RSI,
I see... I understood it as 11% saved from the 22%.. I guess that makes it more reasonable
I don't really care what anyone says, I think it's a good mod.. There are countless people who had it, that i have talk to, that love it.
If you go to their website, they all kind of writeups from performance mags, and they CLEARLY say they improve the 1/4 mile time, shift faster, etc etc...
Ignore the trolls, it's a solid mod... There are haters of every mod for the Q.. Trust someone who doesnt even have the mod, or a company who builds racing trannys for their existence, I think I'll take the latter.
It should really help out, when you brake torque, at the drag strip, as well as rolling stops...
The bottom line is this:
4.08Level ten/torque convertor=Completely different Q down load. The 4.08 gives you something like 12% or 15% or something more torque at the same rpm.. combine that with the level ten, and you are golden
If we are discussing NA q45s here, then this rule applies.
It's all about optimizing the engine, and the way the engine transfers power to the wheels.
All of the above mods, help to do that.. They are 100% beneficial.. Not to mention you reduce the luggin on your transmission with the 4.08
Level ten information, and group buy discount info!
I just got my car back during lunch today with the new LevelTen transmission. All works great and so does the 92 transmission into my 95 car. There does not appear to be any immediate problems with switching transmission years, but only time will tell.
The car feels much quicker, but it is hard to tell just how much quicker until I get 500 miles on the new transmission before I can hit WOT. It should be quicker just from the gearing in the 92 vs. 95 transmission that I had. The quickness also should come from a lighter torque converter which I should notice more after 1st gear.
The shifts are extremely quick compared to both my factory & rebuilt transmission. The rpms drop so quick right after the shift starts...there is no "easing" down the rpms anymore. The shifts are firm and crisp, but not annoying. It almost feels like a quick manual shift if I do say so. This was the first thing I noticed when I pulled out of the shop how quickly the transmission shifts. Also it gives the car a more sporty feel as when you give it a little gas from cruising at 50mph…the downshift is nice, quick, and smooth. The car actually goes from 4th (drive) downshifting to 2nd faster under acceleration from 50mph versus leaving the car in 3rd and having it downshift into 2nd with the old transmission.
The torque converter feels good as well. I got a 2,400 stall and I can’t tell the difference between stock and the new one. There does not seem to be any excess slipping or anything like that going to a slightly higher stall (OEM 2,100-2,300 vs. New 2,400).
Well this is all I can say for now on the transmission until I get it fully broken in which will be about 3 weeks as I am going away on business most of next week. I know that this will definitely improve my 0-60 & ¼ ET’s just from the shifts alone….and you can bet that the I will take it to the track as soon as possible after the break in period to test the ET’s.
Also I can’t tell if new torque converter corrected my rpm decrease problem under hard acceleration that I was experiencing until I get it broken in. .
The car feels much quicker, but it is hard to tell just how much quicker until I get 500 miles on the new transmission before I can hit WOT. It should be quicker just from the gearing in the 92 vs. 95 transmission that I had. The quickness also should come from a lighter torque converter which I should notice more after 1st gear.
The shifts are extremely quick compared to both my factory & rebuilt transmission. The rpms drop so quick right after the shift starts...there is no "easing" down the rpms anymore. The shifts are firm and crisp, but not annoying. It almost feels like a quick manual shift if I do say so. This was the first thing I noticed when I pulled out of the shop how quickly the transmission shifts. Also it gives the car a more sporty feel as when you give it a little gas from cruising at 50mph…the downshift is nice, quick, and smooth. The car actually goes from 4th (drive) downshifting to 2nd faster under acceleration from 50mph versus leaving the car in 3rd and having it downshift into 2nd with the old transmission.
The torque converter feels good as well. I got a 2,400 stall and I can’t tell the difference between stock and the new one. There does not seem to be any excess slipping or anything like that going to a slightly higher stall (OEM 2,100-2,300 vs. New 2,400).
Well this is all I can say for now on the transmission until I get it fully broken in which will be about 3 weeks as I am going away on business most of next week. I know that this will definitely improve my 0-60 & ¼ ET’s just from the shifts alone….and you can bet that the I will take it to the track as soon as possible after the break in period to test the ET’s.
Also I can’t tell if new torque converter corrected my rpm decrease problem under hard acceleration that I was experiencing until I get it broken in. .
costs...Well I would rather not think about costs since my old transmission was good, but it all seems like a good long term investment and only time will tell. Here is the breakdown.
shipping=$300redline syn fluid=$125trans mount & rear engine seal=$17592 core=$300labor=$300torque converter & transmission=$3,300sold old transmission for $500....got lucky and as the transmission shop had another Q in the shop from a used car sales lot that needed a transmission and hooked me up with the salesman and we made a deal on Sunday for $500 as they had bought the car at an auction and did not know that the transmission was shot.
Total costs were $4,000 and yes expensive, but I think that a remanufacured dealer installed transmission & torque converter runs around $3,300 so for an extra $700 I got what I feel is a good deal. For an extra $700 I got a lighter weight torque converter, firm & very quick shifts, and a few other goodies to increase durabiltiy (new valve body, kevlar plated clutches, etc.).
shipping=$300redline syn fluid=$125trans mount & rear engine seal=$17592 core=$300labor=$300torque converter & transmission=$3,300sold old transmission for $500....got lucky and as the transmission shop had another Q in the shop from a used car sales lot that needed a transmission and hooked me up with the salesman and we made a deal on Sunday for $500 as they had bought the car at an auction and did not know that the transmission was shot.
Total costs were $4,000 and yes expensive, but I think that a remanufacured dealer installed transmission & torque converter runs around $3,300 so for an extra $700 I got what I feel is a good deal. For an extra $700 I got a lighter weight torque converter, firm & very quick shifts, and a few other goodies to increase durabiltiy (new valve body, kevlar plated clutches, etc.).
Damn you RSI!!!
Now I know I have to get the level ten...
I've been sharing your pain waiting for you to get this bad boy installed.. I am using your experience as the catalyst to get this..
I guess it's official.. I need the level ten..
Can't wait for it to get broken in, so you can experience the pleasure
Now I know I have to get the level ten...
I've been sharing your pain waiting for you to get this bad boy installed.. I am using your experience as the catalyst to get this..
I guess it's official.. I need the level ten..
Can't wait for it to get broken in, so you can experience the pleasure
I'm all about optimization. I learned early on, cars never come optimized. Even the way over engineered toyota supra, was this way..
Just look at all the Q45 can benefit from
The ECU TuningThe TCU TuningThe DriveshaftThe TrannyThe IntakeThe ExhaustBig brakesSuspension componentsMore to come
E V E R Y T H I N G can be optimized...
Even if an exhaust only gives you 5 rwhp.. that's 5 you didn't have..
The haters have been silenced. Big braking has been confirmed by multiple nico members to DECREASe stopping distances, rather it's one stop or one hundred.
The CF driveshaft has been confirmed
Now we have level ten confirmation
Modifications work, period.
To all the haters: A. your wrong B. your boring (to quote greg)
Thanks for the update RSI.. I hope with our continual Q45 perormance achievments, we can advance the idea of fast/modified Q45s and FINALLY silence all the FALSE negativity surrondings modifications.
Just look at all the Q45 can benefit from
The ECU TuningThe TCU TuningThe DriveshaftThe TrannyThe IntakeThe ExhaustBig brakesSuspension componentsMore to come
E V E R Y T H I N G can be optimized...
Even if an exhaust only gives you 5 rwhp.. that's 5 you didn't have..
The haters have been silenced. Big braking has been confirmed by multiple nico members to DECREASe stopping distances, rather it's one stop or one hundred.
The CF driveshaft has been confirmed
Now we have level ten confirmation
Modifications work, period.
To all the haters: A. your wrong B. your boring (to quote greg)
Thanks for the update RSI.. I hope with our continual Q45 perormance achievments, we can advance the idea of fast/modified Q45s and FINALLY silence all the FALSE negativity surrondings modifications.
Hey guys....well I finally got done with work tonight and just to let you all know....the transmission is very tight, sporty, and unforgiving.
What I mean by "unforgiving" is that many people including myself do this.....as you are backing up you put the car into drive while the car is still slightly rolling backwards...well get your attention as the transmission jump into drive the very second you select drive so you will need to come to a complete stop first before switching gears. I also played a little with the manual gear selecting between 1st, 2nd, 3rd....and all selections are extremely quick. I am really amazed at how quick the car will jump into 2nd while cruising at 40mph.
This will all take some time getting use to the new sensitivity, but will be fun while I adapt and this is what I bought the transmission for....to reduce my 1/4 & 0-60 times. The shifts under normal driving are great...they are firm, crisp, and sporty but not neck jerking or annoying.
I can't wait till this thing is broken in and I can just punch it from a dead stop.
What I mean by "unforgiving" is that many people including myself do this.....as you are backing up you put the car into drive while the car is still slightly rolling backwards...well get your attention as the transmission jump into drive the very second you select drive so you will need to come to a complete stop first before switching gears. I also played a little with the manual gear selecting between 1st, 2nd, 3rd....and all selections are extremely quick. I am really amazed at how quick the car will jump into 2nd while cruising at 40mph.
This will all take some time getting use to the new sensitivity, but will be fun while I adapt and this is what I bought the transmission for....to reduce my 1/4 & 0-60 times. The shifts under normal driving are great...they are firm, crisp, and sporty but not neck jerking or annoying.
I can't wait till this thing is broken in and I can just punch it from a dead stop.
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Chally
- Posts: 445
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 12:17 am
- Car: '94 Infiniti Q45
2002 Nissan Patrol 4.8L
2013 Citroen C4 (economy)
Just did mine up myself. Bought the Clutches, gasket kit & Band from Level 10 & all fitted great.
I put in Castrol Synthetic oil & it's green! Thought I was using Brake fluid to start with, but it goes beautiful.
My box wore out the Band, as they can't be adjusted with regular tools while in the vehicle. This in turn scored the drum. I gave the box number to the local transmission parts suppliers & he told me I had a Patrol. Apparently, the Patrol also shares the same box, but with different gearing. He sold me a 2nd hand drum for $100.
The supplier also told me that about 50% of the torque converters wear out the Clutch & bearing in them, so if you are deciding to do a box, don't skimp by leaving the old convertor in.
It cost me $1400(Aussie dollars) all up as I did the labour myself. This includes the Torque Convertor, Gaskets & Clutches, Synthetic Oil & the Filter just below the battery.
These boxes are SO heavy, it took 2 of us to move it about. I never want to do one again, unless someone else takes it out of the vehicle.
I put in Castrol Synthetic oil & it's green! Thought I was using Brake fluid to start with, but it goes beautiful.
My box wore out the Band, as they can't be adjusted with regular tools while in the vehicle. This in turn scored the drum. I gave the box number to the local transmission parts suppliers & he told me I had a Patrol. Apparently, the Patrol also shares the same box, but with different gearing. He sold me a 2nd hand drum for $100.
The supplier also told me that about 50% of the torque converters wear out the Clutch & bearing in them, so if you are deciding to do a box, don't skimp by leaving the old convertor in.
It cost me $1400(Aussie dollars) all up as I did the labour myself. This includes the Torque Convertor, Gaskets & Clutches, Synthetic Oil & the Filter just below the battery.
These boxes are SO heavy, it took 2 of us to move it about. I never want to do one again, unless someone else takes it out of the vehicle.
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sijoko
- Posts: 961
- Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 6:54 am
- Car: Black 1994 Infiniti Q45 Turbo, Pearl White 2014 Maxima Sport
- Contact:
Let me add my .02 cents in to this discussion.
I have had the Level Ten transmission upgrade and a ProTorque Converter (they rebuild the factory unit w/ higher stall) for about 3 years now.
The trans shifts fast. There is no delay, especially under full throttle. It took me a few days to get used to the urgency of the shifts. But once I was used to it, I really liked it.
Just the LevelTen transmission would reduce your 1/4 times noticeably, due to the quicker shifts.
The high stall converter is a mixed blessing. With it, the car leaps from traffic lights. Very few cars can match the takeoff. It is like a slingshot. This is great, especially when you are in congested areas where you need accelaration right now.
But the down side to a higher stall converter is loss of efficiency, especially at higher rpms. When the car is cruising, the lock-up clutch comes into play, enabling a direct coupling between engine and trans. This is great for fuel economy.
When you floor it, the lock-up clutch disengages as it is only designed to handle the horsepower needed for cruising speeds. This is where the efficiency of the converter comes into the picture.
With the high stall converter, there is more slippage and precious horsepower is converted to heat. This is a drawback to getting a high stall converter.
But there might be a way around this.
Precision Industries makes Billet Torque Converters for the Q45 and the 300zx TT (they both have the same trans). They also make converters for the Supra.
They offer a 3 disc lock-up converter for the Supra. A 3 disc lock-up clutch can handle more power than the OEM single disc. The lock-up is usually controlled by a switch on the shift knob. With a setup like this, you can manually lock the converter at highway speeds so that you can get all your power to the ground.
Precision Industries doesn't offer the 3 disc for the Q45. But if enough people bugged them, they might make one for us.
An ideal setup would the LevelTen trans with a 3 disc high stall converter with manual control for the converter lock-up.
-sijoko
I have had the Level Ten transmission upgrade and a ProTorque Converter (they rebuild the factory unit w/ higher stall) for about 3 years now.
The trans shifts fast. There is no delay, especially under full throttle. It took me a few days to get used to the urgency of the shifts. But once I was used to it, I really liked it.
Just the LevelTen transmission would reduce your 1/4 times noticeably, due to the quicker shifts.
The high stall converter is a mixed blessing. With it, the car leaps from traffic lights. Very few cars can match the takeoff. It is like a slingshot. This is great, especially when you are in congested areas where you need accelaration right now.
But the down side to a higher stall converter is loss of efficiency, especially at higher rpms. When the car is cruising, the lock-up clutch comes into play, enabling a direct coupling between engine and trans. This is great for fuel economy.
When you floor it, the lock-up clutch disengages as it is only designed to handle the horsepower needed for cruising speeds. This is where the efficiency of the converter comes into the picture.
With the high stall converter, there is more slippage and precious horsepower is converted to heat. This is a drawback to getting a high stall converter.
But there might be a way around this.
Precision Industries makes Billet Torque Converters for the Q45 and the 300zx TT (they both have the same trans). They also make converters for the Supra.
They offer a 3 disc lock-up converter for the Supra. A 3 disc lock-up clutch can handle more power than the OEM single disc. The lock-up is usually controlled by a switch on the shift knob. With a setup like this, you can manually lock the converter at highway speeds so that you can get all your power to the ground.
Precision Industries doesn't offer the 3 disc for the Q45. But if enough people bugged them, they might make one for us.
An ideal setup would the LevelTen trans with a 3 disc high stall converter with manual control for the converter lock-up.
-sijoko
Thanks sijoko for confirming my first impressions about the transmission as I just could not believe the difference. I can't wait for it to get broken in and do a few WOT runs.
I still just can't believe my first reaction as I pulled out of the shop...."WTF?" I said as I thought something was almost wrong as it shifted so quick....I actually hit the brakes instantlly thinking that I had just broke the transmission somehow...but then realized this is why I paid $4,000 for performance like this.
I am definetly interested in the TC that you are talking about. I am a real weekend warrior on this stuff...especially TC's. I think that you know by now that I am a real serious person when it comes to mods so you can count on me and I think that we definetly have a few others that might be ready. If the costs are around $1,000 or less then...."where do I sign up?" Please keep me posted or email me as I am definetly ready for a better TC.....
I still just can't believe my first reaction as I pulled out of the shop...."WTF?" I said as I thought something was almost wrong as it shifted so quick....I actually hit the brakes instantlly thinking that I had just broke the transmission somehow...but then realized this is why I paid $4,000 for performance like this.
I am definetly interested in the TC that you are talking about. I am a real weekend warrior on this stuff...especially TC's. I think that you know by now that I am a real serious person when it comes to mods so you can count on me and I think that we definetly have a few others that might be ready. If the costs are around $1,000 or less then...."where do I sign up?"
Please keep me posted or email me as I am definetly ready for a better TC.....okay....well all is good so far with my transmission and I just ordered a new Motorola V600 video camera phone so once I get it I will video the tach so that you all can see how quickly the shifts are.
Also...my funny rpm drop under acceleration did not go away. The dealer had thought that it was my TC...obvisiously not. I will post a video clip of that also so you all can see what is going on. It now does it much easier than before and I now only need the pedal about half way down to get it to do the funny rpm drop versus before I had it under almost full WOT. Maybe somebody will know what the problem is after seeing the video clip.
I should have all the clips up sometime next week.
I also now can peel out at just half throttle from a dead stop, before I was only getting about 1 or 2 tire rotations and this was only at WOT. I can't wait till its broken in so I can hammer it to the floor and see what happens from a dead stop. Only 350 miles to go until I got 600 miles on it. I have been driving my a$$ off to get it broken in.
Also...my funny rpm drop under acceleration did not go away. The dealer had thought that it was my TC...obvisiously not. I will post a video clip of that also so you all can see what is going on. It now does it much easier than before and I now only need the pedal about half way down to get it to do the funny rpm drop versus before I had it under almost full WOT. Maybe somebody will know what the problem is after seeing the video clip.
I should have all the clips up sometime next week.
I also now can peel out at just half throttle from a dead stop, before I was only getting about 1 or 2 tire rotations and this was only at WOT. I can't wait till its broken in so I can hammer it to the floor and see what happens from a dead stop. Only 350 miles to go until I got 600 miles on it. I have been driving my a$$ off to get it broken in.
AGM,
Great!! Can't wait to hear your comments on it. Based on the countless positive reviews and most recently rsiwicki's comments and detailed reports, I am going to make this one of my first mods..
It's expensive and hard to justify if you have a functional OEM transmission, but the performance gains/feel etc.. seem to justify the price..
Next it's time for a CF driveshaft.. Is this something you may be interested in Ash?
We are looking to get a group buy going for it..
Great!! Can't wait to hear your comments on it. Based on the countless positive reviews and most recently rsiwicki's comments and detailed reports, I am going to make this one of my first mods..
It's expensive and hard to justify if you have a functional OEM transmission, but the performance gains/feel etc.. seem to justify the price..
Next it's time for a CF driveshaft.. Is this something you may be interested in Ash?
We are looking to get a group buy going for it..
-
Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Hopefully the tcu can keep up with the faster shift........specifically the time when it commands the ecu to reduce ignition advance.
Check with Consult as to how many milliseconds the advance is down just prior to, during, and after shift. Hopefully it will also be reduced from 0.8-1.0 to 0.4-0.5 secs.
The newer 5 speed uses a 2 stage TC lockup clutch vs, 90-01 single stage.......still can't handle much more power slip.
Please Please install a BIG multistage ATF cooler and a transmission fluid temp monitor to watch the out of TC temperature with a higher stall TC............it could be 50F hotter than oem transmission.
Check with Consult as to how many milliseconds the advance is down just prior to, during, and after shift. Hopefully it will also be reduced from 0.8-1.0 to 0.4-0.5 secs.
The newer 5 speed uses a 2 stage TC lockup clutch vs, 90-01 single stage.......still can't handle much more power slip.
Please Please install a BIG multistage ATF cooler and a transmission fluid temp monitor to watch the out of TC temperature with a higher stall TC............it could be 50F hotter than oem transmission.
Got my Level 10 Torque Converter installed today. Now I have not driven the car myself yet, so the following comments are based on the opinion of my installer. He advises that the stall speed is Ok, but he is concerned about the Torque Converter lock up.
Apparently, the lock up is to high, so the car feels like it is slipping when you first nail it while cruizing. He is of the opinion that the billet torque converter is to small to handle the power I am putting through it and reckons that I still need to go for a larger Torque Converter in terms of diameter.
Before I test drive the car, it would be helpful for me to have a greater understanding of what is the oem lockup and what is considered to be the ideal lock up for the converter.
What influences the lock up. Is it the Torque Converter size/design, or is it the TCU function, or is it both.
How does the Torque Converter actually 'lock up' at the right point.
My installer advises that the 'face' of the torque converter is to small and lock up is delayed while the oil circulates in the torque converter.
Sorry for my ignorance in this area!
I am looking to educate myself via NICO, so I can have some input in the process of sorting this out, rather than relying soley on my installer and feedback from level 10.
At least I have sorted out the stall speed. Hopefully I can sort out the lock up.
rsiwick, are you still happy with your torque converter, in terms of both the stall speed and lock up?
Regards
AGM
Apparently, the lock up is to high, so the car feels like it is slipping when you first nail it while cruizing. He is of the opinion that the billet torque converter is to small to handle the power I am putting through it and reckons that I still need to go for a larger Torque Converter in terms of diameter.
Before I test drive the car, it would be helpful for me to have a greater understanding of what is the oem lockup and what is considered to be the ideal lock up for the converter.
What influences the lock up. Is it the Torque Converter size/design, or is it the TCU function, or is it both.
How does the Torque Converter actually 'lock up' at the right point.
My installer advises that the 'face' of the torque converter is to small and lock up is delayed while the oil circulates in the torque converter.
Sorry for my ignorance in this area!
I am looking to educate myself via NICO, so I can have some input in the process of sorting this out, rather than relying soley on my installer and feedback from level 10.
At least I have sorted out the stall speed. Hopefully I can sort out the lock up.
rsiwick, are you still happy with your torque converter, in terms of both the stall speed and lock up?
Regards
AGM
AGM,
Before the torque converter "locks up" there is slippage. This slippage is normal and is a side affect of having an auto transmission. The lock up is caused by oil pressure inside of the torque converter and not by the TCU. When the TC locks up it creates a 1:1 ratio between the engine and transmission (you are effectively losing zero torque). This in turn lowers the engine's RPMs and increases fuel efficiency and power. Note you cannot have lockup while the car is idling as the wheels aren't moving so the engine would stall. This is why there is a stall speed which locks the TC. Below the stall speed you are losing efficiency as the engine speed to transmission speed ratio is below 1:1. Too high of a stall speed doesn't make the car fun to drive around town, while too low of a stall speed and you ET will take a hit. Your optimum stall speed is based off of car weight, torque curve and what you'll be using your car for.
Hope I've helped.
Corey
Before the torque converter "locks up" there is slippage. This slippage is normal and is a side affect of having an auto transmission. The lock up is caused by oil pressure inside of the torque converter and not by the TCU. When the TC locks up it creates a 1:1 ratio between the engine and transmission (you are effectively losing zero torque). This in turn lowers the engine's RPMs and increases fuel efficiency and power. Note you cannot have lockup while the car is idling as the wheels aren't moving so the engine would stall. This is why there is a stall speed which locks the TC. Below the stall speed you are losing efficiency as the engine speed to transmission speed ratio is below 1:1. Too high of a stall speed doesn't make the car fun to drive around town, while too low of a stall speed and you ET will take a hit. Your optimum stall speed is based off of car weight, torque curve and what you'll be using your car for.
Hope I've helped.
Corey
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Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Understand that the TC lock up clutch has very very limited power handling capability...........just enough to handle a steady speed or very slight acceleration on flat ground.Before it starts to slip the TCU unlocks the clutch then when you are back to steady speed relocks the clutch.
Nervous footed drivers who constantly change speeds really give the clutch a work out. The newer 5 speed has a dual lockup clutch and can handle a little more power [torque power up from 290 to 333 lb/ft] but only about 30 HP vs 25 for a few seconds.
This is to widen the dynamic range of small accelerations to lessen the unneeded down shifting and improve highway mileage a tiny bit.
ATF brand [quality vs price and type [stick/slip ratio] is critical in making the lock unlock relock feel smooth and almost transparent........this is where you notice degradation first as the additives start to breakdown from heat.
Failure to change ATF often stresses lockup clutch and allows it to wear out faster because it expects a certain friction level from ATF.........the AT temperature sensor helps adjust line pressure on clutch but this changes with wear and throws the oem calibration out.........just as the fluid changes............adaptive learning helps some but with age it still is not correct with used ATF.
The problem with ATF is the heat spec stops at 212F, yet localized internal temps can be above this.........so we don't know the viscosity curve above this temperature.........WHY Mobil 1 Syn ATF seems to help the feel both in summer and winter.
Measure the temp from the TC to the heat exchanger, you'll see what I mean..........it can go to 250 even 300F.......this is what the TC clutch sees...........sure a small external cooler helps but not as much as one expects if you drive vigorously.
More than 5% of friction losses are in TC vs 3-3.5% in the differential.
Nervous footed drivers who constantly change speeds really give the clutch a work out. The newer 5 speed has a dual lockup clutch and can handle a little more power [torque power up from 290 to 333 lb/ft] but only about 30 HP vs 25 for a few seconds.
This is to widen the dynamic range of small accelerations to lessen the unneeded down shifting and improve highway mileage a tiny bit.
ATF brand [quality vs price and type [stick/slip ratio] is critical in making the lock unlock relock feel smooth and almost transparent........this is where you notice degradation first as the additives start to breakdown from heat.
Failure to change ATF often stresses lockup clutch and allows it to wear out faster because it expects a certain friction level from ATF.........the AT temperature sensor helps adjust line pressure on clutch but this changes with wear and throws the oem calibration out.........just as the fluid changes............adaptive learning helps some but with age it still is not correct with used ATF.
The problem with ATF is the heat spec stops at 212F, yet localized internal temps can be above this.........so we don't know the viscosity curve above this temperature.........WHY Mobil 1 Syn ATF seems to help the feel both in summer and winter.
Measure the temp from the TC to the heat exchanger, you'll see what I mean..........it can go to 250 even 300F.......this is what the TC clutch sees...........sure a small external cooler helps but not as much as one expects if you drive vigorously.
More than 5% of friction losses are in TC vs 3-3.5% in the differential.
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sijoko
- Posts: 961
- Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2002 6:54 am
- Car: Black 1994 Infiniti Q45 Turbo, Pearl White 2014 Maxima Sport
- Contact:
AGM,
Are you referring to the efficiency of the TC? From what you write, it seems that TC feels like it is slipping at high rpms.
This could be because of the engine producing too much torque for the converter that you have. I mentioned before in another post of how a high stall converter will lose efficiency at higher rpms.
As Q45tech stated, the lock-up function of the TC will only work at light throttle. When you punch it on the highway, the lock-up disengages and you basically have a hydraulic coupling. The more efficient the converter, the less slippage you will have at higher rpms.
Check out this link for a good article on high stall converters:
http://www.competitionplus.com....html
This is part two of the article:
http://www.competitionplus.com....html
Regards,
-sijoko
Are you referring to the efficiency of the TC? From what you write, it seems that TC feels like it is slipping at high rpms.
This could be because of the engine producing too much torque for the converter that you have. I mentioned before in another post of how a high stall converter will lose efficiency at higher rpms.
As Q45tech stated, the lock-up function of the TC will only work at light throttle. When you punch it on the highway, the lock-up disengages and you basically have a hydraulic coupling. The more efficient the converter, the less slippage you will have at higher rpms.
Check out this link for a good article on high stall converters:
http://www.competitionplus.com....html
This is part two of the article:
http://www.competitionplus.com....html
Regards,
-sijoko
This Friday night I am going to do some 1/4 runs at the drag strip. I have been extremely busy traveling and at the same time breaking in my new transmission. I also just got my JWT ECU yesterday so I will run my car both with and without JWT to see the difference. I was going to run on Wednesday night, but was too busy to get up there to the strip.
I know I am quicker...just how much quicker is the question that we all desire to know.
I have not noticed a problem with my TC. The 2,400 stall does not affect really normal daily driving, but I do notice the engine reving slightly higher under granny acceleration...but this is easily fixed wth a quick hammer the throttle to the floor.
I have some other mods on the way so I need to do the runs this Friday night before I leave town again and have my other mods installed.
I know I am quicker...just how much quicker is the question that we all desire to know.
I have not noticed a problem with my TC. The 2,400 stall does not affect really normal daily driving, but I do notice the engine reving slightly higher under granny acceleration...but this is easily fixed wth a quick hammer the throttle to the floor.
I have some other mods on the way so I need to do the runs this Friday night before I leave town again and have my other mods installed.
Don't worry q45tech, we are here to PROVE the improvement, not talk...
My car is coming in the following config:
Stillen ECU/TCUStock DiffStillen Exhaust..
I am going to run it with this config..
Then Add the 4.08
Then run it
Then add the CF driveshaft
Then run it
Then add the level ten
Then run it
Then hopefully add headers
Then run it...
All these mods may bankrupt me to the point of not being able to afford a 1/4 mile run
I'll cash in my change, at that point..
Hopeing for 13s, but would be happy with low 14s.. hopeing for triple digit traps..
My car is coming in the following config:
Stillen ECU/TCUStock DiffStillen Exhaust..
I am going to run it with this config..
Then Add the 4.08
Then run it
Then add the CF driveshaft
Then run it
Then add the level ten
Then run it
Then hopefully add headers
Then run it...
All these mods may bankrupt me to the point of not being able to afford a 1/4 mile run
I'll cash in my change, at that point..
Hopeing for 13s, but would be happy with low 14s.. hopeing for triple digit traps..
