****
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsQLu-cQrso
Well finally here it is, start up, one pull to 5500 and holding while tuning, and then a little bonus.... The dyno run was only 14 psi with basically zero timing added, this was our last good one before we developed the problem which has now been fixed, hopefully will be back there this weekend or next week to finish up....
The sound quality of the camera doesn't do the car justice... enjoy.
there will be more to come of the car actually in motion soon.***
Okay guys, heres the deal, today was tuning day for me and my freshly built rb25/26 hybrid. Well we had serious problems getting down there non car related it was a long day...
I'll cut to the chase, car started out AMAZING, 500 rpm increment pulls slowly but surely adding fuel with 14psi through the gt35r. We were making 300ftlbs at 3000 rpm.... We made 387rwhp and 345 ft lbs at 5500 rpm loads at 14 psi. Never got to make a full sweep yet... At that point we were running out of fuel. The nismo FPR cant handle the dual pumps or something, and is not raising its pressure properly. So I ran down to Jegs and got an aeromotive. Hooked it in cant get the base FP down any lower than 55-56 with vac, it just wont go any lower... So tuning was compensated for that.
Now heres were it gets weird. Our numbers started falling off, yet the motor sounds extremely strong, no different then it was before. So after a few ramps at 4000 we are only at 200 is ft lbs now about a 1/3rd or a bit less than before... we decided to check the plugs. They were fine, A/F's are 11.1-11.3 the entire time, with little timing seeing around 16-17 degrees the comming back down from boost which was now around 16-18 psi (we didnt touch the MBC). Super super conservative tune, but no power now? So we do a compression check and leak down test cylinders are all 150+ish, leak down test is 95-100% across the board.....
We are coming to the conclusion the valves are leaking under pressure. Or they just arnt opening enough. Some of my lifers were squishy.. right after we shut it off and some are rock hard how they should be. Theres no lifter tap however. You guys think the lifters are preventing my valves from getting proper lift thus the drop in HP? Or it could be the springs being weak and leaking off? I'm only at 8.5mm lift and 264in-268ex duration...
Anyone ever seen a similar problem such as this? They car is drivable, it sounds like a ****ing animal, holy **** the added displacement and modifications makes it sound so scary.... I've got footage and **** I need a buddy to send it to me so I can show some of the pulls. But right now shes a total dog. It idles great, No boost leaks nothing of that, we checked everything....
lets hear some other opinions on the matter... I'd really like to know what the deal is. I'm leaning towards a valve related issue.
Modified by Shocker at 4:12 AM 4/2/2008
RB27 Tuning Update! Need Help.... Issues stilll...
Re: RB27 Tuning Update! Need Help.... Issues stilll... (Shocker)
What are you using for injectors?
I have heard of problems with deatchwerks and other oversized injector motor structures getting weak after getting hot due to the solenoid not being able to control the injector properly.
May not be the problem, just throwing that out there.
Evan
I have heard of problems with deatchwerks and other oversized injector motor structures getting weak after getting hot due to the solenoid not being able to control the injector properly.
May not be the problem, just throwing that out there.
Evan
Re: RB27 Tuning Update! Need Help.... Issues stilll... (240z4u)
+1..deatchwerks FTL when it comes to BIG injectors upgrades. all they do from what i have heard is drill out the tips of the injectors to increase flow...but the downside is it helps to super heat the coils of the injectors and can create problems.. they cant cope with the higher demnad and eventually lock up.240z4u wrote:What are you using for injectors?
I have heard of problems with deatchwerks and other oversized injector motor structures getting weak after getting hot due to the solenoid not being able to control the injector properly.
May not be the problem, just throwing that out there.
Evan
Re: RB27 Tuning Update! Need Help.... Issues stilll... (S14-NEO)
Ok well I'll give you guys more insight on my fuel situation. Like I said the nismo reg was falling off the map at 14 psi of boost. When watching the gauge it would rise from 45 to around 52-53 then start to fall back down to 50 up top.
The new aeromotive regulator starts at mid upper 50's and ends up at high 60's.With this we are well within the map, not even close to falling off and running out of fuel. Not to mention the a/fs are saying steady at 11.1-11.3.
So I'm really doubting the injectors the a/f's would show it. Then again anyone having issues getting their aeromotive down to 45psi with vac?
The Deauthsues or w/e injectors are 740's. I do believe Andy (Boostdz3) and Riggs are both running Deatches with no issues. Both are making almost 700...
EDIT: Just a thought but the issues came about AFTER we came back from lunch and placed the aeromotive on. The second to last pass we made was that 5500 one and 387, were we ran out of fuel on the map. So to compensate we raised the FP reg to around 55 with vac, and watched it make the pass, it finished and was so ****ing rich it stalled. We fired it back up and it could hardly idle, so instead of tuning for the reg(bc we think it was bad), I opted to get another brand new one. This is when we left for lunch and came back to not making power... after it aeromotive FPR was installed....
Modified by Shocker at 2:17 PM 3/30/2008
The new aeromotive regulator starts at mid upper 50's and ends up at high 60's.With this we are well within the map, not even close to falling off and running out of fuel. Not to mention the a/fs are saying steady at 11.1-11.3.
So I'm really doubting the injectors the a/f's would show it. Then again anyone having issues getting their aeromotive down to 45psi with vac?
The Deauthsues or w/e injectors are 740's. I do believe Andy (Boostdz3) and Riggs are both running Deatches with no issues. Both are making almost 700...
EDIT: Just a thought but the issues came about AFTER we came back from lunch and placed the aeromotive on. The second to last pass we made was that 5500 one and 387, were we ran out of fuel on the map. So to compensate we raised the FP reg to around 55 with vac, and watched it make the pass, it finished and was so ****ing rich it stalled. We fired it back up and it could hardly idle, so instead of tuning for the reg(bc we think it was bad), I opted to get another brand new one. This is when we left for lunch and came back to not making power... after it aeromotive FPR was installed....
Modified by Shocker at 2:17 PM 3/30/2008
Re: (StricNyne)
Okay, first off, I have an aeromotive fuel pressure regulator and have absolutely no problem setting the FP wherever I want it. There is no way you have too much flow to set it low enough. I had an aeromotive A1000 setup in my zcar and it was fine.
What size is your return line? Sounds like its too small. I ran a 3/8 return line and 1/2" feed in my datsun 240z turbo.
Sounds like your pump setup may be moving so much fuel that its not returning to the tank fast enough.
What did you mean by "falling off the map" with your fueling? Are you off the end of the mapping area of the management? What fuel management are you using?
I wouldn't personally run deatchwerks (sp) injectors at that high of a fuel pressure. I know guys have made 700hp on them, but I can tell you that the heating of the coils is a real problem. That said.. I run 650s from them without too much trouble. Just wanted to mention it.
NOW, that said!
I don't think your having a fuel problem. UNLESS you have mismatched a/f ratios from cyl to cyl that are adding up to 11.? at the 02 sensor.
Lifters sound likely, but get your fueling problem sorted first so you know thats not the real problem.
Evan
What size is your return line? Sounds like its too small. I ran a 3/8 return line and 1/2" feed in my datsun 240z turbo.
Sounds like your pump setup may be moving so much fuel that its not returning to the tank fast enough.
What did you mean by "falling off the map" with your fueling? Are you off the end of the mapping area of the management? What fuel management are you using?
I wouldn't personally run deatchwerks (sp) injectors at that high of a fuel pressure. I know guys have made 700hp on them, but I can tell you that the heating of the coils is a real problem. That said.. I run 650s from them without too much trouble. Just wanted to mention it.
NOW, that said!
I don't think your having a fuel problem. UNLESS you have mismatched a/f ratios from cyl to cyl that are adding up to 11.? at the 02 sensor.
Lifters sound likely, but get your fueling problem sorted first so you know thats not the real problem.
Evan
Re: (240z4u)
Evan, I considered the return, its still the stock 5/16's could be a reason my FP is having issues getting low enough it just cant move the fuel. I should run my alum lines back there as well. So it would be 3/8" lines for the return?
I'm using a microtech lt12's. When using the nismo the unit was showing we were off the fuel map. Like there was no more fuel to be used.... so we watched the pressure and saw it was low. Thus feeling it couldn't handle it.
14 volts at each pump as well. They are flowing plenty.
-Cory
I'm using a microtech lt12's. When using the nismo the unit was showing we were off the fuel map. Like there was no more fuel to be used.... so we watched the pressure and saw it was low. Thus feeling it couldn't handle it.
14 volts at each pump as well. They are flowing plenty.
-Cory
Re: (Shocker)
i've run aeromotive fpr's and you really have to unscrew the adjuster quite a bit to get the pressure down. Just keep loosening it till the pressure goes down.
As for the injectors, swap them out for some quality ones, jecs or denso's. It looks like you spent a lot of time and money into your motor, and the last area you want to cheap out on is injectors. It really doesn't matter if one guy was able to make 700 or 1000hp on redrilled injectors. It doesn't change the fact that they have a horrible spray pattern as well as having highly inconsistent flow. They really make it a pain in the butt to tune as well. Nearly every car i've seen being tuned with those injectors have had problems and were unable to finish their tune in one session. They usually end up having to buy a new set of injectors and paying for another tuning session.
As for losing power, I would also check for boost leaks. Also make sure your spark plugs are clean. One super rich run will foul plugs very easily. Also how are your water temps during the runs? I doubt your valvetrain problems would cause that kind of a power loss. If it did it should be visible with a leak down.
As for the injectors, swap them out for some quality ones, jecs or denso's. It looks like you spent a lot of time and money into your motor, and the last area you want to cheap out on is injectors. It really doesn't matter if one guy was able to make 700 or 1000hp on redrilled injectors. It doesn't change the fact that they have a horrible spray pattern as well as having highly inconsistent flow. They really make it a pain in the butt to tune as well. Nearly every car i've seen being tuned with those injectors have had problems and were unable to finish their tune in one session. They usually end up having to buy a new set of injectors and paying for another tuning session.
As for losing power, I would also check for boost leaks. Also make sure your spark plugs are clean. One super rich run will foul plugs very easily. Also how are your water temps during the runs? I doubt your valvetrain problems would cause that kind of a power loss. If it did it should be visible with a leak down.
Re: (Shocker)
Ill bet those pump(s) flow plenty of fuel!! I am also working under the assumption that you guys tried everything normal to drop the FP to the correct quantity.
Your using a stock fuel rail right? Are you on side feeds or top feeds? Sorry for the "noobish" questions but I am not sure what exactly the situation is with the RB27 you built.
Stock lines are the 3/8 feed and 5/16 return right? In your situation I would run a new .5" feed line to the engine compartment if its not going to be a HUGE hassle. Then you can use your old feed for the return.
I am not 100% sure this is actually the problem though. There MUST be some calculator online that will tell you how many GPH you can ram through 5/16 line at your given length. That would at least tell you if your way off base on line return size.
FYI don't run your feed up the trans tunnel, it won't meet NHRA specs.
Does microtech use a MAP sensor? What was your duty cycle at WOT when it said you were out of fuel? Are you using a 2bar sensor or three?
Evan
BTW, How long has your car been sitting? I am wondering if you don't have some sort of gunk (old fuel varnish) in the return line thats creating a blockage.
Your using a stock fuel rail right? Are you on side feeds or top feeds? Sorry for the "noobish" questions but I am not sure what exactly the situation is with the RB27 you built.
Stock lines are the 3/8 feed and 5/16 return right? In your situation I would run a new .5" feed line to the engine compartment if its not going to be a HUGE hassle. Then you can use your old feed for the return.
I am not 100% sure this is actually the problem though. There MUST be some calculator online that will tell you how many GPH you can ram through 5/16 line at your given length. That would at least tell you if your way off base on line return size.
FYI don't run your feed up the trans tunnel, it won't meet NHRA specs.
Does microtech use a MAP sensor? What was your duty cycle at WOT when it said you were out of fuel? Are you using a 2bar sensor or three?
Evan
BTW, How long has your car been sitting? I am wondering if you don't have some sort of gunk (old fuel varnish) in the return line thats creating a blockage.
-
wawazat8402
- Posts: 578
- Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:08 am
- Car: 89 Sil80- RB25DET
Re: (Bluefire)
Ive heard of some having problems, but the answer usually ended up being the tuner not used to working with Deatschwerks injectors. COBB doesnt seem to be having any problems and actually liked them enough to include basemaps for them on their hardware. IDK, I think most of the problems people type about on the Deatschwerks injectors is one guys problem being repeated through hearsay by an additional 20 people because they read it on the net.Bluefire wrote: They really make it a pain in the butt to tune as well. Nearly every car i've seen being tuned with those injectors have had problems and were unable to finish their tune in one session. They usually end up having to buy a new set of injectors and paying for another tuning session.
I would definitely check those feed and return lines. I think it would be a good idea to upgrade them when running a dual pump setup. Also, to agree with whats already been stated, the fuel issue is the most apparent even if there is a chance its not the direct cause of the power loss. Ruling that out will give you a better idea of what to look for next.
Ive always been interested in seeing how people solve their fuel delivery problems in S chassis cars because its not something that is posted very often. I think most of our cars start getting a little scary before we hit that limiting factor.
Re: (wawazat8402)
Ok, Walbro intank is using the stock 5/16's line, the 044 inline is running a 3/8" line. They Y together into a 3/8 line then into the stock rail, which is feed by side feed deastch 740's. Return line is the stock 5/16's rail.
Its a 3 Bar map sensor.
Spoke with my tuner again today about the fuel situation. He really feels that is not the issue. The a/fs like I said were 11.1-11.3. The plugs were fine, and equally had the same burn pattern.
I'm leaning towards lifters/valves not opening fully causing the power loss due to loss of air being let in and out of the cylinders..
If you guys remember my old thread I did install the lifter bleeder backwards in about 10 places, causing my valves to leak, since they couldnt compress. Anyone think its possible I over compressed my springs? Now causing them to not be able to handle the high pressures within the cylinders?
I am aware my return needs to be bumped up to at least a 3/8" no, its not clogged either.
Its a 3 Bar map sensor.
Spoke with my tuner again today about the fuel situation. He really feels that is not the issue. The a/fs like I said were 11.1-11.3. The plugs were fine, and equally had the same burn pattern.
I'm leaning towards lifters/valves not opening fully causing the power loss due to loss of air being let in and out of the cylinders..
If you guys remember my old thread I did install the lifter bleeder backwards in about 10 places, causing my valves to leak, since they couldnt compress. Anyone think its possible I over compressed my springs? Now causing them to not be able to handle the high pressures within the cylinders?
I am aware my return needs to be bumped up to at least a 3/8" no, its not clogged either.
Re: (Shocker)
If your going to upgrade to 1/2" aluminum feed line contact me. I have some aeromotive tubing nuts etc.. to run the hard lines. Ill sell you that stuff cheap, because I have no use for it anymore its stored in my garage. Hell, I may even have enough 1/2" line for you to plumb the car.
Sorry dude, I don't know anything about lifters.
Evan
Sorry dude, I don't know anything about lifters.
Evan
Re: (240z4u)
So no one has ever seen RB valve springs fail from fatigue?
Evan, I'll let you know, for now I'm going to get the rail adapter for the nismo so I can hook the Aero straight up, that might fix my FP issue.
SK, suggested I might have blockage in my exhaust, I'm really doubting it because its practically a straight pipe, but maybe a muffler failed? I have no idea lol. I guess inspection is the only way.
Evan, I'll let you know, for now I'm going to get the rail adapter for the nismo so I can hook the Aero straight up, that might fix my FP issue.
SK, suggested I might have blockage in my exhaust, I'm really doubting it because its practically a straight pipe, but maybe a muffler failed? I have no idea lol. I guess inspection is the only way.
Re: (Shocker)
Wait, you are piggybacking the nismo FPR with the aeromotive??
Sounds like thats your problem, that would be an easy fix LOL.
Are you running stock valvesprings?
Evan
Sounds like thats your problem, that would be an easy fix LOL.
Are you running stock valvesprings?
Evan
Re: (240z4u)
Yea we cranked the nismo as far as it would go then used the aeromotive after, it most likely is.... My tuner called to confirm that with me earlier on his own, I had already consider it lol.240z4u wrote:Wait, you are piggybacking the nismo FPR with the aeromotive??
Sounds like thats your problem, that would be an easy fix LOL.
Are you running stock valvesprings?
Evan
Yes stock valve springs, stock lifters, with stock re-ground colt cams. in 264-8.5mm lift ex2 68-8.5mm.
I'm going to stop at my garage tomorrow and grab a valve spring to be punished, take it to my vise and smash it completely in then out, in then out. Then measure and compare to an unmolested one. Just to see if they can actually fatigue from being compressed too far repetitively.
Re: (Shocker)
Okay, well its good to know the fuel fix will be painless.
I don't think your gonna have much luck compressing that spring beyond fatigue point. Even guys that experience coil bind generally don't ruin springs. Granted, if there was something wrong you did run it for awhile.
Forgive my retardedness, but this is my first hydro lifter motor. Oil pumps up the lifter to basically "automatically" set valve lash.. as opposed to shims right? Can you get air trapped in them?
Sorry for the obvious questions, just trying to help you brainstorm.
Makes me kinda miss my L28 turbo (280zxt motor), clattery bastard was noisy but required little maintenance.
Evan
I don't think your gonna have much luck compressing that spring beyond fatigue point. Even guys that experience coil bind generally don't ruin springs. Granted, if there was something wrong you did run it for awhile.
Forgive my retardedness, but this is my first hydro lifter motor. Oil pumps up the lifter to basically "automatically" set valve lash.. as opposed to shims right? Can you get air trapped in them?
Sorry for the obvious questions, just trying to help you brainstorm.
Makes me kinda miss my L28 turbo (280zxt motor), clattery bastard was noisy but required little maintenance.
Evan
Re: (240z4u)
Yes, the oil pressure pumps the lifter up, so its sort of solid and automatically adjusts the lash. There are a few squishy ones, but the motor doesn't tick so it seems they are most likely staying up while the motor is running.
I'm ordering the fuel fitting today so I can fix my fuel issue and I'll see what that does.
I'm also checking my exhaust piping today to see if there is any blockage in the pipes that would cause power issues.
I'd be so happy if it was the fuel but I'm doubting thats the whole problem.
I also think I have a bad pilot bushing for I can grab gears hard otherwise It will grind. Clutch is fully bled, and operates properly, that was all checked over. Seems like the pilot might be holding onto the input causing the grinds. Its only on up shifts, not on down shifts as well. I can rev match hard with zero issues on the way down.
I'm ordering the fuel fitting today so I can fix my fuel issue and I'll see what that does.
I'm also checking my exhaust piping today to see if there is any blockage in the pipes that would cause power issues.
I'd be so happy if it was the fuel but I'm doubting thats the whole problem.
I also think I have a bad pilot bushing for I can grab gears hard otherwise It will grind. Clutch is fully bled, and operates properly, that was all checked over. Seems like the pilot might be holding onto the input causing the grinds. Its only on up shifts, not on down shifts as well. I can rev match hard with zero issues on the way down.
Re: (Shocker)
Will your car try to move itself when its in gear but has the clutch pushed in? My car does like to do that a little when its very cold outside. Mine also grinds on upshifts as well as downshifts. My trans is almost dead, so thats not new news though LOL.
No way to tell what the problem is unless you get fuel all figured out man.
Best of luck
Evan
No way to tell what the problem is unless you get fuel all figured out man.
Best of luck
Evan
Re: (240z4u)
No the car doesn't move itself. We even jacked it up and tried every gear with the clutch pressed and in gear, tires don't start moving till almost the very top of the clutch throw. It never did this before, however I did over look the pilot bearing when installing the trans, it was in the 26 crank when I got it from the one guy on here from japan. Hyrisiro or something lol.240z4u wrote:Will your car try to move itself when its in gear but has the clutch pushed in? My car does like to do that a little when its very cold outside. Mine also grinds on upshifts as well as downshifts. My trans is almost dead, so thats not new news though LOL.
No way to tell what the problem is unless you get fuel all figured out man.
Best of luck
Evan
I just ordered that fitting hopefully it will be here in a few days so I can change out the nismo and just leave the aeromotive and take her for a drive to see if theres power or not.... my eyes will be locked on the a/f's lol. I wish I had a backyard dyno.
Re: (Shocker)
Make your own backyard dyno from 55 gallon drums full of concrete LOL.
Best of luck man!
Just a quick bit of info, is your clutch releasing at the VERY end of pedal travel? If it is you should take a look at whats going on. I had that problem, and when everything came up to temp the system would pressurize and make the clutch slip.
Wonder if thats where your HP went? What clutch do you have?
I had to remove the locking nut from the master cylinder to get enough adjustment so the pedal was not preloaded. I literally battled with this problem since day 1 and fixed it last month after speaking to a guy on hybridz that I trusted. My clutch releases/engages almost right off the floor now.
I think thats how I cooked my first clutch, was from it slipping after everything warming up.
Evan
Best of luck man!
Just a quick bit of info, is your clutch releasing at the VERY end of pedal travel? If it is you should take a look at whats going on. I had that problem, and when everything came up to temp the system would pressurize and make the clutch slip.
Wonder if thats where your HP went? What clutch do you have?
I had to remove the locking nut from the master cylinder to get enough adjustment so the pedal was not preloaded. I literally battled with this problem since day 1 and fixed it last month after speaking to a guy on hybridz that I trusted. My clutch releases/engages almost right off the floor now.
I think thats how I cooked my first clutch, was from it slipping after everything warming up.
Evan
-
Darius
- Posts: 4820
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 9:48 am
- Car: RB25DET S14 - 665 WHP (SOLD)
- Location: Chicagoland
Re: (Shocker)
This is the first I've read of this thread so don't char me for asking stupid questions. There are a few things that don't add up.
First, I don't see how the fuel return line has anything to do with the power dropping off while in boost? At 18 psi, the pump is pumping less fuel than at idle and the engine is using up many times more fuel than at idle, so there is no way the return line can be too small. Ruled out.
Second, the rest of the fuel supply system should be sufficient since you are seeing AFRs in the 11's. Unless, like someone else said, one cylinder is running rich and others are running very lean and magically come out to AFR=11.3. BUT you'd see the lean cylinders showing up as knock. Do you have the ability to log knock?
Third, it is weird to me that several runs were done on your initial setup before something changed. The AFRs look good and I'm assuming the timing didn't change (or did it and you don't know about it?) I am no expert in trouble shooting, but it sounds to me like your fueling system is fine but needs to be set back to 43 psi off vacuum (with one FPR ) for a baseline. You should also double check the mechanical timing to make sure the timing belt didn't skip a tooth.
Fourth, if your lifters are squishy, then the ball check valve is not sealing properly and the cam would compress it. You would have serious valve train noise. Refer to my head rebuild thread videos. Sounds like a diesel x5. The valve train on the RB25 is solid even though it uses hydraulic lifters. The colt cams are not that aggressive and should be fine. Highly doubt this is the problem unless you have other lifters installed upside down. It still doesn't make sense that it made the power initially but now won't. Ruled out for now.
Last, I think sydneykid is on the right path because it sounds like the engine is working harder to pump air instead of turn the wheels. Check to see that the turbo isn't busted or a pipe restricted.
First, I don't see how the fuel return line has anything to do with the power dropping off while in boost? At 18 psi, the pump is pumping less fuel than at idle and the engine is using up many times more fuel than at idle, so there is no way the return line can be too small. Ruled out.
Second, the rest of the fuel supply system should be sufficient since you are seeing AFRs in the 11's. Unless, like someone else said, one cylinder is running rich and others are running very lean and magically come out to AFR=11.3. BUT you'd see the lean cylinders showing up as knock. Do you have the ability to log knock?
Third, it is weird to me that several runs were done on your initial setup before something changed. The AFRs look good and I'm assuming the timing didn't change (or did it and you don't know about it?) I am no expert in trouble shooting, but it sounds to me like your fueling system is fine but needs to be set back to 43 psi off vacuum (with one FPR ) for a baseline. You should also double check the mechanical timing to make sure the timing belt didn't skip a tooth.
Fourth, if your lifters are squishy, then the ball check valve is not sealing properly and the cam would compress it. You would have serious valve train noise. Refer to my head rebuild thread videos. Sounds like a diesel x5. The valve train on the RB25 is solid even though it uses hydraulic lifters. The colt cams are not that aggressive and should be fine. Highly doubt this is the problem unless you have other lifters installed upside down. It still doesn't make sense that it made the power initially but now won't. Ruled out for now.
Last, I think sydneykid is on the right path because it sounds like the engine is working harder to pump air instead of turn the wheels. Check to see that the turbo isn't busted or a pipe restricted.
Re: (240z4u)
Evan good thinking on the clutch but its not slipping. Its disengaging about 25-30% of the way down on the throw. It used to be at the bottom, I adjusted it last year while on the dyno. If the clutch had been slipping the dyno rpms wouldn't have been spot on with the tach and the microtech. This happened a year ago when I was down there and had the clutch pedal adjusted too high.
Re: (Darius)
no ability to check knock with the microtech, I have covered this before in other threads last year. Honesntly the this car is so ****ing loud I'm pretty sure it would be going off the whole timeDarius wrote:This is the first I've read of this thread so don't char me for asking stupid questions. There are a few things that don't add up.
First, I don't see how the fuel return line has anything to do with the power dropping off while in boost? At 18 psi, the pump is pumping less fuel than at idle and the engine is using up many times more fuel than at idle, so there is no way the return line can be too small. Ruled out.
Second, the rest of the fuel supply system should be sufficient since you are seeing AFRs in the 11's. Unless, like someone else said, one cylinder is running rich and others are running very lean and magically come out to AFR=11.3. BUT you'd see the lean cylinders showing up as knock. Do you have the ability to log knock?
Third, it is weird to me that several runs were done on your initial setup before something changed. The AFRs look good and I'm assuming the timing didn't change (or did it and you don't know about it?) I am no expert in trouble shooting, but it sounds to me like your fueling system is fine but needs to be set back to 43 psi off vacuum (with one FPR ) for a baseline. You should also double check the mechanical timing to make sure the timing belt didn't skip a tooth.
Fourth, if your lifters are squishy, then the ball check valve is not sealing properly and the cam would compress it. You would have serious valve train noise. Refer to my head rebuild thread videos. Sounds like a diesel x5. The valve train on the RB25 is solid even though it uses hydraulic lifters. The colt cams are not that aggressive and should be fine. Highly doubt this is the problem unless you have other lifters installed upside down. It still doesn't make sense that it made the power initially but now won't. Ruled out for now.
Last, I think sydneykid is on the right path because it sounds like the engine is working harder to pump air instead of turn the wheels. Check to see that the turbo isn't busted or a pipe restricted.
One FP reg is in the works once my adapter comes in. Base timing was checked before tuning commensed, and adjusted so it was spot on with the microtech. Each mark is 5 degrees correct? The far left of the pulley is the 0 hash and the marks go to 25 degrees? The little dimpled poking out on the front cover is the mark to look off of as well? Belt skipped no tooth, I've put at least a 100 miles on the car between Saturday and Sunday. No I'm not beating it, I'm driving it like a normal car, shifting at 4000-4500 max shes a total dog, but still quicker than the daily beater.
There is no lifter tick, I know what that sounds like and theres nill
Yeah I'm going to inspect the exhaust like I said tonight, Also going to check the egay IC, I wonder if shes blew apart inside from the pressure? Anyone ever see a blow through muffler fail? I'll get the laptop hooked up so I can monitor boost pressures between the plenum and compressor of my turbo to check the IC.
Turbo is fine, I shut the car off and the ****er spins for 40-45 seconds after...
Thanks for all the advice, and ideas guys, keep um comming lol.
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Darius
- Posts: 4820
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 9:48 am
- Car: RB25DET S14 - 665 WHP (SOLD)
- Location: Chicagoland
Re: (Shocker)
So the timing marks line up on the cam gears and crank pulley.
Knock is not evident by listening because the I6s can be detonating to beat the band (literally) and not make an audible noise. Make yourself some det cans and use them to tune. My knock sensors do pick up a little background noise from my lifters, but still work fine all the way to redline.
http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/i...tCans
Knock is not evident by listening because the I6s can be detonating to beat the band (literally) and not make an audible noise. Make yourself some det cans and use them to tune. My knock sensors do pick up a little background noise from my lifters, but still work fine all the way to redline.
http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/i...tCans
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l0nestar
- Posts: 2251
- Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:24 am
- Car: 1993 Nissan 250SX
2004 Toyota Altezza
1963 Chevy Impala SS - Contact:
Re: (Darius)
Why do those 'det cans' just scare me..Darius wrote:Make yourself some det cans and use them to tune. http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/i...tCans
They may work fine while tuning. But I could see them go really wrong, really quick..
Re: (Darius)
Matt, I understand what you are saying about knock, but this is not my issue. We had 16 degrees of timing at 4500 rpm lol. With only 14 psi, and lower compression than before... My tuner was literally tuning my RB like a baby. If knock was my issue my leakdown and compression test would have shown this. Along with my plugs...Darius wrote:So the timing marks line up on the cam gears and crank pulley.
Knock is not evident by listening because the I6s can be detonating to beat the band (literally) and not make an audible noise. Make yourself some det cans and use them to tune. My knock sensors do pick up a little background noise from my lifters, but still work fine all the way to redline.
http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/i...tCans
I'm thinking maybe my ebay fart can failed from the heat. I mean, my manifold was glowing along with hotside after those pulls. ****er's hot ****. I wont know until later when I get home though. I have no idea what the guts of an ebay muffler consists of, most likely junk metals for the price I paid.
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Darius
- Posts: 4820
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2003 9:48 am
- Car: RB25DET S14 - 665 WHP (SOLD)
- Location: Chicagoland
Re: (Shocker)
Yep. I'm not saying that it's your problem, but I was just thinking that since you weren't logging knock that these would help you tune in the future.
Only 16 degrees of timing at 4500 rpm LOL?! I think my base default timing map has 20-22 degrees at that engine speed. It is good that your tuner is being careful though. Sounds like he knows what he's doing.
Only 16 degrees of timing at 4500 rpm LOL?! I think my base default timing map has 20-22 degrees at that engine speed. It is good that your tuner is being careful though. Sounds like he knows what he's doing.
Re: (Darius)
Yeah I know lol. Hes very good. He owns the worlds most power stock setup 20b. He laid down 309hp with it n/a. About 59 more than the previous record lol.Darius wrote:Yep. I'm not saying that it's your problem, but I was just thinking that since you weren't logging knock that these would help you tune in the future.
Only 16 degrees of timing at 4500 rpm LOL?! I think my base default timing map has 20-22 degrees at that engine speed. It is good that your tuner is being careful though. Sounds like he knows what he's doing.
Now that thing is ****ing bitchen. I got to take a ride with him to go get some parts. Sounds unreal. Mix between huge electric motor and an indy car. Hes shooting for 400rwhp n/a with his new intake, and ITB's he has to install yet... oh yea 10k revs too.
I might skip my first class to go inspect my car, this is really bothering me... Just want to check the exhaust so I can rule something out. Or find the issue... hopefully...