Need reasons to why I have just killed my 2nd GT32 turbo in 1600 miles

[s14det]

I just found out tonight I just killed my 2nd AMS GT32 turbo. The first one lasted about 300 miles on a fresh rebuilt engine. (oil change 3-4 times) The turbo repair person said that something got inside of the the turbo and chewed it up. It was beyond repair so had to buy a new center section which is $540. Then I upgraded to -4 lines with JGS turbo filter and -10 drain. Also added a magnetic drain plug. I ran that from 300miles to about 1100. Drained the oil and the magnetic plug looked like what it does in the PIC below. I switch to Mobil 1 Synth. Ran that from 1100 to about 1600 miles. I was driving on the highway yesterday boosting about 14psi in 5th gear when I hear this pop sound. I just sounded like a coupler coming off or something. The strange is that it still ran fine and idled fine. It just would not boost in 5th gear. Well I was getting about 4-5psi but coming on very late. I checked it today to find out the turbo as alot of shaft play and the wheels are hitting the housing. I checked this turbo about 4-5 days ago while looking for boost leaks and it seemed fine. So I said a few choice words and took the turbo out again. The turbo smells of burnt oil and when I took the turbo drain line off but there did not seem to be any oil dripping out. I drained the engine oil and the Drain plugged looked like this again. The last two times I have drain the oil the plug has looked like this. Most of the stuff on it is like powder but there are some slivers of metal (looks like a hair). I'm going to talk with my engine guy tomorrow but wanted to see what you guys thought of this. If this 2nd turbo is not able to be rebuilt, it will be another $540. I'm pretty sure this is not normal for an engine with 1600ish miles to have so much Metal shavings on the drail plug. If I have to take the engine apart I am all for it since buying turbo's every 600ish miles freaking sucks and fixing a engine now before it really goes would cost be alot more.



Thanks for reading and sorry for the long post, but I have to get this fixed because I can not afford to keep buying turbo's or have a broken engine in the near future.

[USsil80]

the first thing that comes to mind is the turbo is getting to much oil or not enough.... does the turbo need a restrictor??? is the turbo draining???? is the oil pump pumping enough oil to get enough to the turbo????just some easy things to check...

[Bosrudorfer]

What is your fuel setup? Injectors? Fuel pump? Do you have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator? Was your car dyno tuned?

[s14det]

Oil pressure reads correct which is on the same sandwich adapter as the turbo feed line. I have not yet checked the turbo oil line filter yet. Turbo does not need a restrictor and when I checked the turbo 4-5 days ago the shaft play was fine. Like I said it made a Pop noise yesterday like when a pipe pops off due to pressure. The car runs (well did ) at 11-11.5 A/F and has ECU by Scott. Not sure why fuel system would matter but I have the old phatka-t fuel system with 75 lber's. My main concern is to why I have so much metal deposits on the magnetic drain plug even after 1600 miles. I switched to syn. oil at 1100ish miles so that should be fine. I have been running around 13-15 psi with 91 octane. I also have an oil cooler with mocal thermostat..

[Jookmasta]

check the engine builder for sure..........i doubt the turbo's are going out by themselves. that amount of metal shavings is definitely enough to cause some issues though................lucky u got that magnetic drain plug eh? keep us posted as to the diagnosis

[WDRacing]

Ok, I've smoked a few turbo's in my day, usually by doing somthing stupid on my part. Here's how I've seen turbo's and seals go bad. If the drain is to small or restricted, you'll blow the rear oil seal and oil will pour into the downpipe and smoke like the hell.

I've also had my pressure/supply line get kinked and I smoked the turbo because it didn't have enough oil, in this case, it did exactly what your saying it did. When the bushings inside the turbo go bad, the go quickly. All the material from said bushings goes straight to the oil pan...straight to the mag plug etc. My guess would be oil supply. If you had shavings going into the turbo, I'd say you'd notice it would be laggy long before the wheel would contact the housing because the shavings would slow down the shaft etc. But I don't think this is the problem. I'd say your supply line..or lack of oil pressure at the turbo for whatever reason.

Either way, don't buy a new turbo brah, you can rebuild the one you have. Unless the compressor wheel is SO trashed it won't boost, but I doubt that. I used one that was ALL kinds of beat up and it lasted over a year. If this is the route you want to go, let me know, I'll hunt down the links for you to get parts etc. Its very easy man, I've done quite a few myself...I think Chezdik has done one or two...

Check the oil lines...infact, take them off and blow through them to make sure.

And post some pics of your car...just cause I like pictures...lol.

WD

[WDRacing]

Oh yeah, before I forget, is this a brand new motor...like just rebuilt etc?

[C-Kwik]

I'd like to see the damage to the turbos...

[s14det]

Oh yeah, before I forget, is this a brand new motor...like just rebuilt etc?

Yea this is a fresh rebuilt motor with about 1600 miles on it. Well the last turbo that was trashed I was told by the people that AMS send its turbos to that is was past being repaired. Both times that this has happened there is NO smoke coming out of the exhaust. When I changed the oil 500 miles ago when the turbo seemed fine the plug had the same amount of crap on it. I have a feeling that this turbo will be the same and not be able to be fixed. The sides of the wheels are flat where it rubbed on the housing. The turbo spins fine tho, just alot of side to side moment. Last time tho it would boost just the turbo made a wooble sound, like it was out of balance. Which in a way it was since it has alot of moment side to side. I just sent my turbo to AMS to have them take a look at it. With my luck right now I am not sure if I trust my self rebuilding it. I have a feeling I will be pulling the engine out!!!!

[WDRacing]

Thats alot of material on the mag plug...I have a huge magnet in my oil pan. I can only imagine what it has on it.

WD

[USsil80]

+1 for the taking off of the lines and blowing them out with a air chuck... also something that came to mind is too rev the motor and see if it moves pinching any lines or anything like that... can we get some engine bay pics... very intersited to see what this problem is

[GlacierFreeze]

Based on the pic and what others said, I bet some shavings clogged the lines causing the turbo to be starved of oil.

[Florida240sx]

Yes, but if the shaving is from the turbo, then what started it in the first place?

[s14det]

Yes, but if the shaving is from the turbo, then what started it in the first place?

Yes, that is what I need to find out before I put my 3rd center section on in less the 2000 miles of this rebuilt engine. Like I said the drain plug looked just like this about 500 miles ago when I switched to Sync oil. This center section has about 1200 miles or so on it. I'm going to check the JGS turbo filter tomorrow to see if that is clogged or not.

[Florida240sx]

What do you have coming off the block to your turbo?? A T or straight line to your turbo. Sure there isn't a restrictor in your turbo feed line? Take it off and blow it outwith one end in a jar so you can see if anything was in there stuck....

[Chezedik]

Did I hear my name? Anyway, it isn't the bushings in the turbo, because they are brass and that would not stick to the magnet. It may be part of the shaft though. Also, am I the only one who realized that he said there was an inline filter? Has this been replaced since the first turbo failed? If not, you could have been running your new one dry while the filter was clogged with shavings from your old one.

[s14det]

What do you have coming off the block to your turbo?? A T or straight line to your turbo. Sure there isn't a restrictor in your turbo feed line? Take it off and blow it outwith one end in a jar so you can see if anything was in there stuck....

I have the SPLparts oil adapter where I have the oil pressure sensor and turbo feed line connected to it. The oil pressure reads 15-20psi idle and 50psi at 3K while crusing and it goes up once the RPM's go up.

Did I hear my name? Anyway, it isn't the bushings in the turbo, because they are brass and that would not stick to the magnet. It may be part of the shaft though. Also, am I the only one who realized that he said there was an inline filter? Has this been replaced since the first turbo failed? If not, you could have been running your new one dry while the filter was clogged with shavings from your old one.

I did take the filter element out and look at it and it seemed clean when I switched to Sync oil. I did spray brake cleaner on both sides of it (high pressure) and then installed it and turned over the engine many times while the oil went through it and went into my oil container. This time tho I am going to buy a new filter from JGS and buy new ones every time and change my oil. What I should of done is used a magnetic on the filter element and see if any metal came out of it. But it is a little late for that.

[exode]

rebuilt motor eh? that should be like a 4000 mile break in, my last car it took around 500 miles before my gt30 even started to spool a little bit

pushing it to hard too fast?

[TheOne]

rebuilt motor eh? that should be like a 4000 mile break in, my last car it took around 500 miles before my gt30 even started to spool a little bit

pushing it to hard too fast?

i was thinkin that too, did you break it in right?, there shouldn't be any shavings if the engine was rebuilt right, there may be some but only for the first couple of miles(due to the piston rings sitting), but usually there shouldn't be any, at all.

[WDRacing]

It doesn't take 4000 miles to break in a motor...but how was this one broken in?

Cheze, I know the bushings are brass and won't stick to the magnet, but having them caught up and tossed around by your crank journals will place those said brass chunks in places they shouldn't be.

On to the filter. I've never seen ANYONE run a filter on the supply line. Are we sure this isn't starving the turbo all by itself? Let alone if its clogged.

Honestly, the pan needs to come off and an inspection needs to be done, if nothing turns up, then the head needs to come apart.

WD

[Chezedik]

#1 Break in is for p******.

How you are going to drive it determines how it needs to break in. Also, if the engine was properly assembled, break in should be almost 0.

BTW WD, I wasn't calling you out, my point was that brass is softer than steel, and so wouldn't cause damage to steel parts except by possibly brinelling.

What I think is happening is that this turbo is eating chunks and it is killing them. How was the oil pump?

EDIT: The oil pump is aluminum, so here are your options: cyl walls, piston rings, turbo shaft, camshaft or lifter shims, timing set. You will notice that 4 of 5 involve getting in your engine, and one you keep replacing. Talk to your builder! Unless there is some information we are not getting, then those are your options. They are the only parts that are getting wet.

[Chezedik]

Oh, and 20 psi is pretty low for idle. I would think about turning the knob on that one.

[WDRacing]

#1 Break in is for p******.

I'd give it about 100 miles of not balls out driving. But heavy decel helps pull alot of vac and get those rings sealed up. I guess I just run low boost and drive it normal really. Yeah, I agree, breakin is for p******...obviously it did no good here!

[j-z]

4000k miles to break a motor in WTF??? i have to say those metal shavings are from inside your motor. they probably got pumped into your feed line and clogged it killing your turbo. on my fresh motor that i built, i only broke it in for 200 somethin miles. im almost at 2500 miles with no shavings like that at all on my drain plug. reminds me its time for me to go ahead and switch to synthetic. talk to your engine builder for reals.

[s14det]

Well I talked to my engine builder and it is not sure either. The stuff on the plug is like powder. You can roll it around on your finger and would not even now it was metal. He said it feels like moly lube almost. You stick a magnet to it and it sticks to it. I do have the old turbo that was blown in the first 300 miles. I took it apart and the shaft was fine. The acutall housing was damaged. There is small grooves in the housing . Like on a cam when the bearings have gotten dirty oil and it makes a groove around it. We are going to start the process of figuring out what is causing this. I am going to drop the pan and see what story it tells us. The compresson on this engine is 151-159 for 8.8 aries pistons. The car runs fine, no strange noises and does not smoke at all. Anyway I will keep this update with what ever I fine out. Thanks guys for all the help

I checked the turbo filter and there was alot of stuff in it. I tried to take a magnet and get it out, but would not come out. When I first took it out I tried to blow through it. It was not easy to blow through it, which might of been because of the oil that was still in the filter. So do you guys think it was a bad idea to run the inline filter? Seems like it made the turbo last 1300 miles instead of 300 miles.
Modified by s14det at 10:58 PM 11/1/2006

[Florida240sx]

What kind of oil pressure gauge you got??? May be giving a bad reading, my autometer crapped out on me after 1 month......I went 397miles without beating on my engine at all. Got it to like 5psi once or twice on the interstate then had a SS camaro laugh at me.... I said let's see what you got been beating on it since

[s14det]

I also have a autometer.

Cold idle=approx. 50psiwarm idle=20psidriving under 3k=between 45-50psi3K up=50+ psi

[NateDogg]

You need the oil pressure gauge after the filter or it won't measure what the turbo "sees".

[Chezedik]

I think one possiblity is that the filter is killing your turbos, no one else uses them, and I suggest you ditch it as well. If it is getting clogged it is starving the turbo, and as we all should know by now:

Dirty oil is better than no oil

Take that to the bank.

[s14det]

the Filter was not on the first turbo that died in 300 miles w 3-4 oil changes with-in that time frame. Well this weekend I am going to take the pan off, take the valve cover and take the oil filter apart to see what if it shows me anything