REAL Electric turbo...what do you think??

[Camel]

Maybe something off the tach lead controlling the voltage to the motor? Someone would have to design a circuit roughly equivalent to that of an rc car speed control to do that. imagine the fets and the heat sinks on that ****** for a 3o to 50a circuit.

i still think that this system would require it's own electrical charging system. sorta like the hybrids.

[dr!ft]

look through the newest SCC magazine and there a actually a electric turbo thingy. but the problem is that it works only in short bursts. but i would never use one...i'd just go the less technical way

It's the elusive Thomas Knight ESC-400 Electric Supercharger!

http://www.boosthead.com/product.php



They stopped carrying "turbo" kits and are now focused on "supercharger" kits. The ESC-400 claims max 400cfm @ 5psi using the three motors. It uses four small batteries (the small Hawker/Oddysey 680 models). Although, you only get 15-sec bursts at a time as they claim the "heat generated by the 15kw limits the running time."

Something to think about...

But to help you, they list the electric schematic Here.

[Camel]

that schematic would not work for what you want to do, you want constant boost right? not just full throttle boost....

[cory2081]

Ok, after reading all these posts......I've already found a company that makes a motor that will work, waiting to get some info from them. I have tested static boost pressure on my brother's 5.0 Mustang with the 7 turn modified R/C motor running 12 volts.....I got 2 PSI and when removing it, I realized I hadn't plugged the fitting that was used for the wastegate. So, it had a leak.......and still got 2 PSI with the engine not running. That's a far cry from where I need to be, but, at least it's something. If the motor and gearing are all paired up right, it shouldn't pull more than about 30 AMPs continuous. Just have to get the right combo. As for boost control.....I have that covered with a voltage comparator circuit and a GM MAP sensor....oh, and a WOT switch. We want constant boost, yes, and full boost at like 1,500 RPM. If I can just get my hands on the right motor!! These companies sure take thier time answering e-mails.

[Toad[^_^]]

Quote » but electricity is not an efficient source of power, especially if the needs are high.[/quote]

Not yet... But they're getting there. I dread those days when Toyota Priuses and Honda Incites roam the streets like an infestation of gasoline-electric hybrid ****roaches... Survival of the fittest may very well kill the Sports car much like it did the Muscle car... *shudder*

[cory2081]

Ugh, I'm with you on that one, Toad. As long as there are consumers like us (sports car people) I think we will be ok. Hey, racing would have to disappear before we worry about companies not producing sports cars. I'm not scared of electric cars at all, in fact, they can be "hot rodded" just like anything else. Look at the R/C car racing industry!!

[s14a]

sry guys i talked to my friend, he put a 4hp gas leafblower on a dodge dart. it took a second off of his 1/4 mile time. he never dyno'ed it tho, he told me it was the best $30 he ever spent on his car.

[Toad[^_^]]

Ugh, I'm with you on that one, Toad. As long as there are consumers like us (sports car people) I think we will be ok. Hey, racing would have to disappear before we worry about companies not producing sports cars. I'm not scared of electric cars at all, in fact, they can be "hot rodded" just like anything else. Look at the R/C car racing industry!!

Thanks for reminding me...Hope for the future of the sports car...

[cory2081]

Holy Cow!! A second off his 1/4 mile time with a leaf blower?? That's bad *** right there. I'd say that's right up there with the performance gains of a turbo kit.

[MikeMurphy]

Interesting thread. 2psi on an engine that is not running will turn into a vacuum shortly after it is turned on, let alone any throttle. Get the setup done properly with respect to the turbo and the electric motor, then worry about how to engage it later. Fix your setup and give us a number with the car running at idle. Then rev is slowly and find when you lose all boost. Do the math considering 5L displacement and tell us all about it.

I would love a cheap 4psi throughout the powerband.

[C-Kwik]

While in concept, the idea is not a bad one, we are limited to a 12V battery. This may be more feasible as they start running cars off of 48V systems. 48V will be much more efficient in carrying the amount of electricty to a motor that can handle the load of boosting a turbo.

[spitz7985]

you also are going to have to watch out for compressor surge. if you run even moderate boost at a low cfm (i.e. TB only slightly open) you will get compressor surge in which a "wave" of high pressure oscilates back and forth between the compressor and the TB. this is why BOVs were invented.

[Chingon]

while on the subject, what have you guys heard about saab's electric actuator controlled valves? release date, anything?

[TurboKA37]

didnt even kno saab was making that. is it individual motors that move the valves replacing the rotating cams? interesting tho, no horsepower being lost through rotating cams and the ability to adjust the valve timing for different situations the engine faces. must use a lot of power tho.

[C-Kwik]

you also are going to have to watch out for compressor surge. if you run even moderate boost at a low cfm (i.e. TB only slightly open) you will get compressor surge in which a "wave" of high pressure oscilates back and forth between the compressor and the TB. this is why BOVs were invented.

This depends on the compressor wheel. The surge limit line is different for each compressor. But it is certainly something that needs to be considered.

[Chingon]

didnt even kno saab was making that. is it individual motors that move the valves replacing the rotating cams? interesting tho, no horsepower being lost through rotating cams and the ability to adjust the valve timing for different situations the engine faces. must use a lot of power tho.

well, they are actually electic actuators (similar to pistons which you can control electronically), and yes, some guys were thinking of the rev nirvana you could reach w/those.

[cory2081]

GM and Ford have been working on that for years. Hmmmm, SAAB is owned by GM, lol. The next Corvette is supposed to have a "camless" engine. Looks like that technology is going to be in the Vette real soon. Thats one of the reasons they are going to higher voltage charging systems.....and the fact that the shocks will be magnetic as well.

[Chingon]

oh ****, i said cams, I mean valves. Yeah, camless engine with actuator controlled valves....sorry....lol

[cory2081]

Yeah, that's some crazy technology there. Just think if one of them failed, like the exhaust valve on 1 cylinder wouldnt open anymore. Man, that could cause all sorts of problems....lol. Well, I'm still having problems finding a motor. The company that I found that makes motors that will almost definitly work hasn't responded to my e-mails yet. I may just have to call them. In the meantime, I may toy around with what I have some more this weekend and see If I can't tweak it some to get more out of it with this R/C car motor. I can use 2 of them, already have the slots machined for it...hmmmmm. The biggest problem is that these motors aren't designed for 12 volts (that's probably why the brushes melted at full speed before haha) Maybe I'll try it with a battery pack and see what happens.

[Mr1der]

that's what I've been thinking too, about the solenoid failing on them, but also think about the ability to change duration and lift with a laptop:D

[Chingon]

can't you use a ball bearing motor? long lasting, and you don't have to replace brushes every few hours

[Russ3Z]

http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/au...tric/h ... /f...shtml

These links deal with an upcoming electric centrifugal supercharger system being developed by Visteon.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A...ticle

This link deals with a sham "electric turbo" system, and outlines some of the problems that would be encountered in trying to make such a system work. After reading this, you'll have a better understanding of why the Visteon system is limited to engines of rather small displacement currently.

[Russ3Z]

http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....35938

Here is a forum link that deals with camless electronic valve actuation, which I noticed was mentioned a few times in this topic. It might serve as a useful primer on the subject. If not, feel free to ask me personally, as I have a wealth of information available from a thesis i prepared on just that subject.

[cory2081]

You mean "brushless" motor, Chingon?? Yeah, that's what I am wanting to use, just havn't been able to get my hands on one yet. I've already seen that Visteon thing, they're shooting for OE type of market, not performance. That whole article on autospeed isn't exactly up to par. 1000 Amps?? I think they pulled that number out of their butt. A motor running at full speed doesn't pull a constant 1000 Amps. Amperage will go down as speed goes up, kinda like torque.....unless the motor is being overdriven. Anyway, it may not be possible to get 11PSI....at least not right now....until somoene dumps a billion dollars into R&D. I just want 5 PSI. That would satisfy me right now. Then I can build another one and plumb both of them up and get 10 PSI.....lmao

[C-Kwik]

Couple other tidbits about electronic valves that I remember reading about.

#1. If they were to fail, they would likely fail only partially open. The valve would revert to being at a state of rest. Since the solenoid would actually be 2 solenoids(1 up and 1 down) the armeture that Russ describes in the other thread would be centered between the solenoids. So as long as the motor is designed so that the pistons don't hit the valves when they are at a state of rest, it should not result in more catastrophic failures. It's always possible that something freak happens and the valve gets stuck fully open. But not likely.

#2. Valveless motors don't need a throttle body. It can use the valve opening movements to control flow into the cylinders. This is significant especially when you consider fuel economy. Traditionally, the motor is run with the valves always fully opening and closing. The way we control airflow is to restrict it at the TB. With the TB gone, it will be more efficient at getting air to the valves.

[spitz7985]

This depends on the compressor wheel. The surge limit line is different for each compressor. But it is certainly something that needs to be considered.

yes i realize that. the surge limit is going to have to be considered so you can decide at what rpm you can have boost at. certainly you cannot have full boost at idle.

[MasterMan]

couldnt u change the trim on the turbo blades to push more air, now that an electric motor is pushing it insted of the ehaust u will have more tourq, kinda like if u take a fan and make its blades stick more straight out it will push alot of air? i hope u know what im sayin its 6am and im kinda wasted.. lol.. but hey man its a good idea i say go fer it, if u can get it to work let me know and ill build myself one!

[MasterMan]

why not try a race goped motor? my friend has one its all decked out it revs to about 15,000 RPMs tho he dumped probily about 1000$ into the motor... but its a lil 2 stroke motor.. that would be sick, have it water coooled right from the main motor

[Supafly]

why not try a race goped motor? my friend has one its all decked out it revs to about 15,000 RPMs tho he dumped probily about 1000$ into the motor... but its a lil 2 stroke motor.. that would be sick, have it water coooled right from the main motor

yeah, and have it dump directly into your stock exhaust so you can get cool blue smoke out of it all the time:ylsuper

[SloS13]

haha, you said dump