Nissan Calls out Top Gear

[downedzephyr]

I know this is a couple days old and I hope it's not a repost, but Nissan has called out Top Gear in regards to misrepresenting the range of the Nissan LEAF.
http://dvice.com/archives/2011/08/nissan-calls-ou.php

[themadscientist]

Bad, very bad. Nissan should be pissed. It's like when the news reporters staged the GM truck tank explosions.

[Bubba1]

Bad, very bad. Nissan should be pissed. It's like when the news reporters staged the GM truck tank explosions.

No I don;t think Nissan should be pissed., it's an entertainment show, Getting angry about it is stupid and misguided on Nissan's part. They need to lighten up as TopGearheads are not the target demographic for Leaf sales. Nissan can't possibly win a battle like this.
It's really nothing like GM's filing a lawsuit when Dateline intentionally rigged a GM gas tank to explode in an serious article about exploding GM gas tanks. It's more like the Austin Marina owners club that complained about Clarkson ripping on the Marina too much. As a result, for the rest of the season on every show, Clarkson dropped a piano on one, making the Club look even more foolish.

Clarkson's running out of battery after 40 miles is surprising to no one that watches the show since he's a leadfooted powersliding showoff that hollers "powwwaaaaaaa!!!!. Most of the other testing organizations that Nissan loaned Leaves to had similar complaints about the actual range being far less than Nissan advertised. IMHO, Nissan needs to STFU.

[themadscientist]

They falsely represented Nissan's product. It's not like ramming the Gwhiz into a wooden table. They made it appear the car was not capable when in fact the scene was staged. Had they explained that the stop was their fault and not the car's, but that they wished to call attention to what happens when an electric runs out of juice that would have been fair, but they were full of s***. Nissan should hire some women to say clarkson was unable to get an erectlon when he propositioned them for sex and see how he reacts. It would be just as factual, just and libelous and also in good fun. Fair is fair.

[IanS]

They falsely represented Nissan's product. It's not like ramming the Gwhiz into a wooden table. They made it appear the car was not capable when in fact the scene was staged. Had they explained that the stop was their fault and not the car's, but that they wished to call attention to what happens when an electric runs out of juice that would have been fair, but they were full of s***. Nissan should hire some women to say clarkson was unable to get an erectlon when he propositioned them for sex and see how he reacts. It would be just as factual, just and libelous and also in good fun. Fair is fair.

Exactly.

Whos fault is it if your car runs out of gas half way to where your going? If the fuel gauge works, its not the cars fault, its the driver.

With the Leaf's battery remaining gauge working, then no one should be blamed save the driver. If TopGear tried to spin it any other way, then they lied.

The real question is, why fake it? So they hate electric cars, then why talk about them? As much as TopGear did a dis-justice to Nissan by misrepresenting the Leaf, they did an even greater dis-justice to themselves. Im a big fan of TopGear, and this shakes my trust in the truth of their reporting. There are a lot of things that Clarkson dislikes, whats to stop him from faking other tests to shine a bad light on other cars. If I can't believe what Im seeing, then whats the point of watching? I dont always want a spin on whats happening, I want the truth with facts so I can decide for myself what I like.

As much as a motorhead as I am, I believe that electrics hold at least some space in our automotive future. They may not be perfect now, but perfection takes time, and they had to start somewhere. What better place then here, what better time then now? Did the R32 GT-R just spring in to being as a first edition vehicle? Or was the culmination of a hundred years of learning and engineering? Electrics and hybrids are still in baby stage, people like Clarkson fail to realize this. Before there was a Ford GT, their was a Ford Model T.

And for those of you who dont think electric could ever be cool, I disagree.

I WANT one.



Moto GP, here they come.

[Kompresshun]

I don't care if Nissan is pissed... Just like Joel said, they need to understand that it's a common thing on Top Gear for them to hate on electric and super economical vehicles, it's a part of who they are, so there's no need for them to get butthurt. They're not the first ones to get insulted and when Edmunds tested out the Leaf, it also ran out of juice for them quicker than it was supposed to, according to the gauge. Clarkson hates on numerous cars every season and this is no different, not everybody thinks that the Leaf is the savior of the automotive industry and I commend him for pushing it to the limits. If their car can't be pushed to its limits, then who is really going to buy it? Do you really think everyone is going to drive it like a senior citizen and make sure it's charged up on the spot every time? No, people are going to drive it like a car, and if it can't stand up to the task, then all it's going to be is a glorified grocery getter for all of the hippies that want to save the earth.

Also, why should Clarkson be allowed to hate on things and "fake" things like he does? Because it makes the show entertaining and it makes the BBC money. If you solely rely on Top Gear for a true opinion on the next vehicle you purchase, then you clearly are misguided, it's an opinion from ONE person. I don't buy a vehicle based on what everyone tells me I should think about it, I do my research and form an opinion myself of the vehicle. Just because I wouldn't buy it, doesn't mean someone else shouldn't, and you shouldn't expect someone else to figure it out for you. Clarkson pushes cars to their limit, because that's what he expects of them, but that's also what people have come to expect from him too. If you want a car show that gives you a normal drive and a boring spiel about the vehicle, then watch MotorWeek, if you can stay awake

I'm not one bit surprised Nissan is whining about people hating on their prized Leaf though, since the Leaf is treated like Nissans gift to humanity

[IanS]

I don't care if Nissan is pissed... Just like Joel said, they need to understand that it's a common thing on Top Gear for them to hate on electric and super economical vehicles, it's a part of who they are, so there's no need for them to get butthurt. They're not the first ones to get insulted and when Edmunds tested out the Leaf, it also ran out of juice for them quicker than it was supposed to, according to the gauge. Clarkson hates on numerous cars every season and this is no different, not everybody thinks that the Leaf is the savior of the automotive industry and I commend him for pushing it to the limits. If their car can't be pushed to its limits, then who is really going to buy it? Do you really think everyone is going to drive it like a senior citizen and make sure it's charged up on the spot every time? No, people are going to drive it like a car, and if it can't stand up to the task, then all it's going to be is a glorified grocery getter for all of the hippies that want to save the earth.

Also, why should Clarkson be allowed to hate on things and "fake" things like he does? Because it makes the show entertaining and it makes the BBC money. If you solely rely on Top Gear for a true opinion on the next vehicle you purchase, then you clearly are misguided, it's an opinion from ONE person. I don't buy a vehicle based on what everyone tells me I should think about it, I do my research and form an opinion myself of the vehicle. Just because I wouldn't buy it, doesn't mean someone else shouldn't, and you shouldn't expect someone else to figure it out for you. Clarkson pushes cars to their limit, because that's what he expects of them, but that's also what people have come to expect from him too. If you want a car show that gives you a normal drive and a boring spiel about the vehicle, then watch MotorWeek, if you can stay awake

I'm not one bit surprised Nissan is whining about people hating on their prized Leaf though, since the Leaf is treated like Nissans gift to humanity

You're missing the point. Its not the fact that he beat on the vehicle that is in question. Its the fact that they falsified how the vehicle ran out of charge.

They ran the thing out of charge on purpose, then tried to make it look like a fault of the car. Thats BS pure and simple.

[Kompresshun]

Ok, I see your point of frustration, but the main reason i'm defending them is it's nothing new from them. They did the same thing to the Tesla roadster when they tested it, so why should the Leaf be treated any different? I don't disagree with the fact that they may have falsified their representation of the vehicle, but it's also common of Top Gear to do that with vehicles they hate.

My main issue here is that it sounds more like whining from Nissan than anything, because ONE show hates their vehicle and decided to make it look like crap. Does that mean the car is crap? No. To me though, it comes across as they don't really have enough faith in their product to simply say that Top Gear is full of crap and move on with their lives. All this is going to result in is Top Gear will take this and run with it, until they're told to stop. Then they'll probably still insult it some more in an underhanded way, even after they're told not to.

[Encryptshun]

Wait, what?

So the argument here is that it's okay to lie so long as you always lie consistently? And the further argument is that calling someone out for lying is somehow weak or petty?

[Red coupe]

Exactly.

Whos fault is it if your car runs out of gas half way to where your going? If the fuel gauge works, its not the cars fault, its the driver.

With the Leaf's battery remaining gauge working, then no one should be blamed save the driver. If TopGear tried to spin it any other way, then they lied.

Ehhh, they didn't lie now did they? The car was out of charge, even if they forced the situation... They never said they set off with a full charge and really... Its top gear, if your going there to be informed then your not a terribly smart person to begin with.

The real question is, why fake it?

Seriously?

Because TV is a multi-billion dollar industry. They make money by selling entertainment. It is not efficient to shoot 300 bits, and keep the 2 that work out properly for TV, so you do the thing that will continue to make your international business lucrative and make sure you are not pouring money at bits that will not be worth showing anyways.

So they hate electric cars, then why talk about them?

?
Because that is the basis of their successful TV show. They talk about cars they like and hate. Clarkson bashing cars is a staple.
Hell, what was the biggest worry when TGUS was announced? That with a car show funded by auto manufacturer ad revenue would not have the freedom to criticize cars they dislike...

You really wan't a show with nothing but compliments? (try test drive)

As much as TopGear did a dis-justice to Nissan by misrepresenting the Leaf, they did an even greater dis-justice to themselves. Im a big fan of TopGear, and this shakes my trust in the truth of their reporting. There are a lot of things that Clarkson dislikes, whats to stop him from faking other tests to shine a bad light on other cars.

Are you kidding me? Top gear is the most un-apologetically opinionated excuse for "journalism" ever.That is why we watch them... because they are entertaining not informative. Aside from the basic stats every review they have ever done has been horribly skewed by their own opinions, Jeremy most of all.

If I can't believe what Im seeing, then whats the point of watching? I dont always want a spin on whats happening, I want the truth with facts so I can decide for myself what I like.

You should probably read, because TV is not the place to go for "If I can't believe what Im seeing, then whats the point of watching?". Top Gear is no different. They don't even hide the fact that they arrange bits.

As much as a motorhead as I am, I believe that electrics hold at least some space in our automotive future. They may not be perfect now, but perfection takes time, and they had to start somewhere. What better place then here, what better time then now? Did the R32 GT-R just spring in to being as a first edition vehicle? Or was the culmination of a hundred years of learning and engineering? Electrics and hybrids are still in baby stage, people like Clarkson fail to realize this. Before there was a Ford GT, their was a Ford Model T.

And for those of you who dont think electric could ever be cool, I disagree.

[/quote]
That was pretty much their exact ending thought to the segment, what do you mean people like Clarkson fail to realize that? Did you even watch the episode? He mentioned the point that their is so much promise, but batteries are not ready specifically.


lol, sorry... don't mean to be bashing you directly I just can't believe anyone who watches a lot of top gear would be surprised by this. I just kinda picked a post from the other side at random and went through it.

Wait, what?

So the argument here is that it's okay to lie so long as you always lie consistently? And the further argument is that calling someone out for lying is somehow weak or petty?

No.
The argument here is basically whether a show presented as entertainment should be held responsible for being 100% factual or not.

[Encryptshun]

The only solid exemption from liable and slander laws is satire. Is that the category the show wants to get lumped in to?

[Red coupe]

The only solid exemption from liable and slander laws is satire. Is that the category the show wants to get lumped in to?

I would say yeah. They would probably be more inclined to put them selves as satire then documentary.
Remember the american trip where they joked about that very issue?

But it is not libel or slander, because they made no claims... the viewers made assumptions.

[themadscientist]

Wait, what?

So the argument here is that it's okay to lie so long as you always lie consistently? And the further argument is that calling someone out for lying is somehow weak or petty?

No. I can't speak for the opinions of others, but I don't condone lieing. Now if they wanted to poke fun at the Leaf in an obvious way where it's not potrayed as a failing of the car, but rather clowning on it because it's electric, fine. They staged a breakdown and left the impression the car failed in some manner. That is damaging to the image of the product and the maker has a right to be pissed.

Imagine you make something or perform a task for a living. A local TV personality who is not an offical newscaster, but more of a personality decided to do a piece on your work and during that piece, to be comical, he sabotages your product and makes it appear as if the product was faulty. Now, he is a known non-journalist, but he has effectively placed the idea in people's minds that there is something wrong with your product. Still think it's a non-issue? If it was your product and your bottom line I don't think you would.

[Rev_D21]

It's just the Leaf!

[themadscientist]

It don't matter if it's the whole tree!

[Kompresshun]

It's just the Leaf!

You guys are acting like Clarkson killed Nissans first born child for gods sake! it's only ONE issue, from ONE episode out of 17 seasons of the show, and all of a sudden you look at Top Gear as the anti-Christ of the automotive industry because they BS'ed a review on a Leaf. If you can sit here and tell me that you've never lied about a single thing, then you have the right to bash Clarkson, Top Gear, and the BBC from here until eternity. If not then STFU and quit acting like you're any better.

I'm done with this thread regardless, because all I see is a bunch of stupid bickering over being fair to the Leaf and that Top Gear should be burned at the stake for taking its name in vain.

[PoorManQ45]

Can someone find a clip of exactly what happened. I missed this episode.

If the car was fully charged and they ran it dead in 50 miles it doesn't matter if they blamed it on the car. If it truly died that is all there is to it.

[themadscientist]

It's just the Leaf!

You guys are acting like Clarkson killed Nissans first born child for gods sake! it's only ONE issue, from ONE episode out of 17 seasons of the show, and all of a sudden you look at Top Gear as the anti-Christ of the automotive industry because they BS'ed a review on a Leaf. If you can sit here and tell me that you've never lied about a single thing, then you have the right to bash Clarkson, Top Gear, and the BBC from here until eternity. If not then STFU and quit acting like you're any better.

I'm done with this thread regardless, because all I see is a bunch of stupid bickering over being fair to the Leaf and that Top Gear should be burned at the stake for taking its name in vain.

You miss the point. It's not a Leaf thing, it's not a Nissan thing, It's a dishonesty thing. Things are not what they are. They are what the appear to be and by this malicious and dishonest act the show has created a still-to-be-determined and most importantly factually incorrect negative impression of a product.

The fact that the show is not hard jounalism is irrelevant. they staged a breakdown and if you understand anything about consumer perception you should realize things like this get legs and a company will have to fight the erroneous perception that this product is unreliable. That costs money. Clarkson, by his dihonesty has done financial harm to this company. the company is justified to be pissed and put their foot in his a**.

In their defence you offer up "everyone lies." Seriously? That's your policy?

So if you buy a car and it's missing parts even though you were sold what you thought was a complete car, don't complain; "everybody lies."

When the stero in that car fails after a week and you remove it and see that it was "inspected by" someone, don't get mad; "everybody lies."

When a politican tells you the economy is fine and don't worry and then it crashes and burns and you are living in a cardboard box, don't complain; "everybody lies."

Dishonesty is wrong. The possibility that the person who calls out another for being dishonest has himself been dishonest at some point is no point. That is specious, no scratch that, it doesn't rate polite terms. That's a bunch of steaming s***.

Freedom of speech is great, but responsibility comes with freedom. You are free to lie, but you are also subject to the results of that lie.

No wonder this world is so screwed up. People actually believe dishonesty is negotiable.

[Rev_D21]

No wonder no one ever bought Brand X and Coke was always #1 in a taste test. Thanks honesty! You make the world a better place!

[Jesda]

Some of you have missed the point of the segment. How it was produced or what was implied is entirely irrelevant to the main idea.


If you run out of juice in the Leaf, the infrastructure is NOT there to support you. No matter where you run out, you'll have to wait at least half an hour (if you magically come across a 480v charging station) before you can continue. In a typical environment, expect to wait 7-20 hours depending on voltage.

It doesn't matter if Top Gear ran out after a full charge or after a 40% charge. The point is, they wanted to demonstrate what would happen if you traveled a distance in an electric and needed to refuel somewhere away from home.



If I wanted to demonstrate to you that coffee is hot, it doesn't matter if I heated it up on a fire, in a microwave, or on an electric range. The resulting temperature is the same! Its going to be hot!

[Jesda]

For a more journalistic point of view, I follow Edmunds on Twitter. Just recently one of their writers Tweeted that he was on the shoulder waiting for a tow. I jokingly asked him, "Are you in a Leaf?"

He replied, "Yep"

And it isn't the first time they've needed to call AAA to drag the Leaf back to the office. Being helpless or tethered is the antithesis of motoring joy. In that regard, the Leaf is as joyless as motoring gets.

[sultan]

can you charge a leaf while you are driving? i'd try throwing a honda generator in it to try to get some more range, they claim 60db on one of the 120/240v 6500 watt super quiet ones.


yes, i am talking about trying to use a gas generator in a leaf while driving. maybe not inside the vehicle if you can get a hitch and some sort of rack on the hitch.

[Jesda]

can you charge a leaf while you are driving? i'd try throwing a honda generator in it to try to get some more range, they claim 60db on one of the 120/240v 6500 watt super quiet ones.


yes, i am talking about trying to use a gas generator in a leaf while driving. maybe not inside the vehicle if you can get a hitch and some sort of rack on the hitch.

Now THAT is what Top Gear should have done! Even as a TV experiment it would have been cool. They could have named it the Eagle i-Hammer Leaf Twig

[IanS]

Ehhh, they didn't lie now did they? The car was out of charge, even if they forced the situation... They never said they set off with a full charge and really... Its top gear, if your going there to be informed then your not a terribly smart person to begin with.

Seriously?

Because TV is a multi-billion dollar industry. They make money by selling entertainment. It is not efficient to shoot 300 bits, and keep the 2 that work out properly for TV, so you do the thing that will continue to make your international business lucrative and make sure you are not pouring money at bits that will not be worth showing anyways.


?
Because that is the basis of their successful TV show. They talk about cars they like and hate. Clarkson bashing cars is a staple.
Hell, what was the biggest worry when TGUS was announced? That with a car show funded by auto manufacturer ad revenue would not have the freedom to criticize cars they dislike...

You really wan't a show with nothing but compliments? (try test drive)


As much as TopGear did a dis-justice to Nissan by misrepresenting the Leaf, they did an even greater dis-justice to themselves. Im a big fan of TopGear, and this shakes my trust in the truth of their reporting. There are a lot of things that Clarkson dislikes, whats to stop him from faking other tests to shine a bad light on other cars.

Are you kidding me? Top gear is the most un-apologetically opinionated excuse for "journalism" ever.That is why we watch them... because they are entertaining not informative. Aside from the basic stats every review they have ever done has been horribly skewed by their own opinions, Jeremy most of all.



You should probably read, because TV is not the place to go for "If I can't believe what Im seeing, then whats the point of watching?". Top Gear is no different. They don't even hide the fact that they arrange bits.


And for those of you who dont think electric could ever be cool, I disagree.
[/quote][/quote]
That was pretty much their exact ending thought to the segment, what do you mean people like Clarkson fail to realize that? Did you even watch the episode? He mentioned the point that their is so much promise, but batteries are not ready specifically.


lol, sorry... don't mean to be bashing you directly I just can't believe anyone who watches a lot of top gear would be surprised by this. I just kinda picked a post from the other side at random and went through it.


No.
The argument here is basically whether a show presented as entertainment should be held responsible for being 100% factual or not.[/quote]


They did lie, they may not have done it outright, but using the magic of television they lied.

Yes, but why fake it? Why not just legitimately over drive the range? Try to drive 120 miles, and be obvious about it. They chose to make it seem as though the car couldn't make it a distance just over half its rated distance. They went through an awful lot of trouble to make it look bad, when in reality a short range e car turns off moist people just by itself.


You're right, top gear tests cars, so the leaf deserved to be on the list.

Really? You don't see a problem with a show that reviews cars, however biasedly, intentionally falsifying a report? You don't see a difference between being opinionated and straight lies? I enjoy the bias of the show, this went far beyond that.

Arranging a bit for humor, or verbally b**** slapping a car for being poorly designed are on a different level then what they did.

You've got me there, I did miss the final minutes of the segment, but even if they agreed with me in words, it changes very little how the bit has and will be received by the public.

TMS said it all.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

can you charge a leaf while you are driving? i'd try throwing a honda generator in it to try to get some more range, they claim 60db on one of the 120/240v 6500 watt super quiet ones.


yes, i am talking about trying to use a gas generator in a leaf while driving. maybe not inside the vehicle if you can get a hitch and some sort of rack on the hitch.

Now THAT is what Top Gear should have done! Even as a TV experiment it would have been cool. They could have named it the Eagle i-Hammer Leaf Twig

That would rule. Someone could sell a "roadtrip package" for the leaf, similar to a tow package for a truck haha.

How much do the generators cost? I wonder if it would still be cheaper than a Volt. I also wonder what the efficiency is (how many resultant MPG would you get)?

[themadscientist]

A generator can't push enough amps to charge the thing withing this decade. One of the technoloy and infrastructure challenges for electrics is perfecting batteries that can be quick charged in a few minutes without negative side effects and the propegation of charging stations at least as comon as gas stations. The move towards shopping areas installing them is very smart and convenient for consumers and that is what they need to do to sell these vehicles. People like the freedom of the cr and right now the electric still comes up "short."

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Werd. Capacitors ftw.

[PoorManQ45]

can you charge a leaf while you are driving? i'd try throwing a honda generator in it to try to get some more range, they claim 60db on one of the 120/240v 6500 watt super quiet ones.


yes, i am talking about trying to use a gas generator in a leaf while driving. maybe not inside the vehicle if you can get a hitch and some sort of rack on the hitch.

I have wondered why this is not done.

Trains use diesel engines to drive generators to keep their battery packs that drive the electric motors charged!

[themadscientist]

It's called a hybrid. I hear Toyota will sell one soon.

[Dattebayo]

Trains use diesel engines to drive generators to keep their battery packs that drive the electric motors charged!

That's only where trains actually go off the electric grid. Most of the trains around and between our local cities (read: most of the east coast) have a third rail until you get above Hartford... And I wouldn't call those diesel engines they use anything close to what we use in regular vehicles.

The torque needed to haul that train makes electric use a no-brainer. Having a straight diesel would drain their tanks much faster then operating the way they do now.