Questionable Poll, What do you say?

[themadscientist]

As the poll shows, you are the minority. Most of the rest of the planet will do whats sensable, practical and burn her the cd and never think twice about it.

A couple of things:

1. Your "poll" is a perfect example of how statistics can be influenced by the wording of the question. Had your poll had clear unloaded questions the results may have been different.

2. I find it ironic that you, self-annointed champion of minorities would hide behind a mob-rule premise in this instance. It's not surprizing to see how mutable your moral compass is.

3. Stealing is not sensible. A free market cannot survive if works can be stolen and money taken from the pockets of creators. I am sure that there are people that will, like you, see nothing wrong with stealing. Their lack of caring about the act does not equate correctness.

Try again.

[sndtgr08]

Still does not change that fact of what most people would do. Right or Wrong. As I said people have been coping others work forever. It has always happened and it is something that will always happen. As far as I can tell free trade has come pretty far, and it too will never stop. If you think the free market or the entertainment industry is in any peril, I asure you nothing will stop or stand in there way of profits. As for the poll, it had to be worded like a real situation, so I could get a real answer. If I had said "A) No honey but I will steal you one" of course nobody would have voted for it. Thats why nobody voted for "C" In the average situation the average person would not arbitrarily call out "THIEF" as you did. Again, the poll is not so much to determine the theoretical morality of it, as the practial. And you definitely cant get a practical answer out of someone if you explain all the details and they have time to think about it. Then you get a prepared answer. I wanted a REAL snap answer that an average person would give. It tends to be more honest.

[Razi]

It tends to be more honest.

No it doesn't.
Take a class in Statistics.

You're supposed to make it neutral as possible, not make it a dialogue menu from Mass Effect.

[themadscientist]

You have yet to refute my claim that you are a thief, just tried to hide yourself in a nebulous mob of people you claim would do this. It doesn't metter how many people do something, wrong is wrong whether it be an individual or a mob.

[sndtgr08]

You have yet to refute my claim that you are a thief, just tried to hide yourself in a nebulous mob of people you claim would do this. It doesn't metter how many people do something, wrong is wrong whether it be an individual or a mob.

lol, are you not reading my posts? There is so much free legal music and I cherry pick itunes. I personaly have alot to lose and cannot aford 5 years in jail. As far as i am concerned I am not a thief and I wll gladly burn you anything on my ipod. I used to buy CDs a looong time ago and gave it up. For bands I do like I go to there shows around here and D.C. and I buy there shirts there. I will never buy another CD with 12 crap songs and 1 hit. Itunes can split my $1 with the coperate giants. You dont know anything about me but you still arbitrarily label me thief Thank god for the judicial system. I have stolen before, when I was little I took a toy car from K-Mart, dad saw me playn with it on the ride home. Got a a** whoopi'n. I guess that makes me a thief. And while we are on the topic, I dont have cable tv or satalite either. Most of that trash is free and leagal online too. I'm not hiding behind anyone. If you wanted personal facts about my life, you need but ask. I'm a Jew. I watch free TV and listen to Free music. lol if you want to labal me something do try to get it right, funny as it is.

edit. I bet if I dig, i could find a couple of CDs that others have burned for me somewhere. So I guess I am a harbor for stolen material. If I ever run accorss them again I will be sure to turn them in to the proper authorities. Even though I would not have bought there cds anyways I guess you can still say I took money away from them. Im not sure how but I bet you can tell me how.

Another edit. I did steal a second time! I stole my parents car back when I was in 11th, they came home from work early and called the police, they didt know it was me, but it was too late and the police took over the case and I got and Unlawful Use of a Motor Vehicle charge. Got community service.

So yea, I guess your right. I am a thief.

[Jesda]

When it comes to copyright, the definition of theft is artificially created by law. Normally, theft is the unauthorized taking of property. In the case of music copyright, it's the unauthorized distribution of ideas, sounds, and words. These aren't physical property, but they are intellectual property.

So, it seems important to discern the difference between property theft and copyright infringement since the word "theft" by itself has a particular denotation.

Copying a song is not quite the same as taking a toothbrush from a store. The law may not see much of a difference, but in reality it's not the same thing.

[Mr1der]

Every CD I have purchased in the past year has been at a store.

I refuse to use iTunes.

agreed.

also, if you've bought the CD, I wanna say it's legal to make up back up copies for personal use. So burn one for yourself and give her the original.

and anal.

[zacmil]

In another thread the topic of sharing music was outright called stealing. I wanted to see if anyone in reality would look at another person in the face and acuse them of stealing or wanting to steal. As you can see it got 0 votes. Even the others from the other thread did't vote for it. Weird how some can be richeous one minute, then when its a practical situation they are in, they become more practical.

I'm assuming that you're referring to me?

I must say, I really don't appreciate your accusation that I am being "[self] righteous" and lacking resolve in my convictions. If you must know the truth, I took a look at your little poll and decided that the caricatures you presented as options didn't deserve a response. The FACT is that if you make a copy of a CD for someone else, and keep a copy for yourself, you ARE committing an unlawful act.

We all understand that you feel as though you are entitled to free and unlimited access to music, movies, and the like. You are entitled to that opinion, but it should be noted that you are WRONG.

In another thread the topic of sharing music was outright called stealing. I wanted to see if anyone in reality would look at another person in the face and acuse them of stealing or wanting to steal.

And yes, if I were to meet you in real life I would look you straight in the eye and call you a thief.

I'm just your average middle class nobody. The "flaws' are in the laws" YOU just said you dont think its fair. And your right, I could care less if anybody "stole" my ideas.

I sincerely hope that some day you come up with some sort of amazing product, invention, or idea. Then I hope that the market is flooded with illegal copies and/or cheap knockoffs.

[Jesda]

https://www.eff.org/wp/unintended-conse ... under-dmca

[zacmil]

https://www.eff.org/wp/unintended-conse ... under-dmca

I would definitely argue that the DMCA is, for the most part, a poor piece of legislation. I have complained about the anti-circumvention provisions for years. I am not opposed to the copying of CDs or other media so long as they are intended for personal use and not to be distributed. The way I see it, if I purchase a CD or a DVD or whatever, I should be allowed to make as many back-ups as I want. I shouldn't, however, be able to distribute those copies to others.

My issue with the OP is that he seems to be arguing that he should have the right to indiscriminately distribute copyrighted material. For some reason he believes that because he's copying the material it somehow isn't depriving the artist or record company of the profits they are entitled to receive.

[Jesda]

My issue with the OP is that he seems to be arguing that he should have the right to indiscriminately distribute copyrighted material. For some reason he believes that because he's copying the material it somehow isn't depriving the artist or record company of the profits they are entitled to receive.

It's definitely illegal and cuts into a revenue stream, no argument there. My issue is with the existing approach of prosecuting or suing casual downloaders.

It's impractical to think that the law is capable of sticking a cork in a geyser. Like the war on drugs, there isn't much gained by incarcerating users. It's more effective to go after distributors. [Though I'm opposed to the drug war entirely... another topic for another day.]


If you really want to support an artist, buy tickets to their show and take home a $30 t-shirt.

[TTkickedin]

[Jesda]

I lol'd

[sndtgr08]

@ zacmil You wrote: "I really don't appreciate your accusation that I am being "[self] righteous""

wiki :"Self-righteousness (also called sanctimoniousness, sententiousness, a holier-than-thou attitudes[1]) is a feeling of (usually) smug moral superiority[2] derived from a sense that one's beliefs, actions, or affiliations are of greater virtue than those of the average person"

Obviously you are not the average. The average person voted A. I did not have you in mind as I was typing that "[self] righteous" comment. BUT now that you mentioned it I re-read all of you posts here, and I have to say: The shoe does seem to fit you nicely.

@ TTkickedin

[zacmil]

My issue with the OP is that he seems to be arguing that he should have the right to indiscriminately distribute copyrighted material. For some reason he believes that because he's copying the material it somehow isn't depriving the artist or record company of the profits they are entitled to receive.

It's definitely illegal and cuts into a revenue stream, no argument there. My issue is with the existing approach of prosecuting or suing casual downloaders.

It's impractical to think that the law is capable of sticking a cork in a geyser. Like the war on drugs, there isn't much gained by incarcerating users. It's more effective to go after distributors. [Though I'm opposed to the drug war entirely... another topic for another day.]


If you really want to support an artist, buy tickets to their show and take home a $30 t-shirt.

I can agree with pretty much all of that.

@ zacmil You wrote: "I really don't appreciate your accusation that I am being "[self] righteous""

wiki :"Self-righteousness (also called sanctimoniousness, sententiousness, a holier-than-thou attitudes[1]) is a feeling of (usually) smug moral superiority[2] derived from a sense that one's beliefs, actions, or affiliations are of greater virtue than those of the average person"

Obviously you are not the average. The average person voted A. I did not have you in mind as I was typing that "[self] righteous" comment. BUT now that you mentioned it I re-read all of you posts here, and I have to say: The shoe does seem to fit you nicely.

First of all, you cannot state whether or not my beliefs are representative of the average individual because:
1) Your poll had 16 respondents. That is not enough data to draw any sort of conclusion.
2) Your poll was poorly designed. The options you provided as responses were loaded--the two responses that did not support theft were hyperbolic and, in the case of option C, downright absurd. In other words, you designed a poll that would serve no other purpose than to support your opinion.

You say that I'm self-righteous. I would, obviously, disagree with that sentiment, but you are entitled to your opinion. I admit that I was a little upset when I responded previously, and I do apologize for my smugness. I have to reiterate, however, that I do not appreciate being insulted and I ask that you refrain from doing so.

[TTkickedin]

[sndtgr08]

I do not appreciate being insulted and I ask that you refrain from doing so.

If opinions offend you, then you should avoid things like forums.......While you have been directing all sorts of opinions and "names" at me, I have directed nothing at you, untill YOU put "[self] righteous". And I never pointed a finger at you and said <ZACMIL you are "[self] righteous". > SO what do you want from me, if you find "insults" directed at you with every word, Stop reading! Nobody is out to get you. I have not been rude or impolite to anyone, as I am in reality a very nice guy. So, with that all in mind,

Your request to censor my future opinions is respectfuly denied.

And I cant honestly say that I will never offend you again, thats just ridiculous. I have no control over your feelings directly.

But, I do have a advice for you. If you are having trouble controlling your self or your emotions, to the point where you are actualy getting angry in your computer chair, and just using the internet to vent your anger, I would suggest maybe taking a break and going out side for some fresh air and a personal time-out. You most likely think this is another insult, but its some honest, frendly advice. I say the same thing to my son when he gets mad at a game. I have him shut it off for like 10 minutes and do something else.

[Dattebayo]

Or perhaps you can both refrain from ad hominem attacks and using emotionally charged terms to describe one another.

[sndtgr08]

Not a latin major, but I'm not sure you used ad hominem correctly. I have always thought of it more like what politicians do to each other. We were having a "Heated" discussion. The ones with comments like "op is gay" and "op is an 8yo girl" would be closer to ad hominem i belive. But like I said, latin is not my cup of tea.