My VH45DE S13 swap thread

[mtmetzger]

Here are my finding for the eveing... ugh

1 - After putting the engine at TDC, I realized that my cam timing was off a couple teeth on the exhaust side of the left head... Didn't even check the right. Those lobes are supposed to be pointing right at the exhaust port and the notch in the cam is there so you can remove the head bolts, so it's supposed to be parallel.


2 - More broken chain guides



(This was on top of the oil pan baffle)


3 - What's missing here? The oil pump chain! WTF?!?!?!


4 - The oil pump pulley was free spinning on the crank shaft. There's a key way in it, but no key or place in the crank for a key. I guess it slides into the front chain pulley keyway, but it's MIA.


5 - This is really cute. I went fishing with a magnet in the oil pan to see if I could recover the oil pump chain and found this..

...part of it anyway.

So here are my options:
A- pull it back out, remove the oil pan to retrieve whatever is in there and hope the rest of the engine is good
B - Scrap this engine and put a KA in the b****
C - Pull it back out, break it down for inspection, hone, new rings, bearings, valve job gaskets, etc ($$$$$$$$)

I'm thinking option A for now.

[kingkilburn]

That chain pulley is held on by the crank pulley being torqued down properly.

I would be seriously checking the bearings now that you know there was no oil being pumped.

[mtmetzger]

Not much progress to report right now because I was out of town last week. I did upload a picture from when I dropped the oil pan. The chain tensioner bolts loosened up and it slung the oil pump chain off. I was just kinda draped over the oil pickup. I pulled it out along with a couple chunks of timing chain guide. Luckily it did no damage to anything inside. The bearings that I pulled looked brand new and there was nothing on the oil pick up screen. I'm ordering a new timing set and oil pump chain today, so hopefully they will be in by the end of the week.

[mtmetzger]

Painted the engine bay. :/

primed up:


Painted:

[mtmetzger]

Cleaned up the garage real quick today.


New timing components came in. I'm pretty pleased with everything.


Chain retainer on front lower timing cover was broke, so I ordered a new one from a junk yard. Old one on top, new one on bottom. I'm thinking it won't fit. Hopefully they have the right one in stock. :/

[HeadAblaze]

Man, I'm glad that you, and some other people have detailed posts of these swaps. I really am considering this swap, at least once I have a garage or a car port to work under. Does it matter what year VH45 you use? There is a 96 Q45 parts car for $600 over here that I'm considering buying.

[mtmetzger]

I think they are all similar. The early ones like I have had the s*** timing guides, which they updated a few years later... From looking at the wiring diagrams between 90 and 96, they are very close. I think they did away with the variable timing on the 96, but that would not stop me from buying that Q45 for $600. I'd say snatch it up! Hell I just spend over half that on timing crap for this engine! You would get all the accessories you need with the whole car and you could probably sell doo-dads from the interior and scrap the body and get all your money back if not more.

[HeadAblaze]

Yeah, that's very true> I looked more into the car, and it has 190,XXX miles...Screw that, haha, I don't really feel like rebuilding anything right now. But in the future I'm gonna get a shell and start up the prject.

[speedeast]

Do you have anymore details regarding your wiring? I've started wiring mine and I would like to compare to see where we stand.

[mtmetzger]

I took a few little notes, but didn't really document everything. Basically just had the S13 chassis diagram and Q45 engine diagrams sitting next to each other and traced each wire back. The big thing to making it run in the S13 (and this is just from memory) is that you have to add an additional relay for the ECCS system. The Q45 uses a fuel pump resistor module that the S13 does not have, so you just send the wire to the FP relay up front rather than the module in the back. Also there were about 5-6 wires that you have to power in the engine harness. If there's something specific you are trying to figure out, I'll dig up my harness notes and see what we can come up with.

[speedeast]

Do you have any details on which wires need to be powered and the best way to accomplish this. I would assume you could just run the power from battery or ignition, whatever is necessary and throw a fuse in the middle of it. Any help you can provide might save me a lot of time. I've mapped out every pin on the Q ecu and have made other notes, but I just started on this.

[mtmetzger]

If you've already mapped out the ECU plugs, now it's time to do the interior harness plugs. There are a lot you don't use.. For example, mine had traction control so the entire harness for the secondary throttle are not used (the 2nd throttle is cut off my TB) You obvoiusly know what you are doing if you've mapped out the ECU plugs, so just do the same for the others. You will see where they go to the Q45 fuse box.. just make a note of what amp fuse you need to put on it and get a fuse block with 6 slots from the parts store. As far as the switched power, I actrually ran a wire from my ignition switch to a relay and put all switched wires on that so it did't pull too much current from the key switch. There are plenty of resources to explain how a relay works, but here's a quick explaination:

85: ground
86: switched ignition power (active while cranking) AKA Ignition 1
30: connect all your switched wires to this post
87: battery power

This way the switched circuits pull from your main battery lead rather than the key switch, but they are only energized when the ingnition is on. Be sure to put about a 30A fuse on the battery wire going to the relay. If you get seriously stuck, I'll jump under the dash and give you the wire colors, but that would involve pulling apart my pretty wiring job to see. Definately don't mind to do it if you are in a bind though.

[speedeast]

I appreciate the help. I am pretty relay savvy. I will be diving into this some more either tonight or tomorrow morning. At that time I will probably be able to generate a few questions regarding what you've done. Hopefully it won't get to the point where you need to tear your wiring job apart, but I appreciate knowing you would. Let's see where it goes. Good luck with what you have going on. I am here if you have any questions as well... subscribed.

[speedeast]

Now come the questions. There are a few wires in the VH Engine Harness white connector that i can't identify.

Light Green/White - Dual pressure switch?
Blue/Black - ?????
Brown/White - ?????
Brown/Yellow - ?????
Yellow/White - ?????
Red - ?????

On the blue connector:

Yellow/White - ?????
Green - ?????
Blue/Yellow - N&P Relay?

Any help you can provide would be most appreciated, sir. Thanks.

Also, you mentioned that there needs to be an ECCS relay added, but I'm pretty sure the EFI relay serves the same purpose. What are your thoughts on this?

[mtmetzger]

I dig into in tomorrow and try to get you some answers.

[speedeast]

Ok, get back with me when you can. I'm trying to crank it up Sunday morning. Woooh, so excited!

[mtmetzger]

...and it's the ignition coils that you have to add a relay for. You are correct about the EFI relay being used for ECCS. I'll get into the wiring in just a few...

[speedeast]

Cool, cool. Standing by.

Also, I figured out that the Light Green/White wire that connects to the "Dual Pressure Switch" is related to the A/C system. I am concluding that a vast majority of the white connector from both harnesses are useless.

[mtmetzger]

Light Green/White - Dual pressure switch - For A/C - I'm not using it
Blue/Black - Coolant Temp signal to cluster
Brown/White - To Consult Port
Brown/Yellow - To Consult Port
Yellow/White - Oil Pressure Dummy LIght in cluster... In the S13 chassis the same yellow/white wire is located on the chassis harness near the fuse box in a 4 pin grey plug, so I'm using that one, but you could just run it over to the cluster itself.
Red - ??? I don't have this hooked up to anything and it's not even listed on the diagram, but tracing it back, it goes tho the 3rd pin on the "Closed Throttle Position Switch" which is the black plug build into the TPS. Looking at the sensor diagram, it appears that this is the normally open (NO) side of the switch and the ECU only needs to see the NC side.

On the blue connector:

Yellow/White - I don't have a Y/W wire on my blue connector. What position is it in?
Green - Coil for cooling fan #2 relay. I'm not using it.
Blue/Yellow - N&P Relay? Yup - Neutral / Park Relay... Not used.


If that's all you haven't figured out yet, you are doing great... Should start just fine with all those disconnected.

[tmorgan4]

Cool, cool. Standing by.

Also, I figured out that the Light Green/White wire that connects to the "Dual Pressure Switch" is related to the A/C system. I am concluding that a vast majority of the white connector from both harnesses are useless.

What's your email? I have an Excel file that I can't open anymore but I drew out the two blue connectors and single white connector back when I was doing my wiring.

[mtmetzger]

[email protected]

[Dammitboy]

Can I get a copy of that excel file too? [email protected]

[speedeast]

korai9989 at yahoo.

Thanks metz, I have pretty much gotten all of the logistics done. Tomorrow morning I can start splicing and dicing! Thanks for all of the help, and any more that you have is always welcome.

[mtmetzger]

I never got the email, so try again if you get stuck...
The only other pointers I can think of is that your fuel pump and ECCS relay wires are located in the chassis harness right behind the passenger side headlight.

[tmorgan4]

Sent you guys all a few files...hope they help at least a little bit!

[speedeast]

I never got the email, so try again if you get stuck...
The only other pointers I can think of is that your fuel pump and ECCS relay wires are located in the chassis harness right behind the passenger side headlight.

Yep! I've created like a jumper for the the harness. It'll show up in my thread later today; you can check it out.

[b20vtechb]

hey i just dropped my motor into my car for a test fit and it seems like the driverside of the motor is to high. also i have basicly no room on the passenger side. could you measure your mounts ad let me know if they are the same as mine? also did you have any trouble getting the motor level and center?

passenger side.


driver side

[mtmetzger]

Did you have to grind some places on the block so the mounts sit flat? I had to. I'll measure next time I drop him back in but I know I only used one of the slots on each side of the mounts... I thinking the driver side lined up with the lower slot and p side lined up with upper when level.

[b20vtechb]

i just talked to rich at xcessive and that is what he said! so it should work i guess. thanks, oh and i didn't have to do anything to the block to make them fit

[Dammitboy]

I never got the email, so try again if you get stuck...
The only other pointers I can think of is that your fuel pump and ECCS relay wires are located in the chassis harness right behind the passenger side headlight.

Yep! I've created like a jumper for the the harness. It'll show up in my thread later today; you can check it out.

Detailed pics would be great, need to make one of these also.