No Frills/Custom Exhaust Thread

[Chaotic_Warlord]

I thought wrapping your header was a bad thing as it promotes an increased rate of rusting and shortens the life. Why not just get a ceramic coated header since they actually do the same thing as header wrap and actually have a longer lifespan than a non wrapper header. As far as me I was planing on running a Blitz Nur R and still will do that once I get it turbo'd but for right now I am going to run 3" header back straight thru with a test pipe and maybe a flex pipe. when it comes time for inspection then I'll just lift the car and replace the text pipe with a catco cat so I can pass inspection. But as far as the can goes I'm either going to use the universal Blitz Nur R can or I'm liking the Megan Racing Ti exhaust, 100% carbon fiber surround on a 100% titanium can for 150 can't beat that. so hopefully if I can find a decent shop I should have a 300 header back exhaust. As far as headers go I was planning to go under boost so but since that's a pipe dream for right now I'm going to go ahead and get the either a DC Sports 4-2-1 header or the Megan Racing Header. The only reason I want to have a test pipe is so my CEL isn't on because there's no where to plug in to O2 plug.

[dickie]

heres my valuable input, K? i had custom 2.75" run on my integ with the stock can reused and saw a very small increase in throttle response and accelleration in the low-end. the reason i upgraded the piping is b/c i had a hole in my b-pipe and since it was, as you put it, a good ol boys shop, the upgrade to a larger diameter was almost free. also there was no resonator. i didnt have the cash on me at the time or else i would have thrown a magnaflow dual tip like the ones brm uses on there.

now that i have my 240 im going to do the same thing, except i might use a resonator this time since im going to a less restrictive and louder can at the back of the system and i dont want to piss of the neighbors. shouldnt cost me more than $150 all said and done.

theres nothing wrong with good ol boy muffler shops, theyre cheap and they get the job done, usually. i wouldnt trust their opinion on certain types of cars because in those cases they dont know what they are talking about, they dont have the experience. i definitely wouldnt try to pass their comments off as facts on nico, though.

if you want to put your money where your mouth is, why not ask him if he wants to dyno his car next to yours? racing proves nothing about better exhaust setups, period. there are too many other factors that come into play. heck even a dyno wouldnt be 100% accurate to truly settle an argument, but it would be a helluva lot closer than a heads up at the local strip or worse, at some streetlight somewhere.

[skydragoness]

I got the exhaust for free, but it's pretty much a 2.5' mandrel-bent exhaust, w/ a welded on Magnaflow oval canister w/ single tip (racing series that is straight-thru). It still retains the last bend right after it passes the axle. I am using a Magnaflow hi-flow cat as well. It has a very deep tone/rumble until I get it up around 4k rpm then it starts to sound kind of raspy/metallic-sounding but obviously not in a Honda way. It's pretty loud though--so i've been told, since I'm used to it.

Since there are no decent custom muffler shops around here that I would trust, I'm probably going to go with a BRM unit, but I like my single-tip Magnaflow so much that I've asked Greg if he could use it instead of the dual tip ones they use. I'm also going to have to add a resonator, at least a 22' one once I get the OBX header my lazy bf owes me.

I don't think you can see it very well here:

[A34D4ME]

i had custom 2.75" run on my integ with the stock can reused and saw a very small increase in throttle response and accelleration in the low-end.

Well duh. The whole idea is not to restrict the flow. It does no good to increase the pipe diameter only to have it bottle neck into a stock muffler which then makes the gas change directions a few times.

It's not just about size, it's about flow as well.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

Sky since we both live in DE I was wondering if the State or County cops give you hard time with your exhaust or do they not even look in your direction. I just got a 2 year tag on my car so I'm good on inspection until Nov 07, hopefully I won't have to go through inspection then either. I'm not too concerned about fix it tickets and as long as I have the silencer in I wouldn't think they would even notice with all the civics with fart cans we got running around here.

[skydragoness]

Well I am still running the stock exhaust manifold, plus I have a hi-flow cat, my exhaust doesn't have any resonators and the Magnaflow canister is simply a resonator anyway since its just straight thru. So its on the loud side, but I've had no problems with cops. I don't drive like an *** or call attention to myself so that probably helps ten-fold. Anyhow, It's civil under 3k rpm, although it can set off some sensitive car alarms--and in the cabin I can listen to people talk, and i can hear my music.

If I were you, I'd run a hi-flow cat for the sake of simplicity (having to take it off every two years would be annoying to me at least) and run a long resonator which will smooth out the tone. Hell, just go with a 3" from BRM and tell 'em to add a 22' resonator. I think you can even get hi-flow cat's from them too.

[eddiec]

....header wrap. yes i had read about the very issues you point out. however i decided to ignore those points for a few reasons. if it cracks, then it gets rewelded better/stronger than it was made. if it rusts, then it gets replaced by my own efforts.

and besides, dirty wraps help hide the bling chrome finish they origianlly came with.

[dickie]

Well duh. The whole idea is not to restrict the flow. It does no good to increase the pipe diameter only to have it bottle neck into a stock muffler which then makes the gas change directions a few times.

It's not just about size, it's about flow as well.

yeah like i said, i was replacing the exhaust because of emissions (i had holes in it) and the larger diameter piping was almost a freebie as opposed to the stock 2.25". i didnt have the extra cash or i would have gotten a magnaflow to complete the system, so i left my stock can on the end of it. didnt really care about performance at the time, i was more concerned with passing emissions so i could get that little sticker and continue to drive. maybe if i had kept the car i would have upgraded the muffler.

[A34D4ME]

The main thing about header wrap is that it keeps the heat out of your engine compartment and in the pipes where hot gas means less dense (lighter) gas. Cooling of exhaust gas while it's still in the tube causes a column of denser gas which has more mass and causes back pressure. This is why people often experience loss of low end torque with those big 3" pipes on a N/A motor.

As for the cops - giving the cops a reason to pull you over is just plain dumb. Especially for those of us over 21 who might be leaving a night club at 2am. Last time I brought it up, people jumped all over me but those of you old enough to be in a bar know what I mean.

When the cops are just up the street watching the bar traffic trying to decide who's getting f*#ked tonight (and not the good way), you most certainly don't want to be blasting by with the fast and furious fart can in the back.

[eddiec]

you most certainly don't want to be blasting by with the fast and furious fart can in the back.

i'll drink to that

[Ichi-Go]

This thread was a great idea. I recently made my own exhaust. Three inch mandrel bends and a fluxcore welder. It came out awesome for the first one I had ever done. I tried to make it fit as close as I could for ground clearence. Here is a pic of when I first built it so you can see how it looks with the mandrel bends and then a fitment pic and some painted ones.

http://bbs.240sx.net/attachmen...=1278h ... en...=1293

No muffler so its super loud but I am gonna get a straight through resonator soon.

[A34D4ME]

Looks good, but you're going to need a muffler.

[cwalke32477]

Won't removing to much back pressure cause a drop in torque? I'm not really experienced with NIssan's, but my experience with Honda's was that removing to much backpressure from the engine actually killed the performance. I have actually had to crease the pipes to regain the power from the engine after putting high flow exhuast systems on them. It was a very delicate balancing act to find that perfect amount of backpressure.

Hell, if the ka24e wants no backpressure I can do that easy!

[A34D4ME]

Won't removing to much back pressure cause a drop in torque? I'm not really experienced with NIssan's, but my experience with Honda's was that removing to much backpressure from the engine actually killed the performance. I have actually had to crease the pipes to regain the power from the engine after putting high flow exhuast systems on them. It was a very delicate balancing act to find that perfect amount of backpressure.

Hell, if the ka24e wants no backpressure I can do that easy!

That is a common misnomer. When the diameter of the pipe increases, the flow of the gases slows. If these gases slow too much they cool down and become more dense before making it out of the pipe. As the gas becomes more dense it collects in the pipe and results in a column of air with greater mass. When you punch the gas, this slow moving mass forms resistance or "back pressure." Guys mistake this for a lack of back pressure and reason that back pressure is needed because a smaller pipe worked better. In fact, the smaller pipe probably offered less back pressure because the gas was not allowed to cool and build mass. Trick is to find the perfect balance of size and flow. I'd say 2.5" for a N/A KA.

[All_Motor_KA]

I have a pacesetter header, custom bent 2.5 inch into a RSR muffler. really loud without silencer, and still a lil loud with silencer. I'm getting a resinator soon though.

[naed240sx]

2.5" custom system, generic 18" straight thru resonator, and a perforated core Megan Racing Muffler.





Fits up very close to the body of the car, so ground clearance is excellent. I had the tow hook cut off so that the muffler could sit up higher. Crusing it is very quiet. Never sounds buzzy or ricey. Just smooth and deep.

[InsanityInc]

Quote »Fine I'll put my 240sx up to yours for a grudge match NA(no) a NA(no). My Camaro 305 and my 240sx both put up 16.3 quartermiles so my original Camaro set up could've conceivably lost to your 240[/quote]I recommend getting a lot better at drag racing before you go making challenges then. I ran a 15.83 in my 240 when it was stock. Unless you live in Denver, CO or something, you need to learn to drive.

Quote »That is a common misnomer. When the diameter of the pipe increases, the flow of the gases slows. If these gases slow too much they cool down and become more dense before making it out of the pipe. As the gas becomes more dense it collects in the pipe and results in a column of air with greater mass. When you punch the gas, this slow moving mass forms resistance or "back pressure." Guys mistake this for a lack of back pressure and reason that back pressure is needed because a smaller pipe worked better. In fact, the smaller pipe probably offered less back pressure because the gas was not allowed to cool and build mass. Trick is to find the perfect balance of size and flow. I'd say 2.5" for a N/A KA.[/quote]Not really. Increasing the pipe size to any level will always be better than stock. Even removing your system (infinite pipe size) will be better than stock. The air cooling in the pipe doesn't matter for backpressure. Just think about it. If your exhaust pulses all have the same initial velocity, and lose velocity at the same rate then your later exhaust pulses will never "catch up" to your earlier ones, so there isn't any conceivable way that your previous pulses can cause backpressure unless they are completely (or nearly) using the entire CFM capacity of the pipe.

Also, 2.5" is not the ideal for a KA. As far as I've seen, a 3" is:

Like I told you before, the reason why smaller pipe sizes CAN perform better is due to the venturi effect. Here's something to look at:

http://www.google.com/search?h...earch

[A34D4ME]

Insanityinc, I really don't want to have any arguments in this thread. I know you feel strongly about your own unique interpretations of certain self taught scientific principles but please do not try to represent them as fact.

The air cooling in the pipe doesn't matter for backpressure. Just think about it. If your exhaust pulses all have the same initial velocity, and lose velocity at the same rate then your later exhaust pulses will never "catch up" to your earlier ones, so there isn't any conceivable way that your previous pulses can cause backpressure unless they are completely (or nearly) using the entire CFM capacity of the pipe.

The pulses will always be acting in combination with the gas in the tube. Are you thinking that the tube is empty except for the individule pulses? Also, are you thinking that the pulse coming out of the tail pipe is the actual pulse coming from the motor? Try to think of it as a tube full of marbles; when one goes in, one falls out. It's not a contained pulse that shoots through the pipe like a bullet.

Here is a quote from Borla. I don't know if there stuff is any good but this principle is often sited.

Choosing The Right Performance ExhaustToday, choosing performance exhaust can be confusing. A common misconception is that "bigger is better". Many enthusiasts, and manufacturers too, seem to feel that very large diameter pipes are the only way to go for muscle car performance, while BORLA has found for street use, big pipes just take energy out of the exhaust, both by slowing down exhaust gas velocity and by cooling off the gases. While exhaust may leave the port at 1500 degrees or more, at the tailpipe it's down to 150 degrees — a sign energy has been lost. Velocity and uninterrupted flow are the real performance-making factors.

1) Larger diameter = slower velocity. Slower velocity = cooling = less gas volume = even slower velocity = building of dense plug of gas = resting mass = backpressure.

If you're not seeing how this happens, I'll try to explain in more detail, just please don't start a pointless argument in this post. I will be happy to try to address any questions you might have if you keep things civil.

Like I told you before, the reason why smaller pipe sizes CAN perform better is due to the venturi effect. Here's something to look at:

As for the dyno charts, I would venture to say that a performance 3" is better than a stock exhaust. I'd also say that a good 2.5" might be even better on an N/A motor. The main difference should be when you initially put your foot down - well below the RPM range they were talking about.

The stuff about exhaust venturis is a cute advertising gimick and there is a bit of truth to it in so far as a venturi does create an area of low pressure.

However, it is the energy of the passing gas that creates it. Now if you were to drill a hole in the side of your venturi section, you could use the exhaust energy to suck stuff up into that hole; that's how carburators draw fuel. You can't however use that low pressure to draw in the same gas that is creating the effect. This would be great if you could because you would have invented perpetual motion and you would be a bizzillionair.

Now if you built a venturi that went on the tail pipe and used the energy from the passing air to draw out exhaust gas you might have something.

[YRUSOSLO]

I recommend getting a lot better at drag racing before you go making challenges then. I ran a 15.83 in my 240 when it was stock. Unless you live in Denver, CO or something, you need to learn to drive.

Wow, you don't give up do you? From looking at the other post where you and A34 got into that Chemistry thread I guess you don't.

You also don't seem to know how to have a debate without insults "you need to learn to drive"- "moron" "idiot" you show symptoms of someone with a low self-esteem needing to put down others to make yourself feel better.

Maybe my stock 13yr old engine that had another owner wasn't properly taken care of. My times stayed consistent and my reaction time needs improvement with .55 to .7

Maybe since my 240 is the first manual I've ever owned I could improve my times with practice. I guess you would've known this if you had only asked and tried to be helpful instead of insulting.

My Camaro times are pretty consistant with the LO3 -oh yeah you think all Camaro's are Z28's and have no clue what a 305 is.

Here are some time slips from Camaro's with differen't drivers w/same engineChris K.. 1991 Chevrolet Camaro RS LO3 A4 16.25 @ 84.74 Mike Dem... 1990 Chevrolet Camaro LC1 A3 17.71 @ 79.38and another F-body with the same enginePat 1989 Pontiac Firebird Formula WS6 LO3 M6 16.19 @ 84.72

Now if you feel I could use some tips on how to drag I'm all ears.

Oh, and by the way, I'm still waiting for your muffler recommendation. Maybe I missed it so I'll go back and check.

[InsanityInc]

The pulses will always be acting in combination with the gas in the tube. Are you thinking that the tube is empty except for the individule pulses? Also, are you thinking that the pulse coming out of the tail pipe is the actual pulse coming from the motor? Try to think of it as a tube full of marbles; when one goes in, one falls out. It's not a contained pulse that shoots through the pipe like a bullet.

The pulses aren't acting in combination with the gas in the tube, the pulses ARE the gas in the tube. Even if there are other gases in the pipe, they will pulse in the same way as the exhaust pulses once the engine gets going. It's just a set of compression waves.

Quote »1) Larger diameter = slower velocity. Slower velocity = cooling = less gas volume = even slower velocity = building of dense plug of gas = resting mass = backpressure. [/quote]No. This doesn't happen, because you have this:

Quote »Slower velocity = cooling = less gas volume [/quote]Totally wrong.

If you slow a gas, it doesn't have to cool down, and that doesn't affect the energy of the gas. There is no direct relationship between velocity and ANY other property of a gas. Anything with velocity is totally indirect, and generally has to do with the venturi effect and bernoulli principle which you like to claim don't actually exist, or differences in pressure, as it is here. It CAN cool down, and it CAN heat up, depending on what you're doing to slow it down, hence why talking in terms of velocity with gases is pointless. You have to use pressure.

In a bigger pipe, there is more "other" gas. Your exhaust with any pipe has roughly the same energy (though, better exhausts will increase that energy, let's just assume it's all equal for the sake of simplicity). Now, the cross-sectional area of the pipe is obviously bigger with a bigger diameter. And what's pressure? Force/Area. So, our exhaust has the same energy exiting the engine, but it has to apply that force over a larger area. Now, obviously less pressure will cause less acceleration, and less velocity. Since PV=nRT, in this case the temperature will drop, but not because of velocity, and the temperature drop doesn't mean anything, except that it's the vehicle by which the law of conservation of energy is satisfied.

Additionally, a larger pipe does not make the exhaust stream lose any energy. A slower gas doesn't mean it lost energy, and a faster gas doesn't mean it gains energy. If you put a gas through a venturi, it speeds up. Did it gain any energy? Of course not. That would violate the law of conservation of energy. So, if you put a gas through a larger pipe, does it lose any energy? Of course not. Once again for the same reason.

See, temperature has **** to do with anything, and low velocity doesn't mean high backpressure. Measure the backpressure in a huge pipe. It'll read 0. However, what low velocity PRECLUDES is NEGATIVE pressure, due to the venturi effect. If your velocity is low, you can't form a vacuum in the exhaust, so your scavenging will never be AS good as a smaller pipe that also generates 0 backpressure naturally, but also keeps the velocity high enough to form a vacuum in the pipe.

And where does temperature come into play? It doesn't.

Quote »As for the dyno charts, I would venture to say that a performance 3" is better than a stock exhaust. I'd also say that a good 2.5" might be even better on an N/A motor. The main difference should be when you initially put your foot down - well below the RPM range they were talking about.[/quote]Nope. There's a dyno of a 2.5" that someone posted a few weeks ago. 7.5hp peak gain, and the same torque gain below 3800rpms or so, at which point the 3" makes a bigger jump.

Quote »However, it is the energy of the passing gas that creates it. Now if you were to drill a hole in the side of your venturi section, you could use the exhaust energy to suck stuff up into that hole; that's how carburators draw fuel.[/quote]Yeah, I told you that about 3 weeks ago and you said I didn't know what I was talking about. How very odd that you've suddenly changed your tune.

Quote » You can't however use that low pressure to draw in the same gas that is creating the effect. This would be great if you could because you would have invented perpetual motion and you would be a bizzillionair.[/quote]You're completely missing how it works. The gas in your cylinder is at a high pressure when you open the exhaust valve. Say you applied a positive pressure to your tailpipe equal to that pressure. Your engine would choke and die because the cylinders would never evacuate. Since the pressure on both sides of the valve are the same, no exhaust will ever leave the cylinder. Now, apply a little less pressure to the tailpipe, and some exhaust will get out at a pretty slow rate. Now, don't apply any pressure, and the exhaust will obviously come out at a much faster rate. Now apply a vacuum to the tailpipe, and the gases will come out even faster yet. A proper venturi effect in the pipe causes the latter situation. You're not moving anything with the venturi effect, you're only causing a greater pressure differential across the exhaust port, which makes the cylinder evacuate better and faster. The gas obviously can't accelerate itself, because it's at it's own pressure.

[A34D4ME]

Ok, I'm only going to explain this one time and then I'm not going to argue about it.

The gas slows because of the Brunelli effect - when you push a given volume through a smaller diameter it has to speed up and visa versa.

In this case it's a bigger diameter so slows down. We are talking fluid flow here, not momentum. Got it so far?

The exhaust pipe is cooler the further back you go, right?

Even more so with a bigger pipe. Consider that a 12" pipe would probably dissipate enough heat to be only luke warm at the tail pipe because it would be giving of heat faster than we are putting it in.

The slower moving gas has more time to dissipate heat and the increased surface are of the pipe will also dissipate more heat. Think of heat sinks on an amplifier.

The main thing is the increased time that the system has to disipate heat. Heat disipating Vs heat going in. Slow gas = more time.

Still with me?

As the heat dissipates from the gas, it loses volume and becomes more dense Charles' Law. (right?)

Now we are pushing less volume through a big pipe so it goes even slower. Brunelli again right?

Now you have a decelerating mass of denser gas that has to be pushed out of the tube. This is especially noteable when you punch it and lots of exhaust tries to exit real fast but slams into a slow moving, dense plug of cool gas towards the rear. This is sometimes reffered to as a "standing wave."

Now, I think I've explained this so that even people with no science background can understand it. Give it a chance and digest this a little and I'm sure you'll see that it all makes sense.

As for venturi effect, you seem to be missing one thing.

The force that pushes the gas through the system is what powers the effect. Right?

Now, we know that for every action there is an equal and oposite reaction - right?

In this case, the action is the force behind the gas. The reaction is the force pushing back.

In this case we have a change in velocity and a resulting low pressure involved in the force pushing back. This is complex and not the point.

Main point; you can't have a reaction that is more powerfull than the action. Can you?

That is to say that the suction created by a venturi can't suck through it's own source of energy. That would be like tapping into the venturi and routing the hose back into the pressure source and inventing perpetual motion.

If this made sense, I could put a venturi on a post, wait for a windy day and I would have a rocket engine because the wind would just get sucked through faster and faster.

I appreciate your confidence in your understanding of this stuff but please understand that I have spent many painstaking hours learning this stuff and I have proven my mastery of it on numerous college exams.

Take it from someone who knows what they are talking about. You are discussing concepts that you have at most, a very basic understanding of. I'm not trying to rip on you, I'm just trying to nicely point out that you might be a little bit over confident in your knowledge of these subjects.

I say this because as someone with a formal education in this area, I am able to find enough errors in your statements to suggest this is so. In fact, there are so many mistakes in just this one post, time does not permit me to addressed them individually.

Now, I'm really trying to explain all this as nicely as possible and I'm not going to spend my time arguing about it. If you really want to understand the nature of gases, I'll be happy to try to answer any questions you might have.

But, I'm not going to get into a nasty argument with a guy who is clearly relying on dogmatic interpretations.

If you insist on making this into a verbal arm wrestling match, I'll have to politely ask you to take it else where.

[A34D4ME]

Totally wrong.

If you slow a gas, it doesn't have to cool down, and that doesn't affect the energy of the gas. There is no direct relationship between velocity and ANY other property of a gas. Anything with velocity is totally indirect, and generally has to do with the venturi effect and bernoulli principle which you like to claim don't actually exist, or differences in pressure, as it is here. It CAN cool down, and it CAN heat up, depending on what you're doing to slow it down, hence why talking in terms of velocity with gases is pointless. You have to use pressure.

In a bigger pipe, there is more "other" gas. Your exhaust with any pipe has roughly the same energy (though, better exhausts will increase that energy, let's just assume it's all equal for the sake of simplicity). Now, the cross-sectional area of the pipe is obviously bigger with a bigger diameter. And what's pressure? Force/Area. So, our exhaust has the same energy exiting the engine, but it has to apply that force over a larger area. Now, obviously less pressure will cause less acceleration, and less velocity. Since PV=nRT, in this case the temperature will drop, but not because of velocity, and the temperature drop doesn't mean anything, except that it's the vehicle by which the law of conservation of energy is satisfied.

Additionally, a larger pipe does not make the exhaust stream lose any energy. A slower gas doesn't mean it lost energy, and a faster gas doesn't mean it gains energy. If you put a gas through a venturi, it speeds up. Did it gain any energy? Of course not. That would violate the law of conservation of energy. So, if you put a gas through a larger pipe, does it lose any energy? Of course not. Once again for the same reason.

Wow, had to stop here. This is all so coveluted it would take hours just to sort out. It's as if you took 5 different principles and put them in a blender.

Energy is lost simply through time and heat dissipation. Where do you get this mumbo jumbo about having to relate velocity to heat? Ever hear of a radiator? How about "air cooling"?

You think I'm making the argument based on the universal gas law? How do you get so for off topic?

Perhaps this will help-

Which end of a joint is hotter and why?

[eddiec]

blah blah blah. this thread went from peeps diy exhaust to a science lesson. this topic has been beaten to death here and every where else that guys talk about exhaust. lets just allow each of other to have their own opinion and move on. if it works for you great. if it doesn't even better.

so lets all shake hands, puff tuff and discuss something else.

btw did i tell everyone i like to post pics. i welded quarters to the egr port to close it up.

[InsanityInc]

The gas slows because of the Brunelli effect - when you push a given volume through a smaller diameter it has to speed up and visa versa.

Seriously, you just spent like 10 posts in the last thread we talked about this trying to convince me that the bernoulli principle isn't real. Whatever.

Quote »Even more so with a bigger pipe. Consider that a 12" pipe would probably dissipate enough heat to be only luke warm at the tail pipe because it would be giving of heat faster than we are putting it in.

The slower moving gas has more time to dissipate heat and the increased surface are of the pipe will also dissipate more heat. Think of heat sinks on an amplifier.[/quote]But all of that is irrelevant. Sure, it has a few more fractions of a second to dissipate heat through the pipe. Woo. So what? All of the gas is slower in the pipe and cooling more as well. If the CFM of the pipe is not exceeded and there isn't any forced flow turbulence or reversion then there is no backpressure. End of story.

Quote »As the heat dissipates from the gas, it loses volume and becomes more dense Charles' Law. (right?) [/quote]And here's why you fail. You don't actually know what Charles' Law states.

[quote=""wiki""]Charles law states that, at constant pressure, the volume of a given mass of a gas increases or decreases by the same factor as its temperature (in kelvins) increases or decreases.[/quote]AT CONSTANT PRESSURE. Charles' law is irrelevant in this case because when the gas cools, the pressure changes, therefore no density change occurs. It's just a special case of the ideal gas law which doesn't apply in this situation because pressure IS NOT CONSTANT.

[eddiec]

how's this for free flowing



or maybe this one

[InsanityInc]

You just might exceed noise limits with that second one. heh.

[A34D4ME]

Insanityinc. I can honestly say I tried, but I guess there is no getting through to you. You've obviously convinced your self that you really know chemistry and physics. Good luck with that my friend.

Now let's get back to discussing people's custom systems.

Anybody have a dyno for a top notch 2.5" system.

Anybody have any good turbo systems to add?

By the way, sorry for jacking the thread guys.

[InsanityInc]

Insanityinc. I can honestly say I tried, but I guess there is no getting through to you. You've obviously convinced your self that you really know chemistry and physics. Good luck with that my friend.

Your argument hinges on an improper application of Charles' law, but I'm the one who doesn't know chemistry or physics.

Riiiight.

[A34D4ME]

Follow the link to the InsanityInc lab to see where all this science background comes from. Make sure sound is on.

http://www.americanangst.com/dingfries.html

[InsanityInc]

Follow the link to the InsanityInc lab to see where all this science background comes from. Make sure sound is on.

http://www.americanangst.com/dingfries.html

Ah, and the ad-hominem starts. Sorry I pointed out the glaring factual errors in your argument.