killing an integra at the wheel???

[Cyberkreig]

I've seen that vid too. Temple of VTEC i think it was. GSR did win.

[Kaioshin1982]

yeah and dont u think it was weird that type-r pulled SOOOO hard on 3rd? i think silvia missed 3rd...

[89240sx]

I dont really care if they are faster... I think the 240 is way better looking and not to mention better handling and a RWD!

This may start a flame but in my personal beliefs there is no FWD performance cars. but prove me wrong if you must...

[Eklectrick]

yeah and dont u think it was weird that type-r pulled SOOOO hard on 3rd? i think silvia missed 3rd...

I don't know what the silvia feels like in 3rd, but I do know that the Type R frukin' GOES when it is in 3rd.

[Cyberkreig]

It was amazing how fast he overtook in 3rd.. i figured it was a combination of gear ratio and VTEC

[nlzmo400r]

personally i like the way the jdm type r looks, and it pulled SOO hard in 3rd guys, i think his shift sucked, because it was THAT bad

[WongFeiHung]

Integras and Civic SIs have notorious 3rd gears. ITRs also come from the factory weight reducted. If you are unfamiliar with the ITR you'd be VERY surprised at what this FWD car do in the twisties, not to mention in a straight line. IMO the ITR sets the bar for 'FWD performance' ;P

If you ever watch Best Motoring videos, you'll find that they repeatedly race ITRs with GT-R's, RX-7s, WRXs, Altezzas...They get mad respect in Japan...The 3rd(?) gen Integra is the best compact made by Honda.

[zombieman]

don't get discourage silviadrag, the cars they are talking about is between a s14(i think about 200+ lbs heavier) and itr(which weigh more lighter than a gsr). i'm pretty sure a stock s13 sr20 have no problem beating a stock itr. i know this one dude who constantly beat type-r (also includes b18c5 civic HB, 200 lbs lighter than integra type-r) and all he has is a sr20det with a intake and AFC. i'm not sure if the Ka24de engine plays a factor but the 91-94 240sx are much heavier than the 89-90 models.

honda makes the best FWD car that can compete in circuit racing. every other company that makes FWD can not match the honda FWD. in fact, that CTR is the best handling FWD out there, that's why you see those cars competing against GTR, FD, supra, etc. on the circuit. then again, TURBO is much better than NA, that's why we swap in sr20 and RBs engine right?

[nlzmo400r]

i have great respect for the type Rs, however, let nissan/toyota or someone else take their best FWD car and strip it down to a race ready version, put higher compression pistons/gaskets in it, beef up the internals a tad, and call it a race car, anyone can do it, especially for the 27k price of an ITR, and that was the older ones when they were new,i knowthe new CTR is running 25-26k in euroupe, and the newer ones arent as 'type r ' as they used to be, they added a lot of weight ot the new ones with accomidations, such as a/c that the old ones didnt have, also, sure they put them up against skylines and such on the track, but have they ever beat any supra turbo? gtr? rx7turbo? i dont think so, its just a tad out of their league, great cars indeed, but for the price, ill take a wrx, or base 35oZ, their just too expensive for what they are

[mitchs_240sx_se]

i can easily agree with that

[nlzmo400r]

its just that everyone always brags on type Rs and their great capabilites, and yes they are amazing, but for the price, i dunno, it sounds to me like you're buying more name and fame than the actual goods

[Kaioshin1982]

preach on brotha~ lol

[Syntax360]

wow.....the focus of this thread shifted drastically :-P he says "no engine swapping" and it goes from GSR vs. KA to type-r vs. silvias.........lol. 3rd gear is pretty damn good on vtech integras

[nlzmo400r]

this is true, but if u saw the video you would know what im talking about, i just dont see how a 22ohp with 2ooft lbs of tq, got beat by a 2oohp car with 14o ft lbs of tq, not to mention the 24o has rwd, and also, it wieghs about 3oolbs more at most, so i dont see how it came back to burn the silvia when it was already a carlength back at midtrack

[nissanrcer240]

Quote »this is true, but if u saw the video you would know what im talking about, i just dont see how a 22ohp with 2ooft lbs of tq, got beat by a 2oohp car with 14o ft lbs of tq, not to mention the 24o has rwd, and also, it wieghs about 3oolbs more at most, so i dont see how it came back to burn the silvia when it was already a carlength back at midtrack[/quote]

it was only 1 race, like someone said earlier, he could of missed 3rd, or mess up or something small that gave the type r the advantage, and plus it was on an integra board or something if i recall right(not tryin to take away from the type r in anyway btw)

i think the 94+ gsr's had 170 hp, and the 90-93 gsr's had 160 hp, so if its a 2nd gen. vtec integra then he might be able to beat it, i dont think he said what year he had either right??

[Toahk]

Also conside what they pay for their cars, and what we could do with our cars with the same amount of money they are spending. =)

[Nameless EJ6]

WELL I just love these threads.

Believe it or not, vtec is a blessing on small engines. And you know, that blessing may just hand you your *** sometime.

Maybe if you understood what variable valve timing is you could come to respect it. See these sites:

http://www.leecao.com/honda/vtec/http:/ ... a-tech.com

After that, I recomend you look into subjects such as:

Valve OverlapRam AirCompressionVolumetric EfficiencyPower to Weight RatioHp per Litre

..and lets not forget: Torque and Horsepower.

But don't get too into the facts though, because you wouldn't want to realize you made the most retarded thread of all time. (or for some.. participated in it)

[JJ240]

As thought provoking as you may think that post was in actuality it was pretty stupid. Most of the people here understand what vtec is and what it does. Ram air is fairly useless providing minimal gains and only at high speeds and I dont see what connection this has to vtec integras. Compression doesnt affect anything except horsepower and torque really so why mention it separately. By third gear power to weight ratio isnt that important anymore it comes down to pure HP. Isnt volumetric efficiency and hp per liter about the same thing? And wtf is up with ::and lets not forget Hp and torque:: I dont think anyone has forgotten that considering it was in 80% of the posts so far. Your post is worthless, you didnt say anything regarding what people were discussing. Maybe if you had thrown out some 1/4 mile timeslips of integras or dyno printouts of integras we would have gotten some use from your post. You dont need to come here and bash people it isnt welcome. Im sure a nice forum like http://www.honda-tech.com loves having fools like you running around connecting their name with rant posts like yours.

[JJ240]

Believe it or not, Acura owners CAN beat a 240SX because they have a VTEC engine in their "stupid Integra". Stock GSR is faster than stock KA 240SX.

It was amazing how fast he overtook in 3rd.. i figured it was a combination of gear ratio and VTEC

i dont think anyone here needs to learn to respect vtec. Any import owner who doesnt see vtec as a powerful addition to an engine is a fool as well. Some nissans have variable valve timing as well. Maybe you feel you need to defend hondas on a nissan forum but you dont. Most of us can see a well engineered car no matter what brand name is on it.

[s14modified]

If the GSR does not have a VTEC controller. You shouldn't fear it. The VTEC kicks in around 7000rpm and redlines at 7500rpm. No time for him to play. He will only get 178HP when he is in VTEC. Without VTEC working, he's probably around 140HP.

Street wise, you'll beat him. Long stretch and Highway, you'll lose.

I have a 92Si / VTEC and I can smoke my friend's S13 by 3-4 cars. My VTEC kicks at 5,400 rpm though and red lines at 7,500rpm. I have alot of pull and when I shift at red line, I fall right back in VTEC range. That's why the H22 is fast.

But as for GSR's, (IF STOCK) when they do reach VTEC, it's time to shift. And when they shift, they are out of VTEC and has to climb again.

Get a good launch and stay ahead. He won't be able to catch up until its too late....

[Cyberkreig]

Nameless EJ6 -- Ok Captain Initiail D. I think most people here know what VTEC is and what it can do. It is a good idea, but it isnt japans gift to the small motor. If you really wanna look at it I'd say that Toyotas VVTL-I is a far better system.

Ram air? VE? Hp per liter?? *ahem* Turbo!!

[7thGear]

2 things i havent seen mentioned yet, which i will mention now

1 - tire weight and size

as a personal stupid tuner mistake, i stuck 17" rims on my very lowly D16 honda, going up a hill in third gear i lose speed, its very depressing, since the rims where cheap, they were heavy, and now i'm kicking myself in the ***.

remeber that rims + tires that end up having a larger diameter, but weigh less, will produce greater speed at any RPM. Everyone here is so obssed with engine codes the forgot what keeps the car on the road!!

tire pressure, thickness, longivity, all that makes a significant diffrence in a cars performance.

What kind of wheels does the Teg have? what kind of wheels do YOU have? Maybe you should pump up your tires by 2-5 psi before a race if the weather is dry.

second

clutches, what sort of clutch does he have? what clutch do u have? Maybe his grabs more and so his car connects faster. Dont forget about those either

also small points to remeber

how much do you weigh vs the other guy? ,If the due is 100 pounds lighte or hevier than you, it would actualy make a 0.1 second diffrence, but hey, its small but still a diffrence

what are the clearances of the two vehicles, maybe the teg is naturaly lower to the ground which would give it an instant advantage.

engine codes are not everything.

And while where on the subject of honda vs everyone else, i put my money on a Turboed b18c in a crx + proffesional suspension. GG

[nlzmo400r]

As thought provoking as you may think that post was in actuality it was pretty stupid. Most of the people here understand what vtec is and what it does. Ram air is fairly useless providing minimal gains and only at high speeds and I dont see what connection this has to vtec integras. Compression doesnt affect anything except horsepower and torque really so why mention it separately. By third gear power to weight ratio isnt that important anymore it comes down to pure HP. Isnt volumetric efficiency and hp per liter about the same thing? And wtf is up with ::and lets not forget Hp and torque:: I dont think anyone has forgotten that considering it was in 80% of the posts so far. Your post is worthless, you didnt say anything regarding what people were discussing. Maybe if you had thrown out some 1/4 mile timeslips of integras or dyno printouts of integras we would have gotten some use from your post. You dont need to come here and bash people it isnt welcome. Im sure a nice forum like http://www.honda-tech.com loves having fools like you running around connecting their name with rant posts like yours.

:ylsuper preach to em!!!

[nlzmo400r]

If the GSR does not have a VTEC controller. You shouldn't fear it. The VTEC kicks in around 7000rpm and redlines at 7500rpm. No time for him to play. He will only get 178HP when he is in VTEC. Without VTEC working, he's probably around 140HP.

Street wise, you'll beat him. Long stretch and Highway, you'll lose.

I have a 92Si / VTEC and I can smoke my friend's S13 by 3-4 cars. My VTEC kicks at 5,400 rpm though and red lines at 7,500rpm. I have alot of pull and when I shift at red line, I fall right back in VTEC range. That's why the H22 is fast.

But as for GSR's, (IF STOCK) when they do reach VTEC, it's time to shift. And when they shift, they are out of VTEC and has to climb again.

Get a good launch and stay ahead. He won't be able to catch up until its too late....

i just have a quick, off topic question for you, u say that the vtec kicks in at 7k for the newer (b18c1) integras (i think its a 5th gen?) , but redlines at 75oo, i was fairly sure that hte vtec on that integra hit at about 57oo-6k, it seems almost useless to have vtec start at 7k and redline at 75oo, can u double check or elaborate on tihs pleaes?

[JJ240]

Yeah im pretty sure that is incorrect.

[7thGear]

ok for a fact i know vtec does not kick in at 7000, thats just stupid.

And 5500-6000 seems a little far fetched too.

An aqaintence of mine that owns an s2000 says his kicks in at 4000, but maybe its diffrent for the b18

also to the comment " when he shifts he is out of vtec", so your saying that the egineers that where designing the GSR gear box, who are most likely the exact same engineers ( or egineers who used the same technology) that designed the Prelude, would be so stupid as to create gear ratios that make the car useless? GG, now take this time to re-think what you said, the gsr wasnt built to be a POS car.

[Nameless EJ6]

GSR switches to vtec at 4400 rpm on the 94-01 models, which is very low.. but because of the intake manifold design they were able to produce more low end torque that way. I'm not sure about the older gens. The Redline is 8,000 (arguably). USDM GSR is rated 170 HP.. the JDM version is closer to 180 hp. And in reality.. it's much lower on a dyno as most everyone knows.

As thought provoking as you may think that post was in actuality it was pretty stupid. Most of the people here understand what vtec is and what it does. Ram air is fairly useless providing minimal gains and only at high speeds and I dont see what connection this has to vtec integras. Compression doesnt affect anything except horsepower and torque really so why mention it separately. By third gear power to weight ratio isnt that important anymore it comes down to pure HP. Isnt volumetric efficiency and hp per liter about the same thing? And wtf is up with ::and lets not forget Hp and torque:: I dont think anyone has forgotten that considering it was in 80% of the posts so far. Your post is worthless, you didnt say anything regarding what people were discussing. Maybe if you had thrown out some 1/4 mile timeslips of integras or dyno printouts of integras we would have gotten some use from your post. You dont need to come here and bash people it isnt welcome. Im sure a nice forum like http://www.honda-tech.com loves having fools like you running around connecting their name with rant posts like yours.

So maybe I didn't read 80% of the posts.. I stopped after the first couple of retarded ones. I'm not trying to provoke anything.. but I think rather than sitting around whining about "vtec integra" *some* people could be learning about interesting facts instead of making uninformed comments like "VTEC is not all that great unless its from a NSX" or "the old b18c5 type r's have such weight loss."

Which is why I threw out those topics. Some of them were irrelevant.. I can see that.

So uh yea.. sorry for not reading the entire thread. Just for you (I bet you're proud) I went back and read it... and I'll admit now, my post looks way out in left field. I was in a hurry and I didn't stop to notice that not everyone here is an idiot.

Now.. since you're wondering, there is a connection between vtec (or "vtec integra" as you say) and ram air at high rpms. Which is just that. Vtec allows more air to become rammed into the cylinder as engine rpm increases. That is the sole purpose of its existence. I don't see why you say it has "minimal gains." If it was minimal gains, you wouldn't see these large humps at 5,700 rpms:

This is a stock ITR dyno example of which I found. You said I should post one so here it is...

Volumetric efficiency can be tied into HP/Litre, but when discussing it by itself it really doesn't refer to horsepower. It's simply the relationship between the amount of air required to fill the cylinder at atmospheric pressure vs. the amount of air that fills the cylinder during the intake stroke. Intake/exhaust system design and valve timing affect volumetric efficiency the most when were talking about a n/a motor. The more volumetrically efficient your engine is, the more power it will make at high rpms.

Anyways, your comment about me mentioning honda-tech wasn't too pleasing. I mentioned that site because that is where I spend alot of my internet time and I've done alot of learning there. Chances are if you have a question about anything that relates to Hondas, you'll find an answer there.

Anyways, I didn't come over here to troll or start sh*t, I came over here to learn and help others. Sorry that my last post was kindof F'd up... I'm done.

[7thGear]

is it true that writing mugen in japanese on your windshiled gives you 5hp?

sorry i just had to say that.

[JJ240]

I know you lurk at honda-tech, thats why i mentioned it. I lurk at honda-tech as well, i did plenty of research there when I did a turbo EX coupe. I dont know if I would describe vtec as a ram air effect, its not pressurizing the air entering the engine, its just allowing the air displaced into the engine to do so easier. Thanks for the dynograph...now be a pal and grab me one for a turbo 2000 civic ex running 8PSI on a small T3T04 tuned correctly glad to have it civil again.

But seriously I think the boosted civic isnt running to full potential, the local dyno we put it on is really innacurate or the car is running like crap. Closest respectable dyno with someone who can tune the car is about 5 hours away that I know so it will be a little while before it gets tuned.

[s14modified]

sorry about the vtec engagement. its 4400rpm. My friends gsr is kicking at 7500 for some reason.

In that case. you'll just loose unless you boost.