LED tail conversion - preliminary discussion and idea thread

[brandonbeeb]

ya the custom made boards arnt very cheap. im planning on doing a gb once the lights are finished but it looks like you already have a bunch of people on board for your setup

[gli liphon]

I'm glad there is a lot of interest, so lets get the group think going with this topic:

HOW SHOULD THESE BE WIRED?

Give me your ideas of what you think would look best. We're talking coupe only at this point, so everything is in one fixture. Try and format it like I have below so I can keep it all straight.

my current favorite:Headlights off (day mode): everything offHeadlights on (night mode): outer two rings at 50%Brake indicator: everything at 100%turn: outer two rings at 100%, only using half the ring/semicircle/C shape. the semicircle would be matched to the tail, so on the drivers side it would be a C shape, passenger a backwards C

These can really be wired in ANY way you can think of, so as long as you don't want every led to do something different, it can probably be done. If you cant explain it, post a rough picture or email me the pic and I'll post it.

Modified by gli liphon at 10:31 PM 1/15/2009
Modified by gli liphon at 10:36 PM 1/15/2009

[brandonbeeb]

i wasnt aware you where planning on doing a groupbuy, i figured this whole thread was about doing a setup for yourself.

[dangeris]

The initial offering of these will be a group-buy type of thing pending mod approval and all that. I haven't set a firm price yet, but I'm shooting for around what it would cost you to buy a good set of led turns and tails. I'm not listing that price, but go look at what the 3157's run on autolumination or v-leds that have comperable led counts and you can get the idea. I need to wire a few of these up to verify that I can meet that goal and the labor to do it will be as reasonable as I can make it. My goal would be to offer one price for the lights, whether you DIY it or not. So no matter what you choose, it costs $x and its just the additional cost of the new tail lights if you want me to do them for you. Also, this is based on doing the coupe tails, I haven't seen the back of a sedan light to see if its different or weird in some way. I've also had some interest from sedan owners in doing an additional light for the turn as I had drawn up in my original pics. I'm currently planning to just do one fixture for the coupe and you'd just leave your turn empty (I'll give you something to plug in there so it stays water tight). This leaves you set to put your gt-r style overlays on, or completely black out the rest of the tail (wink wink).

I'm glad there is a lot of interest, so lets get the group think going with this topic:

HOW SHOULD THESE BE WIRED?

Give me your ideas of what you think would look best. We're talking coupe only at this point, so everything is in one fixture. Try and format it like I have below so I can keep it all straight.

my current favorite:Headlights off (day mode): everything offHeadlights on (night mode): outer two rings at 50%Brake indicator: everything at 100%turn: outer two rings at 100%, only using half the ring/semicircle/C shape. the semicircle would be matched to the tail, so on the drivers side it would be a C shape, passenger a backwards C

These can really be wired in ANY way you can think of, so as long as you don't want every led to do something different, it can probably be done. If you cant explain it, post a rough picture or email me the pic and I'll post it.

If I were you Gli, I'd keep this thread on topic... "LED tail conversion - preliminary discussion and idea thread" Sure, gather interest but don't start the group buy here.

IMHO, get all the kinks ironed out first with Nico (fabricator fees) and whatever else you need to get in line and once you do that, do another post for the group buy itself!

I'm pretty sure if you start it, your venture will be grounded before it even gets off the ground.

[brandonbeeb]

ya i agree with dangeris ive had 2 threads shut down for my tails because a groupbuy got mentioned. just spoke with brian he isnt doing any more lighting gbs, most likely because of the time taken to get them done. im still waiting for customers to send in there lights to me for the headlight groubuy, got about 10 left on the order list. im retrofitting a pair of sedan lights next week with custom pb boards and 24 leds along with doing some custom painting to it i may do a write up for that for all the sedan guys

[brandonbeeb]

Just a little friendly heads up.the leds your placing for the centre of the tail light are pointless. i know everyone likes the design and asked me why i didnt do it with my proto type is because, in the middle of the light there is a thick piece of red plastic that the light wont shine through. to cut it out would look really bad. i do have leds on my board in behind that piece of plastic but you cant even see them, thats how thick it is and thats why i went with custom pc boards.

[gli liphon]

Just to be clear, this thread is not about a group buy or anything like that. If the opportunity arises that I can sell these after I start making them, there will be a separate thread created in accordance with the forum rules. This thread really is all about coming up with a design that will be liked by most people, so at some point in the future I will be able to offer them for sale. Any pricing information or specifics on purchasing these headlights discussed in this thread is all subject to change by me or the moderators of this forum.

I hope that covers it. Now give me your ideas for wiring!

[brandonbeeb]

what not you still didnt take into consideration the piece thats going to completely block the led and i would worry about that first before wiring

[Blackmobile]

so how about that thick peice of plastic covering the inner circle? are you going to try to remove it or make a ring of led's around it?? i did notice this in brandon's videos of his tails, that the center led's were blocked.

[brandonbeeb]

that centre piece cant be taken out, unless you want to cut into that hole piece which will look weird if theres plastic to the sides then the centre is blank. you cant place it in front because you cant open the headlights like the sedan ones. thats why i went with custom pc boards and made the ring perfect to fit around the blocked out centre on the new boards.

[LongBeachCoupe]

GLI has been speaking with me regularly, no "gb" style lighting is going to be an option with something like this.

For it to work it will be an item for sale.(there will not be any "10 guys need to pay first" type of deal happening again)

Again, tyler blake or myself will have to have a item in our hands before it is allowed to be sold to you guys to assure quality and safety parameters are covered.

[bina12834]

Again, tyler blake or myself will have to have a item in our hands before it is allowed to be sold to you guys to assure quality and safety parameters are covered.

do you return the product once youre done "assuring quality and safety parameters"?

[bina12834]

that centre piece cant be taken out, unless you want to cut into that hole piece which will look weird if theres plastic to the sides then the centre is blank. you cant place it in front because you cant open the headlights like the sedan ones. thats why i went with custom pc boards and made the ring perfect to fit around the blocked out centre on the new boards.

why not just take the whole red lens that's inside that tube out so the LED board is showing? He said hes going to chrome the disc that the LEDs are sitting in, so it wont look bad. and yes i know theres an issue with the fact that there needs to be a reflector, so why not just take that red area in my pic and make it the reflector? just cut out a disc out of a reflector and super glue it on or something......just an idea.


Modified by bina12834 at 10:23 PM 1/15/2009

[brandonbeeb]

its all one piece inside and me and dangeris are comming up with some new ideas for some sedans and coupes

[LongBeachCoupe]

do you return the product once youre done "assuring quality and safety parameters"?

The part will not be returned. But an installation writeup, pictures, and unbiased feedback will be provided to the community before any of the members dollars are put into play.

A local Nico coupe guy came by today to take a ride in my car to hear the nismo exhaust and was asking me if Nico staff get paid...

We do not, we do it for the love of the forums and to be able to help the community, these types of things are the "perks" of being a moderator.

[bina12834]

its all one piece inside and me and dangeris are comming up with some new ideas for some sedans and coupes

im sure that little round red lens could be taken or cut out.

[brandonbeeb]

once the sedan light comes in im going to get to work on ripping it out, working out details with the tester we have.

[Rob.Vegan]

I like the whole C / Backwards C turn signal idea.

I would say that the inner circle needs to play a bigger part in this junction other than just a brake light but if it's not even going to be visible then nevermind.

looks good so far, cant wait to see a prototype

[gli liphon]

As far as the middle reflector goes, I'll have to defer to brandon since I haven't opened one up yet. I was hoping that putting leds behind it would just increase light output in the whole enclosure. I'll have to do some testing and see if it makes any difference. If it doesn't, there really isn't a need to even put them in there. Or maybe they'd work better being the turn signal indicator. Theres a couple different ways it could be used if its just adding ambient light to the tail fixture, it'll just take some testing to figure it out. I'm still waiting on my test tail to arrive.

I'm going to try and keep this thread focused on the design since I'm still early in the process. If anyone has other ideas for design or suggestions, please post them or send me an email. I'm going to refrain from discussing pricing or availability until the appropriate time, I'd appreciate it if everyone else will do the same.

[spockrock]

quick question, I know the power draw for 70 LEDs is around 6W, give or take their specs, but how many resistors are you putting down and how much power are they drawing?

My question is the tail plugs/harness are probably 35-55w, all this is great but if it draws 125 W its going to pop fuses.

[gli liphon]

that's a good question. based on the leds i'm planning to use, it looks like the total draw of 76 is going to be 4W. No worries on fuses. These will need an inline resistor for the turn signal though, I have a few different ones to test out once one of these is built.

[Dest556]

I'm loving the concept so far. I can't wait to see a prototype!

[spockrock]

that's a good question. based on the leds i'm planning to use, it looks like the total draw of 76 is going to be 4W. No worries on fuses. These will need an inline resistor for the turn signal though, I have a few different ones to test out once one of these is built.

Well its not the LED wattage I am worried about, and don't take this into offense but if its the resistors and the design. A good design can keep it well below poor design and you could shoot up.

[gli liphon]

Well its not the LED wattage I am worried about, and don't take this into offense but if its the resistors and the design. A good design can keep it well below poor design and you could shoot up.

None taken. This is the first time I've tried something like this, so if you know what I should avoid doing or suggestions for what to do to make it work really well, any help would be appreciated.

[spockrock]

None taken. This is the first time I've tried something like this, so if you know what I should avoid doing or suggestions for what to do to make it work really well, any help would be appreciated.

Well it depends what are the technical specs of the LEDs, you need to determine your circuit design, series, parallel, or mixed. So if you are using 12V LEDs then that means all the LEDs need to be in a parallel circuit, means the total current draw is sum of your current draw of each LED. Power is P=VI, Power=Voltage * Current. My best bet is to research as much as you can.
Modified by spockrock at 9:20 AM 1/16/2009

[djvas514]

Is it possible to sequence the lights to make a moving arrow like effect for the turn signals? Or is that too ricey?

I was thinking of something like inner circle lights up first (100% power) then second outer ring lights up (100% power)...

Of course I would need to see something like that in action to determine if it looks better on paper that in an actual tail light.

It may not even be possible..I don't know just and idea..

Feel free to educate me..

[dangeris]

It is possible but that would involve a sequencer, similar to the one that used for my front signals. IMO, i don't think that would look bad. If you put your signal to make a left turn, the circle(s) would light up from the inside out signifying a turn while the right signals are on full blast.

Will it look ricey, I guess that's just a matter of opinion. I personally like it!

[djvas514]

Nice!

[mikegtr06]

+1 for competition

more competition equals lower prices.

[legend_217]

gl ! any update ?