LS VTEC DC2 Vs. S13 HB w/SR20DET

[redtop91]

Hello Nico crew. I'm new to this forum and yes I used the search button for this issue but I didn't find anything (I Think ). I have a friend that has an individual throttle bodied, LS VTEC, pretty much JDM DC2 integra minus the RHD. Needless to say he's a huge ricer (like most Honda fans ) and he thinks his car will pretty much demolish my redtop, Mine's rechipped ECU, hatchback. I've done my research on the LS VTEC and the Honda integra and it has around 200 HP on 100 octane around 195 on pump. He wants to race and well, I'm a huge nissan fan so I make fun of honda to his face but, I'm kinda afraid to lose. My SR20 makes around 200ish on pump but it doesnt make that power until the turbo spools up. Because he has an N/A ratio he'll probably be in 2nd before the T25 spools up. I guess what I'm getting at is N/A vs Turbo at the same horsepower levels, which wins?

(PS I know looking for an unbiased answer in an SR forum is like looking for a needle in a haystack.)

(PS #2 We both have the same skill with manual transmission: Horrifyingly terrible )

[aznxkrnxboi]

lol welcome to nico. we dont usually post things like that. I say sr will get it ^^

[574-240sx]

Welcome I would say it would be a throw up. I would have to say if you can get him on the launch you will be fine but he will be coming back hard top end. If its from a roll it will be close but I think he will edge you out.

[da40]

welcome to the club ..as far as ur race well same hp #s he'll probabaly take u at the top unless u turn up the boost ..at luch u should have him but like ohh boy said he will catcha at the top TIME TO TURN UP THE BOOST

[SR20Essex]

Power to weight ratio is the only thing you ever need to know (gearing helps too but that’s another story). Take the weight of his car and divide it by his HP, then take the weight of your car and divide it by the HP... Whoever has the smaller number wins because that is the number of lbs that each hp has to move.

My current setup is 10lbs per HP which is 2600lbs/260whp. Which means I have 1hp available at the wheels to move 10lbs of the gross vehicle weight (minus my fat a$$)

so if your car weighs the same... 2600lbs and you are putting out 200whp or 200 crank hp (assuming 18% parasitic loss = .18x200 - 200 = 164whp) that would be a calculation of 2600/164 = 15.85lbs per Hp

As it turns out the weight of a 2dr Acura Integra is 2529 so 2529/164 = 15.4lbs per Hp

That small of a margin would be left up to driver error (anything under half a pound).

When you are talking about turbo vs. N/A, it is possible to beat a N/A car with the same power with a turbo car, but how its tuned is very important. The only way to know is you have access to his dyno and you put it next to your dyno. Just look at how much space is below the HP/TQ curve, the winner of that, is the car with the most space between the curve an Zero from Zero RPM's to redline. There is a formula for this but I won't bore you with it.

[redtop91]

Ok yeah his power to rate ratio is definitely lower however his tires are of definitely lower quality so that should level out the playing field. As regards the suggestions of turning up the boost, how much boost (relatively) can I turn up the t25 to and have the rechipped ECU, stock MAF, and stock SR20 injectors compensate for and keep my AFRs just right? I know its impossible to know exactly but maybe a ball park guess? Any knowledge would help because........ I CAN'T LOSE TO A HONDA!!!! LOL. Thanks for the input.

[mkory]

C'mon... just race him already.

If you lose, tell him you missed a shift, turn up the boost, and this time put money on it.

[otterman]

Between 14-15 (depending on who you ask) psi is when you want to stop pushing boost on the T25. After that it's just hot air. A lot of people do 12-13psi on with stock injectors and MAF. Just make sure you got a high press fuel pump.

[redtop91]

Only mods to the car is the Swap and a 255 Whalbro Intank Fuel Pump and ACT street/strip Clutch/ JDM ECU chipped with Mines program. So, this car is my daily and it has to get me from home to work to school everyday. That being said how does 10ish PSI sound? That seems to be enough to put that Honda back in its place but still remain reliable daily. Before I do that though, check my other post because I've been noticing some weird things lately with the SR and I wanna know what the diagnosis for those issues are before I turn up the boost. (P.S. not to get off topic but what is the first part I should buy for a bone stock sr20 with a budget of around $200?)

[otterman]

double post sorry

[Fenvy]

Hello Nico crew. I'm new to this forum and yes I used the search button for this issue but I didn't find anything (I Think ). I have a friend that has an individual throttle bodied, LS VTEC, pretty much JDM DC2 integra minus the RHD. Needless to say he's a huge ricer (like most Honda fans ) and he thinks his car will pretty much demolish my redtop, Mine's rechipped ECU, hatchback. I've done my research on the LS VTEC and the Honda integra and it has around 200 HP on 100 octane around 195 on pump. He wants to race and well, I'm a huge nissan fan so I make fun of honda to his face but, I'm kinda afraid to lose. My SR20 makes around 200ish on pump but it doesnt make that power until the turbo spools up. Because he has an N/A ratio he'll probably be in 2nd before the T25 spools up. I guess what I'm getting at is N/A vs Turbo at the same horsepower levels, which wins?

(PS I know looking for an unbiased answer in an SR forum is like looking for a needle in a haystack.)

(PS #2 We both have the same skill with manual transmission: Horrifyingly terrible )

wow, I wonder what is rice. Is there evident that 1) he's rice 2) most of the honda fan are rice?

sounds to me that you're the ricer here, thinking that just because you have a turbo, you got something to prove A well done lsvtec can take on stock/mild sr20det easily. My money is on the lsvtec

get off on the theory race already

[redtop91]

Well Mr. Loveless read my post more carefully you'll see that I said HE himself is a ricer. And its an undeniable fact that a lot (not all) of Honda owners are ricers. All stereotypes are based off of some fact. However, nowhere did I say that simply because he has an LS VTEC/ Acura/ Honda that makes him a ricer. This is also evident in the simple fact that I'm worried about racing him. If I would have thought his engine/ chassis was simply a ricemobile, I never would have asked what my odds are of winning. I asked because I see what it is capable of and see that it is equal to, or greater than the capabilities of my S13. Truth be told, from a hard facts standpoint his car is a marvel of tuning. I thoroughly respect the engine, chassis, and the capabilities of Honda N/A tuning and I never indicted otherwise.

[ILikeMy240sx]

from the looks of your sig... you seem to be running a stock SMIC and such.

Get a boost controller and turn up the boost to 10 psi and race.

[spider_slayer]

i personally wouldn't up the boost without a fmic, but hey it should be fine as long as you stay around 10psi.

seriously though, who ever has been driving longer will win.

[nissan_blood]

I got a s14 with red top i rape my home boys LS vtec i only boost at 10 psi to beat him and hes on a 50 shot but i also have a 25 shot. ill get my home boy over here tomarow and take pictures of his motor and stuff so you can compair to your friends if you would like. if hes pretty much stock you will stomp him. if he wins you really did miss a gear...................... .

[wildacexxx]

if u have a mines ecu then u will win my friend. i doubt your friend will be making anything more than 200. with a mines ecu u should be well above that. before u race though make sure to take out everything u can (ie. spare and supplies in trunk, back seats, detachable head unit face). also make sure to run it on a little bit less than quarter tank of gas. win one for us

[slipstream_pnoy]

honeslty dude its not the car (sumtimes) but its mostly the drive and how skilled he is ....

[nissan_blood]

A well done lsvtec can take on stock/mild sr20det easily. My money is on the lsvtec

ls vtec is a crapy and cheap swap dude. leaks oil and the compresion is all sort of fudged up seen many STOCK b16 and gsr motors spank them. dont talk about something you dont know about please it kind of anoys me to see people post to be a natrual asperated ******* . and he should you back

[Kenrik]

FR > FF off the line,

The stock turbo @ 8psi sucks in 4th and 5th, where as Vtec is all top end.

Hmmm...

I think you need to up the boost and be a better driver then he is.

[Fenvy]

A well done lsvtec can take on stock/mild sr20det easily. My money is on the lsvtec

ls vtec is a crapy and cheap swap dude. leaks oil and the compresion is all sort of fudged up seen many STOCK b16 and gsr motors spank them. dont talk about something you dont know about please it kind of anoys me to see people post to be a natrual asperated ******* . and he should you back

right, I am sure all the dyno, all the hondatech folks are liars. I am sure my experience is wrong too. It's basically modded NA vs stock FI. Learn not to be so brand biased, noob

oh yeah, ALL lsvtec suck, nevermind frankstein too, uh huh

[SR20Essex]

Take the race to pinks! I would love to see a Japanese drag shootout for once; I'm tired of the redneck mobiles getting all the airplay.

Admittedly I have not watched the show that much this season, but last season it was all dukes of hazard type cars with the exception of one highly modded Turbo Civic that claimed to have 600hp, against a big block something or other. The Honda got worked, and those guys had a lame rice excuse for every loosing run. . http://www.speedtv.com/pinks/

[redtop91]

LOL there was a tuner battle between a FC RX-7 and some other car. I think I saw that Pinks with the CRX. It was the Full-Race pinks SOHC CRX. It wasn't meant to be much of a battle. . Yeah Pinks needs some diversity. "redneck" cars are rather powerful though and all most americans care about is straight line speed, v6, or crate motors that have 400+ Hp. They'd probably laugh at our 2 cars LOL. Although I would say that I have 2 disagree that the LS VTEC is a "crappy" engine . Its easy to forget that it is not forced induc. and w/o the turbo an SR20 would just be a KA with better internals and would get spanked. The LS VTEC is a very very good street racing motor (minus the super high compression ratio) that redlines safely almost 2000+ RPMs higher than the SR20. 1/8 SR20>LS, 1/4 SR20=LS, highway racing LS>SR20 (in the stock form) no . Oh well, race is tonight and I guess we'll find out. Oh yea I've decided not to up the boost. I want it to prove driver and engine ability, not turbo ability. I know, some1 should me for saying that LOL.

[mkory]

What happened?

[wildacexxx]

i bet he lost :-x

[redtop91]

I lost.......... but only two freeway races which is what I expected. He'd seriously be an idiot if he didnt win those. But the 5 light to light and quarter mile? All 240 baby. However, I do think I am now forced to buy an integra and tune it N/A. Such a blast to drive . Although it is FF and that's definitely NOT cool. That car gains like a SOB wildfire with gasoline poured on it with a Pinto repo lot in the middle of it on Three Mile Island. if you got that you either have too much time on your hands or are older than dirt JK. Imma buy one of those after my R33. SOB they're fast... But the SR20 handled it superbly at 7 PSI. All driver baby... all driver. I'll see if the vids we took came out Non crappy and I'll post em.

[wildacexxx]

yea go buy a teg. i'll trade u my stock ecu for your mines when u sell the car

[redtop91]

Who said anything about sellin the 240? I'm sellin the daily driver: 2002 Expedition. Guzzles gas like an SOB. You can have the ECU for that AND the V8. Maybe you can fit it in . I will to you if you can. Betcha can't

[wildacexxx]

trade me your mine's ecu plus 50 bux

[redtop91]

LMAO . I would, but

[Tulsa_S-13]

Ey Ryon, sorry you lost. I finally got my car back together and running! Care to race a KA? We'd have to go to Tulsa Raceway though....