Q45 Performance Camshafts?
Q45 Performance Camshafts?
Hello, I am building 94 Q45 motor for a customer. I have built a lot of race motors. This is the first motor I have had problems locating parts for. I am assuming not to many people are modyifing these earlier motors. Any help would be appreciated. TIA Tony
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AZhitman
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Tony - Take a stroll over to the Infiniti Online Mechanic forum and do some reading - Search for posts by q45tech, and also read the thread "Hi-power VH45DE" in the Engineering Forum. Good stuff.
Unless you are skilled at working with VERY close tolerances (beyond the scope of most machine shops), you (and your customer) are in for some disappointments. No offense, but this ain't an old pushrod 5.0 or SBC you're working with.
Secondly, the VH45DE is pretty much maxed out as it is from the factory. If the 6-bolt mains and cross-bracing didn't give you a clue, this is a seriously over-engineered motor. Not much "hidden horsepower" to be gotten here.
Unless you are skilled at working with VERY close tolerances (beyond the scope of most machine shops), you (and your customer) are in for some disappointments. No offense, but this ain't an old pushrod 5.0 or SBC you're working with.
Secondly, the VH45DE is pretty much maxed out as it is from the factory. If the 6-bolt mains and cross-bracing didn't give you a clue, this is a seriously over-engineered motor. Not much "hidden horsepower" to be gotten here.
Tolerances are 3-4/10000 inch at the factory.
We do have a member who somehow manged to successfully rebuild a VH45de anyway with good results ( just a rebuild tho, not for performance)
One area it can do with some improvement is better rings if you want it to carry some boost.
rest of hardware is pretty strong.If its a 94 engine, perhaps you can substitute the 92 and earlier part# exhaust valves ( I presume they fit), Those are sodium filled unlike the 94's.
Since its VVT, I am not sure how much extar different cams would give, unless you want to boost and remove some of the high rpm overlap?
To my knowledge after market cams currently dont exist, but email some of our australian members like "AGM" who have done a lot of work on these engines and are always good for a surprise in those matters.
Fred...
We do have a member who somehow manged to successfully rebuild a VH45de anyway with good results ( just a rebuild tho, not for performance)
One area it can do with some improvement is better rings if you want it to carry some boost.
rest of hardware is pretty strong.If its a 94 engine, perhaps you can substitute the 92 and earlier part# exhaust valves ( I presume they fit), Those are sodium filled unlike the 94's.
Since its VVT, I am not sure how much extar different cams would give, unless you want to boost and remove some of the high rpm overlap?
To my knowledge after market cams currently dont exist, but email some of our australian members like "AGM" who have done a lot of work on these engines and are always good for a surprise in those matters.
Fred...
From B.A.D.,(Birkmeier Automotive design)This was our former club store, which offered a lot of delicous stuff for our cars.
But when it came out, we were a much smaller club and simply couldn't support such an ambitous tuner.
BRM is our house brand now and they are focusing on quality exhausts for Nissan/Infiniti Products and are working on a good 90/96 Q45 exhaust now.
Their SPEC V exhaust was voted #1 by a major magazine.
BRM may still have access to some of the old production contacts from B.A.D.Still a <lot> cheaper than the Stillen 4.08 rear end.back then The BAD 4.08, was 1k.You send in your stocker it comes back a 4.08.Stillen was well over 2 k $$ , I think.
Good quality re-work too on the BAD, unlike most rear diff- redos.Mine has seen repeated 550hp NOS powered quarter mile runs and still works fine after 40,000 miles.
Dr Birkmeier is a very busy MD these days, with his own large practice, so dont expect a 1 week (or even 2 week) turnaround, even if we do manage to hook you up.
We also looked thouroughly into installing 300ZX 4.08's, but unbelievably, there was always <something> preventing a proper fit to the Q.
Fred...
But when it came out, we were a much smaller club and simply couldn't support such an ambitous tuner.
BRM is our house brand now and they are focusing on quality exhausts for Nissan/Infiniti Products and are working on a good 90/96 Q45 exhaust now.
Their SPEC V exhaust was voted #1 by a major magazine.
BRM may still have access to some of the old production contacts from B.A.D.Still a <lot> cheaper than the Stillen 4.08 rear end.back then The BAD 4.08, was 1k.You send in your stocker it comes back a 4.08.Stillen was well over 2 k $$ , I think.
Good quality re-work too on the BAD, unlike most rear diff- redos.Mine has seen repeated 550hp NOS powered quarter mile runs and still works fine after 40,000 miles.
Dr Birkmeier is a very busy MD these days, with his own large practice, so dont expect a 1 week (or even 2 week) turnaround, even if we do manage to hook you up.
We also looked thouroughly into installing 300ZX 4.08's, but unbelievably, there was always <something> preventing a proper fit to the Q.
Fred...
dkill:
I never had a chance to notice a reduction in top end since I have yet to take this car to 160-170mph, but if you look at the revs you will see that no reduction in top end is expected to occur.
As for the 4.08 I currently cant tell how much it adds as my car is currently hampered by a wrong JWT ecu that limits my rpm to 6500 instead of 7300 ( JWT).
Lopping off 10% of your upper revs on a multivalve VVT engine means you lose a lot of extra power and sometimes induce a extra shift.
I havent had the time to fix it in the 11 months I owned this car as I would need JWT cooperation.
You you hear so many horror stories of folks getting the run around just wanting to buy a part and give them money I can just imagine what would happen with the solution needed for this.
We have a member aaacomp, who does Q45 chips as well and most that have dealt with him were very satisfied ( there was one exception) .
So I cant take full advantage of the 4.08 with ym lower redline.
But I can say that my milage seems unaffected maybe because it helps keep the engine nearer its efficiency bad for the sporty driving I tend to do?Also, it allows me to keep the stick in "D" rather than my previously habitual "3" for in town driving.
I say drivability has improved as a result of the shorter diff, but I cant make any tru performance comparisons as my numbers have been disapointing, which i suspect is due to my reredline problem.
A consensus exists, that a quality chip like JWT is very worthwhile and most (but not all) feel the 4.08 is worthwhile as well.
Fred...
I never had a chance to notice a reduction in top end since I have yet to take this car to 160-170mph, but if you look at the revs you will see that no reduction in top end is expected to occur.
As for the 4.08 I currently cant tell how much it adds as my car is currently hampered by a wrong JWT ecu that limits my rpm to 6500 instead of 7300 ( JWT).
Lopping off 10% of your upper revs on a multivalve VVT engine means you lose a lot of extra power and sometimes induce a extra shift.
I havent had the time to fix it in the 11 months I owned this car as I would need JWT cooperation.
You you hear so many horror stories of folks getting the run around just wanting to buy a part and give them money I can just imagine what would happen with the solution needed for this.
We have a member aaacomp, who does Q45 chips as well and most that have dealt with him were very satisfied ( there was one exception) .
So I cant take full advantage of the 4.08 with ym lower redline.
But I can say that my milage seems unaffected maybe because it helps keep the engine nearer its efficiency bad for the sporty driving I tend to do?Also, it allows me to keep the stick in "D" rather than my previously habitual "3" for in town driving.
I say drivability has improved as a result of the shorter diff, but I cant make any tru performance comparisons as my numbers have been disapointing, which i suspect is due to my reredline problem.
A consensus exists, that a quality chip like JWT is very worthwhile and most (but not all) feel the 4.08 is worthwhile as well.
Fred...
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Unfortunately the 15.4% upgrade with the 4.083 still leaves the 4 speed unoptimized for zero to 30/60/100 mph acceleration.Yielding only 1525/10mph in 1st shifting around 42 mph instead of 50 mph [stock] and way short of the more typical 2,000 rpm/10 mph [32-33 mph] on modern 5/6 speed AT and manuals.
The transmission gear span ratio is just wrong for any rear ratio up to a 4.700 diff gear IF you wanted to maximize acceleration and complete the quarter mile at 6800 in 3rd gear......or just maximize zero to 60 mph.
The Q leaves 0.3-0.5 seconds on the table in order to provide seemless acceleration from 50-90 mph without a time robbing shift in the 63-73 mph range.........from the not so fast shifting [smooth] 4 speed AT.
The cheapest 0.3 secs comes from the JWT ecu as it has no reoccuring fuel cost.........except at WOT.........actually it gets better MPG at WOT than stock due to the 10-15% leaner flow.
The transmission gear span ratio is just wrong for any rear ratio up to a 4.700 diff gear IF you wanted to maximize acceleration and complete the quarter mile at 6800 in 3rd gear......or just maximize zero to 60 mph.
The Q leaves 0.3-0.5 seconds on the table in order to provide seemless acceleration from 50-90 mph without a time robbing shift in the 63-73 mph range.........from the not so fast shifting [smooth] 4 speed AT.
The cheapest 0.3 secs comes from the JWT ecu as it has no reoccuring fuel cost.........except at WOT.........actually it gets better MPG at WOT than stock due to the 10-15% leaner flow.
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maxnix
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1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
Write it in stone
Please, Mr. Article manager, quote this succinct reply in the FAQ under changing the differential ratio.Q45tech wrote:Unfortunately the 15.4% upgrade with the 4.083 still leaves the 4 speed unoptimized for zero to 30/60/100 mph acceleration.Yielding only 1525/10mph in 1st shifting around 42 mph instead of 50 mph [stock] and way short of the more typical 2,000 rpm/10 mph [32-33 mph] on modern 5/6 speed AT and manuals.
The transmission gear span ratio is just wrong for any rear ratio up to a 4.700 diff gear IF you wanted to maximize acceleration and complete the quarter mile at 6800 in 3rd gear......or just maximize zero to 60 mph.
The Q leaves 0.3-0.5 seconds on the table in order to provide seemless acceleration from 50-90 mph without a time robbing shift in the 63-73 mph range.........from the not so fast shifting [smooth] 4 speed AT.
The cheapest 0.3 secs comes from the JWT ecu as it has no reoccuring fuel cost.........except at WOT.........actually it gets better MPG at WOT than stock due to the 10-15% leaner flow.
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Tgvince
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Hey Palmer...Drop me an email at [email protected] I may have a solution to your worries about getting what you need from JWT.
Terry
Terry
Re: Write it in stone
maxnix wrote:Please, Mr. Article manager, quote this succinct reply in the FAQ under changing the differential ratio.
Brian:I dont think any of the above threatens the rationale of the 4.08 swap, except that it isnt neccessarily a vehicle, to better quarter mile times or normal speed passing time.
better leverage is still expereinced at many speeds.ericsanmiguel supposedly got a 94 down to low 14's with 4.08 and JWT if his post was correct.
Fred...
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maxnix
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1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
Re: Re: Write it in stone
Maybe so, but in everyday driving, which is the purpose for which I use my car, I do not want that shift between 50 and 80 at WOT when I am passing on the highway. Neither do I want to leave the closed loop mode before 75 mph.PalmerWMD wrote:Brian:I dont think any of teh above threatens the rationale of teh 4.08 swap except that it isnt neccessarily a vehicle to greater quarter mile or normal speed passing time.
better leverage is still expereinced at many speeds.ericsanmiguel got a 94 down to low 14's with 4.08 and JWT if his post was correct.
Fred...
It's all about compormises, and I think with the four speed automatic, Nissan made some good choices in gear ratios. A five speed would be a marked imiprovement, but it would probaly entail a shift in that critical 50- 80 mph passing speed range at WOT.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
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HeavyDuty
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Stoplight to stoplight, rolling into the throttle my car is a mutt getting out of the hole, -or- stomp it & it blows the tires off. I'm awaiting a spare 90 diff, that one's going in & a 3.8 or 4.08 is going in my current one for some personal impressions in all areas, not limited to 50-80 or 1320. Right now I'm thinking 3.8.
Terry, Fred, if, by chance, a 90-93 would work temporarily in your 94, my known good stock ecu will be available soon for loan out while your's (or anyone else's) is at Camp JWT. Mine has spent Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Year's 03 so far, I'm hoping to have it back by Valentine's Day.
Not knocking them, they do awesome work, it's time consuming, tedious stuff & everyone in the world has 1000 excuses why they need theirs back sooner, it just is what it is.
Terry, Fred, if, by chance, a 90-93 would work temporarily in your 94, my known good stock ecu will be available soon for loan out while your's (or anyone else's) is at Camp JWT. Mine has spent Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Year's 03 so far, I'm hoping to have it back by Valentine's Day.
Not knocking them, they do awesome work, it's time consuming, tedious stuff & everyone in the world has 1000 excuses why they need theirs back sooner, it just is what it is.
Re: Re: Re: Write it in stone
[quote=" maxnix Neither do I want to leave the closed loop mode before 75 mph.
you hit the nail on the head with this observation! I like to run 75-79 mph,just under the 2500rpm cutoff all day long on the highway!__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
Discover the power of the button! [/quote]
you hit the nail on the head with this observation! I like to run 75-79 mph,just under the 2500rpm cutoff all day long on the highway!__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
Discover the power of the button! [/quote]
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AZhitman
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Terry - I'm interested in what you have to say about the ECU issue as well.
Of course, you have my email and phone #....
Tony - If you don't mind changing out the axle stubs, you can use the 4.08 R200 out of a 90-96 300ZX non-turbo. The flanges are the only difference (5-bolt vs 6-bolt). Identical otherwise.
Of course, you have my email and phone #....
Tony - If you don't mind changing out the axle stubs, you can use the 4.08 R200 out of a 90-96 300ZX non-turbo. The flanges are the only difference (5-bolt vs 6-bolt). Identical otherwise.
I am the customer that Tony mentiones at the start of this thread. I have three Q45. Two 96 unmodified. One has extensive track time, until I bought the 94 project vehicle. The 94 - 96 generally have/use the same parts.
The 94 is painted in Dupont Crome-illusion, fitted with cage, striped and has otherwise been extensively modified, exhausting Stillens ability long ago. They had a change in agents helping me, and I lost one of my best resources. I have over 6,000 none-competition track miles on tracks up and down the east coast; Watkins Glen, VIR, Summit Point, etc.
There are three problems with the Q on track, rear brakes, over-heating and excessive tire roll. The AP 6-piston front brakes have helped with the rear situation, but I can still go through rear pads in 100 - 200 miles. Stillen Metal matrix performance pads actually melted onto the rotors. Pad composition has made no differnce, from OEM to Hawks.
More important on this thread is the overheating engine. That caused damage to the heads a couple years ago and may have impacted the current damage -- and hence the current work. I am running the modified Stillen chip.
When it comes to gaining performance I looking for more out of corners, whether its turn ten at Summat at 85 mph, or coming out of a turn at 30. I do not need performance from the stop.
I run most tracks in second to 90 mph, which leaves little time in third.
I hope this helps understand where we are trying to go with this.:help :help
The 94 is painted in Dupont Crome-illusion, fitted with cage, striped and has otherwise been extensively modified, exhausting Stillens ability long ago. They had a change in agents helping me, and I lost one of my best resources. I have over 6,000 none-competition track miles on tracks up and down the east coast; Watkins Glen, VIR, Summit Point, etc.
There are three problems with the Q on track, rear brakes, over-heating and excessive tire roll. The AP 6-piston front brakes have helped with the rear situation, but I can still go through rear pads in 100 - 200 miles. Stillen Metal matrix performance pads actually melted onto the rotors. Pad composition has made no differnce, from OEM to Hawks.
More important on this thread is the overheating engine. That caused damage to the heads a couple years ago and may have impacted the current damage -- and hence the current work. I am running the modified Stillen chip.
When it comes to gaining performance I looking for more out of corners, whether its turn ten at Summat at 85 mph, or coming out of a turn at 30. I do not need performance from the stop.
I run most tracks in second to 90 mph, which leaves little time in third.
I hope this helps understand where we are trying to go with this.:help :help
I urge anyone who wants to learn about the tuning potential of the Q, to talk with Glenn aka aaacomp. I talk with him once every two weeks for at least an hour.
His Q has the JWT chips and the 4.08 gears. He sells JWT coded chips. I believe he has also hollowed out the pre-cats.
The man knows cars especially the Q. He has raced and built race motors. He has the experience, intelligence and connections to go with it.
Anyway, he has a wealth of knowledge that should be tapped into.
His Q has the JWT chips and the 4.08 gears. He sells JWT coded chips. I believe he has also hollowed out the pre-cats.
The man knows cars especially the Q. He has raced and built race motors. He has the experience, intelligence and connections to go with it.
Anyway, he has a wealth of knowledge that should be tapped into.
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maxnix
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1995 Infiniti Q45t
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dgoodno, welcome to the board. Running a stripped (which may also have a stripe) Q45 with a roll cage on race tracks in non-competitive events is indeed an unusual use. There is another member who autocrossed his fully stock one once.
Does it run on racing fuel without catalytic convertors? Are you required to keep the mufflers on some tracks? Did the Stillen pads melt on the rear rotors, but not the front?
Q45tech has a custom radiator made by Griffin, but they may not have the specifications any more. A good chance some of our brethern in hot climates may be interested in one if they can be produced again. There certainly seems to be room for a thicker one without the included ATF heat exchanger.
Please do provide more modification specifications and pictures when you get a chance. HAve you ever seen the old Geoff Brabham Q45 at any of these events?__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
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Does it run on racing fuel without catalytic convertors? Are you required to keep the mufflers on some tracks? Did the Stillen pads melt on the rear rotors, but not the front?
Q45tech has a custom radiator made by Griffin, but they may not have the specifications any more. A good chance some of our brethern in hot climates may be interested in one if they can be produced again. There certainly seems to be room for a thicker one without the included ATF heat exchanger.
Please do provide more modification specifications and pictures when you get a chance. HAve you ever seen the old Geoff Brabham Q45 at any of these events?__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
Discover the power of the button!
Brian,
Thanks for the welcome. I have had the Q on the track for several years. Every once in a while another Infiniti will show up, but they never stay around.
I'm currently street legal, but barely. The catalytic convertor will go off during the current modification. There are sound restrictions at most tracks, but that has not been an issue for me yet.
The exhaust has a nice throaty sound from a Stillen muffler and air intake. I have not been using racing fuel. There is little consistancy between tracks -- I generally drive with Car Guys Inc. They rent the track for the weekend and provide other support.
Yes, the rear pads melted. I didn't have problems with the front when stock, and with the AP on the front this is even less of an issue. On the front I get 3,600 track miles between pad changes. The rears I change every weekend.
I was driving up to three Infiniti during an event. They usually break into four run groups. I'd drive a G20 in the beginners group -- good picture passing a Porsche 911 Turbo; the stock 45t in the second group and the project car in the third. Those weekends always kept me busy.
Now I'm a little less aggressive. After I warped the calipers on the stock -- yes calipers, not rotors -- I stopped running it on track and my daughters G has been sold and no longer available to me.
I will add more later.:ylsuper
Thanks for the welcome. I have had the Q on the track for several years. Every once in a while another Infiniti will show up, but they never stay around.
I'm currently street legal, but barely. The catalytic convertor will go off during the current modification. There are sound restrictions at most tracks, but that has not been an issue for me yet.
The exhaust has a nice throaty sound from a Stillen muffler and air intake. I have not been using racing fuel. There is little consistancy between tracks -- I generally drive with Car Guys Inc. They rent the track for the weekend and provide other support.
Yes, the rear pads melted. I didn't have problems with the front when stock, and with the AP on the front this is even less of an issue. On the front I get 3,600 track miles between pad changes. The rears I change every weekend.
I was driving up to three Infiniti during an event. They usually break into four run groups. I'd drive a G20 in the beginners group -- good picture passing a Porsche 911 Turbo; the stock 45t in the second group and the project car in the third. Those weekends always kept me busy.
Now I'm a little less aggressive. After I warped the calipers on the stock -- yes calipers, not rotors -- I stopped running it on track and my daughters G has been sold and no longer available to me.
I will add more later.:ylsuper
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maxnix
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1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
Good information. So the rears are stock? i wonder if the vented rear rotors from the J would help? Last I checked with Joe, there were no Stillen drilled rear rotors for the J. Maybe AP or Brembo on the rear?
I wonder if the stock rear pads did more of the work than usal while the presumably harder front pads on the AP were warming up to operating temperature? Extreme driving conditions are a good laboratory.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
Discover the power of the button!
I wonder if the stock rear pads did more of the work than usal while the presumably harder front pads on the AP were warming up to operating temperature? Extreme driving conditions are a good laboratory.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
Discover the power of the button!
Brian,
The rear calipers are stock. The rotors were Stillen slotted and drilled. When their "perforemance" pads melted they gave up on me, said that they were not a race shop, but a performance shop == that I had exceeded their abilities to support me.
The rear break issue was addressed to Steve himself during one of my visits to CA and he said that improving the rear braking capibilities would not solve the problem, nor would using a proportioning valve.
When hot I often have metal on metal. Can't tell when on the track, only when they start to cool down.
I will get a picture on, but first have to figure how to get down to 300 x 300 dpi. It's after midnight here and I need to go to bed so the guards can turn the generator off -- yes, I will explain that someother time.
The rear calipers are stock. The rotors were Stillen slotted and drilled. When their "perforemance" pads melted they gave up on me, said that they were not a race shop, but a performance shop == that I had exceeded their abilities to support me.
The rear break issue was addressed to Steve himself during one of my visits to CA and he said that improving the rear braking capibilities would not solve the problem, nor would using a proportioning valve.
When hot I often have metal on metal. Can't tell when on the track, only when they start to cool down.
I will get a picture on, but first have to figure how to get down to 300 x 300 dpi. It's after midnight here and I need to go to bed so the guards can turn the generator off -- yes, I will explain that someother time.