Level ten information, and group buy discount info!
I need help...after reading AGM's posts on the transmission issues and maybe Q45tech or AGM knows the answer.
I would like to know if it is possible to switch the 51 x 79 transmission (94-96) with a 51 x 65 transmission (90-93) and switch the TCU's as well to gain back on the 1st @ 2nd gearing that is a bit faster. In otherwords, can I put the earlier transmission with TCU in my car versus my current transmission & TCU without any issues.
I only ask this because if I am going to have the transmission redone by levelten anyway, why not run it with the higher 1 & 2 gears and I can pick up the earlier TCU.
Thanks again for your help.
Also, I have a source that says they can get the old Q transmission's cheap and I was thinking about buying and sending a core to levelten but they don't know how to tell if it is a X79 or X 65 model. How can you tell by looking at a bare transmission which one it is.....thanks
I would like to know if it is possible to switch the 51 x 79 transmission (94-96) with a 51 x 65 transmission (90-93) and switch the TCU's as well to gain back on the 1st @ 2nd gearing that is a bit faster. In otherwords, can I put the earlier transmission with TCU in my car versus my current transmission & TCU without any issues.
I only ask this because if I am going to have the transmission redone by levelten anyway, why not run it with the higher 1 & 2 gears and I can pick up the earlier TCU.
Thanks again for your help.
Also, I have a source that says they can get the old Q transmission's cheap and I was thinking about buying and sending a core to levelten but they don't know how to tell if it is a X79 or X 65 model. How can you tell by looking at a bare transmission which one it is.....thanks
I'm interested in this. Especially switching out to the '90 transmission for my '94 MAGCQUE as I may have a core available and then could "save" my just rebuilt '94. A concern is that I am introducing so many new variables. If this can just be slapped in as a replacenent , fine, but if Tony will have to do refinement work I'd rather stick with the '94 core.
I need to go back a reread earlier threads. For my track application I am never in first, so will gain little there -- although with the new rear differential who knows? Is the gain on the '90 only between 1st and 2nd? At what speed? RPM?
I need to go back a reread earlier threads. For my track application I am never in first, so will gain little there -- although with the new rear differential who knows? Is the gain on the '90 only between 1st and 2nd? At what speed? RPM?
I need a big white board and begin to track all the possible mods -- or maybe use project management to see the critical paths. L10, converter, rear end. Am I missing anything. You guys also have the SC and all that goes with it.
With this buy are we getting the recommend/best converter?
Where is this shop?
With this buy are we getting the recommend/best converter?
Where is this shop?
rsiwicki,
Further to your email, I advise as follows.
The first thing I did was install the JWT Trimode TCU to see how it would operate with my X79 Transmission. It works well, so I am confident at this stage that it will operate my X65 being installed.ie I tried the TCU out first.
If you are going to the trouble of a level 10 rebuild and Torque Conveter upgrade, why bother with an OEM TCU and not get the benefits of the higher shift points.
I hope to able to confirm soon that you can put a X65 in a 1994 (with a JWT) Trimode and the whole thing works well.
The way to identify an X65 is by it having one half a dozen slots in the bellhousing for ventalation as opposed to the X79 having just one large one.
Hope this helps.
Regards
AGM
Further to your email, I advise as follows.
The first thing I did was install the JWT Trimode TCU to see how it would operate with my X79 Transmission. It works well, so I am confident at this stage that it will operate my X65 being installed.ie I tried the TCU out first.
If you are going to the trouble of a level 10 rebuild and Torque Conveter upgrade, why bother with an OEM TCU and not get the benefits of the higher shift points.
I hope to able to confirm soon that you can put a X65 in a 1994 (with a JWT) Trimode and the whole thing works well.
The way to identify an X65 is by it having one half a dozen slots in the bellhousing for ventalation as opposed to the X79 having just one large one.
Hope this helps.
Regards
AGM
thanks very much for your input and advice....I do plan on going with the JWT TCU if everything works great, but I was thinking of running a JWT TCU against a 93 OEM TCU versus a 94 OEM TCU. I might be getting confused here with the JWT TCU & OEM TCU's.
Did the JWT TCU come inaddition to your 1994 OEM TCU or does it totally replace your 1994 OEM TCU.
Are you saying that I can have my 1995 OEM TCU remapped to run just like the 90-93 OEM TCU's and have the JWT program imbedded within it? Now I am really getting myself lost here....
My first plan was to get a 90-93 TCU and stick it in to see what happens. Then if all is good, I would send it to JWT to get it remapped into a JWT TCU with the trimode and also have a 90-93 transmission installed. The only thing the mechanic at the dealer told me is that the shift points would probably be different unless I used a 90-93 TCU that knows I am running different gears.
Thanks again for your help and I anxiously await your results with the new transmission setup.
Did the JWT TCU come inaddition to your 1994 OEM TCU or does it totally replace your 1994 OEM TCU.
Are you saying that I can have my 1995 OEM TCU remapped to run just like the 90-93 OEM TCU's and have the JWT program imbedded within it? Now I am really getting myself lost here....
My first plan was to get a 90-93 TCU and stick it in to see what happens. Then if all is good, I would send it to JWT to get it remapped into a JWT TCU with the trimode and also have a 90-93 transmission installed. The only thing the mechanic at the dealer told me is that the shift points would probably be different unless I used a 90-93 TCU that knows I am running different gears.
Thanks again for your help and I anxiously await your results with the new transmission setup.
rsiwicki,
JWT make the trimode from scratch, so you keep your OEM TCU in the shed. It is a total replacement for the OEM TCU. Just go for the JWT Timode and don't bother mucking around with the OEM TCU's.
The trimode only has one map, which suits 1990-1996.
I will send you my email correspondence between me and JWT which should explain a lot.
If you know how to, it would be good to have it posted on this thread.
Regards
AGM
JWT make the trimode from scratch, so you keep your OEM TCU in the shed. It is a total replacement for the OEM TCU. Just go for the JWT Timode and don't bother mucking around with the OEM TCU's.
The trimode only has one map, which suits 1990-1996.
I will send you my email correspondence between me and JWT which should explain a lot.
If you know how to, it would be good to have it posted on this thread.
Regards
AGM
Ahhh thanks a lot AGM for shinning the light so that I can see the path to take now.....That explains a lot of stuff now and saves a big step of trying to figure out if a 90-93 OEM TCU will work in my 95 car. I had no idea that the JWT TCU's were total replacements and that it does not matter which year of transmission's you have. I will contact them about getting a JWT TCU anyway and then if your setup works with the X 65, then I will be doing the same here very shortly.
__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45Only the trimode is a total replacement made from scratch!
Don't forget to get your ECU upgraded so that the TCU runing a first generation transmission does not bump into the rev limiter to the second generation ECU.
ie get a JWT Trimode (1990-1996) and get your 1994-96 upgraded by JWT.
The TCU uses the driveshaft speed to determine the shift point. ie the driveshaft spins up faster/earlier with the lower gears and shifts the transmission faster/earlier accordingly, based on the same program.
JWT do not distinguish between 1990-1996 for the Trimode.
Regards
AGM
Don't forget to get your ECU upgraded so that the TCU runing a first generation transmission does not bump into the rev limiter to the second generation ECU.
ie get a JWT Trimode (1990-1996) and get your 1994-96 upgraded by JWT.
The TCU uses the driveshaft speed to determine the shift point. ie the driveshaft spins up faster/earlier with the lower gears and shifts the transmission faster/earlier accordingly, based on the same program.
JWT do not distinguish between 1990-1996 for the Trimode.
Regards
AGM
Finally got the Transmission and Torque Converter back in. The only problem is that the stall speed is so high I can't comment on the transmission because the strip set up does not suit this car. The high stall overides everything about this car. I have to decide whether to send the Torque Converter back to Level 10 to have tighter pump installed in the Torque Converter to bring the stall speed down, or build my own Torque Converter here. I am VERY frustrated at the moment. Level 10 have offered to modify it for me, but there is more delays ect.
Regards
AGM
Regards
AGM
Don't know if this helps, but below is part of an earlier post from our NICO member fxjackso...I personally emailed him and he thought that the stall might be around 2200-2300. Hope this helps. I found a 1990 transmission that I think will work in a salvage yard. I am waiting to hear back from the other party to see what condition it is in.
"Since I lived on the East coast at the time I took my car in while visiting realtives. It was ready in a week. Later, a problem developed with the trans freewheeling in third under deceleration. They sent a flatbed to Maryland to pick it up, fixed the problem, and delivered it back, all within about a week.
I think my converter stall is about 2400. Its a little "different" when accelerating slowly, especially up hills, and the uninitiated think its slipping. However, when you floor it and it downshifts, no matter what gear you are in, the engine is onto the torque peak instantly. Drivers of 540's, Mustang GT's, etc., not to mention the noisy little Civics, can't figure it out!"
"Since I lived on the East coast at the time I took my car in while visiting realtives. It was ready in a week. Later, a problem developed with the trans freewheeling in third under deceleration. They sent a flatbed to Maryland to pick it up, fixed the problem, and delivered it back, all within about a week.
I think my converter stall is about 2400. Its a little "different" when accelerating slowly, especially up hills, and the uninitiated think its slipping. However, when you floor it and it downshifts, no matter what gear you are in, the engine is onto the torque peak instantly. Drivers of 540's, Mustang GT's, etc., not to mention the noisy little Civics, can't figure it out!"
Try driving a supercharged quad cam V8 with close to 500Hp on the street with a 3,200 stall - without drawing attention to yourself.
Don't get me wrong, it is heaps of fun to drive and the launch is like nothing I have ever experainced before, but it wasn't spose to be a drag car.
I have spoken to level 10 and they have willing agreed to sort it out for me, so I can drive it on the street.
I am smoking a lot of expensive rubber at the moment.
I reckon that the OEM 2,100 to 2,300 will suffice. I don't want to go over 2,400.
Has anyone else driven a car with a 3,000+ stall on it.
Everything else seems fine. When the torque converter locks up, the power being put to the ground is amazingly controlled. No snapping sideways or hoping, just a slight squat in the rear end and two very straight black lines on the road.
Sometimes I wish I wasn't the one going first though.
Hope other members are able to benefit from my trial and errors.
Regards
AGM
Don't get me wrong, it is heaps of fun to drive and the launch is like nothing I have ever experainced before, but it wasn't spose to be a drag car.
I have spoken to level 10 and they have willing agreed to sort it out for me, so I can drive it on the street.
I am smoking a lot of expensive rubber at the moment.
I reckon that the OEM 2,100 to 2,300 will suffice. I don't want to go over 2,400.
Has anyone else driven a car with a 3,000+ stall on it.
Everything else seems fine. When the torque converter locks up, the power being put to the ground is amazingly controlled. No snapping sideways or hoping, just a slight squat in the rear end and two very straight black lines on the road.
Sometimes I wish I wasn't the one going first though.
Hope other members are able to benefit from my trial and errors.
Regards
AGM
Did Sam spec that high of a converter? AGM....How does it feel to be launched into outer space? I bet it must feel like a rocket ship when everything locks and takes off. Sorry your are the first, but I will be the second. I am taking the same path as you (but with less power) and dropping a 51 x 65 in my car versus 51 x79. Thanks agian for the instructions on how to visually identify the difference between a 65 versus 79 model.
HeavyDuty,
Sam specked the stall speed at 2,600 to 2,800. He advise that the car must be making a lot more torque than we all expected and it is not locking until 3,200. The only way I can drive it at the moment is flat out or nothing. I will be specing it as low a possible. Apparently the lowest you can go on a billet converter is 2,400. I would still like to go a touch lower.
rsiwicki,
Glad my info on how to identify the different years was helpful.
dkill,
I am running genuine NASCAR 4:11:1 Ford 9" gears (31 spline) with a trutrac helical gear LSD all wrapped in a harrop billet low profile 9" housing, the same as the one in the VT commodore on the following link.
The trutrac locks up both wheels almost instantly and puts the power to the ground evenly.
The only thing that I am not sure about now is wether or not I need to customise/fit heavier duty axles. I think this is the weakest part of my whole drivetrain.
http://www.harrop.com.au/produ....html
I am also running a genuine Nissan Motorsports diff cooler.
Regards
AGM
Sam specked the stall speed at 2,600 to 2,800. He advise that the car must be making a lot more torque than we all expected and it is not locking until 3,200. The only way I can drive it at the moment is flat out or nothing. I will be specing it as low a possible. Apparently the lowest you can go on a billet converter is 2,400. I would still like to go a touch lower.
rsiwicki,
Glad my info on how to identify the different years was helpful.
dkill,
I am running genuine NASCAR 4:11:1 Ford 9" gears (31 spline) with a trutrac helical gear LSD all wrapped in a harrop billet low profile 9" housing, the same as the one in the VT commodore on the following link.
The trutrac locks up both wheels almost instantly and puts the power to the ground evenly.
The only thing that I am not sure about now is wether or not I need to customise/fit heavier duty axles. I think this is the weakest part of my whole drivetrain.
http://www.harrop.com.au/produ....html
I am also running a genuine Nissan Motorsports diff cooler.
Regards
AGM
maxnix,
It is a complete kit, comprising pump, heat exchanger, hoses ect to suit a 300ZX. It is a genuine nissan part. The pump is very noisy! I would look at something else if noise is of concern.
Anyway, for part# and pricing see
(type in the word 'cooler' in the search facility on this website!
http://www.courtesyparts.com
Regards
AGM
It is a complete kit, comprising pump, heat exchanger, hoses ect to suit a 300ZX. It is a genuine nissan part. The pump is very noisy! I would look at something else if noise is of concern.
Anyway, for part# and pricing see
(type in the word 'cooler' in the search facility on this website!
http://www.courtesyparts.com
Regards
AGM
-
Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
TC Stall speed is a function of applied torque, the oem TC stalls at 2100-2300 depending on the engine torque.If you raise the engine torque [at that rpm] the oem TC will raise its own stall speed.
Nothing other than a postive displacement supercharger will raise the 2,200 rpm torque [no engine mods]..........well nitrous would but unsafe to start it at that low an rpm.
You always want a 2,000-2,200 rpm stall for a street car that is driven in traffic.
As to identifying early trannies, there were so many mods in 90-92: drain plug, bell housing air slits, aux cooler finned lines, etc.....about the only way is what year car it came from. It is highly unlikely that a dealer would have installed the wrong year range.
Nothing other than a postive displacement supercharger will raise the 2,200 rpm torque [no engine mods]..........well nitrous would but unsafe to start it at that low an rpm.
You always want a 2,000-2,200 rpm stall for a street car that is driven in traffic.
As to identifying early trannies, there were so many mods in 90-92: drain plug, bell housing air slits, aux cooler finned lines, etc.....about the only way is what year car it came from. It is highly unlikely that a dealer would have installed the wrong year range.
-
maxnix
- Posts: 22627
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:11 pm
- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
maxnix wrote:Thank you AGM. Maybe it will be available as a NISMO part in the US. I guess I will see what drives the pump when I see the part online (or will I?).
Update: The only rear differential kit I could find was at http://www.courtesyparts.com/M...Code=
which is for the 1984-1989 300ZX. Unfortunately no picture is included.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
Discover the power of the button!
For those looking at the Level 10 Transmission, (especially the billet Torque Converter), please note that the lowest stall speed for their Torque Converter is 2,400 which is above the OEM 2,100 to 2,300.
I am sending my Torque Conveter back to drop from 3,200 to at least 2,400. I would actually prefer the OEM stall speed back.My ideal stall speed would actually be 2,000.
The problem I have is that I am developing so much Torque the flash point of a 9" Torque Converter is way too high.
After all this, I may have to go for a larger Torque Converter to get the stall speed back down.
The reason for this post is to make everyone aware of the stall speed limitations of the level 10 Torque Converter if you want a daily driver 'street sleeper'. Interestingly, the Precision Industries Torque Converter starts at a minimum stall speed of 2,400 as well.
Regards
AGM
I am sending my Torque Conveter back to drop from 3,200 to at least 2,400. I would actually prefer the OEM stall speed back.My ideal stall speed would actually be 2,000.
The problem I have is that I am developing so much Torque the flash point of a 9" Torque Converter is way too high.
After all this, I may have to go for a larger Torque Converter to get the stall speed back down.
The reason for this post is to make everyone aware of the stall speed limitations of the level 10 Torque Converter if you want a daily driver 'street sleeper'. Interestingly, the Precision Industries Torque Converter starts at a minimum stall speed of 2,400 as well.
Regards
AGM
AZ94Q,
My reason for a level 10 transmission is slightly different to most.I only went down this track so that I had a transmission that would stay together. My well maintained OEM transmission struggled at anything over 400HP. In my case I would have to say the Level 10 Transmission is more efficent, ONLY because it is enabling me to put an amount power to the ground, that I could not with the OEM Transmission.
The most useful info would be based on 1/4 mile runs on a stock standard Q45 were NOTHING else is done other than the transmission.
rsiwicki is going to be the best adviser here.
Sorry, I can't be more definitive.
Regards
AGM
My reason for a level 10 transmission is slightly different to most.I only went down this track so that I had a transmission that would stay together. My well maintained OEM transmission struggled at anything over 400HP. In my case I would have to say the Level 10 Transmission is more efficent, ONLY because it is enabling me to put an amount power to the ground, that I could not with the OEM Transmission.
The most useful info would be based on 1/4 mile runs on a stock standard Q45 were NOTHING else is done other than the transmission.
rsiwicki is going to be the best adviser here.
Sorry, I can't be more definitive.
Regards
AGM
AGM....I went with the 2,400 stall and LevelTen transmission also. I should be getting my new transmission next week and then hopefully installed on the weekend. I know another NICO member...fxjackso said that his stall was around 2,400 and it was good for him for the most part. I think that I will be just fine with the 2,400 stall as I am probably not going to supercharge it and therefore I will not be producing near as much power as you are at 2,400. From an article posted above....it states that with more power you need a lower stall. Given your supercharged beast, I would also think that even 2,400 may be on the high side for you. Either way...I will know in about 2 weeks what a 2,400 stall feels like in my car and whether or not it is usable on an NA engine for a daily driver. I hope your new stall works better for you.
with regards to LevelTen telling me that their trannys are 11% more efficient in transfering power....I think that this 11% claims relates to efficiency loss and and not total power loss. In other words if you have 100hp at flywheel and then with normal stock stuff you exprience 20% loss then you end up with 80 rwhp. Now with LevelTen transmission you gain 11% of the efficieny loss which would be 11% of 20hp or 2.2hp so you would end up with 82.2 rwhp. This is how I understand what Sam told me from LevelTen. So with a 278hp...stock would be 222.4 rwhp and with LevelTen it will be 228.5 for a net gain of 5.6rwhp. This is what I think they were implying when they said that their transmission were 11% more efficient with regards to power loss. I apologize for any confusion of this 11% issue and we shall see in about 3 weeks or so what is really the benefit...at least based on my dyno numbers. Who knows, maybe I just spent $4,000 for nothing and the transmission is no better than my current rebuilt transmission of 15K ago and the 92 may not even work in my 95 car as AGM is the only one to do this and his is not 100% running yet, but at least I tried it and yes it will hurt financially but I can laugh about it, eat beans and rice for the next decade, sell it for to another NICO member with a 92 car for a good deal, and I along with others who read this can learn from my trial and error.
They said three things that this new transmission will beneift me.1. The HP increase as mentioned above2. Higher stall....I will be closer to the optimal power curve points improving off the line starts as long as I don't spin my wheels3. quicker shift times
#2 above can be tested a little more easily...right now if I let my car roll say at 5 mph and then punch it...the tires never spin and my rpms go right to 2,300 everytime and then the car accelerates from there. Now with the levelten doing the same as above my rpms should be at 2,400 which will mean that I will apply more power to the wheels than I was before at the same point in time. As long as I don't break traction this higher stall is benefiting me...otherwise I just sit there creating some nice black marks while the stock Q takes off. This also applies from a dead stop however I must minimize wheel spin (my stock Q breaks traction easily) and I am hoping to do this with some 275/40/18 fattys on the back after our very good and informative tire debate as I would have really screwed up the tire and wheel combo that I was going for and I appreciate everyones comments on that thread. Going from a stock stall of 2,100-2,300 (stock stall varies as per Q45tech) to a 2,400 is not a huge jump so I don't expect to see any real daily driveability concerns.
BTW...I just put 4 new Falkens on today and they feel good...I can't believe that I actually was stupid enough to drive for a week with my steel belts showing. Got lucky that time, but part of the reason what that I was suppose to get my new 18" wheels in over a week ago and that did not happen so I ended up driving on them a little farther than I would have liked. I will probably be selling my old tires and BBS wheels in about a month so somebody maybe from here will be getting them, but I need to find a solution to my rims as all the rims I want are either on back order or not made anymore. Also I just found out from speaking with Chris at Underground Motorsports over on the wheel thread forum that Tirerack controls just about everything as far as wheels go. He said that around 90% or more of all wheel dealers get their wheels one way or another from Tirerack at about a 10% discount and that tirerack sells a small selection of their wheels imported to the public. So now I know why I can't find any chrome ASA AR1's anywhere, becuase Tirerack has a monopoly on the wheel importing market.
They said three things that this new transmission will beneift me.1. The HP increase as mentioned above2. Higher stall....I will be closer to the optimal power curve points improving off the line starts as long as I don't spin my wheels3. quicker shift times
#2 above can be tested a little more easily...right now if I let my car roll say at 5 mph and then punch it...the tires never spin and my rpms go right to 2,300 everytime and then the car accelerates from there. Now with the levelten doing the same as above my rpms should be at 2,400 which will mean that I will apply more power to the wheels than I was before at the same point in time. As long as I don't break traction this higher stall is benefiting me...otherwise I just sit there creating some nice black marks while the stock Q takes off. This also applies from a dead stop however I must minimize wheel spin (my stock Q breaks traction easily) and I am hoping to do this with some 275/40/18 fattys on the back after our very good and informative tire debate as I would have really screwed up the tire and wheel combo that I was going for and I appreciate everyones comments on that thread. Going from a stock stall of 2,100-2,300 (stock stall varies as per Q45tech) to a 2,400 is not a huge jump so I don't expect to see any real daily driveability concerns.
BTW...I just put 4 new Falkens on today and they feel good...I can't believe that I actually was stupid enough to drive for a week with my steel belts showing. Got lucky that time, but part of the reason what that I was suppose to get my new 18" wheels in over a week ago and that did not happen so I ended up driving on them a little farther than I would have liked. I will probably be selling my old tires and BBS wheels in about a month so somebody maybe from here will be getting them, but I need to find a solution to my rims as all the rims I want are either on back order or not made anymore. Also I just found out from speaking with Chris at Underground Motorsports over on the wheel thread forum that Tirerack controls just about everything as far as wheels go. He said that around 90% or more of all wheel dealers get their wheels one way or another from Tirerack at about a 10% discount and that tirerack sells a small selection of their wheels imported to the public. So now I know why I can't find any chrome ASA AR1's anywhere, becuase Tirerack has a monopoly on the wheel importing market.