Premium fuel

[MinisterofDOOM]

You have still refused to argue why you are right about regular being just as good as premium.

He might have refused, but I made that point already. Lower octane fuels actually have HIGHER energy content. Which means if your car runs RIGHT with regular (no need or use for higher octanes) you're BETTER off with regular. That's ignoring detergents, which are often left out of regular grade gas by many chains. Higher energy content means more efficient consumption. And at a lower cost already, you're winning twice. If you go to a station worth its salt, like Chevron, you get your detergent with that, so triple win.

Premium ONLY EVER helps if your car NEEDS it to avoid knock. That's it. That's the only benefit. In all other situations, lower grades are superior (ignoring, once again, detergents).

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Premium ONLY EVER helps if your car NEEDS it to avoid knock.

Can we amend that statement to say "Premium ONLY EVER helps if your car NEEDS it to avoid knock while running under normal conditions"?

I say that because like what has been said before, if I put regular in my Prelude (high compression engine), it won't knock, but that's only because the ECU has retarded the timing (probably because it started to detect slight knock). Either way, it doesn't "NEED" it, but it is definitely in my best interests to run it.

[numbnuts240]

you're not bright at all.

lolwut?

[telcoman]

Premium is on average 20 cents more per gallon. A 20 gallon tank will cost you an extra 4 bucks. boo hoo, its really not that bad.

It is when you drive 2k miles a month
Premium is a waste of money

Telcoman

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I almost feel like the people that claim premium is a waste of money are also the people that go out and buy 2-3 coffees and/or ice coffees and smoke a pack of cigarettes per day.

[PEZi]

I FEEL LIKE I SHOULD SHOUT!






YES...






LOUD NOISES!

[PoorManQ45]

I almost feel like the people that claim premium is a waste of money are also the people that go out and buy 2-3 coffees and/or ice coffees and smoke a pack of cigarettes per day.

to clarrify, again, if your required does not REQUIRE premium to prevent detonation then it is a waste. To clarrify further, if your car will run at regular tune, not limp mode, with regular then premium is a waste.

[Ace2cool]

clarrify

clarrify

Clarify.

[OriginalWheelman]

As far as the 240sx...

The 240 does NOT require premium. The S13 owners manual says 91 RESEARCH octane. In the US, we us the (R+M)/2, or the average of the two. Now the M rating is about 8 lower than the R rating. So 91 Research octane is about 87 (R+M)/2 Octane, or REGULAR FUEL.

I've had this discussion with more than one person but I keep hearing this "the owners manual calls for premium" crap.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

to clarrify, again, if your required does not REQUIRE premium to prevent detonation then it is a waste. To clarrify further, if your car will run at regular tune, not limp mode, with regular then premium is a waste.

Just because the ECU retards the timing to prevent detonation doesn't mean its in "limp mode".
It is running at a less than optimal cycle in order to accommodate the limp wristed junk you put in the tank. This less than optimal cycle DOES hurt your fuel economy and DOES hurt your performance, as long as the ECU/engine is intended to run on premium in the first place.

By your logic, we shouldn't even sell premium, because the only thing that needs it is non-computerized carbureted high compression race engine.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Just because the ECU retards the timing to prevent detonation doesn't mean its in "limp mode"..

Right. This isn't a binary, on-off thing. Even with good fuel, engine management is constantly adjusting these same things according to conditions. It's a dynamic, constant thing. The difference (in cars where this applies) is that running premium allows for a greater operating range for those parameters, while regular restricts you to what's safe for that fuel.

All that about "smart" modern engines aside, though, it's very important to remember this:
Your engine has to DETECT knock to adjust for knock. Knock sensors simply "listen" for it. Which means it IS happening, just not as often as it would with a "dumber" engine. And knock is not ideal in any situation.

I personally didn't buy a V8 performance car just so I could throw that performance out the window in exchange for a few cents.

[Speedy7_7]

Didn't the OP state that the manual he was reading said it required premium?
I am arguing to run what the manual recommends. I understand that regular has more energy content than premium, thats what can make it prematurely detonate, causing knock.

If your car does not require premium, running it is useless.
If it does require premium, not running it is retarded, just like your timing.

Are we all arguing the same points with different evidence? Gotta love winter, I AM MAD AT EVERYONE!!!!!!

Sorry guys.

[Mr1der]

[MinisterofDOOM]

Didn't the OP state that the manual he was reading said it required premium?

That's exactly the issue: interpretation of the manual's recommendation, which is worded in "coverourassese" and nowhere near clear.

[Speedy7_7]

Ahhh i see now that it involves math and other tidbits of the mindworks I am lacking at the moment. I will continue to run regular in my normal cars and e 85 in any turbo cars I have at one time. E85 so much win for so little money. No its not perfect, race gas is better, please don't bite my head off.

[OriginalWheelman]

really.

hell, I had to run premium in my old Supercoupe...it's honestly not that bad.

took me a while to break the habit of running 93 in my Civic but I still run mid grade just because. I need to get a premium fuel flash from Hondata...

There is no difference in running 93 vs 87 in our Civic. I know because out of habit I always hit the 93 button when I put gas in Nxer's car. However, I loaned the Q45 to my sister and she put regular in it ( ) and it ran like crap till I got 93 in it again. Just goes to show what people have said, use what your car calls for.

[Mr1der]

yeah, my Si runs fine on regular. I want the ecu flash so I have a higher rev limiter and advanced timing.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I understand that regular has more energy content than premium, thats what can make it prematurely detonate

That's not correct at all. Regular has a lower octane than premium, and THAT, by definition, is what can make it prematurely detonate.


And furthermore guys, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more and more new cars coming out that recommend premium fuel. This is how the manufacturers will most likely be setting up/testing their cars so that they can get the best possible fuel economy, helping them meet the CAFE standards. Notice the window sticker on your car doesn't have fuel economy ratings for both premium and regular fuel (for a vehicle that recommends premium)

[PoorManQ45]

smurf, my statement was clear.

if the car can run on regular without detuning then putting anything more. in it is a waste.

a vehicle retarding tining to prevent detonation is detuning. a higher octane should be used.

[PEZi]

smurf, my statement was clear.

if the car can run on regular without detuning then putting anything more. in it is a waste.

a vehicle retarding tining to prevent detonation is detuning. a higher octane should be used.

^ and that is contradictory

a car can run on regular without detonating due to detuning

now will you please STFU!?

[PoorManQ45]

what are you idiots not getting?

if the car is designed to run on premium, but will detune to allow regular, you should use premium as it makes a difference.

if the car is designed for regular without detuning then you should not waste money on premium.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Yeah I get what you're saying now, but it definitely wasn't clear before.

OR, you could run premium in car that was meant to run on regular, and just advance the timing or something.

[Ace2cool]

Yeah I get what you're saying now, but it definitely wasn't clear before.

OR, you could run premium in car that was meant to run on regular, and just advance the timing or something.

Did that in my buddy's air-cooled go-kart. Overheated it. Multiple times. Last time it wouldn't crank over.

[PEZi]

what are you idiots not getting?

why the f*** you're still allowed to post here...

[Razi]

what are you idiots not getting?

why the f*** you're still allowed to post here...

Yeah I don't get that either.

[Ace2cool]

I use magical Fuzzball raep juices in mah car and it runs purrty. :

[Razi]

And it's free too!
What a deal!