McCain opposes a woman's right to choose.

[The Wicker Man]

You should practice what you preach

Anyway, your post is incongruent with the text that you pasted in here. If you feel you have different text that better supports the thread, then okay... otherwise FAIL x3.

its not 'incongruent'. Its a fact that mccain DOES NOT support a womens right to choose. So no, I didn't 'fail x3'

you seriously need to inform yourself a lot better about the political positions of your boy.

[96Qowner]

You seriously need to offer less empty opinion and go search the web for something to back up what you say - and moveon.org ain' it.

Remember the relationship between opinions and a-holes? Yours will smell a lot better if you show more effort.

... jus' a word of advice, jus' sayin'

[wingFeather]

you seriously need to inform yourself a lot better about the political positions of your boy.

I know where my "boy" stands, baby killer. FAIL x4

[The Wicker Man]

You seriously need to offer less empty opinion and go search the web for something to back up what you say - and moveon.org ain' it.

why don't you read the whole thread? if you had, you'd know that moveon.org's statement is TRUE and has been verified by other sources.

I know where my "boy" stands, baby killer. FAIL x4

Oh, so its not that you're ignorant, it's that you do not support a women's right to choose. If this is your stance, why don't you debate it rather than just engage in childish name calling.

[96Qowner]

why don't you read the whole thread? if you had, you'd know that moveon.org's statement is TRUE and has been verified by other sources.0

.........????????

Are you referring to what you DIDN'T post? You mean what Greg posted?

My advice to you remains.

[wingFeather]

it's that you do not support a women's right to choose.

Semantics. I oppose legalized baby killing. Murder isn't a "choice".

What about you? Can I abort you?

You were human when your dad's sperm began to fertilize your mom's egg. If it should be legal to kill you at 6 months of development, then it should be legal to kill you right now.

Do you get my point? I hope so.

debate it rather than just engage in childish name calling.

I did not engage in childish name calling. You are indeed a baby killer. I guess the truth hurts?

But since you wish to resolve our miscomings, I will try on my end, too...

I have honestly tried to have decent conversations with you, but after the first few posts you began acting up. Your behavior here on NICO is suspect. Perhaps if you'd been a member earlier & took an interest in discussing NISSANS & INFINITIS then you might look less like a troll, Telco or RN logged in under a different name, or a recruit brought in by someone who wanted to toy with me. Your membership here is suspicious when compared to your posts. I will attempt to be level-headed with you from now on, if you can return that favor.

[audtatious]

Oh, so its not that you're ignorant, it's that you do not support a women's right to choose. If this is your stance, why don't you debate it rather than just engage in childish name calling.

Dude, why don't you go to your pool, take a dip and chill off a tad?

[HashiriyaS14]

I know where my "boy" stands, baby killer. FAIL x4

This is bordering on a personal attack, cut it out.

Wicker is just as guilty. Both of you guys need to chill a little.

I know I've made attacks in the past, but I'm helping to mod this section now, so you'll be seeing a newer, calmer me. In return, I ask that everyone else refrain from getting too personal, it's just politics. You can be emotional about your positions, we all are, but no more "ZOMG U FAIL" shxt. It's immature.

[wingFeather]

I ask that everyone else refrain from getting too personal, it's just politics.

I have no problem with this policy.

I only ask that it be EQUALLY enforced. For a few days there, it appeared that I was the only one being reprimanded.

[Encryptshun]

Well, I'm pro-choice yet I'm opposed to Roe v. Wade. The law is too broad and doesn't leave room for paternal rights.

If the law says I gotta pay for the kid if she wants to have it, I wanna be able to keep & raise the kid if she doesn't.

[Marenta]

McCain's position is nil. The Supreme Court has made the decision, and overturning the RvW decision is something that NOBODY would consider doing. Even if you're totally against it, it's unwise for any politician to seek to abolish the Court's decision.

Personally, I don't like RvW, I think that you have to have certain instances where abortion could be legal. Because, if you're stupid enough to sleep around and get knocked up, then carry the child to full term and offer it up for adoption. As for rape, well, that's iffy. Because, the man was the aggressor, more than likely, and just because the father did something rediculous doesn't mean the progeny has to pay for the sins of his dad. And, if the mother is in danger because of the child, then sure. But, I don't believe in just going out and killing a child.

And, I don't think a woman who was obviously sane enough to do the deed should get a "Get out of Life, free!" card, either. Own up to your actions and take responsibility for your decisions.

What gets me, is how Liberals can be so much for human rights to terrorists that they take to GITMO; but you're all for taking away a human life because the mother/father are dumbasses? Sounds hypocritical to me.

[HashiriyaS14]

I only ask that it be EQUALLY enforced.

I assure you it will be.

Anyway, in regards to abortion and everyone labeling it as "baby killing", this is part of the problem in defining the issue.

It isn't that the Left (or most of it) is willingly endorsing "baby killing" so much as they are arguing that life does not begin at conception. There are MANY perspectives on when human life begins, and what your personal views are generally determine where you weigh in on the abortion issue.

Personally, I believe that life begins at sentience, i.e. when the fetus becomes self-aware as a creature, conscious, and is not longer just a bundle of cells. This probably occurs sometime towards the beginning of the 2nd Trimester. I believe that abortion before this point amounts to little other than removing any other growth in the body, as the bundle of cells does not yet think, feel pain, or realize it's own existence.

That said, almost everyone is different.

You just can't take for granted the idea that your opponents in this discussion agree that life begins at conception, because they probably disagree.

Few people wholeheartedly endorse "partial birth" abortions with zero restrictions. I am definitely not one of them and neither is the average member of the Democratic party. That said, there are people out there that take this position, largely in an attempt to prevent "slippery slope" arguments. They adopt the most extreme position in attempt to avoid their position being eroded by argument and concession. (similar to what the NRA and many others do in their lobbying efforts)

[wingFeather]

If the law says I gotta pay for the kid if she wants to have it, I wanna be able to keep & raise the kid if she doesn't.

VERY good point!!!

Also, IMHO, since it's a man's sperm that is equally responsible for conception, a man should have say over life or murder of his baby, too. I don't know why people don't see this, or consider a woman's egg more legally important than a man's sperm

[wingFeather]

, I believe that life begins at sentience, i.e. when the fetus becomes self-aware as a creature, conscious, and is not longer just a bundle of cells.

But those are such vague concepts IMHO. Some people lose their mental capacities & effectively become vegetables (functioning or not). It should then be okay to knife some senile, absent-minded grandmother

Also, children are barely self-aware when new to the world. I know I don't remember being alive until what... roughly age 5? So a slick politician could successfully argue that I wasn't really conscious until that age. It should be then okay to rape and torture two year old girls, since they are just a bundle of biological mass...

I really don't think birth can be argued, and am sad that in our "advanced" times that we continue to do so.

[telcoman]

Why, because a number of those on this site who you accuse of being right-wing neocon redneck back-woods idiots actually do have what are considered left-leaning viewpoints on some issues?

Matt

I was just giving Greg a

Although some of my comments may have offended a few here often they ended up as a poor attempt to inject a little humor or a

Have I posted items I later regretted? Absolutely!

I enjoy this forum and although we can disagree I try very hard not to get personal or take personal offense of comments directed at me.

I am certainly willing to admit that even at my age I don't know everything and have learned things here from others such as yourself & Greg.I also have a slight disadvantage from many others in that I did not grow up with a computer. It took me 6 months just to figure out how to use photobucket. Some have commented that I still have not grown up but what would you expect of a huge Howard Stern fan that listens every day for hours. Farts and fart jokes in 5th grade were funny and I think some of them are still funny.

I posted my age and location and don't hide behind bushes.Personally I think everyone should post their age and location as well as year and type of vehicle. Having that info can influence the type and tenor of the response to a post.

I can't speak for others but my response to a post may very well differ to a twenty something vs a 50 or 60 yr old or even to a female member.

If I messed or screwed something up you can always email me

ok, I'm done!

Cheers

Telcoman

[HashiriyaS14]

VERY good point!!!

Also, IMHO, since it's a man's sperm that is equally responsible for conception, a man should have say over life or murder of his baby, too. I don't know why people don't see this, or consider a woman's egg more legally important than a man's sperm

This is a very legitimate point.

I do NOT understand the fact that, if a woman wants to abort but the man wants to take full custody and raise the child that he can't do that. It totally mystifies me.

Does anyone here DISAGREE with this? I think most will agree, but I'd love to hear the dissenting opinion.

[szh]

But those are such vague concepts IMHO. Some people lose their mental capacities & effectively become vegetables (functioning or not). It should then be okay to knife some senile, absent-minded grandmother

You know, I have always said that if I am in a coma - essentially dead - for some long period (pick a rational time), and I cannot live without machines or intravenous feeding, then I want the plug to be pulled on me.

Z

[Marenta]

I can't speak for others but my response to a post may very well differ to a twenty something vs a 50 or 60 yr old or even to a female member.

Well, considering that I'm the only female that regularly posts in the politics forum, it's not that much of a comparison.

But, on the other hand, it's rare that men want a part in the raising of their child. But, I applaude the man who takes the responsibilty on of raising a child. It's a very brave thing to do, especially in today's world.

[mtcookson]

Personally, I believe that life begins at sentience, i.e. when the fetus becomes self-aware as a creature, conscious, and is not longer just a bundle of cells. This probably occurs sometime towards the beginning of the 2nd Trimester. I believe that abortion before this point amounts to little other than removing any other growth in the body, as the bundle of cells does not yet think, feel pain, or realize it's own existence.

That's one big issue I have with the whole "life" argument when it comes to abortion. Your example for instance... cells are either alive or dead. If they are dead, there's no growth, nothing... they're dead. Living cells, regardless of thinking or feeling, are alive as they are separating, growing, etc... there's simply life when there are living cells.

life–noun1. the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally.2. the sum of the distinguishing phenomena of organisms, esp. metabolism, growth, reproduction, and adaptation to environment.

I would even consider sperm to be alive. They do have metabolism and even respond to stimuli and can survive between 48 and 72 hours before they're actually dead, if I remember correctly, which is longer than even some bugs last.

Anyway... in my opinion, when it comes to the question of when "life begins" I believe it never really has a starting place to begin with since the cells are already alive (i.e. sperm are already living) so the be the whole when life begins thing is definitely not the right question to be asking. That's just me though.

[AZhitman]

Well, I'm pro-choice yet I'm opposed to Roe v. Wade. The law is too broad and doesn't leave room for paternal rights.

If the law says I gotta pay for the kid if she wants to have it, I wanna be able to keep & raise the kid if she doesn't.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I think you and I discussed this before.

People get way too freaked out when you start talking about RvW as if you're some misogynist Neanderthal who wants June Cleaver's barefoot and pregnant a$$ in the kitchen.

Quite the contrary.

I don't think most 16 year old girls are capable of making an intelligent decision about anything much more weighty than which Jonas Brother is cuter or whether Sally is, indeed, dressed like a slut today.

[telcoman]

VERY good point!!!

Also, IMHO, since it's a man's sperm that is equally responsible for conception, a man should have say over life or murder of his baby, too. I don't know why people don't see this, or consider a woman's egg more legally important than a man's sperm

Perhaps it because its the womans body and whether she is married or not if she and her doctor decide it would be best to abort the male has little say. He can express his wishes but should attempt to understand why the decision has been made and accept it.

If not married and the male is willing to accept full financial responsibility, all medical expenses for mother and child and any lost wages for the female he can always attempt a court injunction to force the birth as long as it is medically ok?

And pay her court costs as well.

Telcoman

[telcoman]

You know, I have always said that if I am in a coma - essentially dead - for some long period (pick a rational time), and I cannot live without machines or intravenous feeding, then I want the plug to be pulled on me.

Z

[wingFeather]

I posted my age and location and don't hide behind bushes.

I don't hide my identity because I am ashamed of my views. I hide it for my personal safety.

At one time, I had my full legal name, age and location online. All it took was ONE mentally unstable man (if he can be called that) to show me that was a BIG mistake.

Also, Telco I do not have issue with your age. I do have issue, though, with 87 octance in your engine and your mud slinging at good folk

Rock on...

[telcoman]

Well, considering that I'm the only female that regularly posts in the politics forum, it's not that much of a comparison.

But, on the other hand, it's rare that men want a part in the raising of their child. But, I applaude the man who takes the responsibilty on of raising a child. It's a very brave thing to do, especially in today's world.

There are a few others but they don't post often. One was banned for .....I can't remember

[Encryptshun]

But, on the other hand, it's rare that men want a part in the raising of their child.

Woah there. I don't know where you have been getting your statistics, but I think you are missing some caveats or some demographic data bracketing that statement.

I do NOT agree AT ALL. As, I bet, would EVERY SINGLE FATHER ON THIS FORUM.

[AZhitman]

I was just giving Greg a

Farts and fart jokes in 5th grade were funny and I think some of them are still funny.

I posted my age and location and don't hide behind bushes.Personally I think everyone should post their age and location as well as year and type of vehicle. Having that info can influence the type and tenor of the response to a post.

No offense taken, Howie - I caught the .

Two things that will PERPETUALLY remain funny: Farts and fat people.

I concur 100% (and respect) your position regarding "hiding" one's true identity. I have little respect for some of our trolls who claim to have never been a member before... They forget that I'm damn good at what I do and I could find Hoffa if offered enough $.

My whole life is an open book here, and sometimes I forget to be cautious with my words, given my travels and exposure.

[wingFeather]

Perhaps it because its the womans body

But she agreed to participate in sexual intercourse. If she didn't want a child, she should not have done this.

When I participate in intercourse, I am fully aware that the woman may get pregnant. This is a risk I take (even with contraceptive).

Non-consentual sex is a different story, as he/she didn't consent to take the risk... but it's still murder of a human. Sad but true.

[Encryptshun]

^ So if she aborts the fetus, then the rape charge gets upped to Murder 1. Simple.

Scumbag out of the gene pool, left-wingers get to sound off about whether they care more for the life of an unborn child or of a f*cking rapist.

/troll

[telcoman]

IAlso, Telco I do not have issue with your age. I do have issue, though, with 87 octance in your engine and your mud slinging at good folk

Rock on...

The 87 octane has been discussed at length in the G35 forum and you can find my extensive comments on its use there.

There are strong opinions on that along with strong opinions on issues posted here.

If I did sling some mud just don't take it personal.

BTW if you are a rock fan, AC/DC is getting their own channel on Sirius XM starting next week (CH 29)

[telcoman]

No offense taken, Howie - I caught the .

Two things that will PERPETUALLY remain funny: Farts and fat people.

I concur 100% (and respect) your position regarding "hiding" one's true identity. I have little respect for some of our trolls who claim to have never been a member before... They forget that I'm damn good at what I do and I could find Hoffa if offered enough $.

My whole life is an open book here, and sometimes I forget to be cautious with my words, given my travels and exposure.

I could find Hoffa if offered enough $.

He's here in New Jersey

He gets to watch all the Giant games