting to say the least.

[SloS13]

1. What are you going to do for oil? Turbos need oil.2. You're probably going to need a bigger alternator/extra batteries3. You're insane

[Camel]

Cory - have you tried piping the thing outside the car to just a bov and boost gauge? this would be a good test of what type of pressure the thing can generate. The only problem is that when you open the throttle body, the thing has to be spinning fast enough to fill the cans at the intended pressure. when that throttle body opens, your static pressure measurement will cut in half at least. keeping that kind of pressure will require hellacious rpm, just like any turbo.

what is the average rpm range for a turbo shaft? It could be achieved using proper gearing..... and for sure a 10 turn double modified wouldn't even produce the tq and rpm to do this. you will need a special applications motor for this.

[Camel]

and do a 360 around the thing with pics, i would love to see more of your prototype.

[Jonny 290]

shaft speeds range from 50k to 100k rpm or so for a full-boosting turbo.

your problem will be that the compressor shaft won't have enough torque. you'd have to have a massive motor and huge step-up gearing. we're not talking leaf blowers here, we're talking 5-10 hp motors.

[Camel]

thanks for the nfo j290

comparable to a motor on a portable air compressor? might be interesting. regardless, you are going to draw like 25 amps creating this much tq. and sustained rpm with gearing. an ambulance alternator should be able to support it.

here's a suggestion - integrate a small 30 amp alternator with the turbo (and truthfully this doesnt fit the description of a turbo anymore, what we are talking about is an electric supercharger) to power it only when the engine is running. an alternator off of a 86 civic or something should do the job (50A dedicated to the motor) and be compact enough to mount in the same location.) however this will be a parasitic loss as with a supercharger.

another issue - speed control of the motor, is this inside the car on a rheostat? basically this would control the speed of the motor thus controling the boost pressure. way cool.

the reason i say it is more like a supercharger is that you will be changing gears/pulley to achieve different boost levels.

what does everyone else think?

[thephatone]

i used to run RC cars and had a couple brushless 2hp electric motors on my E-maxx, the 7cell 7.2 volt 8400mah (2 of them) ran my electric car for about 10 minutes...so i dont think you would need a seperate alternator etc...just convert on of the those professional 1-2 minute peak chargers into 12V....if its done correctly those motors will last along time...and as for the rpm engagement, just have a digitial speed control onto some sort of button, trigger etc...this would mean it can idle, and go from slow to full in a matter of seconds...

[barrigas14]

look through the newest SCC magazine and there a actually a electric turbo thingy. but the problem is that it works only in short bursts. but i would never use one...i'd just go the less technical way

[Jonny 290]

the thing is, you have drastically different loads between, say, 7psi at idle and 7psi when the engine is turning 5000 in third.

turbos work because the load placed on the compressor wheel is roughly matched by the force applied to the turbine wheel. when you open it up, more exhaust gas flows.

you're going to have to do some rpm sensitive stuff with regard to this. and if you do the math, you'll see that the power gained by compressing air electrically will never be greater than the amount of power used by the device. thus, creating a LOSSY device...but this has an advantage.

This allows you to 'charge up' a spare car battery when you're not getting on it, and use that power when you punch it.

In application, i'd treat this thing as closer to NO2 than a real turbo. could be fun, tho!