REAL Electric turbo...what do you think??

[cory2081]

C-KWIK, I forgot about it having 2 solenoids, I remember now. They are also going to try to do away with the starter. In the theory, the computer will know which cylinder is on compression stroke and it will add fuel and ignite it to start the engine. Pretty cool stuff, we talked about it quite a bit in my Automotive Technology classes years ago. Masterman, I know exactly what you mean.....use a compressor that builds more boost at a lower RPM. I will eventually try that, right now I am using the stock compressor from my Grand National turbo. I have a motor that turns 30,000+ RPM, it pushes alot of air even at that RPM with a 1:1 ratio on the turbo. I'm going to try a 1:2 ratio and see if it can handle it. If so, we'll see what about 60,000 RPM can do. I've got the turbo unit ready, I just have to replace a diode on my PWM b/c I blew it on the last run I made Hope to run it again in the next couple weeks. Gotta get some other odds and ends together.

[Chingon]

hehe, 15,000 rpm is nothing my friend...you need something that can at least handle 50k...at least..

[cory2081]

Yep.

[jbanach77]

there is some electric turbos for fan motors that i have seen in hugh transformer vaults that turn like 15,000hp. they are about 60ft tall.

[MasterMan]

or they have lil rotory motors for RC cars, that could probily rev to like 30k or somthing... or how about a turbine engine to power it

[toki]

Ok this gives me a little idea...

so you say the motors now arn't just doing enough... so why not use more of them?

you could cut off the turbine wheel side, and connect the shaft from the compressor to a gear setup like this (below)... excuse the ASCII art styles..

* = motor0 = hub gear

---** O * <-- from side, direct on---*

get it, kinda? the hub plugs into the shaft, kiinnnddaa get it?

[Chingon]

I don't see how more motors at the same rpm will rotate the wheel faster...

it's like horsepower....sure you have more horses pulling the carriage and getting you there faster, but the carriage will only go as fast as the slowest horse..

[cory2081]

I see exactly what you are saying.....I've already thought of that. In fact, I designed the housing for a place for 2 motors. Chingon, he isn't saying it will turn it faster, he's saying that with multiple motors, I will have more HP+Torque so that I could use more agressive gearing to turn it faster without burning up a motor. Get it?? I think that 2 will do it, I'm gonna try with 1 again real soon.....maybe this weekend, and see if my small improvements/adjustments make for a more reliable system that pushes more air. Let's hope so!!

[cory2081]

Oh yeah.....if you look at the pic I posted, you'll see I'm using cog belts. I had to add a tensioner so that the belt wouldn't slip at high speeds, that's how fast it turns, the belt would actually start skipping. Hehe, just thought I'd add that. I shouldn't need the tensioner with this higher ratio though, and not using it sure makes it easier to turn, so, less stress on the motor.

[Chingon]

yeah, I thought that's what he meant, but now that means more amp draw....you better have an optima...

[toki]

i havn't read alll of this thread yet, but for the extra power, have you thought about trying to fit a second alternator?

[cory2081]

I do have an Optima Second alternator......that's always a possibility. We'll just have to see what happens. Trying to get this darn Accord out of my garage. It's a friend of mine's, 91 model, we're putting in an H22A. Should be a pretty nice sleeper. Gonna try to fire the turbo up again tomorrow, if I can find my speed control amongst all this stuff in my garage, ugh!!

[Chingon]

I wouldn't recommend a second alternator as much as a bigger/stronger one. A second alternator will only mean more strain on the engine.

[Chingon]

so how's the turbo going?

[cory2081]

Well, those small motors just arent going to do it. After more research, I probably need a Motor or a couple motors that equal 10HP. The Amp draw will be very substantial as well. The way that they have that electric roots blower set up is probably the only way that it can work with substantial gains. If you think about it, it isnt too bad b/c it isnt pulling any HP from the engine b/c it uses a seperate battery. Pretty good sleeper set up if done properly. I dont think that turning a turbo will take the Amps they are using to turn that roots blower, so, it would probably last longer and be cheaper to build as well. I just need to do some more research and I need more $$ lol.

[Chingon]

well..like someone else said in the teamfc3s.org forums, "sure it uses another battery, but you only get 15secs of boost" I laughed thinking about it.

[cory2081]

well, 15 seconds is plenty for street scurmishes and 1/4 mile runs. Just hope that if it's a street race that they dont try to race you again, at least not for a few minutes.....lol.

[AREITU]

Well, if you get a motor that spins fast enough, you can attach it to an electrohydraulic clutch like the kind on Benz kompressors (superchargers) or A/C units so it'll kick in when you need it to and disengage when it spins up fast enough.

The turbo might spin fast enough to melt it though. Nothing beats matching turbos to the engine and good tuning, when it comes to killing lag.

[SloS13]

well, 15 seconds is plenty for street scurmishes and 1/4 mile runs. Just hope that if it's a street race that they dont try to race you again, at least not for a few minutes.....lol.

Yeah. BUT hows 15's seconds worth it when you need to build up your fuel system anyways in order to support the boost?

[hatebobbarker]

how long will a battery last on this?

[Chingon]

like it's been said...15secs if not attached to the alternator (which again will put strain on the engine)

[cory2081]

Let me clarify here. THe one that Knight or whoever that is, sells does not pull a load on the engine at all when it is being used. It only pulls power from the battery. When the unit is not on, the alternator recharges the battery. Since their unit pulls over 1000 amps, it would not be a good idea for the alternator to have to supply the power to it, your alternator would not live very long....lol. I've been thinking, hybrid cars use an electric motor to help the engine. Wonder what the specs on those motors are and how the wiring for that is done. I know a little about it, just not all the specifics. Just might be a good way to find more info.

[fuzion]

you know mercedes superchargers have a electronic cluch coupling so they're never engaged unless the computer/engine tells them to be...(just a neat factoid since you were talking about neat ideas)-chet

I thought only the new C230 AMG has the clutch s/c.. motortrend or someone was quite happy w/ it because it seems like a NA engine, give it full gas and the sob kicks ya back.. would be fun

[hatebobbarker]

Let me clarify here. THe one that Knight or whoever that is, sells does not pull a load on the engine at all when it is being used. It only pulls power from the battery. When the unit is not on, the alternator recharges the battery. Since their unit pulls over 1000 amps, it would not be a good idea for the alternator to have to supply the power to it, your alternator would not live very long....lol. I've been thinking, hybrid cars use an electric motor to help the engine. Wonder what the specs on those motors are and how the wiring for that is done. I know a little about it, just not all the specifics. Just might be a good way to find more info.

its a much larger electric motor then what you have planned, and the the gas motor recharges the electric motor

[AREITU]

Just admit that electric turbos create too much amp draw to be of any real use.

Hybrid motors aren't very light and aside from 100% torque at 0 RPM, it'd probably create more drag than anything else.

[gabossie]

I'm suprised at how discouraging alot of you are. I think this is a cool idea whether it works effectively enough to make it worthwhile or not. At least you're trying and having some fun with it. Just remember when you get your 5psi of boost out of it, come kick some of these guys asses for saying you couldn't do it :pface

[hatebobbarker]

to me it pretty much sounds like hybrid cars thats all im trying to say

[AREITU]

I'm suprised at how discouraging alot of you are. I think this is a cool idea whether it works effectively enough to make it worthwhile or not. At least you're trying and having some fun with it. Just remember when you get your 5psi of boost out of it, come kick some of these guys asses for saying you couldn't do it :pface

Best ideas come from admist opposing thoughts. Two guys at RB Motoring couldn't agree on the streetability of the same clutch, yet they built a grandma coddling, pavement-ripping 600hp Skyline.

So between one group's enthusiasm, and the others' pessimism, something good will happen.

[reggiegsd]

Hi All,

I have put a little thought into the electric supercharger over the last couple of years. It will require quite alot of power to compress enough air to result in any usable boost. Don't get me wrong, it will be doable if you can find the right motor. Power is a straight forward problem using an auxillary battery.

The real problem comes from the nature of the system itself. The units I have seen so far are all constant speed compressors. The ratings for these compressors has two components, the maximum flowrate (CFM) and pressure increase. The highest boost pressure occures at the lowest flow rate. As flow rate increases, the pressure difference across the compressor decreases. This would work fine for a car like the Q45 that is a little tourqe challanged at low RPMs. But if you want your car to be a high end screamer, this setup won't do it. Adding a speed control unit that would increase the speed of the compressor as the engine speed (intake air flow rate) increases would significantly raise the cost, complication, and power requirements.

I suspect the first real commercial application for an electric supercharger will be on constant load diesel engines.