New guy, with new old q45

[SATAN]

I posted in the general chat room introducing myself and what I do, so i will just cut to the chase here.

Just picked up a 90 Q, black, really straight, interior in good shape, engine not running. $500

Got the car home, started going through the engine, Coils were just resting on the plugs, driver cam sensor was out and disassembled and sitting in a box in the back seat. Put it together and put it back in, put coils on, hooked the MAF back up and throttle cable. The guys mechanic had it torn apart and the guy doesnt know what the mechanic was trying to fix. Now I have to pick up where he left off.

Tried to fire it up with no avail. Pulled a plug, smelled of fuel, put it in a coil, set it on the manifold and cranked... No spark.

Now, with the cam sensor, when I put it back together I noticed a pin that goes through the shaft. That shaft appears to "plug" into the cam. However, it can go in at like 4 different angles. I would assume that by eye balling it putting it in, I have a 25% chance of getting it right. Does that sound right? Also, is that pin supposed to go all the way through the shaft, to where there are equal parts of the pin exposed on each side of the shaft.

Other question, I wouldn't think the cam sensor would cause no spark at all. It would have to be an ignitor right?

Fuel pump fires up and runs, again, plugs smell of fuel.

I dont think the timing chain has slipped yet due to the plastic guides, because the engine SOUNDS like it has compression, I have not actually done a comp test yet though. If it did slip, I dont think it jumped more than two teeth on the cam or 1 on the crank.

I will spend some time searching and looking for anything that sounds like my problem, but if anything is blatantly obvious that you know right off the bat that could be my problem, it would be greatly appreciated if you could post your thoughts.

Thank you.

[Razi]

Congrats, Q45's rock.

[maxnix]

Read the timing chain guide article, then immediately proceed to inspecting them by removing the timing chain front covers.

All will be lost if it jumps the next time you try to start it.

You must start with basic flaws first.

Welcome to NICO.

[Haitian_King]

Nice deal. I'm trying to find one for $500.

[elwesso]

if the chain slipped you'd probably know. I'd buy a new cam sensor, those things cannot very sucessfully be taken apart... That would cetainly cause a no spark setup, since the coil firing is controlled by that.. take the cam sensor out and spin it, and if the injectors fire it may be still good..

Have you checked the ECU?

[SATAN]

Great, dont cam sensors go for like $200 USED! LOL.

Yeah, the cam sensor was taken apart and the little woodruff key in the magnetic part of it is missing.

So, the cam sensor would actually cause igniter's to not fire spark huh? Well crap, time to search the classifieds. I was thinking that maybe the igniter/ 's were bad. I'll have more daylight to jack with it today.

Also, I have not checked the ECU simply because I smelled fuel on the plug and figured the injector drivers were working so... Maybe I will look into that some more today.

Thanks for sharing your experience guys.

[elwesso]

Cam sensors hardly fail, id try and pick one up for under $50 (shoudlnt be a big deal)

[SATAN]

Ok, I've got pictures and questions.

These connectors, what do they go to. One is coming out of the fire wall on the harness (the one I am pointing at) and the other is in the big harness that goes to the coils. I cant find anything to plug them into though. There is also one on the driver side as well.This is the one on the driver side

The cam sensor that is missing the woodruff key.and the other side of it that the pin is not going all the way through. I swear that pin has to go all the way through, but I fear I will damage the sensor if I try pounding on it any harder to get it through. Its stuck pretty good.

And this cover was pulled. What would one be looking for at the timing chain through this little hole? Why do you think this was taken off, is my question?

And then an engine shot. Other than the plumbing to the throttle body (which I have), does it look like there is something blatantly missing that I dont know about?

[Q45tech]

Many of us are prohibited from speaking to SATAN especially on Sunday.But in my suggestion is to follow the FSM drawings to see how all those components were disconnected in what was obviously a diagnostic attempt that stopped and was never completed

[mxr662]

Those three connectors do not attach to anything.

Your are missing your radiator cap, the 3 plastic trim pieces that cover the front part of the engine. Part of A/C is disconnected. Probably a lot easier to reseal the passenger side valve cover with that A/C hose disconnected.

[SATAN]

Well, I Just did a search for an on line FSM and only came up with the years of 97 and later I believe. So I went and bought one off of Ebay that cover's 90-96. Figured I cant really go wrong for $7 shipped. So I will figure it out when it gets here I guess.

[maxnix]

You went wrong unless you got one of Jeff's CD.

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/Q45/

[SATAN]

OH yeah, thats what it was 94 and up. Figured if I was going to buy something for my car, it might as well include the year of the vehicle that I own.

Like I said, I am new to these forums and new to the Q. So I wasn't going to buy one that said 1994, simply because I didnt know.

EDIT: Yeah, every time I click on those pdf's my computer freezes. I'll just wait, I guess.

So, then since they dont have them available for the 90-93, the 94 would work for those years then?
Modified by SATAN at 8:36 PM 1/6/2008

[drftard]

same question! i thought when referring to FSM's & archives with the search buttons new owners of Q's ME & this guy... could find some helpful input but it seems kind of hard to find...

when searching in FSMS its all 94+ so same question posed... does 94 have the same outline & is everyting exactly the same...

i believe if your able to save the target as... u can save the adobe pdf file to your computer & using adobe reader you should be able to open the file...

mxr662: your pictures of the engine bay... ARE BEAUTIFUL!!! how did you find a Q in that great of a condition! I dream of that engine bay cleanness...

[mxr662]

mxr662: your pictures of the engine bay... ARE BEAUTIFUL!!! how did you find a Q in that great of a condition! I dream of that engine bay cleanness...

My son came home one day and said the neighbor had some car for sale that looked cool. Bought it on the spot for 2000.

when searching in FSMS its all 94+ so same question posed... does 94 have the same outline & is everyting exactly the same...

Some is very similar from 90-93 and 94+, but other things are much different.

So I went and bought one off of Ebay that cover's 90-96.

I bought one off ebay and it was the same download that's free. The 1994 manual with renamed files. Then the seller disappeared.

Andy

[mxr662]

Many of us are prohibited from speaking to SATAN especially on Sunday.

Yes it does seem odd quoting SATAN

Picture of mine with Jeff Williams strut tower brace

[gammer_ghn]

Even satan cant resist the goodness of a Q the car is so good that he went and bought one that doesnt even run lmaoWelcome to Nico! and try to search as much as you can because they will getcha on that!

[maxnix]

Welcome to Nico! and try to search as much as you can because they will getcha on that!

The fact is the orginal discussions are much richer in detail and nuance then the fourth, eigth, and fifteenth regurgitation of the same topic.

A new owner by spending time reading Q45tech's previoius posts will learn how to approach the FSM and how the car's systems work together, which means when an owner has a problem, he can analyze it by isolating the relevant variables, presenting the relevant data, ask the question intelligently, and get a helpful answer from board members.

Much different than saying "I just bought a Q45, don't know the maintenance history, but the cruise control is affecting the fan speed and the seat postion and causing the left front tire to wear prematurely and the timing belt fluid is green. What's wrong?"
Modified by maxnix at 6:40 AM 1/8/2008

[SATAN]

BUT BUT BUT... My timing belt fluid is green, and my piston return springs seem to be making a strange noise! ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!!!!!

I will spend some more time searching. Thanks for the insite guys.

[goody90q45]

Ok, I've got pictures and questions......and the other side of it that the pin is not going all the way through. I swear that pin has to go all the way through, but I fear I will damage the sensor if I try pounding on it any harder to get it through. Its stuck pretty good.

It looks like you're missing the piece on the end of the shaft that the pin holds in. If you haven't got it or the adapter plate that bolts to the engine it's time for a new CAS. I just happen to have this one for sale from a 91Q, P/N 23731-60U13. If you're interested send me an email.

Judging by the pics you've posted with various parts being pulled and the noises the engine is making when it cranks, I'm going to guess that the PO jumped a tooth or two (chain guides). Take Brian's advice and remove the timing chain covers to see if the guides are still intact. Good luck.

[GseaQ]

[QUOTE=SATAN]Ok, I've got pictures and questions.

And this cover was pulled. What would one be looking for at the timing chain through this little hole? Why do you think this was taken off, is my question?

This looks like the cover some take off to check if the timing chain guides have been replaced or not. If so, you should be able to see the metal backing plate the plastic guide is molded to. No metal = old/original guides.

You may be able to see if the guide behind that cover is broken, but that won't tell you the condition of the others. Good luck.

Glenn

[SATAN]

Cool, thanks guys. After seeing that pic of the CAS, I think I will just take the whole damn front apart and replace the guides, time it, buy a cam sensor and go from there. Its allready started, so I will just finish it.

[Haitian_King]

Ugh. Everytime I think about my guides, I have a small panic attack. I want to do them myself, but I'm afraid to do them alone. I'd have my dad help me, but we'd still be somewhat in the dark. I've been studying all of the posts and write-ups. I've even printed them out and read them over and over. Theoretically, I know what needs to be done. As far as the practical portion, I'm so afraid that I'll ruin it. My other option is to take it to Van Meter's, but he says that he'll have to keep the car a week. (I can't be without a car for that long). Is there anywhere else I can take it to get done besides the dealership? (they probably won't even do it.) Going by what I've read, this job shouldn't take more than a weekend, even while going slowly.

I have my shiny new Craftsman set and I'm itching to use it, but I'm mortified at the thought of destroying the engine by doing something wrong. If I screw this up, I'll be totally up and over Fecal Falls (If you catch my drift)

[GseaQ]

Hi Satan,

Slow down a bit. Like you, we're all wondering what job the previous owner was in the middle of when he left it in that condition.

If the guides had already failed/cracked/broke and he was tracking down why the engine would not start, then there will be no point in going any further. If that was what happend (and we all hope that is NOT the case), then you may be better off looking for a JDM takeout engine.

When the chain jumps 2 teeth because of chain guide pieces getting wedged between chain and sprocket you lose a cylinder head with the possibility of also losing a piston. It may or may not survive a 1 tooth jump. Get an inspection mirror and light and look through that opening really hard to see what that guide looks like.

Our fingers are crossed for you.

Glenn

[SATAN]

Well, Its cold here, so... Its not happening any time VERY soon. I gotta wait till I have time AND its a nice day due to the fact that the Q sits outside because the 300zx's call the garage home. The Q can wait, its not a big deal. I bought it cause I had extra money and i secretly wanted the R200 carrier that has the 30 spline count like the R230 TTZ diff. I was going to swap that into my R200 case and hybrid the BDO half shafts to mate to my Z31 half shafts. Shhh dont tell my wife LOL.

Then I saw the condition of the car. Its actually a very nice car. So now I gotta go find another Q diff and BDO's because the wife wants to keep this one LOL.

maybe I'll just run a compression test on in for the next thing I do. That will tell me something. I've read that a 1 tooth crank jump may survive or a 2 tooth cam jump may survive. If it jump two crank teeth, then forget it. Each cam tooth is 10 degrees and each crank tooth is 20 right? So its 18 and 36 teeth right? meh, I can search that.

[SATAN]

If you are scared to hurt the car, then dont do it. Send it somewhere. This should calm you down some though. We all had to start somewhere. Nobody on this planet was born with the knowledge of replacing timing chain guides.

It shouldn't be too difficult by what I have read. You dont even have to pull the timing chains.

[maxnix]

You really don't want to spin the engine until you inspect the guides.

Can't make it any clearer than that.

[Lifted79CJ7]

You went wrong unless you got one of Jeff's CD.

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/Q45/

Not to highjack this thread, but if someone will PM me - I have the '91 FSM that can be posted...

[Haitian_King]

Well. After talking it over with my padre, I've come to two options. Starting tomorrow, I check the parts and add up total cost of parts. I purchase the parts and check my usual mechanic Mr. Dung and ask how much he'll do it for. The longest I can leave the car for is a weekend. 3 days is stretching. If he says he can't do it, or names some outrageous price, my dad says that he'll do the guides with me. I told him about NICO and all the steps and pictures that I printed. He's willing to give it a shot.

At the same time I have to re-seal a valve cover. Maybe both. Keith said there was a leak, but he didn't specify which side. Should I just do both to be safe? That's not a hard job is it?

Maxnix, I really wish I could just let the car sit until the guides are done, but I can't not go to work. I'm also not of age to rent a car. (In NJ you have to be 25.) I've been keeping my number of starts to a minimum and plan trips and errands around it. I've given up on racing at the moment as well. Keeping my rev's below 3k as much as I can too.

I had a dream that the engine seized. I guess I had to imagine the sound. (I've never heard one.) The car was idling and I was standing next to it. Next thing I knew, I heard a grinding rattle and the car just shut off. Scary as hell. I think I screamed.

[GseaQ]

So now I gotta go find another Q diff and BDO's because the wife wants to keep this one LOL.

Hey Satan,

You're playing with fire to even try a compression test without confirming that the guides are OK and the chain has not jumped.

As for the diff, I hope to have one to sell next week with 4.08 gears in it. I haven't researched enough to figure out a price yet.

Glenn