Left foot braking kicks butt

[Sircnay]

Okay so for the last twoish weeks I've been practicing left foot breaking going from home to school to work and whatnot. Just practicing keeping just the right amount of pressure. After I could get the pressure just right, I started practicing around low speed corners going at or slightly above speed limits. Today was the first time I tried to using it at high speeds (above 40). Now I have just the normal tokico struts and lower springs combo and an OBX front strut bar. I've also got an SR20 swap stock with an intake. And falkens on 205/40/17Those are my mods so far.

So there is this circular entrance to the highway with a suggested speed of 25mph, now normally I can take this entrance at 40ish mph. I mean, it's kind of wide that you can without a hitch and whatnot but I feel kind of embarassed that I can't at least take it doubled the speed. Anyway so today the road was clear and so I tried to do the left foot braking at high speeds. So I took the turn at 50 using my left foot to apply small amounts of pressure to the brakes, I could feel less G-forces pushing me out of the car so I pushed it a little more and using the brakes accordingly, and eventually within the 10 seconds I was able to get my speed up to 60mph and the G-forces felt like when I was doing it at 40mph. Everyone should learn how to use left foot braking. I'm going to go out to my favorite country road in a couple of days and try left foot braking on the low-mid speed multiple corners.

[CA18_Dreams]

I agree with you... left foot breaking is pretty cool... but what i like to do even more is use my left foot for clutch... and my right foot for breaking and gas at the same time... it works the same way, as in what it does to handling, but you can shift if you need to...

[Sircnay]

hmmm... yeah that's my next step. I believe they call that heel-toe. Hey does your foot turn in or out? I do ballet and jazz so I would probably use my right heel to brake and my left foot for the gas.

For now I'm going to do some rev matching.

[BuudWeizErr]

Heel Gas and Toe Brake is hard if you are tall. I do Heel Brake Toe Gas because I can't get my leg angled the right way under the steering column far enough.

I think I need to figure out how to mount my seat farther back and get a steering wheel spacer, then I will be able to do it.

I'm 6'2"

[tinted]

I hear, ya Nissans are not made for tall people!, I am 6'2" also and I'm having a hell of a time driving in a Xterra with 13 size shoes, the seat all the way back and the steering wheel as far out as possible. I am having a hell of the time getting comfortable with the pedals.

[drifter_for_life06]

if tis really that easy and fun i think i mgiht have to try it, lets see what happens in the next week or so

[Sircnay]

oooh no, it's not easy, I practiced the braking pressure for about 20 minutes a day for 1 week or so, then the second week i tried taking those left hand signal turns at speed limit while using left foot braking. I wear italian leather shoes and other shoes like it and I've found that either no shoes or my dance shoes work soooo much better. Then I tried it at high speeds. This weekend or sometime soon I'm going to head out to the country side and try it on some uninhabited roads out there.

[drifter_for_life06]

O i know i didnt mean it was a piece of cake, like i said give em a week or so of practice and if i like the way it feels, most likely ill be going out for about 30-45 min a day doing it. And i live in the most rural area so i can def find some "uninhabitated roads here. thanks though on the little insight

[BuudWeizErr]

So what do you do?

When you are turning, give it a little more gas, and at the same time put a little pressure on the front brakes?

I can see why that would work. Keeps the front wheels in check and will stop any thoughts of it understeering. However, you still have to keep the oversteer in check. Probably make a good drift entry technique.

[Cyberkreig]

I also use left foot braking. I use it in the stanza more than the 240.. its great.. allows higher corner entry speeds and higher maintained speed in the corner.

Just push the tires till the start to houl then just give it a litttle brake to reel the car back to control.. its a fine blance when you really push it.

[CA18_Dreams]

I love heel-toe... i remember when i got really good at it in my crx... at first with normal braking i would take 25mph turns at 50 then with heel-toe i was able to take them at 60 or someitmes even higher... it felt a lot differnet in the corner because i was ibn a fwd car but the back-end was breaking out and i was still goin faster... very weird felling in a fwd car... but very efective

[C-Kwik]

Are you guys serious? Left-foot braking and heel-toe do not increase lateral grip. Left foot braking is used to provide a quicker smoother transistion between acceleration and braking, then into the turn(trailbraking). But as you get to full lateral load you should be off the brakes, and perhaps only on the gas enough to mainitain speed until you are ready to accelerate out of the turn. If you need to use the brake in the middle of a steady-state turn, then you are doing something wrong. Using the brakes in the middle of a turn will start taking away lateral grip in order to allow for braking. If you try do go beyond the limints of the tire, you'll likely lock up the tire and understeer like crazy.

Heel-toe is just to drop you into a lower gear while you are braking. It also does not provide anymore lateral grip. Heel-toe should not be used while turning. It should be used when you are approaching a turn. For one, a slightly botched heel-toe during full lateral load may cause you to lose grip. Even if you don't spin, and the loss of traction is momentary, you've just scrubbed a couple tenths of a second of your lap time.

By the time I'm fully committed into a turn, my left foot is on the dead pedal pushing down to keep my butt planted in the seat. My concentration is on the road ahead and keeping the car at the limits. My rightfoot is holding the gas to maintain speed and perhaps make throttlesteer adjustments if necessary.

[Cyberkreig]

Left-foot braking and heel-toe do not increase lateral grip. Left foot braking is used to provide a quicker smoother transistion between acceleration and braking, then into the turn(trailbraking).

This is right.. and very very wrong.

Tapping the brakes while in a corner will change the weight balance of the car. by transfering weight forward you press the tires harder against the ground, increasing their potential grip.

as i said before, i use this between when my tires squeel and when they start to houl.. at the first sign of loosing grip i just tap the brakes slightly. This can have the side effect of the tail end comming around as CA18_dreams described.

[CA18_Dreams]

quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by C-Kwik Left-foot braking and heel-toe do not increase lateral grip. Left foot braking is used to provide a quicker smoother transistion between acceleration and braking, then into the turn(trailbraking). --------------------------------------------------------------------------------it might not increase your G's but it will increase your entry and exit speeds....

[crypt2k]

oooook.

[C-Kwik]

quote:it might not increase your G's but it will increase your entry and exit speeds....

Yes, but it won't magically allow you to take a turn 60 that you could only take at 50 before...

[Cyberkreig]

it will in fact allow you to take a corner 10mph faster than wihtout

[drifter_for_life06]

Seems as if this thread has jsut turned from left foot braking being good to bad, who knows, if the driver is good enough at it then they can probably run almost just as fast as someone w/o

[Sleeper s13]

Your car only has 100% of its traction to use. left foot braking may generate some oversteer to reighn in a front end that stepping away from you by loading the front of the car to produce more Force normal on your tires to increase grip but at the same time it is unloading your rear tires. If they dont begin to yaw out when you do this (the rear end developes a larger arc than the front end). Then you werent using a 100% of your tires traction to begin with. If your close to the limit a slight breath off the throttle should produce some oversteer as well, unless your front end is just too far gone. Higher entry speeds are achieved by late braking. Faster exit speeds are achieved by early braking so that you can coax the turn in towards the apex sooner and find your acelleration point sooner and not exced your road width on the exit. accelerating sooner means more time on the gas means higher exit speeds. What your are suggesting is theoretically unorthodoxed but to each his own.

[drifter_for_life06]

That helps some too

[Cyberkreig]

you are absoultly correct about the 100% traction and you are just transfering traction to the front tires.

left food braking afford more time on the gas. allowing higher exit speeds. left foot braking allows higher entry speed by anchoring the front tires in place, eliminating understeer or "pushing" through a corner.

if you dont understand what i am saying from my description, you arent doing it right. end of story.

EDIT: sorry if thats harsh, but seriously.. proper weight transfer will give you the benifits i'm describing..

[[Zero-S]]

I tried it last night...took me a while to get the hang of it but its farkin awesome.

[midwestdrifter]

now im not refering to the track, but on an on ramp think that the apex would do more for your speed than braking. i can get an 87 honda civic (stock) up to 50 on an upsloped 25mph onramp with the right apex. but then again im probably not doing it right.

[Sleeper s13]

Ok. ive had time to digest what your are saying and its starting to make a little sense. Its just somewhat beyond what i learned when i read Going Faster from skip barber. :poke

[CA18_Dreams]

when i would take the corners at 50 i would start losing traction and not be able to control it... now that i can heel-toe i can control that loss of trsaction all the way to 60... plus i have a higher entry and exit speed...

[Cyberkreig]

CA- I think we are using terms like 'left foot brakeing' and 'heel-toe' loosely.

thats probably why its hard for people to understand.. when you say heel-toe.. i think you mean that you brake while accelerating using only you're right foot... which is a heel-toe move.. but isnt called 'heel toe'

[CA18_Dreams]

really :o well i know that it is at least a part of heel-toe...

[Cyberkreig]

a "heel-toe" is a specific kind of shift, where you clutch with the left, brake with the right toe and tap the throttle with the right heel..

you are describing a way to transfer weight, exactly like 'left foot braking' only you are doing it with the right foot.

[CA18_Dreams]

well yeah... i was just saying heel-toe cause in some of the corners were i live i need to shift in the turn so while i was using the same principuls of left foot breaking i would be able to shift... i know thats not the way it was meant to be used but hey... whatever works...

[Cyberkreig]

Definatly, congrats to you for adapting something to your style.