Q45 sun visor repair

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tangalora
Posts: 450
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:51 pm
Car: 1990 Q45

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Smaller pics are OK (it's just a shame to lose resolution). Also technique matters, e.g., I learned (the hard way) to first shrink to scale (with the largest dimension being 300), then add text (text does not scale well) using a simple set of freebie photo-editing tools.

By the way, I finally FINISHED repairing (not just replacing) both sunvisors. I learned a lot! Total out-of-pocket cost was under 3 dollars (not counting tools). Total elapsed time was, well, let's not embarrass myself. Of course, I'll post detailed (shrunk) pictures & a step-by-step description for the next DIY'er, but, here's what I learned in general about my particular Q:The dealer did a sham job (in my opinion) when they last replaced the passenger-side visor (details & photos to follow). then
  1. The dealer did a sham job the last time they replaced the passenger side visor (details & photos to follow)
  2. Removing more trim (rather than less trim) would have saved me time & broken clips
  3. One can do the whole job without removing any trim (not desired though)
  4. A good tap & die set cuts MUCH better than el cheapo
  5. Nowhere (and I mean nowhere) is the complete R&R procedure written (AFAIK)
  6. There are only three electrical connectors (all of which are just above sunroof control unit)
  7. Did I mention the dealer did a sham job (in my opinion)?[/list=1]

    Photos will follow, but, it's late and I don't have time to annotate them so I'll just hack out the written steps before I forget them.


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tangalora
Posts: 450
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Car: 1990 Q45

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The first step of the 1990 Q45 sunvisor removal process is to peruse the related pages in the factory service manual to determine your sequential removal objectives.

After perusing pages BF-22 & BF-23 (trim removal), BF-26 & BF-27 (garnish removal), BF-31 (weatherstrip removal), & EL162 (harness connectors), you should have about half the information required to easily remove & replace the sunvisors.

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tangalora
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:51 pm
Car: 1990 Q45

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The next step is to obtain two technical service bulletins previously mentioned.

The first TSB adds to the FSM sunvisor removal procedure (ITB90-036 titled "Q45 SUNVISOR MISALIGNED", dated November 29, 1990).

The second TSB provides vanity mirror removal details (ITB94-006 titled "SUNVISOR VANITY MIRROR REPAIRS", dated January 20, 2994).

Armed with the 1990 FSM & these two TSBs, you'll have about 75% of the information needed to remove & replace the Q45 sunvisors.

The other 25% is found is this nico forum.

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tangalora
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Car: 1990 Q45

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It won't be readily apparent from the FSM or the TSBs, but, let's summarize that your main goal is to remove the front roof garnish with the sunvisors STILL ATTACHED! to that front roof garnish.

That's the plan.

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tangalora
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 8:51 pm
Car: 1990 Q45

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BTW, both the FSM & the TSB clearly state the front roof garnish (just above the windscreen) is heavy and needs to be supported at all times.

Actually, the front roof garnish weighs about half a pound. That's not even close to being heavy. Each sunvisor weighs about a pound. So the entire assembly (garnish + both sunvisors) weighs less than a small bag of groceries.

What the FSM & TSBs should really note is that the front roof garnish is not very strong and that the combined edge-tipped weight of the two sunvisors could cause the lightly built front roof garnish to buckle like a weightlifter's barbell if you don't support the each sunvisors with one hand as you remove & replace the combined unit.

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tangalora
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Car: 1990 Q45

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Before I go any further into the tangalora-recommended way to properly remove & replace the sunvisors, I must state the following shortcut unequivocally:You could Remove & Repair each sunvisor without removing ANY trim whatsoever!
  1. You'd simply remove the sunvisor vanity mirror sub assembly (as noted in this thread) and cut both vanity-light wires ...
  2. Pry off the sunvisor pivot escutcheon ...
  3. Remove the two #2 phillips screws (holding the sunvisor to the metal roof)
  4. Then remove the one #1 phillips screw (holding the sunvisor to the front roof garnish) ...
  5. Lastly, simply pull the sunvisor assembly from the front roof garnish, leaving all wires dangling from the opening in the front roof garnish (making sure to collect the metal washer, coil spring, and press-on nut) ...
  6. Replacement would simply be the reversal of this procedure, healing the cut wires by soldering & heatshrinking tubing over the damage (as explained previously).[/list=a]

    While this shortcut would work, for a Removal & Repair (where you have to cut the wires anyway), I do NOT RECOMMEND this shortcut for a Removal & REPLACEMENT (where you wish to keep the connector wires fully intact).

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tangalora
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Car: 1990 Q45

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I realized this quick cut-the-wires shortcut would work (for a REPAIR) only AFTER I had completed the job following the ritual FSM & TSB process (which stipulates the removal of the A & B pillar trim & front roof garnish).

Also, I realized, for the complete removal & replacement (w/o cutting any wires) that MORE TRIM (rather than less trim) should be removed than I actually removed.

For example, I got away with NOT REMOVING the front & rear kick plates (called "kicking plates" on page BF-23 of the 1990 Q45 FSM); but I should have removed both kick plates on each side in order to make the job of REASSEMBLING the B-pillar garnish easier (interestingly, dissassembly of the B-pillar garnish didn't require kick-plate removal).

Why remove A & B pillar garnish anyway?

Basically, the whole point of removing the A and B pillar garnish was to get to that single white butterfly clip on each side of the front roof garnish.

And the whole point of removing the front roof garnish (with the sunvisors attached) is merely to prevent having to cut the vanity light wires.

It's a domino thing. Like preventing communism from spreading.

Henceforth, in this thread, I'll describe the proper factory stipulated domino method of removing & replacing Q45 sunvisors (with the intent of keeping the wires intact!), trim after trim, after trim.

Again, I repeat, if you already know you're going to cut the wires anyway, you may not wish to follow the factory-stipulated proper ritualistic R&R procedure I am about to describe next. Caveat emptor.

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tangalora
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Car: 1990 Q45

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FACTORY suggested R&R of the Q45 Sunvisor Assembly

1. Remove the driver-side front and rear door Kickplates (see 1990 FSM pages BF-22) by prying on the metal cover plate & removing the #2 phillips screws holding the kick-plate plastic to the doorway threshold.

2. Move the driver-side front seat bench and back-rest as far forward as both will go (so as to clear the way to the B Pillar Garnish).

3. Pull the driver-side shoulder mounted seat belt as far out as it will go, securing the end so that the seat belt hangs loosly (out of your way).

4. Remove the B-Pillar Garnish by prying first at the top to pull the two horizontally parallel metal clips away from their holes in the B-Pillar ... then prying at the middle of the B-Pillar Ganrish to remove the middle set of two horizontally parallel metal clips ... then at the bottom to remove the last two of the six metal clips holding the B-Pillar Garnish to the B-Pillar. Lastly, unhook the B-Pillar garnish from the kickplates in each driver-side doorway (if you did not previously remove the front and rear driver-side kick plates).

5. Lay the B-Pillar Garnish across the floor in front of the rear seat of the Q45 (the seat belt is still attached so you will not remove the B-Pillar Garnish from the car).

Note: You really do NOT have to remove the kick plates nor do you have to remove the center & bottom portion of the B-Pillar Garnish ... just the top portion needs to be pulled outward about 3 inches ... but the sunvisor R&R job is easier if you remove the entire B-Pillar garnish (as stipulated in the FSM). Remember, I'm showing you the ritualistic domino method here, as stated in the FSM & TSB.

6. Remove most of the driver-side doorway cloth-encased two-ply rubber weatherstripping by pulling it away from the door frame with your hands. You can stop at the dashboard as you do not need to go lower (to remove the A-Pillar Garnish).

Note: It helps to have removed the front and rear driver-side doorway kickplates (as stated previously); but it is not required.

7. Remove the A-Pillar Garnish by pulling, one by one, on the 6 metal clips (you'll likely break one or two in the process), starting from the B-Pillar and working your way toward the A-Pillar and eventually down to the top of the dashboard for the last of the 6 metal clips and a single plastic post which fits into an alignment hole in the A-Pillar itself.

8. Place the A-Pillar Garnish on the back seat of the Q45 to prevent damage.

Now move your attention to the front seat center console roof line components. (Remember, all you're trying to do is remove the Front Roof Garnish with the sunvisors attached.)

9. Gently pull off the small 6 x 2 inch plastic centerline sunvisor off the rear-view mirror assembly horizontal J clip.

10. Pry off the square plastic escutcheon over the rear-view mirror attachment point in the center of the Front Roof Garnish.

11. Remove the hinge for the centerline sunvisor by removing two #2 phillips head bolts (the only bolts in the entire R&R procedure) holding the hinge to the rear-view mirror assembly.

12. Remove the rear-view mirror assembly by removing the three #2 phillips screws holding the rear-view mirror to the roof.

13. Pry off the Sunroof Control Panel Switch Assembly and disconect all three connectors ... one white connector will be for the driver & passenger front map lights, another white connector will be for the sunroof mechanism, and don't forget the all-important third black connector which is for both sunvisor vanity mirror lights.

Note: If it wasn't for this connector, and the desire not to cut the sunvisor vanity mirror wires ... you wouldn't be removing all this trim in the first place.

14. At this point, repeat all the trim-removal steps for the passenger-side of the Q45.

Note: If you are replacing only one sunvisor, you can get away with not removing the entire Front Roof Garnish; which means you do not have to remove the kick plates, B-Pillar Garnish, doorway weatherstripping & A-Pillar Garnish of the opposite side; but, I repeat, the proper ritualistic domino-theory of the FSM stipulates to remove the Front Roof Garnish with both sunvisors still attached (that's why they say it's heavy).

15. Remove the small plastic escutcheon covering the J-hook for both the driver side and passenger side sunvisor horizontal post.

Note: The sunvisor J-hook is the small plastic hook on each side of the center of the Front Roof Garnish which keeps the sunvisors in place when swiveled down.

16. Remove each sunvisor J-hook by removing the one #2 phillips screw holding it to the roof.

17. Finally, remove just the two larger #2 phillips screws holding each sunvisor (both driver side and passenger side now) pivot point to the roof of the Q45.

Note: Leave the smaller pivot point #1 phillips screw alone; this screw only holds the sunvisors to the Front Roof Garnish (not to the roof itself).

16. Back to the B-Pillars, pry off the 1-inch diameter white plastic anchor clip holding the Front Roof Garnish to the B-Pillar.

Note: This puny clip, one on each side of the car, is why you had to remove all that B-Pillar & A-Pillar trim!

17. Now the Front Roof Garnish is ready for removal (with both sunvisors attached). At this point, the admonishment about the garnish being heavy should be taken to mean the garnis, by virtue of it's material and the holes cut out in its centerline for the rear-view mirror and sunroof control switch, is VERY WEAK IN THE CENTER.

So SUPPORT both sunvisors (which are still attached to the Front Roof Garnish in this classic factory-stipulated ritualistic R&R process) while you maneuver the Front Roof Garnish around.

Note: You now have only clips (nothing bolted or screwd in) holding the Front Roof Garnish to the roof.

18. To remove the Front Roof Garnish, first pull horizontally BACKWARD toward the rear of the Q45 with both hands on the Front Roof Garnish and your body sitting in the driver's seat leaning across the center console (take aspirin as a prophylactic against lower back pain before this step).

This horizontal backward maneuver will unclip the four evenly spaced three-fingered spring clips holding the Front Roof Garnish to the roof via the sunroof ledge. (Note, because of these 4 three-fingered clips, you can not remove the Front Roof Garnish by pushing horizontally forward!). You just have to know this.

19. Then, to finish the removal of the Front Roof Garnish with the sunvisors still attached, you now have to change your motion to a horizontal side to side yank and pull so as to clear the B-Pillar attachment points (which are those white 1-inch diameter butterfly clips previously removed).

Note: The Front Roof Garnish is not clipped in at the windscreen point. It merely fits into a groove provided for it at that point. Also note, if you forget to remove a single screw or clip as described above, you will NOT be able to remove the Front Roof Garnish. Lastly, if you forget to unclip the aforementioned three harness connectors, you will also have a problem removing the Front Roof Garnish.

20. That's it (whew!) You now have the Front Roof Garnish removed with the two sunvisor assemblies still attached, as stipulated in both the FSM and in the TSBs.

Very Important Note: The 20-step removal detail described here is vastly more complete than the six-step process outlined in page BF-26 of the 1990 Q45 Factory Shop Manual; and it's even more complete than the more detailed nine-step ritualistic domino sequence outlined in the aforementioned TSBs.

Note: Reassembly is the reversal of disassembly (literally, just work backward from above).

Note: I was going to post detailed photos of each of the steps above; but you can see why (at least tonight) that would take me HOURS to complete. Also note, I REPAIRED (not just replaced) both visors, running into a host of issues all by themselves - one of which was the el cheapo metric die set I originally bought made a royal mess of the passenger side sunvisor aluminum post - so I had to run to Sears to purchase a better Craftsman set ... they only had English in stock - so I cut the passenger side to 5/16 x 24 (with the driver side cut to a metric 8 x 1.25). Call me unconventional if you will.

Additionally, I learned the DEALER was a CHEAT! They had replaced the passenger-side sunvisor INCORRECTLY! Yup. All they did was CUT THE WIRES in the roofline (as I noted in my el quickie not-recommended shortcut prior). The nerve of them. They didn't even cut the wires unevenly; nor did they even solder them. Heck, they had more than one inch of copper intertwined together (there should only be a few millimeters). I replaced their crappy twisted-wire connection with a set of soldered press connectors (as will be explained some other day). Sigh. If you can't trust the dealer, whom can you trust? (Nico ???)

HeavyDuty
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Thanks for the write up & subsequent time saving repair vs muddling through it individually. Every time a passenger gets in my car, I forget to warn them not to release the sun visor. The drivers side is ok, but the pass side swings from the gallows when deployed.

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Q451990
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Quick... somebody take Tangalora's post and make it an article before it gets lost! I'm not kidding - you should be somewhere writing TSBs or instruction manuals!

Heath

maxnix
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Q451990 wrote:Quick... somebody take Tangalora's post and make it an article before it gets lost! I'm not kidding - you should be somewhere writing TSBs or instruction manuals!

Heath
Second! There are no better articles than well written ones, except for well written illustrated ones.

I have saved the last post in Word and PDF format.

Jberger
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Great article, Thanks for the write up. I'll be using it soon!


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