One Step too far? Palin takes on Michelle Obama

[AZhitman]

she is as old as my mom. civil rights was passed in the same year, but that doesnt mean cultural acceptance.

She's still full of s*** if she wants you to think she had to drink from the "Colored" fountain at ANY point in her life.

She's 5 years older than me. My elementary school had "White" and "Colored" drinking fountains too - But the lettering had been painted over some years prior. Still readable.

Don't let people fool you. They're counting on you thinking things were SO different "back then" (because they're courting the youth vote), but they're feeding you crap.

[AZhitman]

I love you and your crazy uncle.

[heliochrome85]

You better, because he'll be the one to pick up the phone when your Dell breaks.

[heliochrome85]

she is as old as my mom. civil rights was passed in the same year, but that doesnt mean cultural acceptance.

She's still full of s*** if she wants you to think she had to drink from the "Colored" fountain at ANY point in her life.

She's 5 years older than me. My elementary school had "White" and "Colored" drinking fountains too - But the lettering had been painted over some years prior. Still readable.

Don't let people fool you. They're counting on you thinking things were SO different "back then" (because they're courting the youth vote), but they're feeding you crap.

crap tastes like tang. i love tang. im a child of the 80s.

[heliochrome85]

lastly
this is because im tired, and it feels like a sound way to end the night...

[AZhitman]

You better, because he'll be the one to pick up the phone when your Dell breaks.

[heliochrome85]

LOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZz

man, that was unexpected, funny, and not even remotely topical.

im so glad, my presence here has left some impact.

carry on

good night ladies, and gentle-ladies.

[heliochrome85]

also i really hope branden uses it. i dont know what made me think of that when i was responding to his status the other day, but its pretty good.

[dusred]

i didnt say anything about her being immune. Palin is free to criticise. i just questioned the value of attacking a woman who is fairly popular amongst people on both ends of the political spectrum and across gender demographics. If you want to criticise, bring an actual argument.

its a cheap dig which plays to palin's fan base.

What would you consider a valid argument to what Mrs. Obama said?

MO is in the public eye and Palin is free to criticize her. If Mrs. Obama took a cheap jab at Palin I wouldn't have a problem with it either. Is what I'm trying to understand is why you're so concerned about Palin's reputation? It seems like you'd be silently cheering that Palin has mad an a** out of herself again rather than coming here and saying "ZOMG Palin hurt her own reputation".

I'm not saying I agree with what Palin said. . .in fact Palin has had a few dull moments of her own.

[BusyBadger]

Just a couple of things...

on a side note, im sorry, but i have to say, i really have to take issue with the position that you seem to have taken that she was unpatriotic. Since when was criticism unpatriotic? if anything, its the most patriotic thing you can do. Why? Because when you criticize you point out flaws, in order for some sort of fix to be implemented.

Are you implying that all criticism is of the constructive sort? If so I recommend a dose of "reality" from Glenn Beck.

you forget that she was born into a country where she had to use colored faucets...

its a bit of a difference from the america you grew up with.

She grew up in the South Shore area of Chicago, while it's not the Gold Coast it's also not what Cabrini Green used to be or what State Street & Garfield or 66th & Yale are now. With an overwhelmingly black population (90%+) I think she had little problem with signs on the water fountains. But the 70% that's getting tossed around isn't about her background and where she's come from it's what she's doing now, or at least it should be. I'm surprised the number is that high after some high profile Obama fans like Maureen Dowd and Katie Couric expressed more than mild disapproval of the FLOTUS trip to Spain.

I suppose in tough economic times like these fewer Americans are buying ginkgo biloba.

[heliochrome85]

i just think its a dumb move. my feelings about palin are unchanged.

[heliochrome85]

also, im not saying that she was one walking by lynchings every day, but its still fairly reasonable to think that in 64, the country wasnt ready for Civil Rights. it needed to be done, and some people are still not over it.

also, the south side is black now. was it always such? was it so overwhelmingly black back then too? i think not. not that it really matters, your point isnt without validity, im just saying that ultimately, she was born into a time where blacks and whites didnt mix, and now her husband is President. It is a thing of awe, regardless of ones theory of how we got there.

[AZhitman]

And none of that is disputed.

But words mean things, and she has been misleading. She never had to drink from a "Coloreds-Only" watre fountain. She was never refused service at a restaurant or establishment. Has she "experienced" racism? I'm quite sure. But big effin' deal. Rise above, and quit making up tall tales, because I HATE LIARS.

And her comment that initiated this thread (and SP's slam on her) remains, as before, unpatriotic and ill-advised.

[UpStar]

i just think its a dumb move. my feelings about palin are unchanged.

No doubt. Very dumb move and hardly calculated by this air head of a woman. If given the opportunity she'll say what ever she needs to say in order to move her mindless point. This is typical! Remember, this is the same chic who quit her position as governor without any real reason and now she want to question someone's comments on being a proud American. STFU Palin!

[dusred]

this is the same chic who quit her position as governor without any real reason

Damn. I almost forgot.

[AZhitman]

What a bunch of apologists.

UpStar, after reading that drivel, I wouldn't be calling anyone an "airhead".

I've seen drunk stroke survivors write more comprehensibly.

[AppleBonker]

Preface: I browse this section quite frequently, but I don't know that I am on the intelligence level of some of you fine folks so I generally refrain from posting. I would like to point out that reading the intelligent debate provided by at least some of the members does make me feel legitimately smarter. So thanks.

Having said that, Greg, I am seeking clarification on your comments. You seem to have a problem with the "for the first time I am really proud..." statement. I know you have kids, so are their varying degrees of proud that you feel towards them? As in, you may be proud when they get a good grade on a test but do you feel more proud when they achieve something most would consider monumental? Say, joining the armed forces or getting married? At some point wont one of your kids accomplish something that makes you feel more proud of them than you ever have before? And if that happens and you explain that it is the most proud you've ever been of them (or that this is the first time you've reached a certain level), would it be fair to interpret that as you were never proud of them before that moment? Yeah, I know it's a weak analogy, but either way I think the original comment was blown too far out of proportion.

To be completely honest, there have been a lot of times that I have NOT been proud of this country. If you feel that is unpatriotic, I'm ok with it. If you want to tell me to GTFO, that's fine too. Though I'm not about to leave, as sometimes I need to decide between the lesser of two evils.

[dusred]

Preface: I browse this section quite frequently, but I don't know that I am on the intelligence level of some of you fine folks so I generally refrain from posting. I would like to point out that reading the intelligent debate provided by at least some of the members does make me feel legitimately smarter. So thanks.

We may yell, scream, insult, and punch each other but at the end of the day we're one big happy family. There are those of us who are super smart and some that are a little more dull. I think I'd have been thrown out a long time ago if being dull would get you banned. If you have something to say say it but you'll find as I've found you'll usually end up learning from those you disagree with.

I know you have kids, so are their varying degrees of proud that you feel towards them? As in, you may be proud when they get a good grade on a test but do you feel more proud when they achieve something most would consider monumental? Say, joining the armed forces or getting married? At some point wont one of your kids accomplish something that makes you feel more proud of them than you ever have before?

So your kid does something great that really makes you proud. . . like joining the armed forces putting his/her life on line for others. That makes you damn proud, right Greg? I imagine it does. So do you go to that son/daughter of yours and say "son, for the first time in my life I'm proud of you" what do you think he's going to think? If it's a she she might break down and start crying.

And if that happens and you explain that it is the most proud you've ever been of them (or that this is the first time you've reached a certain level), would it be fair to interpret that as you were never proud of them before that moment?

Michelle said "for the FIRST TIME in my adult life. . . ". Call me an idiot but I interpret that to mean that she has never been proud of her country before.

Yeah, I know it's a weak analogy,

Okay. I'm glad we can agree on something.

[wingFeather]

she was born into a country where she had to use colored faucets

Gold, silver and copper.

[AppleBonker]

Michelle said "for the FIRST TIME in my adult life. . . ". Call me an idiot but I interpret that to mean that she has never been proud of her country before.

False. She said for the first time I am REALLY proud. Meaning she had never been REALLY proud before. That does not mean she had never been proud before. While I agree that it may be possible to word what she said better, if you look at the absolute literal translation, you can NOT interpret that to mean she has never been proud before.

Let me try this again. Say I lock you in a room with no food for a few days (my guess is you've never gone that long without food before). Would it be possible that you'd come out saying "for the first time in my life I am REALLY hungry"? This wouldn't mean, however, that you had never experienced hunger before. This was just a whole new level of hunger to you.

The fact is, if you don't like BO or MO, you're going to find something to criticize. IMO, this comment about being really proud is so insignificant it shouldn't be on the radar for your criticism. And to be perfectly honest, if you are Palin and you're going on the attack, why this? You honestly can't find anything better to attack? BO hasn't pushed to implement any policies that you feel are more problematic? MO hasn't said or done anything to support one of those policies that you fought strongly against? This is like me getting pissed at terrorists because they're wearing yellow shoes.

[dusred]

She said: "For the first time in my adult lifetime, I’m really proud of my country … not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change,” . . . “I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment."

Let me try this again. Say I lock you in a room with no food for a few days (my guess is you've never gone that long without food before).

I went 10 days without food once, dawg. So I can relate to your analogy.

Would it be possible that you'd come out saying "for the first time in my life I am REALLY hungry"? This wouldn't mean, however, that you had never experienced hunger before. This was just a whole new level of hunger to you.

I've been avoiding opening this can of worms for obvious reasons but here goes (puts flamesuit on). Michelle's comment alone shouldn't warrant that much attention and controversy, but you couple it with Obama's past associations with the American hating Bill Ayres (I know, he's a "reformed terrorlst". Here's a pic of him: http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/wp ... /ayers.jpg), his refusal to wear an American flag pin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmHtGQq-z_Y if you want to see what he said about it), and his refusal to put his hand on his heart for the Star Spangled Banner to salute the flag (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU9iCANi02o). That makes me take a second glance when his wife makes a comment like that.

Can you imagine what would happen if Rush, Sean, or Beck made a comment like that? You, Mr. Bonkers, would be on the other side of the fence.

if you are Palin and you're going on the atttack, why this? You honestly can't find anything better to atttack?

I don't blame you for not watching Fox News but if you do Palin is on there almost daily attacking the Obama's for something. Sometimes she has a legit point and sometimes it's just worthless garbage. Is it annoying seeing grown-ups go at each other like 8th grade girls fighting over a pencil? Yes. What has happened to honor in politics?

[dusred]

I just found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fl4v_QD ... re=related

She didn't say REALLY in that one. Was it chopped? It was Fox. . .

[AppleBonker]

I've been avoiding opening this can of worms for obvious reasons but here goes (puts flamesuit on). Michelle's comment alone shouldn't warrant that much attention and controversy, but you couple it with Obama's past associations with the American hating Bill Ayres

I've got plenty of friends who believe things that sound ludicrous to me. Associating with someone doesn't guarantee that you agree with everything they think. I've got gay friends, and while I support them, I am not gay myself. I've got friends who are pro-life. Friends who are pro gun control. The list goes on and on.

his refusal to wear an American flag pin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmHtGQq-z_Y if you want to see what he said about it)

I thought his explanation was solid. I'd rather he explain his platform and demonstrate how his goals are patriotic.

and his refusal to put his hand on his heart for the Star Spangled Banner to salute the flag (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU9iCANi02o)

I've probably heard the star spangled banner before and not put my hand over my heart. I dunno, seems like a bit of a trivial gesture.

That makes me take a second glance when his wife makes a comment like that.

So those simple and minor tasks make her appear to be unpatriotic? And she must hate the US? If that's all it takes, would you have considered the 9/11 terrorists patriotic had they crashed planes while singing the national anthem and saluting the flag all while wearing flag pins? Certainly that can't be enough to negate their actions. The same should hold true in both directions.

Can you imagine what would happen if Rush, Sean, or Beck made a comment like that? You, Mr. Bonkers, would be on the other side of the fence.

Not entirely true. I'd never attack them for a lack of patriotism. I would, however, criticize their blatant hypocrisy.

I don't blame you for not watching Fox News but if you do Palin is on there almost daily attacking the Obama's for something. Sometimes she has a legit point and sometimes it's just worthless garbage. Is it annoying seeing grown-ups go at each other like 8th grade girls fighting over a pencil? Yes. What has happened to honor in politics?

And I actually do watch Fox News occasionally. I also have listened to Rush. I don't tend to agree with any source that leans too much one way or the other, so in these cases I've viewed for comedic purposes. But, if Palin has all of that ammo, why even bring this up? Again, it's trivial. Don't waste time on it, reiterate the important issues.

I just found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fl4v_QD ... re=related

She didn't say REALLY in that one. Was it chopped? It was Fox. . .

Didn't try to examine closely enough to see if it was edited. But, she could've gotten up there and said I hated this country up until a few years ago and I would've had no problem with it. Could just be me though.

And, more importantly, if you (not directed at you, but the one who made that video) are trying to make a reasonable argument for or against something, your message may get across to more people if you don't objectify women immediately afterwards. I lolled.

[dusred]

I've got plenty of friends who believe things that sound ludicrous to me. Associating with someone doesn't guarantee that you agree with everything they think. I've got gay friends, and while I support them, I am not gay myself. I've got friends who are pro-life. Friends who are pro gun control. The list goes on and on.

There is the old saying "you know who you are by the friends you keep". None of the examples listed are in the same category as a terrorlst. The racist Rev. Wright and Bill Ayres are in a category all of their own. Obama, to his credit, did quit going to the church but still he went there for 20 years. I get what you're saying about having diverse friends. Hell, I've got Liberal friends and I think I can still call myself normal.

I thought his explanation was solid. I'd rather he explain his platform and demonstrate how his goals are patriotic.

Sounds fair enough. I don't exactly agree with you but I respect your opinion.

I've probably heard the star spangled banner before and not put my hand over my heart. I dunno, seems like a bit of a trivial gesture.

That's fine if you feel that way. Many (myself included) feel that it's disrespectful at a formal event to not put your hand on your heart at the raising of the flag and the singing (or playing) of the Star Spangled Banner.

So those simple and minor tasks make her appear to be unpatriotic? And she must hate the US? If that's all it takes,

Nope. That's the point of this whole discussion. Each single little thing isn't the big deal but when you combine it with the bigger picture it seems a bit strange. A hard core Conservative friend of mine said "Each unpatriotic thing adds pieces to the Obama puzzle". Meh.

Not entirely true. I'd never atttack them for a lack of patriotism. I would, however, criticize their blatant hypocrisy.

I would attack them for both. But hey, that's the difference between you and me.

And I actually do watch Fox News occasionally. I also have listened to Rush. I don't tend to agree with any source that leans too much one way or the other, so in these cases I've viewed for comedic purposes.

Same here. I watch Jon Stewart for the same reason except he actually professes to be a comedian (and he is pretty funny sometimes). The reason I view Rush as comedic material is because he's actually serious. Every once in a while you can dig a coin out of the pile of horse s*** that comes out of his mouth.

Didn't try to examine closely enough to see if it was edited. But, she could've gotten up there and said I hated this country up until a few years ago and I would've had no problem with it. Could just be me though.

Well, in your previous arguments you were putting weight on the fact that she said "really been proud of my country" so I was just showing you that some videos show that she didn't say "really". I guess there were 2 different parts in her speech (assuming that last link wasn't edited).

And, more importantly, if you (not directed at you, but the one who made that video) are trying to make a reasonable argument for or against something, your message may get across to more people if you don't objectify women immediately afterwards. I lolled.

Yeah I saw that that's why I wondered about the video being edited. I couldn't find her not saying "really" in any other video (granted, I didn't spend much time looking).

[AZhitman]

she was born into a country where she had to use colored faucets

Gold, silver and copper.

WIN.

[AZhitman]

Preface: I browse this section quite frequently, but I don't know that I am on the intelligence level of some of you fine folks so I generally refrain from posting. I would like to point out that reading the intelligent debate provided by at least some of the members does make me feel legitimately smarter. So thanks.

...you're fitting in just fine, and intelligence isn't the "deciding factor" - it's effort. Nicely done, sir.

[AppleBonker]

...you're fitting in just fine, and intelligence isn't the "deciding factor" - it's effort. Nicely done, sir.

But it is a deciding factor for me. I say a lot of dumb stuff on this site, but it is almost always intentional. I'm far less pleased by my dumb comments when I believe them to be intelligent. Additionally, I don't put enough research into many of these topics for me to form a reasonable opinion which would make my argument more valid. I could certainly go and debate the theory of relativity with a physics professor, but I don't think he'd gain much (and eventually he'd stop paying attention to me entirely). While I may have an enormous ego, I am still able to recognize when I am the moron in the debate, and at that time I try to respectfully bow out.

[AppleBonker]

That's fine if you feel that way. Many (myself included) feel that it's disrespectful at a formal event to not put your hand on your heart at the raising of the flag and the singing (or playing) of the Star Spangled Banner.

Who is that disrespectful towards? A lot of times I rebel against societal norms. If society tells me "this is the way it's done" I tend to go against it. Just because I can. And I'm sure a lot of people find that disrespectful. Or offensive. But in this specific case, who would I be disrespecting?

Nope. That's the point of this whole discussion. Each single little thing isn't the big deal but when you combine it with the bigger picture it seems a bit strange. A hard core Conservative friend of mine said "Each unpatriotic thing adds pieces to the Obama puzzle". Meh.

And that's exactly it. Pretend for a second that the big picture is that she loves the country. Would all of these little actions combine to make you not believe that. We can sit here and debate political viewpoints all you want, but her being liberal does not mean she hates the country. You might disagree with that strongly, but I don't think either side hates this country. In fact, I think both love the country. Why else would these people get into politics? I can't imagine it is all that much fun (hasn't Michelle called it being hell?). But, if she puts herself through hell for what she BELIEVES is making the country better, what is more patriotic than that? My point here is not getting you to believe that she is working to better the country, but rather that she feels that way. So please don't try to turn that comment into a "she is trying to ruin the country" debate.

Would I give anything to help out my family and other loved ones? Sure. I had to move back in with my parents about a year and a half ago to provide some assistance while my dad was going through some medical stuff. Would I say it was hell? Maybe not that strongly, but it certainly wasn't enjoyable being a 25 year old dude living with his parents (dating was a bit difficult). Since I didn't enjoy parts of it or since I am freely admitting that, does that mean I care about my parents less?

[dusred]

But in this specific case, who would I be disrespecting?

The millions of Americans who died in defense of that flag. To me the Stars And Stripes represents our freedom. IMO that's what's being disrespected. The fact that we can sit at our desks and openly state our opinions without the fear of Government intervention is a freedom given by those who died in defense of this flag. But then again I'm just a patriotic ***hole so you don't have to listen to me.

We can sit here and debate political viewpoints all you want, but her being liberal does not mean she hates the country.

Nobody said she hates her country. Being unpatriotic doesn't mean she hates America. We are a proud nation aren't we? An American not being proud of America shows that he/she doesn't understand what others have done to keep this nation free. This last week my Grandfather passed away. He fought in WWII in the Army Air Core. I guess spending so much time around him has given me this attitude. He would shake in rage whenever he heard comments like "for the first time in my adult life I am really proud of my country". There really wasn't anything that pissed him off more. He gave up his youth to fight for this great nation and the flag and I agree with him when he takes offense at someone who takes a s*** on it who has never had to fight for it.

Now, if the Obama's were Vets I might have a different opinion. IMO a Vet (or maybe the wife of a Vet) is the only one who has the right to s*** on our flag. Interestingly enough I have never seen or heard of one doing it. The very idea is outrageous.

[AppleBonker]

Again my argument was more that she likely has always been proud of our country. This was just the moment when she reached a new level of being proud. I can give her a pass for potentially misspeaking. I've done it before, so I certainly can't fault anyone for having a verbal slip up.

Now, if I do other things that directly support our current troops and those who have served previously, but I fail to salute the flag during the anthem, what does that make me? Unpatriotic? This is where we may differ. If I go out of my way to support current troops and veterans (through donations and other moral support, for example), I feel this speaks far more about my level of patriotism than if I salute the flag or wear a pin.