LED tail conversion - preliminary discussion and idea thread

[bina12834]

Looks great man!! It came out exactly how i was hoping it would look. I know this just a very very rough prototype, but the spacing between each LED needs to be worked on a little bit to get them equal distances apart.

[brandonbeeb]

basically you need to cut out the circle on the back, you need to use a vacum while you do it or your going to have all pieces of plastic in the headlight that you will never get out. the top part is pointless for leds i think when its just the signal doesnt really seem worth the money/ time involved. the reverse lamp is such a tiny area your best bet is to go with the led bulbs that have about 6-10 small leds on them. the set i have in my car i can wire it up so that the tail light led flashes for the signal as well as functons as the brake light but it doesnt make much sense when your using your brake light and signal at the same time as you wont see the signal just the brake light.heres my setup which im planning on doing after the headlights are finished, about 10 lights left. i cant post a price but it wont be as much as originally thought

this video one side is stock one side is led so you can see how much brighter and how much faster the led ones kick in

[gli liphon]

Wow, those look really good brandon! That finished led fixture is really clean and pretty much what I'm thinking to do as well. The brightness is amazing, do you remember what the specs are on the LEDs? I've ordered a few different sets with different mcd ratings and different output angles to try and find the best ones.

I've made some additional clay prototypes over the weekend, but I'm kind of unhappy with how they turned out. I realized I'm trying to do too much at once and I really should use regular items modded together to make the prototype and then make a mold based on that so its a single piece of plastic. Anyway, here's the 2nd prototype with a curved surface, better hole alignment and texture.

[Mr_Coupe]

i think they look great but to me they are so small i could barely tell the difference. couldnt they be slightly bigger like the g35 leds ?or the ones nismo made for the 350z

[gli liphon]

i think they look great but to me they are so small i could barely tell the difference. couldnt they be slightly bigger like the g35 leds ?or the ones nismo made for the 350z

I've been thinking about this too, and came up with a new idea. Instead of mounting the leds directly in the housing, create cone shaped lenses and mount the LEDs back an inch or two. With the added surface area and reflection, they should shine much brighter and have a neat effect. I've ordered a few different types of LEDs to try out too, some of the standard round ones and some that are flat that have a much wider field of output. The G35 tails are like this a little bit, but I don't think the depth is that much. Here's a drawing with a half inch reflector and a 5mm led. I'm not sure I like this pattern yet, but I wanted to get this out there since you brought it up. Since this is straight on, its just going to look like a bunch of dual cicles, but you'll get the idea. Right now I'm thinking of at least an inch offset, but it could go a little higher since the original depth of the OEM reflector is about 1.75" or so. Its kinda hard to visualize, but hopefully this helps.



And like I said, this definitely isn't the final design or anything, I'm just trying to figure out a good way to lay out the circles so they look good. I need to get the dimension of that inner reflector, i'm thinking a ring spaced half in and half out of that reflector would look pretty sweet.

[mcheddadi]

Posting in a legendary thread!

[gli liphon]

so these look like a gross birthday cake, but its the latest test run of the tail lights. as i was wandering around lowes looking for a piece of plastic to cut or fit to something that would make decent led reflectors, i realized i was going about this all wrong and making it wayyy more complicated than it needed to be. so basically this is epoxy resin with yellow wire nuts embedded. with some sanding and cleanup, this can be used as the template to make a silicone mold that then will cast a single piece pvc like part. I'd like to have the final piece a lot thinner, this was just a first attempt at seeing if i could make a clay mold to hold the resin that doesn't leak. all good. so if you squint and think really hard you can see a pretty finished piece in a nice chrome with lots of leds.

i'll do some measurements tomorrow and figure out the maths for getting the exact circle size based on the wirenut diameter.





obviously still a very rough prototype, but this is going to make creating a part based on the drawings much easier.

edlt: lol to dirty dishes in the sink!

[mikegtr06]

imo i like the second prototype design better.

or like these



but without the second ring from the outside there.

[LongBeachCoupe]

That disc isnt re-inventing the wheel... the leds arent in any specific array and they can be bought quite easily.

[bina12834]

gli liphon and i have been emailing back and forth a lot in regards to how to build these things. We think we came up with the perfect design for the LED disc. Looks like ill be getting the first pair of these when theyre done, so ill be taking plenty of pics and vids for everyone of the lights themselves and the install. He plans on making them totally plug and play, so if you can remove your tails, youll be able to install these no problem.

[gli liphon]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions for far, please keep them coming! I finally figured out the math to get these spaced exactly right and all that jazz. The plan right now is to use chrome led mounts and put them into a single piece that ends up with this configuration:



Its a little crazy with 77 total leds, but hey, if you're going to spend the money on new tails, who wants just a few?

Here's some pics of the actual chrome mount with an led in it





Here is a close approximation as to how the ring with 6 leds will look



I've figured out how to do the whole thing with adjusting the brightness, so in this setup we can literally do any combination of 100% bright, 50% bright, and off with the same leds (I guess technically you could do additional levels of brightness, but its going to be complicated enough as it is), so as far as picking a pattern for what turns on with the brake, whats on when the headlights are on and what is on when the turn signal is on is completely customizable. I will probably leave this up to each person so you can do your own thing if you want.

Full brightness

Half brightness

Dont let the pictures fool you either, I had to shoot from the side because these things are crazy bright at either setting and it overwhelms the sensor in the camera. Like frickin' laser beams I tell ya.

Anyway, I'm going to try and make some other examples using this design using these LED holders once I get more parts. I'm running pretty thin on my first batch of supplies.

Well there's todays megapost as to the status of things. Again, thanks for all the feedback, comments and ideas so far, please keep them rolling in.

edit - I thought I'd mention the legal boilerplate that is going to have to come with these things. The modded tails are not going to have DOT approval or whatever sign offs are needed to make these street legal so these are for demo/showroom only (wink wink nudge nudge). I need to go pull bluebat's legal blurb he has for his overlays, that summed it up pretty nicely.
Modified by gli liphon at 10:32 PM 1/15/2009

[mcheddadi]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions for far, please keep them coming! I finally figured out the math to get these spaced exactly right and all that jazz. The plan right now is to use chrome led mounts and put them into a single piece that ends up with this configuration:



Its a little crazy with 77 total leds, but hey, if you're going to spend the money on new tails, who wants just a few?

Here's some pics of the actual chrome mount with an led in it





Here is a close approximation as to how the ring with 6 leds will look



I've figured out how to do the whole thing with adjusting the brightness, so in this setup we can literally do any combination of 100% bright, 50% bright, and off with the same leds (I guess technically you could do additional levels of brightness, but its going to be complicated enough as it is), so as far as picking a pattern for what turns on with the brake, whats on when the headlights are on and what is on when the turn signal is on is completely customizable. I will probably leave this up to each person so you can do your own thing if you want.

Full brightness

Half brightness

Dont let the pictures fool you either, I had to shoot from the side because these things are crazy bright at either setting and it overwhelms the sensor in the camera. Like frickin' laser beams I tell ya.

Anyway, I'm going to try and make some other examples using this design using these LED holders once I get more parts. I'm running pretty thin on my first batch of supplies.

Some additional details on logistics... (all subject to change, blah blah blah) After talking with Bina, I think the best way to actually do these is to do a tail light swap. I'm going to have to purchase an extra set of tails to do my testing anyway, so I'll have a spare set to use. If you end up wanting to get a set of these, you'll put your order in, I'll make them with my spare set and then send you the modded set. So this really will end up being a drop in mod that you just pull your old tails and plug these in. I'll include the shipping supplies and label to send your unmodded tails back to me, and those will get used in the next set for the next person. So there will be a little bit of a delay between each set, but it'll keep the cost down and you won't have to pay for another set of tails (you can if you would rather do that) and you won't have to worry about not having taillights. Pricing is still TBD, but I'm still standing by my original post that stated this isn't about making money, its all about making my own mod to share with the community. I will be doing these for the coupes as well as 4th gen sedans to start. If the response is good, this could easily be expanded to other altimas, it would just be a matter of getting a set of tails and coming up with a design.

Well there's todays megapost as to the status of things. Again, thanks for all the feedback, comments and ideas so far, please keep them rolling in.

edit - I thought I'd mention the legal boilerplate that is going to have to come with these things. The modded tails are not going to have DOT approval or whatever sign offs are needed to make these street legal so these are for demo/showroom only (wink wink nudge nudge). I need to go pull bluebat's legal blurb he has for his overlays, that summed it up pretty nicely.

Can't wait for the prototype's pics!

[JayStarr]

can't wait for this to be done, this is gonna look so sexy

[LongBeachCoupe]

GLI check your email!

[gli liphon]

So I realized that all my early attempts might be hard to get an idea of what the finished product would look like, so I wanted to make something that will be exactly like the finished product. This is a small example, I only had 6 of the led holders to use. Hopefully this will give everyone a better idea what i'm trying to do. The final product will be this material, but sanded and painted chrome to match the led mounts. These are also mounted and spaced the same way they will be in the final tail light, its the 6 led ring from the pic at the top of the page.



This is NOT how it will be wired, but this shot shows how each led is sealed and the back finish isn't glossy. Even though you won't see it, this side will probably be primed and painted to give a good clean look.

This is the thickness I'm shooting for, around 1/4 inch. You can also see the led mounts are floated in the fixture for easy access.

Here is a straight on shot with the leds lit up. These are wide angle leds instead of the standard dome type, so they really light up the reflector.



Top shot with the ambient lighting off. These are crazy bright. This is the 100% brightness level.

Now I'm just waiting on more supplies to make the first full sized version.

[sonicbliss]

ok, NOW im interested. good work so far man, keep it up!

[brandonbeeb]

have you looked into superflux led and boards to make them? what do you figure the cost will be and the time to do a set for everyone on here?

[djvas514]

This is looking so nice bro! You def have me interested. Just don't make them too Ricey and we should be in the house.

[mcheddadi]

So I realized that all my early attempts might be hard to get an idea of what the finished product would look like, so I wanted to make something that will be exactly like the finished product. This is a small example, I only had 6 of the led holders to use. Hopefully this will give everyone a better idea what i'm trying to do. The final product will be this material, but sanded and painted chrome to match the led mounts. These are also mounted and spaced the same way they will be in the final tail light, its the 6 led ring from the pic at the top of the page.



This is NOT how it will be wired, but this shot shows how each led is sealed and the back finish isn't glossy. Even though you won't see it, this side will probably be primed and painted to give a good clean look.

This is the thickness I'm shooting for, around 1/4 inch. You can also see the led mounts are floated in the fixture for easy access.

Here is a straight on shot with the leds lit up. These are wide angle leds instead of the standard dome type, so they really light up the reflector.



Top shot with the ambient lighting off. These are crazy bright. This is the 100% brightness level.

Now I'm just waiting on more supplies to make the first full sized version.

I don't care if its not a tutorial, I demand the man gets a custom title!

[gli liphon]

have you looked into superflux led and boards to make them? what do you figure the cost will be and the time to do a set for everyone on here?

I haven't really looked at the superflux just because I'm not as familiar with them. It seems like those would definitely need to be board mounted and I'm not sure thats a good way to go unless I just have a custom pcb made and all that. It would definitely be possible, but not something I could do as a single run test. Let me know what you are thinking though, I probably just don't know what you are talking about.

With respect to timing for making each set, it shouldn't be too bad. My final process will be making these with a casting and mold process, so it'll go very quickly, only a few hours to let the resin set. The most time consuming part is going to be the wiring. I'm working on the schematics for this now, so I'm not sure what the time for that will be.

I'll keep everyone posted as my next set of supplies arrive, hopefully before the weekend so I can do a full sized prototype.
Modified by gli liphon at 10:33 PM 1/15/2009

[bina12834]

they look awesome!! they are really super bright....we might blind the people behind us! lol

[ItsEcko06]

I NEEDS TO HAS THESE TAILS!!!!

[JayStarr]

zomg i need to get these, would you consider even having ppl send in their tails like how brandon did with the projectors..If you do I wanna be first in line to get my lights done

[dangeris]

Definitely interested as long as the costs is substantial

Gli, Make sure you contact a mod like LBC BEFORE doing anything like offering this to the public. There are rules in place here that were set to protect the Nico community. Like everyone here, we'd like for you to succeed in your endeavor however skirting around the rules and/or trying to get out of them would not be the right course of action to take.

[gli liphon]

Ok, the design has changed slightly, this is just to make the wiring about 1000 times easier and not need resistors all over the place. The less stuff going in means less stuff to complicate things or break down the road. This isn't to scale here, but the outside circle is 15cm and each little circle is to scale for the reflector. Instead of 32, 24,12,6,1 led circles, its 30, 24,12,6.


Modified by gli liphon at 10:34 PM 1/15/2009

[gli liphon]

Definitely interested as long as the costs is substantial

Gli, Make sure you contact a mod like LBC BEFORE doing anything like offering this to the public. There are rules in place here that were set to protect the Nico community. Like everyone here, we'd like for you to succeed in your endeavor however skirting around the rules and/or trying to get out of them would not be the right course of action to take.

Thanks for the heads up, its already taken care of. LBC and I are working out the details via email.

[legend_217]

http://www.trademotion.com/par...gid=2They sell A/C taillights for a lil cheaper. You also might get discount for a large order. Hope this help

[gli liphon]

.
Modified by gli liphon at 10:35 PM 1/15/2009

[legend_217]

How much would you cost for labor ? Would you run a group buy as well ?

[djvas514]

He's still trying to work that out.