Painting a 240sx

[blank]

Have you looked into the CFM need to pain? Just curious to know what size compressors needed to do something like this. You deficiently need to make a guide or document this as much as possible!

[blkvrtswp]

I am researching compressors now. The HVLP gun I bought says it needs 12 SCFM @ 40 psi. Wow - that is high for any sub-$500 compressor. My borrowed contractor compressor is probably not going to provide over 4-5 SCFM @ 40 so I am going to research Sears, Home Depot and other sources to see what goes on sale between now and June.

If I end up buying something new I would probably sell it when done. I'm also going to watch craigslist for something used. I had a Sears one for a long time but hardly ever used it so I sold it in 2008.

Some things I have found out about the compressor:

> 4 HP or higher seems to be required to get over 10 SCFM @ 40
> Nailers and air tools do not need as much CFM as painting. DA sanders are the exception. Contractor job site portable compressors are going to probably be rated too small by half or more.
> I have not seen one compressor under $200 rated at more than 6 SCFM yet.
> If the compressor is too small it will cycle a lot or run constantly, this causes more condensation and if water gets to the gun you are in big trouble.
> Many people have done fine with compressors rated much lower than their guns. On a small car, with pauses between coats, some folks have had no problems.
> Pro tip - coil long air hose in a cooler or bucket filled with ice to keep the condensation water from reaching the gun.
> More expensive paint guns can use as low as 4 SCFM.

I also forgot to add the $25 plastic / flex additive needed for the FRP front lip & side skirts and the urethane bumpers, rear valence pieces & spoiler. I emailed thecoatingstore.com Sunday afternoon, got a reply on Sunday night (!) adding the item to my order, saving me $16 in shipping. +1 to them for customer service already.

http://shop.thecoatingstore.com/QuadFle ... F777-Q.htm

[liquid_cool]

I am researching compressors now. The HVLP gun I bought says it needs 12 SCFM @ 40 psi. Wow - that is high for any sub-$500 compressor. My borrowed contractor compressor is probably not going to provide over 4-5 SCFM @ 40 so I am going to research Sears, Home Depot and other sources to see what goes on sale between now and June.

If I end up buying something new I would probably sell it when done. I'm also going to watch craigslist for something used. I had a Sears one for a long time but hardly ever used it so I sold it in 2008.

Some things I have found out about the compressor:

> 4 HP or higher seems to be required to get over 10 SCFM @ 40
> Nailers and air tools do not need as much CFM as painting. DA sanders are the exception. Contractor job site portable compressors are going to probably be rated too small by half or more.
> I have not seen one compressor under $200 rated at more than 6 SCFM yet.
> If the compressor is too small it will cycle a lot or run constantly, this causes more condensation and if water gets to the gun you are in big trouble.
> Many people have done fine with compressors rated much lower than their guns. On a small car, with pauses between coats, some folks have had no problems.
> Pro tip - coil long air hose in a cooler or bucket filled with ice to keep the condensation water from reaching the gun.
> More expensive paint guns can use as low as 4 SCFM.

I also forgot to add the $25 plastic / flex additive needed for the FRP front lip & side skirts and the urethane bumpers, rear valence pieces & spoiler. I emailed thecoatingstore.com Sunday afternoon, got a reply on Sunday night (!) adding the item to my order, saving me $16 in shipping. +1 to them for customer service already.

http://shop.thecoatingstore.com/QuadFle ... F777-Q.htm

Iv'e painted a few cars with a 5 gal husky compressor before, it depends on the gun and the paint!
I have 5 guns for painting with
3 sata for primer and sealer
1 iwata supernova for heavey metalics
1 iwata supernova hybrid for clears and candys.

i donot paint everyday, thats not what i do for work..it was one of my duitys for a race team i used to be apart of.."to make things clear" i am not a pro at paint..

the paint's i prefer to use
Nasson by Dupont
chroma base by Dupont
Dupont hot hues
House of Kolor

to break it down for you..good paint cost money! 1 quart of hot hues cost upto $600. bucks depending on the color, same with house of kolor, that can allso run into the 500 ranger per quart easy..
If your just doing a OEM paint..try the nasson brand, it's 120+ a GALLON for 1 shot! and sprays close to the hot hues brand paint.with the other systems they are at least 2 part..so you will have to buy the matching clear aswell, not to mention the activator and reducer..ect.the Chroma base brand paint is rite in the middle of the hot hues and nasson brands..really good quality and great sprayability with consistant color saturation .

a decent home paint job could cost as little as $400. bucks with nasson brand paints, 120 a gal for color, 85ish for primer + the activator and reducers.

as far as spray guns go..you really do get what you pay for!

My sata's all cost over $500. each, there great guns and i have had many years use out of them. it's my opinion that they are the second best gun in use today.the Iwata supernova's i have with cups and caps, regulators are over $1000. each..this is my preferd gun for color and especially clears or candys...do you need a gun like this...not really..you could get by with a husky gun..i did for a long time..cheep and effective but not consistant.

[liquid_cool]

your best bet is to find a decent used gun on ebay or craigslist so you can get the best possible finish..i hope this makes sence, im really beat from work..lol..and i hope this helps

[blkvrtswp]

Thanks for the comments, liquid_cool!

I decided to go with basecoat / clearcoat and not single stage, because I read when spraying on the SS you are applying the color and the shine at once. Gun control looked more critical with single stage because of this. I chose BC / CC which separates the color application and the shine application so I can concentrate on each separately.

SS prices are much cheaper than the BC CC kit prices, around $110-$170 for a sprayable gallon.

I also wanted ALL the paint, reducer, activator, primer, sealer and wax cleaner from the same company. I read a lot of bad stories where the bottom line was "Well, you can't use X brand sealer under the Y brand base product because of a reaction between them."

Given these requirements, I checked on some BB /CC prices.

HOK Shimrin - base plus clear 1 gallon of each $240 + $177 = $417 then add activator, sealer and surface cleaner, tax or shipping.... let's stop here. This is a low budget $400-$500 paint job. Now maybe it covers better so you can use much less, but it is still out of my reach for a 1st time paint job.

Dupont Chromabase - also too expensive for my project, over $500 for the liquids.

Dupont Nason - clear w/ activator ~$110 + base w/ activator ~$130 (hard to find prices online) = $240. Looks like Nason would be within the budget too.

PPG Omni - paired with the correct color sealer, people have had good results, this can be 1/3 the price of PPG's next higher line. I cannot find prices online but would expect them to be similar to the Nason prices. A definite contender.

Eastwood (online, eBay) - good feedback, prices were around $290 for a kit with a gallon of color & clear with activators. A bit more expensive - on the upper edge of the budget. I felt if I was going to go with a relatively unknown paint brand, thecoatingstore.com was a good amount cheaper.

TCI Products (online, eBay) - another small brand with relatively good reviews, well within the budget. They just did not have a BC CC deep blue color I really liked. Probably my 2nd choice.

thecoatingstore.com (online, eBay) - I went with this brand, I read that they are former HOK people (unconfirmed) keeping the cost down by having zero marketing or office expenses. Price and customer service, shipping all excellent so far.

[vrizi]

I have done quite a bit of painting. I would look and see if anybody in your area carries matrix brand of paint. It is a very good paint that lays down nice, and covers well. Also not a very expensive paint. The color requires only your color, and a reducer,.. mix 4-1. Use a high solid clear. Matrix clear does not get reduced. Just mix it with your hardner. Alot of other higher priced brands require much more mixing, and do not cover as well. The more you have to mix with your actual pigment, the more you are thinning it, and the more coats you will have to use to cover. As far as a gun goes,... good luck with the harbor freight. They are very inconsistant in their spraying, but you might get lucky. Find a paint supplier and look at what they have in there. Devilbiss makes a decent gun that is not obsenely priced. When it comes to painting the car,... practice on something else first with some cheap paint. It takes practice to get a nice finish. Make nice even stokes back and forth releasing the trigger at the beginning and end of each stroke, and slightly overlap each pass. not enough and it will come out dry,.. to much and it will run. As far as prep goes,.. you don't need to sand it, just use a grey scotch bright pad, and some commet,..works great. All you are trying to do is scuff up the existing clear to get a good bond with the new paint. Make sure that you get rvery little nook and craney, or you will end up with places that will start to peel. Before you paint, blow eveything off with a blow gun, and then wipe it down with a degreaser. Any oils at all even natural oils from your skin at this poit will cause fish eyes in your paint. After it has been wiped down, then tack it off and you are ready too shoot. I hope this helps,.. and good luck with it.

[liquid_cool]

i can agree with some of what the above poster says,,BUT!..preping determines the end result!..just becouse your not using X-brand paint, doesnot mean it has to look like you rattle can'd it allso...sanding your old finnish with 180 grit will give a good solid base for the primer to set to...and sanding that primer smooth in stages 180, 400 , 600..with a board sander and block sanders will give you a show room finnish you can be proud of..if your going to take the time to invest in your ride, then go all the way and do your best to achieve the best possible result

[liquid_cool]

P.S. that shimerin price is a really good price btw..cheeper than i can get where im at by a couple 100 bucks..

[vrizi]

If you are going to prime the car then yes, you do need to use 180 to take it down and then keep using fine paper to get the sand marks out till you get to 400. Then prime it, hten use a guide coat,(black sprey paint lightly misted). Then you need to block it.(wet sand with a block with 600 till the black speckle are gone. This will show you where any little imperfections are at. then you can prime and do it again till perfect. But if the existing paint on it is not lifting anywhere or have check marks in it then it is not necesary to prime it which is why I said to just scuff it to get the new paint to adhere. Then with 3 good coats of high solid clear, colorsanding and buffing will bring it to a mirror finish.

[blkvrtswp]

Thanks guys - I appreciate the advice!

I concluded from reading many forums that if you do it right (prep surface & use the correct chemistry) you can get excellent results with just about any paint brand or system. If I was planning on painting more than just the one time here (I sadly do not even have a full time garage to park in...) I would have spent more on the gun and paint.

I have 3 dents I am going to have paintless dent removal done. There will be zero body filler and I am not even planning on using a surfacer primer coat - just a sealer spray over the existing scuffed/sanded OEM finish. QuadFlex adhesion promoting primer is misted on before the sealer on plastic bumpers, spoiler, side skirts and lips.

As far as the compressor, I would want oilless, at least 6 SCFM / 2+ hp, at least 15 gallons, 1/4" outlet. The best one I found under $200 was on Harbor Freight $179 + $7 shipping. $7 shipping!!!

I am not too worried about the potentially low SCFM. I am painting all the panels off the car, hood doors etc, so the sustained spraying will be at a minimum. As long as I stick to using at least a 6 SCFM compressor it should be fine.

http://www.harborfreight.com/18-horsepo ... 68066.html



Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, Northern Tools - I saw nothing under $450 that had more SCFM @40. This one on HF is pretty good/cheap, but I think I can choose from several friends to borrow so I am going to wait and see what their specs are, to try to keep to the budget. I also saw 3 good ones on craigslist for under $250 - one had 11+ SCFM, 8 HP.

[blkvrtswp]

Paint and liquid supplies have arrived from The Coating Store, only took 5 days. They included paint measuring cups and filters and stirrers plus fully detailed info sheets for application instructions.





Base, Clear, Reducers and Activator.



Primer Sealer with reducer and activator, final wipe cleaner, Flex additive for plastic parts.

[blkvrtswp]

I bought an excellent compressor on Craigslist. A 10-15 year old Campbell Hausfeld Medallion Series Professional. I think it was around $600-800 new, Home Depot's upper line at the time. Retired guy who rebuilds lawn tractors in his garage as a hobby. He just bought a new 80 gallon compressor, the best reason to sell a working compressor!

He had it listed for $250 but had no sale because it is 240v only, so he dropped it to $150. I have a dryer plug 240v right next to the garage I am painting in. I had him plug it in and watched it cycle. Nice and quiet, took less than 5 minutes to hit 120psi.

• - 30 Gallon tank - plenty big enough for painting, reduced cycling / heat

• - 11.5 SCFM @ 40 psi - perfect for my paint gun, zero compromise

• - New gauge and drain valve installed, well maintained and not used commercially

• - Belt drive 6 HP, rebuild parts found easily

There were a couple of other good options on Craigslist for $215 & $250 for similar specs.

[blkvrtswp]

I stopped in 2 local paint supply shops and was unimpressed to say the least. Prices were DOUBLE what I found online for paint and 3M tape, tack rags. No discounts for a one-time customer like me. I will be using http://www.tciglobal.com for tack rags, masking tape, sandpaper and other paint supplies due to their selection and prices.

Just about everything else has arrived, all from Harbor Freight except the power cord. I picked up a 2nd paint gun from HF for the primer when it went on sale for $13. Also grabbed a nail/staple gun for the convertible top replacement for $17 with a coupon.



In this picture, total spent = $150.00

$17.00 - Staple/Nail Gun
$29.00 - 12 CFM Paint Gun with gauge/regulator
$13.00 - 6 CFM Paint Gun
$ 5.00 - Paint Gun Cleaning Kit (a small kit also comes with each gun)
$ 9.00 - 25 foot PVC Air Hose
$ 6.00 - 12 foot Rubber Air Hose remnant
$ 9.00 - 3 Red gun-end disposable Air Filters
$ 7.00 - 1 Oil / water Separator
$ 3.00 - 1 Pair Chemical Splash Safety Goggles
$15.00 - Respirator Approved for isocyanate paint spraying
$ 9.00 - 3 Brass Air Line fittings Kits
$ 4.00 - Air blow Gun with extension
$ 3.00 - 1 Bottle Compressor Oil
$17.00 - 10 foot 240 volt dryer cord for wall outlet (Amazon)
$ 4.00 - 240 volt plug for compressor end (Amazon)

Ok, I'm almost ready to get to work! Except for one pesky thing..... NY Winter.

[blkvrtswp]

I received most of the remaining supplies, including body filler and a can of etching primer for spots where I have to go to bare metal. I am now watching youtube videos on fixing surface imperfections like a couple of dings and scratches I have. I am skipping the paintless dent removal - too much money. I think most of my dings will be fixed by tapping out from behind and using a small amount of filler or high-build primer and sanding smooth. I have 4 or 5 areas to work on, I will get some pictures.

Remaining items to find or buy:
> 2 fans
> Fluorescent light fixtures
> Saw horses / workbench, hangers
> Paint gun holder for paint filling & pauses
> Masking paper / newspaper
> 2 box filters
> Thin plastic sheeting
> Cleaner for spray gun

I got the car out of storage 2 weeks ago, and took it to a drift practice at Lime Rock last week to spectate. It was 40 degrees - the top remained up. Next up is test fitting the body parts, then replacing the top. I decided it would be easier to keep the paint off the new top than keeping the top replacement job from scratching the new paint.

Paint Job Tools & Supplies Total Spent (so far) $755.00

$284.00 .............TheCoatingStore.com - BC/CC Kit w/ primer/sealer, surface cleaner, plastic flex adhesion promoter, shipping
$173.00 .............Used CH 240v compressor + 240v cord & plug
$144.00 ............ Harbor Freight - 2 spray guns & cleaning supplies, compressor hoses, filters, oil & fittings, blow gun, respirator, safety goggles
$154.00 .............TCP Global - Body filler, paint stirrers, sandpaper & block, ScotchBrite pads, tack cloths, paint filters, dust masks, masking tape, etching primer, mix cups

The car rolls into the garage for painting prep right around June 1st.

[blkvrtswp]

Some progress.

Test fitting side skirts and rear valence.


Front end stripped: bumper, fenders and hood.


Windshield trim removal.


A little more rust than I expected but still no big deal.


Rear bumper, taillights, all trim, top removed.


Doors are all ready to come off with just the bolts. Just about ready to start fixing the surface rust on the windshield, then scuffing the OEM paint and fixing some scratches and dings.

[blkvrtswp]

For the trim, I recommend powder coat. I sprayed mine with plasticoat and I haven't been impressed. I'll be redoing mine with powdercoat when I do a full teardown and respray.

Dude, that is a great idea. I'm definitely going to do this when I take my car in for the paint. I might even get them coated in a dark charcoal metallic (It looks good in my head, but I'll have to mock something up on the car to make sure ).

I'm thinking black chrome powdercoating for the 3 top well trim pieces, and plasticoat the same color for the door window belt trim, since it is not metal and cannot be powdercoated.

I might even try coating the windshield glass rubber trim and the vert top windshield edge trim the same color since they are pretty faded too. WTH - it just peels off if it looks bad.

Hijacker - what did you not like about the plasticoat?

[pepesilvia]

this is a thread I've been following closely. i wish i could find a cheap compressor that outputs enough CFM to run my HVLP but no such luck. cant wait to see how yur paint job turns out, good luck!

[blkvrtswp]

This weekend I got 10 hours work in. 90 degree plus high humidity here in NY everyday in July so far is killing me. (I'm a desk jockey...) Work is going a little slower than I hoped, but I am getting things done.

The car is completely stripped, all rust removal completed, now ready for POR-15 on the rusty areas.



I used a wire wheel on the windshield top. Notice the gap in the 3rd picture - this area was stuffed with 'body caulk' that thick non-hardening black stuff. There is also some body filler under there - notice the white spots along the top edge.







The body caulk was also all over the top of the top well edges. Nasty, and when I started to peel it off it was looking scary for a minute with all the rust. But it is nothing, just rust around the mounting holes and it all cleaned up nicely. It was a LOT of work scraping all that goop off but it is all done and clean and ready for POR-15. I also had some surface rust in the channel under the studs, some more power drill wire brushing and that is also ready for POR-15.









Also I have decided to try black PlastiCoat on the exterior trim, including top well trim, door window trim, windshield trim, mirrors, cowl, wiper arms, and windshield seal trim. Can't beat $6 per can from Home Depot, and if I don't like it I can always just peel it off and respray with regular flat black. Powder Coating was considered, but half of the parts are plastic and cannot go in the oven.

I also seriously considered a new PlastiCoat color Anthracite metallic dark grey, but with shiny Indigo blue paint, I think flat black is the way to go.
https://www.dipyourcar.com/product.php? ... =39&page=1



Also here is the 'body caulk' I bought on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PE ... UTF8&psc=1

[pepesilvia]

i bought that anthracite plastidip a few weeks ago like as soon as it came out. it's definitely the sexiest plastidip color available. unlike the flat white's, and flat blacks, the anthracite looks closest to real paint. i highly recommend it

[sebazztard]

lots of prep work for a vert! i think i would have paid someone lol. i was in your area a few months back, i only caught a few s14's. good luck on the project, its coming along well.

[blkvrtswp]

^ Thanks, I commute 70 miles a day and in the past 4 years I have seen only two 240SXs on my ride. I have seen more Lambos on the Taconic Parkway then 240s! Everyone must keep them hidden away during the day here.

This heat wave is killing my progress! Too hot to go after work for only 2-3 hours. POR-15 arrived, compressor plug changed (my bad) - I am going to shoot for Saturday and try to arrive at like 6am so the air conditioner I stick under the garage door can have time to keep up!

Plans are to finish the rust rehab with the POR-15, clean the new paint guns thoroughly (oils and stray silicone sealant inside it can screw up the paint job), get the last of the glue residue off the top front section and use an impact driver to get the final stubborn door latch screw out on one side.

I also want to stop by a windshield glass replacement shop and see if they will sell me some generic push-in T-shaped trim to replace the used stuff I have.

[Hijacker]

You mentioned that you don't want to PC some of the parts due to them being plastic. Contact JGT Customs. They're one of our sponsors on NICO and situated in Southwest Virginia. Todd has PCed plastic valve covers and what not. He might be able to do some of the pieces you've got.

Whatever that caulk is on your quarter panel, I think it was added post-assembly of the car by someone. I've had my trim off a few times now and don't recall anything like that under mine.

[blkvrtswp]

Actually I just today saw a pic on Zilvia of another vert with the same giant mess I had. The pics of mine above are after I started to pull it back - originally it was flat, hugged the edge and was covered with clear looking tape on top.

Thanks for the PC idea!

[Hijacker]

Must be the wonderful "quality control" from ASC. I have some of that stuff sill in flat chunks in the interior. Usually covering unused holes. Figured it was for NVH

[sebazztard]

taconic. hate that drive. i worked a short time downstate before i got transferred. huge snowstorm and plain pick up trucks with plows are out there. what a joke. i think its nys in general, i rarely see anything s chassis related, esp up in my area.

[blkvrtswp]

Finally got a break in the super-humid weather on Sunday, so I was able to make some more progress.

First some pics of my garage setup - thanks to my parents for the use of the big clean space. I have my compressor all setup with oil separator and dirt-cheap hoses and fittings. No leaks! The compressor still had 10 lbs of pressure in it from January - so I would say the seals are excellent. Plugged into the 240 volt dryer outlet, and I have a convenient circuit breaker to flip in the garage electrical panel.









Finished up all rust rehab with 3 coats of POR-15. Windshield top and rear window curtain channel now all sealed up. This would never have been seen or fixed if I had the job done by a regular paint shop so I am glad I went DIY.

Rear channel & edges, trunk floor spot:









Top of windshield:







Next up: Learning how to use a spray gun, initial gun setup, daily driver new front bumper and fender to be painted single-stage metallic gray for practice. Then panel prep, scuffing good OEM paint, and fixing scratches and dings.

[Caveit77777]

Looks like a lot of work and a lot of learning but also a lot of saving. Definitely going to start following this thread!

[cc240]

"Thanks, I commute 70 miles a day and in the past 4 years I have seen only two 240SXs on my ride. I have seen more Lambos on the Taconic Parkway then 240s! Everyone must keep them hidden away during the day here."

Used to drive the Taconic quite a bit in the mid-70's, between Rt 44 and Underhill Rd. I guess they have taken some of the fun out of it by widening parts since then. Was especially fun in my next door neighbor's 240Z.

[drifteds14]

thats what you're going to run into for a legitamate paintjob. Mine is going to be about $1000, and thats with a buddy discount. +1

[blkvrtswp]

Finally done chasing rust. Found a lot on the rear bumper core and a bit on the bottom of the fenders. All sealed up now.









I love this picture - looks like my car exploded! Running a little behind schedule, but sanding and bondo for 5 surface spots will be done this week. I hope to be spraying next week.