MR2 vs. 240SX (in corners, not even close)

[CybeRise]

Np man, it's what Im here for, Oh DONT FORGET TO VOTE GUYS!

And unless you want Cali style smog laws in your state vote for bush :P

[deCksy]

i just recently installed a vlsd and spl coilovers... and its a huge difference from stock.... i mean gigantic... it's kinda hard comparing a stock coche to a modded uno. =) check out these cornerssssssssss vrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmm *****crash***** =) thats the life

[MAXIMUS Nismo]

They said they were going around 7-8/10ths

can someone please inform me what this means? I've seen these kind of remarks before in car mags and such and I think it has something to do with steering input. But the sad truth is I do not know.

Please enlighten me.thank you. -LEO

[elbles]

As I understand it, the "10ths" system refers to how close, or past its limits a car is being pushed; i.e. 8/10ths would be 80% of the way to a car's limits, whereas 10/10ths would be right at the car's limits; sadly, I think I was past 10/10ths of either my car's limits, or my own limits, I haven't decided which yet. ;-)

Oh, and Decksy . . . hmm, you're killing me now man, I need to get working. :-)

[hannibal]

I take it as hard the the driver was pushing the car.

Like 6/10 or 7/10 is a 'spirited' drive down a empty highway.And 10/10th is like being on a racetrack with a full roll cage, helmet and Nomex suit in a car you dont have to pay for when you wreck.

[The Mic]

It's funny how some of the most significant things can be overlooked.

but one was a NA model, with nothing but wheels and tires

3 Reasons as to probably why he killed you:1). The MR2 was designed for such things2). He may have been equally or better skilled than you3). He had..um... TIRES

Yes, tires! Never, ever underestimate tires. That is one of the most significant modifications you can make to your car, and can be the most effective if your car is stock.

[SeVa-S13]

We covered all that at the beginning.

[Boyce91s14]

Hey guys, I owned the following cars and have autox them:91 and 92 240sx stock and with mods1985 mr2 NA1991 mr2 NAHere is my 2 cents:The stock 240sx will be greatly outhandled by either mr2 stock, the 1991 is as fast as the DOHC s13, but the dohc s13 would smoke the 85 acceleration, handling my 91 240sx with tein s-tech springs/kyb agx struts and 17x7 rims with 215/45/17 tires handled about equal to my bone stock 1991 mr2 NA, but did not stop no where as fast. It also would out handle the 1985, barely. I loved my 240sx and my mr2s, I just like the mr2s more because of price/performance, so I switched over to mr2oc.com, another trader I guess... 240s are fun, also it is nice when you want to take some friends somewhere or have a nice stereo. (Hard to do in the mr2).

[Sircnay]

Sorry, i just saw this thread.

Anyway, I spent almost $1000 on my S13's suspension before it came close to what my MR2 does stock.

Simply put the MR2 was made better factory. I miss my S13, but I'm a really competitive person and I just couldn't handle having to keep putting money into a car that was going to have to compete against other cars/owners who were faster than me.

The way my S13 sat I'd be running with the street prepared cars at the Auto-X. My Mr2 is like base class :p and it still pwninantes.

Stock vs. Stock the MR2 > S13. It's just a better build quality and overall more solid. But then again, the early 90's was when Nissan engineers were all drunk on the Skyline's and put their C-listers to work on everything that wasn't competiting in the "Golden Cars" of the 90's.

I still love my 240 though and I will own one again. But for now my MR2 is sooo much fun to drive and within the next 2 months, I'll be getting a MR2 spyder.

[KDashy]

MR2 Spyder + Celica GTS engine = rocket car.

One of the guys at a local shop called Inner Circle has a similar setup.

[xyoufailmex]

Im a converted MR2 -> 240 driver actually... my MR2 was a 85 with a 4agze supercharged engine swapped into it..Had a good bit of suspension work.. These cars are great for auto cross, but they are so unforgiving... Ive driven a highly modified MKII MR2 and it has that same "walking on glass" feeling to it... I mean, its a great car, but I enjoy my 240 much more.... plus... Im a college student... any clue how annoying it is to have to take your books out of your car every time you want a passenger? Forget weekend road trips too.

[HashiriyaS14]

MR2 Spyder + Celica GTS engine = rocket car.

One of the guys at a local shop called Inner Circle has a similar setup.

That's what I want.....someday....

[Nismo_Freak]

MR2 Spyder + Celica GTS engine = rocket car.

One of the guys at a local shop called Inner Circle has a similar setup.

Pfft... built it so I can build a 914-6 and annihilate it

[chmercer]

[opinion]mr2s suck. they feel like they are constantly going to crash. they spin like crazy. lift throttle over steer, whoops hello tree. terrible engine bay, small wheelbase, terrible styling, a plethora of rice parts, sky high insurance, the list goes on.[/opinion] and not being an *******, but i highly doubt you were using your car to its full potential, considering you said youve never autocrossed before, and that would lead me to believe youve never been on a track either. also you were on what, like 205 wide m+s tires? and a high mileage sohc motor im guessing? very bad comparison.

i dont mean to sound pompous, but i dont know how else to word it. dont take this post the wrong way

and mr-s is super gay, except for the autobacs one

[chmercer]

oh yea and,

>>>

[Chimera]

ok this is somewhat off topic but, i was driving in the highway bay area(east bound 237) and there is a connection to 101SOUTH with a couple of turns, so this evo was tailing me throughout the whole time while i was on 237 and i speed up on the right lane going to the turns and hes tries to keep up but the distance is the same, he didnt gain nor did he lose me.i drive a bone stock '97 240sx se, do you guys think he wasnt trying or was the driver was scared? i was suprised that he couldnt get closer, (btw this was done during the sunnydays about 4-5 weeks ago)i know you can call bs all you want but i gunned it on the turns and i not sure if he did too if he didnt gain any ground,OH yea and after that 101 had mild traffic so the race was over

[phuphyter]

Nismo_Freak, about how much would the six cylinder cost? I got a 914 sitting in the garage collecting dust. Its not in perfect condition but it desperately needs a new engine among other things. Just want to know so in the future i can bring it back to life. (sorry kinda off topic since it has nothing to do with the mr-2)

[turtl631]

He probably didn't even realize you were trying to race him. I imagine he was changing a CD or thinking about something else. A stock evo VIII is so much more car than a stock s14-tons more power, great handling/steering, near r compounds stock, etc. Unless you are an amazing driver and he really really sucks, he must not have been trying/caring.

[Nismo_Freak]

Nismo_Freak, about how much would the six cylinder cost? I got a 914 sitting in the garage collecting dust. Its not in perfect condition but it desperately needs a new engine among other things. Just want to know so in the future i can bring it back to life. (sorry kinda off topic since it has nothing to do with the mr-2)

914-6's are pretty high dollar ventures.

http://www.pelicanparts.com look for the forums section.

[phuphyter]

Eeek! Ummmm... maybe I'll stick to upgrading my 240.

[Juujai]

cant really compare the two like the others have said.

the 240s msrp price was about 13-16k? vs a limited production sports car like the mr2 with a msrp of up to 28k? i doubt it would be nice to compare the 2 together. they do tend to spin out more than the average japanese car but are lots of fun to drive. ive driven one myself and like the feel of it. it's very unique and the only japanese MR drivetrain car for under 30k. it has pretty timeless styling and nice interior. comes with a pretty nice engine with turbo (optional). it's small, sporty, looks cute, ignoring the snap oversteer its a very nice car. the snap oversteer can be eliminated with the correct tuning but we all like things to come perfect from the factory dont we?

the old mr2 4agze bodied car youre referring to was considered to be gangster during its day and age. lots of people liked it during its time

the sw20s look pretty nice though but itll cost a pretty penny for the car +insurance. check it out: http://mr2.com/ARTICLE/PICTURES/97_GT/page4f.jpg tell me that isnt cute

[xyoufailmex]

the MKI MR2 is STILL used alot... I prefer it over the new SW20... it only weighs 2200.

And no.. you can minimize the snap oversteer, but its always there... when youre driving an MR2, you are one wrong move away from spinning it without a shot at correcting.

[dfw240_EE]

The MR2 is definitely a sharper performer than the 240 overall, but if you were to put me behind the wheel of each I would probably do better with the 240. There is just something about that size of car that I can handle it like a piece of me.

Of course in Autocross, the 240 is a G Stock car, and the MR2 non-turbo is an E Stock. If you have the 91+ Turbo then you can say hello to B stock and competing with the likes of the Nissan 300ZX twin tubo, the 350Z, Mazdaspeed Miata, and the Porsche 944.

[Juujai]

who said you cant get rid of the oversteer? money says you can =) a couple years back in high school i had a friend's dad build one. he was telling me about some of the custom work done to the car. he told me some of the things the toyota did was completely screwed up. som eof the simpler things too like putting 1piston brakes in the rear.

[EnzoRWD]

id like to add my input too, going from an s13 coupe to a mkI mr2. both car had nearly the same suspension upgrades, shocks/springs, wheels, tires. incidentally both had or have the same awful nitto tires. the mkI is immensely more engaging and fun to drive. granted, my mr2 has a 20v motor so its a good bit quicker than my KA s13 was on the straights, but in the corners its a whole different animal. the s13 was amazing, and the limits were pretty high. the mr2 just responds so differently to all the inputs. it's a few hundred pounds lighter and feels it. i just love the way the weight of the car loads up the no-power steering. its beautiful. i would say its more of a preference thing. i could easily see an s13 outcornering any mr2, with certain modifaction and driver familiarity. i like the high-revving 4age and the quick transitions of the aw11....everyone should try one out at some point, like drving an s13-Enzo

[Veriest1]

I take it as hard the the driver was pushing the car.

Like 6/10 or 7/10 is a 'spirited' drive down a empty highway.And 10/10th is like being on a racetrack with a full roll cage, helmet and Nomex suit in a car you dont have to pay for when you wreck.

Some elaberation on this.... 10/10ths is the way race cars are driven in qualifying. Balls to the wall and grazing the barriers on corner exit. 9/10ths is how the race is driven because it's impossible to keep the concentration required to drive at qualifying speeds for 30mins or more. Consistancy wins races not 2 or 3 blistering laps followed by a blistering crash.

I seriously think you should consider going autocrossing with the MR2 guys before you start blaming your car. For example, my cousin drives a NB Mazda Miata and I can leave him behind badly in an E36 chassis BMW Z3. The E36 is prone to unpredictable wheel hop in the rear due to its trailing arm rear suspension and has macpherson struts in the front. The Miata has a multilink rear and double wishbone front suspension. Both of these cars are stock. I've driven the Miata and it's deffinatly the faster car however I'm the faster driver out of the two of us.

[sdtouge]

everyone says for handling to get the stiffist **** possible. not true.

if your suspension is too stiff you will have trouble gripping and get over/under steer unless your on like slicks or something, for gripping you want a lttle suspension travel, or you tires are gonna have more load sooner on them, then youll lose grip.

for griping just get new shocks, springs, either a 1 or 1.5 way lsd or a viscous or even hlsd.aso some sway bars and strut tower bars, just get some really good tires and you shoud be able to keep up.

also, if you dont want over steer or understeer.acceleratebrake in on/off throttle little bit to apexaccelerate out

you shouldnt rea,,y be getting too much oversteer in a stock s13 so somethings going wrong....

[Veriest1]

everyone says for handling to get the stiffist **** possible. not true.

if your suspension is too stiff you will have trouble gripping and get over/under steer unless your on like slicks or something, for gripping you want a lttle suspension travel, or you tires are gonna have more load sooner on them, then youll lose grip.

for griping just get new shocks, springs, either a 1 or 1.5 way lsd or a viscous or even hlsd.aso some sway bars and strut tower bars, just get some really good tires and you shoud be able to keep up.

also, if you dont want over steer or understeer.acceleratebrake in on/off throttle little bit to apexaccelerate out

you shouldnt rea,,y be getting too much oversteer in a stock s13 so somethings going wrong....

Yes, the bumpier the road the softer your spring and shock combination should be to allow the wheel to track over the bumps.

Ideally... accelerate WOT all the way to your braking point.smoothly let off the throttle and apply the brakes (don't just slam them down) Brake deap into the corner. With the car pointed towards the apex let off the brakes and start easing into the throttle (you shouldn't have to let off at this point unless your going to fast)By the time you hit the apex you should be at WOTBy now the car should be sliding at a few degrees at all 4 wheels and will smoothly skid to your track out point with the throttle pinned to the floor... if you did right.

[elbles]

Wow, lots of unexpected replies to this thread a few months later, haha.

First off, it was hard to judge at what speeds I could enter the corners; the MR2 guys were flying through them, and when I tried to do what I thought my car would do, I got a lot of oversteer, hehe; I was pushing it far too hard into the corner, and after reeling it in, it was hard to accelerate out of the corner. It's something I need some practice with, something I might get if I go autocrossing with the MR2 guys this coming weekend.

Thanks for all the advice and tips though, heh. I've seen first-hand the trickiness of MR2s when they slide. :-)

[dfw240_EE]

I've driven the Miata and it's deffinatly the faster car however I'm the faster driver out of the two of us.

I think it was Manfred von Richthofen (the Red Baron) who said something like "It's not the crate but the man in the crate".