But isnt that why we mod our cars, to compete with cars that are 'out of our league'. If I made $100K a year, I would be a little more fond of the Supra. Hell yeah, its one of the great Japanese sports cars of the 90s. I'd chose it over a RX7, 3000GT, Z32, or NSX (OK maybe not the acura). But its not unbeatable, either performance-wise or in bang for the buck like aleph said.
Power and weight play the largest role in acceleration, and gearing is another important factor. From a roll on the highway, gearing is gonna have a much bigger effect. And the supras gotta carry that weight thru the turns too.
Hey the 12 sec thing was a joke, man. I tried to find the tread, but no luck. Its paraphased. Those numbers dont mean anything. I just guessed. Obviously I was off, cause you didnt think it was funny... haha
And more cost-effective does mean better for the budget crowd.
RB 240 vs BPU Supra
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jrc90240sx
- Posts: 455
- Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 9:21 am
Man thought i would just chime in on this one. In a drag race i would say it comes down to driver, if you have 2 good drivers, then it comes down to power to weight. Its blanty obvios the 240 would win, but it would still be close.
I think you might need a new turbo for a RB25det though, they are ceramic and have a hard time at high boost levels. i would think they might get 300-325 rwhp out of a RB25 with FMIC, intake, downpipe, and full exhaust, with the boost as high as the stock turbo can safely put out. I belive i read some place the stock RB25 turbos are only able to safely put out around 14-17psi boost. But with turbo upgrade, and some tuning i am sure you could get 350-400 on stock fuel system.
Also i dont see the reson in spending so much money on a import for drag racing. If you are just trying to go as fast as you can, there are alot of better cars to get then a supra. I for one would rather get a new 03+ cobra if i wanted to drag race. **** if you really wanted to get into the 9s cheap get a old 5.0. they have had 03+ cobras run low12s with just slicks, and mid 11s to high 10s with bolt ons, and some tuning. there are already stock block cobras running low 9s i belive they even have some into the high 8s. sure there might be some money imvested into that car, but compared to what it takes to get a supra or any other import to preform like that in drag racing almost seems like wasting money. although i do think the supra looks better.
sorry for the rant. also if you want to have gearing and a transmission better then a supra, and get the RB tuned to put out over 500hp. then get a T56 viper transmission with an adapter plate. that transmission is rated for more then that RB will ever put out.
Also i am not really big into drag racing. it always seems to come down to who has the most money.
I think you might need a new turbo for a RB25det though, they are ceramic and have a hard time at high boost levels. i would think they might get 300-325 rwhp out of a RB25 with FMIC, intake, downpipe, and full exhaust, with the boost as high as the stock turbo can safely put out. I belive i read some place the stock RB25 turbos are only able to safely put out around 14-17psi boost. But with turbo upgrade, and some tuning i am sure you could get 350-400 on stock fuel system.
Also i dont see the reson in spending so much money on a import for drag racing. If you are just trying to go as fast as you can, there are alot of better cars to get then a supra. I for one would rather get a new 03+ cobra if i wanted to drag race. **** if you really wanted to get into the 9s cheap get a old 5.0. they have had 03+ cobras run low12s with just slicks, and mid 11s to high 10s with bolt ons, and some tuning. there are already stock block cobras running low 9s i belive they even have some into the high 8s. sure there might be some money imvested into that car, but compared to what it takes to get a supra or any other import to preform like that in drag racing almost seems like wasting money. although i do think the supra looks better.
sorry for the rant. also if you want to have gearing and a transmission better then a supra, and get the RB tuned to put out over 500hp. then get a T56 viper transmission with an adapter plate. that transmission is rated for more then that RB will ever put out.
Also i am not really big into drag racing. it always seems to come down to who has the most money.
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teriyakibroccoli
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 5:41 pm
^ Exactly how can it be blatantly obvious that the 240 will win, while being close at the same time.. (that is, if you think that only power/weight are the determining factors.. with all other variables like driver and traction .. etc.. held constant)?
Sorry, Iwannas15, about the joke. I thought you were yet ANOTHER person that was trying to get on my badside.
Sorry, Iwannas15, about the joke. I thought you were yet ANOTHER person that was trying to get on my badside.
jrc90240sx, If your trying to go as fast a possible for x amount of $ while still having a drivable car a 03 Mustang isnt the way to go. The car cost about 30k. Do you know what you can do with 30k on a Civic? 240sx? Rx7? etc.
I think performance per $ on domestics is misunderstood, people think mustangs, camaros, etc. are cheaper than they are and the parts are cheaper than they are. You might be able to get an Old muscle car to be faster than a Turbo import for less money (i'd seriously doubt a new one), but it would be less reliable and get far worse gas mileage. So if you're talking about making a fast "street car" I think for the most part import is the way to go if you're on a budget. I've taken dudes with mustangs that has spent 3x of what I have on their cars.
But yes, drag racing is all about $$$. I've raced a kid with a Turbo Si who's daddy paid 12,000 to have a shop build the engine, it put out 350whp or so and it took the little bastard till 90mph to catch me when I was running 12psi on a T25. He knew nothing about cars or what he even had on hit car or even how to race. But he won because he has more $$$.
I think performance per $ on domestics is misunderstood, people think mustangs, camaros, etc. are cheaper than they are and the parts are cheaper than they are. You might be able to get an Old muscle car to be faster than a Turbo import for less money (i'd seriously doubt a new one), but it would be less reliable and get far worse gas mileage. So if you're talking about making a fast "street car" I think for the most part import is the way to go if you're on a budget. I've taken dudes with mustangs that has spent 3x of what I have on their cars.
But yes, drag racing is all about $$$. I've raced a kid with a Turbo Si who's daddy paid 12,000 to have a shop build the engine, it put out 350whp or so and it took the little bastard till 90mph to catch me when I was running 12psi on a T25. He knew nothing about cars or what he even had on hit car or even how to race. But he won because he has more $$$.
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jrc90240sx
- Posts: 455
- Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 9:21 am
Ok if both drivers of the cars where able to get 1.8sec 60fts, they both had simarly power to the ground, the 240 is a much lighter car. alowing it to pull ahead of a supra.
Gearing between the 2 i would think the 240 has a much shorter gearing then a supra. most low HP cars have short gearing to help make up for low torque. sure they wont have the topend speed a supra will have, but they only have to go maybe 140mph in a 1/4 and thats a fast run. (BTW what is the gearing in a supra?)
Also i wasnt talking 03+ cobra on a buget, its more of a car to pick up over a supra if your going to drag race. I said late 80s 5.0 for cheap drag car. sure it wont get the best gas milage, but it would be the fastest cheap car i can think of. I dont have a Mustang, and i dont like them enough to own one. do i respect there ablity to drag race for cheap and make lots of power, yes.
03 cobra < supradrag 03 cobra > drag suprasn95 v6 mustang > cobra for drag (cheap chassie + motor swap = fast drag car for cheaper)
Gearing between the 2 i would think the 240 has a much shorter gearing then a supra. most low HP cars have short gearing to help make up for low torque. sure they wont have the topend speed a supra will have, but they only have to go maybe 140mph in a 1/4 and thats a fast run. (BTW what is the gearing in a supra?)
Also i wasnt talking 03+ cobra on a buget, its more of a car to pick up over a supra if your going to drag race. I said late 80s 5.0 for cheap drag car. sure it wont get the best gas milage, but it would be the fastest cheap car i can think of. I dont have a Mustang, and i dont like them enough to own one. do i respect there ablity to drag race for cheap and make lots of power, yes.
03 cobra < supradrag 03 cobra > drag suprasn95 v6 mustang > cobra for drag (cheap chassie + motor swap = fast drag car for cheaper)
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jrc90240sx
- Posts: 455
- Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 9:21 am
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cyrus240sx
- Posts: 587
- Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:44 pm
- Car: 95 240sx with five lug swap, rims, suspension, I H E, remote start, too bad its auto
My buddy has a Supra with just about everything done besides a single turbo upgrade. He ran a high 11 and got kicked off of the track for a lack of safety equipment.
As someone else pointed out, you are going to get owned up top. Even on my buddy's stock turbos, we hit 185+. I wouldn't dream of going that fast in a 240SX. It simply lacks the aerodynamics to do it safely.
Supra guys have big ego's for a reason. The Supra is a dope car. If I had the money to buy one, I'd be driving one instead of an S13 with an SR20DET. As it is, the S13 was the best turbo crack that I can afford.
As Fred pointed out, you can get 350-400whp out of an SR20. Why bother with the RB? Hell, you could get it out of a KA, but you won't have the revs to keep up in a freeway race. Whatever power plant you end up with, you're going to need a different transmission. From my recollection of what someone else once posted, I think the stock SR/KA trans and rear end top out somewhere around 140-150mph.
As someone else pointed out, you are going to get owned up top. Even on my buddy's stock turbos, we hit 185+. I wouldn't dream of going that fast in a 240SX. It simply lacks the aerodynamics to do it safely.
Supra guys have big ego's for a reason. The Supra is a dope car. If I had the money to buy one, I'd be driving one instead of an S13 with an SR20DET. As it is, the S13 was the best turbo crack that I can afford.
As Fred pointed out, you can get 350-400whp out of an SR20. Why bother with the RB? Hell, you could get it out of a KA, but you won't have the revs to keep up in a freeway race. Whatever power plant you end up with, you're going to need a different transmission. From my recollection of what someone else once posted, I think the stock SR/KA trans and rear end top out somewhere around 140-150mph.
Don't go assuming things that aren't true Phax. By the numbers below, the s13 has considerably better aerodynamics. I do not know about lift, and I'm sure wheel base is a major factor in high speed, but the s13 has enough aerodynamics. (on a sidenote, there was a list I've seen which shows chassis which presented virtually no lift over 200mph. the gtr made the list and the supra didn't, even though it looks boxy, lines aren't everything 
)
'93 Supra Turbocoefficient of drag: 0.320Area (m2 ): 1.928Area (ft2 ): 20.75Cd x m2 : 0.62Cd x ft2: 6.43
'91 240 SX SEcoefficient of drag: 0.300Area (m2 ): 1.820Area (ft2 ): 19.59Cd x m2 : 0.55Cd x ft2: 5.88
)'93 Supra Turbocoefficient of drag: 0.320Area (m2 ): 1.928Area (ft2 ): 20.75Cd x m2 : 0.62Cd x ft2: 6.43
'91 240 SX SEcoefficient of drag: 0.300Area (m2 ): 1.820Area (ft2 ): 19.59Cd x m2 : 0.55Cd x ft2: 5.88
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teriyakibroccoli
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 5:41 pm
My SR transmission is good for about 170mph, with my big nittos probably around 185-190mph. Higher redline a SR transmission with the right tires and maybe a TT Z differential could easily hit 200mph. I don't know about the power to get it there, or the gearing. But it WOULD require less power than the Supra.
Gearing isnt set in stone.
Gearing isnt set in stone.
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240sxrb25det
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:46 pm
- Car: 240 with a 2jz in it
aleph1 wrote:I dont see them "holding their own" against miatas, 86s and of course 240s....in my eyes this is between a Rb powered 240 and BPU Supra...not a Skyline.
Those Miata's and 86s aren't making the kinds of stupid power that this guy who wants an RB is talking about making. The guy doesn't seem to be talking about road course racing either. Generally when people are talking about 'beating' another car, they are talking about high speed, peddle to floor, top end racing.
As many people have already pointed out, there are very few cars on this earth that will beat a tuned Supra MKIV on the top end. You might be able to do it in an RB 240. I sure wouldn't want to be the one driving it though. The wheel base is too small, and the aerodynamics simply aren't there for 180+ mph.
EDIT: At least the S13 isn't built for those kind of speeds. You might have better luck with an S14, some really wide tires, and aerodynamic upgrades.
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aleph1
- Posts: 907
- Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:08 pm
- Car: 1990 240SX hatch MODS: class.
- Location: Fort Collins CO
That reply (mine) was to this post, where teriyaki talks of Supra on a road course/race track:
everyone makes these "assumptions" you should probably check out some awesome video of a large turbo'd t88 tearing up some of england's finest r34 drivers?
Anyways, everyone thinks that supras are only "freeway demons" and they're only good for striaght line driving.. but that is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wrong. Yeah sure, their chassis is "built" to take on straight line action, but they do hold their own on the course.
everyone makes these "assumptions" you should probably check out some awesome video of a large turbo'd t88 tearing up some of england's finest r34 drivers?
Anyways, everyone thinks that supras are only "freeway demons" and they're only good for striaght line driving.. but that is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wrong. Yeah sure, their chassis is "built" to take on straight line action, but they do hold their own on the course.
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Twiztid_S13
- Posts: 162
- Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 10:05 pm
- Car: Cars, Anime, Women ;)
- Contact:
wow... that was a waste of 30 min .. maybe i was that bored .. and liquor had alot to do with it .. hah ... my freind ownes a mkiv supra with auto and single turbo upgrade ... heh .. fast car ... but unless u were gonna race him down a straight 5 mile road then id think a rb powered bpu 240 would be a good match im not sayin which would win .. but i think it would be a good race to see .. but yeah this whole post went to S*** quick hah ... dont think anyone got a straight answer
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PantherRacer
- Posts: 9408
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:32 pm
- Car: 1992 Nissan Skyline R32 RB20DET Sedan
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someone said that the ka doesnt have the revfs to keep up on a highway race?
ummm---huh?!my ka revs to 7200 all day long.stock sr's rev to what--7200-7500--something liek that?im a little lost. The ka has higher torquenumbers about 2000 roms sooner than the highest number of tq put down by an sr with the same hp rating. Top speed races are fun, but no way you can really tell who has the fastest car--it only tells you who has the better gearing for the power youre making.this whole topic was started out with a good question--then killed by a bucnh of crap--if you want an rb25-get one cuz you like em--not cuz you want to beat another car. Get it, swap it, race one---if youlose. Do more mods and go race again--repeat until you can absolutely rape a BPU supra--trust me--with 15k--it wont be hard bro.
ummm---huh?!my ka revs to 7200 all day long.stock sr's rev to what--7200-7500--something liek that?im a little lost. The ka has higher torquenumbers about 2000 roms sooner than the highest number of tq put down by an sr with the same hp rating. Top speed races are fun, but no way you can really tell who has the fastest car--it only tells you who has the better gearing for the power youre making.this whole topic was started out with a good question--then killed by a bucnh of crap--if you want an rb25-get one cuz you like em--not cuz you want to beat another car. Get it, swap it, race one---if youlose. Do more mods and go race again--repeat until you can absolutely rape a BPU supra--trust me--with 15k--it wont be hard bro.
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Kaioshin1982
- Posts: 1738
- Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:55 pm
- Car: Not a 240 =) Thinking of getting one again...
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Thee 240sx Owner
- Posts: 1192
- Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 9:58 am
- Car: Canadian 89 240 with LSD/stock no ac/ and 4 motor swaps
- Contact:
Just some info for you guys.. and especially the one in peticular who says an rb 240 couldn't beat a supra... gota a friend of mine with a 300zx.. he's on this forum as well.... has a decently built 86 300zx with a T60E who puts out lil over 540 HP and Torque with a heavy car and runs 11.9 in the qtr.. care to argue some more? i feel the need to stress that this is a car heavier than a 240sx with a heavier motor with a givin 500 horses and runs an 11... so a car that is 2600lbs with 450 + wouldn't run the same thing? please give me a break... a built turboed KA will run 11's and on top of that run cirlces around a supra in the process
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Onizuka
- Posts: 8450
- Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2002 5:24 pm
- Car: 91 Nissan S13 coupe SR20DET
89 Nissan S14 hatch SR20DE
anumeric wrote:if you really wanna be original then look around for an xtrail clip and sweet! "sr20vet" and then figure out how to make it work in a s13. you would get mad props!
Maybe if the SR20VET wasnt transverse
Also, I dont know if it was mentioned, but most supra guys drag with autotragics.
I dont know if any of you guys watch best motoring videos (and like curvey racing more than strait junk) but here are the lap results of one of the videos at ebisu circut:(car/power/fastest lap time in seconds)FD RX7/350ps/103.15supra/600ps/102.11s15/528ps/101.79R34/550ps/101.33
Other than the FD, the cars were pretty evenly tuned. The S15 had the weight advanage everyone is talking about and the GTR had a traction advantage.