Nissan BRZ competitor?

[Heavy]

Its time to s*** or get off the pot nissan

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/09/niss ... ubaru-brz/

Subaru BRZ and Scion FR-S got you excited? Well, it appears the new Toyobaru twins might be moving the needle at other automakers, too. According to the Sydney Morning Herald, the pair may have challenged Nissan to once again reinvestigate its on-again, off-again plans for an affordable, lightweight sports coupe of its own. Nissan's Chief Creative Officer, Shiro Nakamura, says his employer is looking at downsizing its Z sports car, though it isn't clear if that would mean the Japanese automaker would field two separate Z models or just replace the current 370Z with a smaller, less costly model.

"I much prefer smaller sports car," Nakamura tells the Herald. "It is the time to look at that. With 370Z, we still don't know next generation will have a larger or smaller engine."

If Nissan were to reduce the size of the 370's powerplant, it would be the first time that model's displacement has dropped. Since the Z gets its model designation from the size of its engine (3.7 liter V6), Nissan could have a problem marketing a smaller Z called the 300Z, since the last time a new 300Z was sold in the States was way back in 1986.

More likely would be the revival of long-forgotten nameplates like 200SX or 240SX. Either would almost certainly be direct competition for the Subaru and Scion rear-drive coupes.

Nakamura reminded fans that even if the 370Z loses some cubic inches, Nissan will still have the young but already legendary GT-R. When asked if Nissan would be willing to support three sports cars, Nakamura says, "If there is a market, we will do it."

i love how he says "if there is a market, we will do it." the market has been there for years, your just too busy building crap like the murano cabriolet... wheres the market for that?

[RicerX]

Cannot wait for this.

*edit* I will repost my thoughts a bit later.

[DJ_B_Easy]

Destroy Altima Coupe
Rebirth 240SX

Ready? Go...

[Bubba1]

Destroy Altima Coupe
Rebirth 240SX

Ready? Go...

What if they equip it with a CVT?

[Heavy]

Destroy Altima Coupe
Rebirth 240SX

Ready? Go...

What if they equip it with a CVT?

the sad thing is that i see this happening...

[krash]

Destroy Altima Coupe
Rebirth 240SX

Ready? Go...

What if they equip it with a CVT?

Then they'll probably get a nice "thank you" check from Toyota/Subaru

I'm really hoping they don't just pop a smaller engine in the Z. A new chassis would be nice, but I'm afraid of seeing a RWD altima as thier "competitor" for the gorgeous BRZ.

[DJ_B_Easy]

^I highly doubt that they would make such a mistake if the attempt is to directly compete with the BRZ and FR-S.

Although I understand you can no longer purchase a new MT Pathfinder, so who knows. Maybe they will offer both, as the AC is now.

[300ZXttZMAN]

Anyone ever notice that Nakamura always says this phrase: " If there is a market, we will do it. "

He says that all the time!!


Anyway though I think they should make a new S chassis powered by the MR16DDT (juke engine). I think they shouldn't blend the Z with the cheap affordable RWD sports car and instead do this:

Make the next Z on a completely brand new chassis design (Z35) and the name of this Z should be 250ZXR the "X" means luxury and the "R" would stand for Revolution or Rebirth.

The only problem that I immediately for see is that 200ZR and 300ZR already exhists in other markets so yea that ruins it but atleast for our market (USDM) they could make the first one a 250ZXR.

The powerplant for the 250ZXR could be a 2.5L straight 6 DOHC turbo charged (T28 internal waste gate) with 370cc injectors, forged pistons/rods and a tripple forged crank and a viscous differential with the option for 6 speed standard or an option to have a 5speed auto.

Also include a NA model avalible with a 2.5L straight 6 DOHC with 270cc injectors and a viscous dif and the same transmission options.

The body should be a coupe with only 2 seats and have T-tops and be a hatch back. (other versions could be produced in the future)

The 250ZXR should not look like any Z we have ever seen before. It needs to be drawn up on a clean sheet of paper just like they did for the Z32...

Now on to the S-chassis

To be continued

What do yall think about that idea for the new Z so far though?

[SHIFT_COUPE]

Destroy Altima Coupe
Rebirth 240SX

Ready? Go...

I could agree with this if Nissan did it right. I've driven the AC because its their only other sporty 2 door car.

[Bubba1]

Destroy Altima Coupe
Rebirth 240SX

Ready? Go...

I could agree with this if Nissan did it right. I've driven the AC because its their only other sporty 2 door car.

If Nissan does end up building it, and does it right, how many of you would actually spend $25K and buy one new?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

and does it right,

Assuming they can keep the Murano crosscabriolet engineers at bay and actually pull that off, I'd pay for one.

[worldisgrand]

I would like to see a turbo'd inline 6 with less comforts and geared more towards performance. I don't need all the luxuries that are usually there. If your going to make it however have it designed so that if you do choose to put a stereo in you have that option. Give it the potential of cranking a lot more hp out of it with a boost controller upgrade. Give it an adjustable suspension right from the factory.

[DJ_B_Easy]

If Nissan does end up building it, and does it right, how many of you would actually spend $25K and buy one new?

I bought my AC new in 2007. Id give it a whirl if it offered more, which it would have to in order to be done properly.

I think if they made in as many packages as Hyundai did the Gen Coupe then it could be very successful. In fact, I think thats the only way they can make it an overall success. It needs to not only appeal to the tuners out there, but people like my mother and GF who actually looked at Gen Coupes because they were "cute".

[Xdisaster240sX]

Rebirth 240SX.

That is all thats needed

[skydragoness]

Destroy Altima Coupe
Rebirth 240SX

Ready? Go...

What if they equip it with a CVT?

Oh god. I'd set it on fire.

In all seriousness, Nissan is long overdue for filling in this gap. It would be so easy to revive the S chassis, make something along the lines of the BRZ/FR-S and sell it for slightly less. They won't do it though. I want the American market to have some cool hatchbacks..like the Volvo C30 and the CR-Z (or for Honda to make a non-hybrid CR-Z!!)

[hitbychance]

this news excites me lol

[Rev_D21]

Nissan doesn't know how to make small sporty cars anymore. I have huge doubts.

[krash]

Nissan doesn't know how to make small sporty cars anymore. I have huge doubts.

yup.

[orangeNblue]

If Nissan does end up building it, and does it right, how many of you would actually spend $25K and buy one new?

I would seriously think about it. I have a love hate relationship between the 240sx and the 350z...I keep going back and forth between the two. If they came out with a newer version of the 240sx, then I'd have to say I'd definitely be interested. I already plan on heading to both the suby and toyota dealerships whenever the brz and fr-s come out....

[asoomal]

Anyone ever notice that Nakamura always says this phrase: " If there is a market, we will do it. "

He says that all the time!!


Anyway though I think they should make a new S chassis powered by the MR16DDT (juke engine). I think they shouldn't blend the Z with the cheap affordable RWD sports car and instead do this:

Make the next Z on a completely brand new chassis design (Z35) and the name of this Z should be 250ZXR the "X" means luxury and the "R" would stand for Revolution or Rebirth.

The only problem that I immediately for see is that 200ZR and 300ZR already exhists in other markets so yea that ruins it but atleast for our market (USDM) they could make the first one a 250ZXR.

The powerplant for the 250ZXR could be a 2.5L straight 6 DOHC turbo charged (T28 internal waste gate) with 370cc injectors, forged pistons/rods and a tripple forged crank and a viscous differential with the option for 6 speed standard or an option to have a 5speed auto.

Also include a NA model avalible with a 2.5L straight 6 DOHC with 270cc injectors and a viscous dif and the same transmission options.

The body should be a coupe with only 2 seats and have T-tops and be a hatch back. (other versions could be produced in the future)

The 250ZXR should not look like any Z we have ever seen before. It needs to be drawn up on a clean sheet of paper just like they did for the Z32...

Now on to the S-chassis

To be continued

What do yall think about that idea for the new Z so far though?

Eh...T28 is an OLDDDDDDDD turbo.

Needs moar HLSD, none of that VLSD poop.

I'm thinking something like a 2.2-2.5 Inline 4 with a stroke of around 80mm and lots of bore and a huge deck height for a Rod to stroke ratio of around 1.8+?

[flohtingPoint]

240SX remake? WTF would anyone want to revisit this crap? Nissan has made enough junk in their lifetime, you dont need revenge of the junk. The amount of work needed to make an S-Chassis NOT suck is enormous.

The 370Z is a great car (way better than anything in the Toyota line), making a smaller, worse version of it would be a waste of time. If anything, continue to refine the car, dont make it with a more boring motor and less interior.

[Bubba1]

240SX remake? WTF would anyone want to revisit this crap? Nissan has made enough junk in their lifetime, you dont need revenge of the junk. The amount of work needed to make an S-Chassis NOT suck is enormous.

The 370Z is a great car (way better than anything in the Toyota line), making a smaller, worse version of it would be a waste of time. If anything, continue to refine the car, dont make it with a more boring motor and less interior.

Yeah, the 240sx was crap. When it was new, It was inexpensive, reliable, sporty looking, entertaining to drive, RWD, got mid 20's mpg. it's stock performance numbers were about mid-pack for it's competition when it came out. the 1989 S13 I bought new was particularly awful, it went 190,000 mostly trouble free miles , which included many track events. What a piece of junk. It was so bad the guy I sold it to kept on driving it.

were there faults? Sure, what car doesn't? No cupholders, a 118mph speed limiter, it shoulda had an SR20DET option and Nissan did a poor job marketing/developing it, focusing more on the more profitable 300ZX. Doesn't mean the 240sx was bad.

[alms24sebring]

The 240sx is dead, lets keep it that way.

Id like to see this in another chassis besides the 370. Its only a matter of time before car companies start creating knockoff BRZ/FRS

[300ZXttZMAN]

240SX remake? WTF would anyone want to revisit this crap? Nissan has made enough junk in their lifetime, you dont need revenge of the junk. The amount of work needed to make an S-Chassis NOT suck is enormous.

Highly disagree.

[flohtingPoint]

240SX remake? WTF would anyone want to revisit this crap? Nissan has made enough junk in their lifetime, you dont need revenge of the junk. The amount of work needed to make an S-Chassis NOT suck is enormous.

The 370Z is a great car (way better than anything in the Toyota line), making a smaller, worse version of it would be a waste of time. If anything, continue to refine the car, dont make it with a more boring motor and less interior.

Yeah, the 240sx was crap. When it was new, It was inexpensive, reliable, sporty looking, entertaining to drive, RWD, got mid 20's mpg. it's stock performance numbers were about mid-pack for it's competition when it came out. the 1989 S13 I bought new was particularly awful, it went 190,000 mostly trouble free miles , which included many track events. What a piece of junk. It was so bad the guy I sold it to kept on driving it.

were there faults? Sure, what car doesn't? No cupholders, a 118mph speed limiter, it shoulda had an SR20DET option and Nissan did a poor job marketing/developing it, focusing more on the more profitable 300ZX. Doesn't mean the 240sx was bad.

My camry went 240,000 miles (175K of it on the same water pump), does that mean it's a great performance car? You can do everything the 240SX did for you with my camry... Nissan already has enough boring vehicles in it's line, it does not need another one.

There were plenty of faults with it, starting first and foremost with a genuinely terrible mcstrut configuration, the front end of that car is a total mess. An SR20 wouldn't change the faults with the suspension/geometry.

The true test of a "performance" car is something that can be competitive out of the box. The 240SX was MASSIVELY far from such, it's slow, clumsy, and soft. The 370Z, however, is a very competent vehicle, and fits the needs of anyone looking for a proper entry level performance vehicle. I'd take one any day over a FRS/BRZ.

240SX remake? WTF would anyone want to revisit this crap? Nissan has made enough junk in their lifetime, you dont need revenge of the junk. The amount of work needed to make an S-Chassis NOT suck is enormous.

Highly disagree.

Really? How many competitive s-series have you driven/built? I drove these POS' all over Europe, it took an exorbitant amount of money/time to make mine class ready to take podiums.

[krash]

Yeah, the 240sx was crap. When it was new, It was inexpensive, reliable, sporty looking, entertaining to drive, RWD, got mid 20's mpg. it's stock performance numbers were about mid-pack for it's competition when it came out. the 1989 S13 I bought new was particularly awful, it went 190,000 mostly trouble free miles , which included many track events. What a piece of junk. It was so bad the guy I sold it to kept on driving it.

Thank you, sir. Its not the best car in the world, but its got its place. Also, I thought the whole "240s suck" bandwagon was over?

The powerplant for the 250ZXR could be a 2.5L straight 6 DOHC turbo charged (T28 internal waste gate) with 370cc injectors, forged pistons/rods and a tripple forged crank and a viscous differential with the option for 6 speed standard or an option to have a 5speed auto.

I would like to see a turbo'd inline 6 with less comforts and geared more towards performance.

We're looking for a cheap RWD car. Those specs put it very close into the 370z's territory.

I'm thinking something like a 2.2-2.5 Inline 4 with a stroke of around 80mm and lots of bore and a huge deck height for a Rod to stroke ratio of around 1.8+?

Anyway though I think they should make a new S chassis powered by the MR16DDT (juke engine).

This is what should and probably will happen, if it happens. I could also see them using a VQ25HR (from the G25). Actually, I think that would be the perfect motor for it.

Toyobaru did a perfect job on the BRZ/FR-S. They kept production cheap, they knew their target audience, and the executed a perfect plan. Available luxuries, but an available base model package that doesn't completely suck. A motor that people already know about. Being able to fit a boxer engine in there means being able to fit a lot of other things in there as well, and it has been done multiple times already. Fenders without inner lips. Parts that are interchangeable from other cars. Its all put together in a perfect package that makes taking up a car payment seem like a good idea to me.

I really don't see Nissan doing it, or doing it right. Toyota NEEDED this car. The closest thing they had to a sports car was the Corolla S, and nimble as it might be, its a pile of boring. Oh yes they have the TC, but, cmon, really? Nissan doesn't really NEED it yet. They've got the Z for the crowd that can afford a full on sports car, and the GTR for the rich people. I'm really doubting that they're going to make room for a proper, affordable sports car. And if they do do it (hah, do do), they're going to shove those awful altima headlights and a CVT down our throats.

That being said, I REALLY hope Nissan does it, and does it right.

[300ZXttZMAN]

Yeah, the 240sx was crap. When it was new, It was inexpensive, reliable, sporty looking, entertaining to drive, RWD, got mid 20's mpg. it's stock performance numbers were about mid-pack for it's competition when it came out. the 1989 S13 I bought new was particularly awful, it went 190,000 mostly trouble free miles , which included many track events. What a piece of junk. It was so bad the guy I sold it to kept on driving it.

were there faults? Sure, what car doesn't? No cupholders, a 118mph speed limiter, it shoulda had an SR20DET option and Nissan did a poor job marketing/developing it, focusing more on the more profitable 300ZX. Doesn't mean the 240sx was bad.

I agree completely. I look forward to seeing S16's driving around.

[alms24sebring]

There were plenty of faults with it, starting first and foremost with a genuinely terrible mcstrut configuration, the front end of that car is a total mess. An SR20 wouldn't change the faults with the suspension/geometry.

Really? How many competitive s-series have you driven/built? I drove these POS' all over Europe, it took an exorbitant amount of money/time to make mine class ready to take podiums.

I think you might be a little too critical on this. Remember it was a cheap car that was massively produced. Also remember that this was the early to mid 90's technology. Sure it had flaws but comparing them to a modern car isnt fair IMO.

Im not sure sure how I would feel about Nissan attempting a low priced competitor to Suboyota. I think they've kind of stepped away from all the performance aspects (besides GTR) to more bigger comfier cars (Altimas and Maximas etc). Granted that the VQ is a powerful enough V6, I think its closest competitor is the 350/370 Zs. Its a good platform but the downside is cost by comparison.

[Bubba1]

Jim: what on earth made you think the 240sx was a performance car? It was a budget priced sporty coupe, designed for the street, not the track. It was no more a sports car than a Toyota Celica, Honda Prelude, or Ford Probe of its day. The fact it was a RWDer, made it more entertaining to drive. So I'm not sure how you can conclude it was a boring car.

Methinks you're thinking too much like an autocrosser. The 240sx front suspension was perfectly fine for it's designed use and quite durable. What mess? I enjoyed tossing mine around with the stock McStruts, as it was very easy car to rotate and it never broke down. That's why drifters love them. At the end of the day, it was a momentum car, not unlike the cars it sold against. The only thing the 240sx really needed, and most of the autorags agreed, was more power. the saddest part of the 240sx was Nissan had the right motor (SR) and even used it in the Japanese market but decided against using it in the US version.

[mmkeller]

Where does it say that Nissan has to build a competitor? If they do it will be perceived as a Toyobaru want-a-be. Nissan needs to go back to the drawing board and build a car that represents the future of the brand. Now is not the time to "copy" but to connect with true sports car enthusiast. I even hope the Altima Coupe is discontinued in favor of a new entry level sports car. One thing Nissan could bring is a mid engine with fuel economy but with performance. Don't make it like the NSX, but put the body of Nissan's ESflow on it. A 2 seater with the option of an auto and manual transmission. Oh, and make it around 28k. Can Nissan do it, time will tell. Nissan NEEDS a car but not the BRZ/FR-S.