Kia has a turbo RWD now, WTF Nissan.

[AZhitman]

The problem is this, and I learned it from talking with several product planners and engineers over the past couple years:

Nissan has this mistaken idea that taking a CVT and programming the logic so that it "feels" like an automatic (including the old-school "kick-down" or "passing gear") somehow makes it "not really a CVT."

THEN, because they're so busy patting each other on the back over sales figures, they get this delusion that adding "paddle shifters" makes it a valid replacement for a manual transmission.

"Hey, you can change gears by flicking the lever - that's a manual transmission!"

No, that's an insult. In fact, most of the people I know who own cars with "paddle shifters" never use them. It's silly gimmickry like this that makes me wonder if they're really car guys or just appliance salesmen.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

They need to hire a guy/gal like one of us to help them figure out the market base. I'm available to hire! Ha ha

[AZhitman]

Won't happen. It's already been established - we don't know what we're talking about.

According to Nissan, the Juke is the Second Coming of the Shelby Cobra, no one will ever, ever, want or buy a RWD sports car again, Millenials don't understand cars, manual transmissions are too complicated, clutch pedals are for Neanderthals, and "you can have any transmission you want, as long as it's a CVT."

Here's my response: Put out an IDx NISMO with a CVT and I will make it my life's work to make it the butt of more jokes than the CrossCabriolet.

[dre1507]

Bubba, the current state of the car isn't very far from being DOA. The supposed 1.2-1.5 that is expected to be in the Freeflow is already very unappealing to me. And the 1.6 from the Juke, slated to be shoved into the face of the Nismo, doesn't exactly scream sportscar-worthy. Not to mention CVT. And yes, Greg. paddle shifters are goofy.

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Won't happen. It's already been established - we don't know what we're talking about.

According to Nissan, the Juke is the Second Coming of the Shelby Cobra, no one will ever, ever, want or buy a RWD sports car again, Millenials don't understand cars, manual transmissions are too complicated, clutch pedals are for Neanderthals, and "you can have any transmission you want, as long as it's a CVT."

Here's my response: Put out an IDx NISMO with a CVT and I will make it my life's work to make it the butt of more jokes than the CrossCabriolet.

that's unfortunate. They need to realize that having an affordable sports MANUAL TRANSMISSION rwd car is essential to keeping brand loyalty. If it weren't for the 240SX, I wouldn't also own three other Nissans... case in point.

[AZhitman]

I'm honestly weary of the back-and-forth. We've already been told that we're a vocal, but irrelevant, minority... we've been told that social media is a much better platform for Nissan's message than forums,* and we've been told that our expectations are unrealistic.

Here's my challenge: Build something that makes me want to sell my '05 MazdaSpeed Miata, and I'll pay cash for the first one to come to Arizona. Granted, that's subjective, but you've had NINE years to study the success of that formula. Call me when it goes into production, and I'll tell you what color I want.

* A note to the twit from NNA who said that: Forums ARE the original social media...and we STILL get more traffic than your Facebook page.

[Eikon]

A note from a long time Nissan lover and current Subaru BRZ owner:

I loved Nissan when they used the word "Fun" to describe their vehicles and it actually meant something.

I've owned 9 different Nissan vehicles and to say that I was "loyal" would have been an understatement. Hell, i've spent over 12 years as part of the leadership team of the largest Nissan/Infiniti owners forum on the internet. Despite all this, guess what my last purchase was.. Subaru BRZ. Oops I already gave that one away didn't I?

I bought the BRZ because it was the best combination of looks and performance in a ~$25k RWD platform available. Whereas Nissan once dominated this market.. they weren't even in the running. The 370z is too big, too heavy, too expensive and honestly.. not very nice to look at. I did feel a twinge of guilt when I strayed from Nissan to buy a Subaru.. But I told myself I'd be happy to come back when Nissan brought a serious competitor to the affordable RWD coupe market. I was genuinely excited when I heard rumor of a possible 240sx/Silvia successor. In fact, I even set up a preliminary NICO forum to start discussion on this topic.

Now we finally get some idea of what Nissan was talking about in the affordable rear wheel drive coupe category... The IDX.

The IDX is ugly. Remember when the PT Cruiser came out and people thought it was beautiful in that quirky-retro sort of way.. I thought it was ugly. Now that the novelty has worn off.. guess what.. It's really freaking ugly. That's what's going to happen with the IDX. Right now people are in love with the idea of a compact Nissan RWD platform and the styling cues that go back to Datsun 510 flavors are a novelty. But guess what.. They will not age well. The quirky look and novelty will wear off and people will realize that it's ugly.

Still.. I'm not 100% about appearances. I would drive an average to ugly car if it put a huge smile on my face and didn't empty my pocketbook. So maybe the IDX can make me happy through sheer fun-factor. I don't know all the details yet for the car. I've heard rumors of a 1.6L engine. My BRZ only has a 200 hp 2.0L engine, but it's fun enough to drive because it's light and nimble. If Nissan's engineers can work miracles like the Toyota/Subaru team did with the chassis weights and suspension settings and make this car a blast to fling around corners, then maybe it doesn't need big hp. But wait.. did someone say CVT?

If Nissan builds a compact rear wheel drive sports car and doesn't offer a manual transmission they will be the laughing stock of the automotive world. They will sell as many units as the Murano CrossCabrioDisaster.. maybe..

Seriously Nissan.. Andy Palmer, Carlos Ghosn, etc.. Stop and think about the world for a minute. Remember that people still buy cars because they are fun to drive. You can embrace the CVT and push it on the appliance cars (Altima, Versa, Rogue). I get that you own 82% of Jatco and selling CVT's is more profitable. But for the love of God.. please realize that CVT's remove anything remotely close to "FUN" from a car.

I was hoping Nissan would offer me a good excuse to trade in the BRZ in a year or two and come back to the fold.. but I can tell you already that the IDX is NOT going to make that happen.

I'll hold out for news on the upcoming Z modifications and hope they can bring the size and price down to BRZ/FRS levels...


waiting..


waiting..


please don't disappoint me again..

[Kompresshun]

You know, I really have nothing to really add to what has been stated by my friends above, because quite honestly it's simple - You're failing and you're too stubborn to realize it because you think you're too big to fail.

I left the Nissan fold last year and honestly there is STILL nothing in the current line up or on the horizon that I would have in my garage. Either it's too heavy, too ugly, too expensive, or has a CVT - most are all of those. I replaced my 99 Nissan Maxima with a Ford Five Hundred.

When it came time for us to buy a new SUV, the only thing Nissan made that fit our criteria was the Rogue, but alas - too expensive and has a CVT. It didn't even make it into the Top 5, which consisted of KIA, Hyundai, Toyota, Mazda, and Ford. We ended up with a KIA. 10,000 miles later I would not have anything different.

When it came time for me to buy a new project, even though I love this community, I bought a Mazda. It makes me smile more than any Nissan i've been in that has been made in the past 10 years.

The IDx does not impress me or excite me, because Nissan has failed to deliver so many times that it's hard to believe that they will come through with ANYTHING exciting. If the words CVT are mentioned as standard equipment on anything you label NISMO, you have failed miserably.

Change my mind. I dare you.

[WDRacing]

Everything we're all saying boils down to this...

The best cars Nissan will ever make have already been made and are available on the used market. Want something new? Buy any number of other vehicles from a manufacturer that still has horse in the race. Nissan sold their horses to the glue factory and used the profits to pump out bland mobiles that inspire as much awe as a half used bar of soap covered in a strangers pubic hair.

Prove me wrong Nissan. I triple dog dare you!

[dre1507]

We keep asking to be proven wrong, but it's been about a year now since the rumor mills had begun to spin with a possible counterattack to the siege of the ToyoBaru twins. Now that there is no longer a need for rumors, with the IDx exposing more and more of Nissan's stubborn way of thinking and ulterior motives, it's not likely that whatever makes it to the dealerships will prove us wrong. Ghosn and friends have expressed no desire to make nice with people who view driving as a hobby rather than a chore.

[OriginalWheelman]

Exactly. After 10years of driving nothing but used Nissans, my first ever new car was... A Mazda. I can't imagine buying a new Nissan. I'm considering buying an old 350z JUST because they are getting cheap and have a lot of aftermarket support. I'm still considering a lot of other cars. I no longer consider myself a Nissan enthusiast, but a Z enthusiast. Even that feels like it's fading.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I just wanted to pop in and point out that s*** like this is the reason I'm a stonehearted cynical bastard.

So thanks, Nissan. Thanks for strengthening my resolve and showing me that I've been right all along.

Thanks for supporting my horribleness with your own horribleness. Thanks for proving my slivers of faith unfounded.

Take your new IDx and Sport Sedan concept and park them where the sun never shines.

I'll keep driving my V8-powered, non-FWD, non-CVT, non-Nissan, non-economical non-appliance and smiling along the way.

Don't bother trying to get me interested anymore, because all I can muster is "they're gonna f*** it up again." And I'll be right again. Because I always am. Just like Slartibartfast.

[AZhitman]

...and THIS all from the most die-hard Nissan enthusiasts I know of.

[themadscientist]

Yeah, that happened.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/car ... t/4453239/

[2_Liter_Turbo]

I like it on GT6, ha ha

[Kompresshun]

^Just to further rub salt into the wound, yeah that.

Toyota, the brand which I considered extremely bland compared to Nissan for many, many years has pumped out yet another rear wheel drive sports car. I can't say a love the design at the moment, but I can promise it'll probably deliver more smiles while behind the wheel than anything that Nissan is going to pump out.

So that's now two new RWD sports cars that Toyota has pumped out in the last couple of years to Nissan's zero. Oh and if you want to count Lexus too, then don't forget about the LFA and then the new RC F which sports a 5.0L V8 with over 450HP. Correct me if i'm wrong, but the only thing that Infiniti even attempted exciting with their luxury brand was the G37 IPL, which added a few more measly HP and a extra accessories on the outside. All for a lot more money.



Still waiting.

[Bubba1]

You would think with so much investment in winning the F1 constructors championship that would result in something more fun for the public to drive . But then again, this is the same company that also proudly invested millions to slap an oversized company logo on a niche delta wing project that featured a friggin' Chevy motor, and has done nothing significant to the GT-R since it's intro last decade, well, except raise its MSRP, be a little more truthful about its hp figures, and brag about how quickly a professional driver laps the Nurburgring in one (which has zero relevance to an American). C'mon Nissan, wake up from your fog. We know you can build fun cars, time to start doing it.

[float_6969]

They went from building fun cars, to just trying to convince people that they build fun cars.

[Bwana]

I'm glad I took a minute to drop in today and picked this thread. Chris and Brian sum up my thoughts best. I'm still working on some of the most awesome and most successful race cars to wear Nissan and Datsun badging, but I have moved on 100% from their current offerings.

I just wanted to pop in and point out that s*** like this is the reason I'm a stonehearted cynical bastard.

So thanks, Nissan. Thanks for strengthening my resolve and showing me that I've been right all along.

Thanks for supporting my horribleness with your own horribleness. Thanks for proving my slivers of faith unfounded.

Take your new IDx and Sport Sedan concept and park them where the sun never shines.

I'll keep driving my V8-powered, non-FWD, non-CVT, non-Nissan, non-economical non-appliance and smiling along the way.

Don't bother trying to get me interested anymore, because all I can muster is "they're gonna f*** it up again." And I'll be right again. Because I always am. Just like Slartibartfast.

Everything we're all saying boils down to this...

The best cars Nissan will ever make have already been made and are available on the used market. Want something new? Buy any number of other vehicles from a manufacturer that still has horse in the race. Nissan sold their horses to the glue factory and used the profits to pump out bland mobiles that inspire as much awe as a half used bar of soap covered in a strangers pubic hair.

Prove me wrong Nissan. I triple dog dare you!

[Jesda]

They went from building fun cars, to just trying to convince people that they build fun cars.

Hah! Couldnt have said it better.

[float_6969]

I was thinking about the flying Rogue when I wrote that.

[BLKTOPS14SR]

I know people don't like Mustang's even though they gave America the first taste of small, light, well handling performance cars before others had thought about anything. But the new lighter weight 2015 Mustang will come with a 2.3L turbo 4cylinder and manual box!! I've lost all hope in Nissan years ago. When all they give us is the Z. I don't mention the GTR because normal working Americans can't even afford the up keep on one let alone the payments for it. The Mustang however, will be affordable and pure blast to drive! Have to say both Hyundai and Kia are taking chances and it's paying off.

[BLKTOPS14SR]

They went from building fun cars, to just trying to convince people that they build fun cars.

Hah! Couldnt have said it better.

Haha very well said!

[BLKTOPS14SR]

jalopnik.com/2015-ford-mustangs-turbo-4-should-have-more-than-300-h-1475619807

Possibly 300hp and 300tq for the Mustang. What's the V6 Z rated at? With two less seats.

**im not bashing Nissan totaling or saying people should buy the Mustang. Hell I drive an overweight GTO. Lol. But Nissan NEEDS to wake up. The Mustang is geared to sell in Austraila and Europe. Which honestly will hurt Nissans sales. Ford is listening to those that buy the Mustang. People wanted IRS in the back. It has it. People wanted more power out of the V8 5.0. They're getting it. European markets love 4cyl Turbo's. They're getting it and as a result side effect the enthusiast community is getting it too. The Mustang offers such a huge variety.

[unijabnx2000]

sub'd

[ralphyboy]

I haven't been in here for some time. I hopped ship to Older BMW's and I can't say I am too upset about this. I do miss my S13's though, of which I had 5 and was a hard core Nissan guy until I got sick of the rust about 5 years back. I saw the IDx and I just new I would be in that Nissan, I was downright excited. It's not even a deal killer that it's a CVT because the CVT is in theory the perfect transmission for performance. In reality I'm not sure it works out the same, and it sure as hell is not as "fun" but I would at least drive it. This whole paddle shifter thing is moronic, you're taking the performance advantage that the CVT in theory holds and throwing it out the window by limiting it to 6 or so "gears." So 6 or so is better than infinite because it "feels" cool? From what I am reading about it though, I'll not be in the market. If it manages to be FWD, I won't even bother driving it and the Toyota FR-S is a pretty good looking car really.

P.S. My best friend has a 2013 Altima with every bell and whistle, she replaced her 2003 3.5, which she replaced with her B12 Sentra, and she regrets it. So if Nissan does happen to read this, I just wanted you to know that you have built a car that has turned off a 50 year old secretary that has been a die hard Nissan owner for over 20 years from purchasing a Nissan in the future, good job lol.

P.S. S. Without a doubt the Hyundai that I drive quite a bit that is my wife's car, has an interior build quality that is up to par with the German cars of the early 2000's. I have not been in newer ones than this so I can not attest to current ones, but I can't imagine it's too far off. It's really impressive though and killed all of the other new cars, including Nissan's, that were in the low 20's. Don't knock the South Koreans is all I am saying.

[themadscientist]

This thread needs more dog box!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVXQYIZXEx8[/youtube]

[BusyBadger]

Sure thing!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-tuGOb0p0s[/youtube]

[Loki]

Here's my response: Put out an IDx NISMO with a CVT and I will make it my life's work to make it the butt of more jokes than the CrossCabriolet.

The CrossCabriolet is not the butt of any jokes. It is the joke. A bad, awful, tasteless joke that makes everyone at the party grimace and stare down into their drinks wishing they were getting a colonoscopy from Edward Scissorhands rather than having to be aware of this crossover. I don't think any car will ever leave such a bad taste in my mouth.

jalopnik.com/2015-ford-mustangs-turbo-4-should-have-more-than-300-h-1475619807

Possibly 300hp and 300tq for the Mustang. What's the V6 Z rated at? With two less seats.

It'll have slightly better numbers than that, and with a tune it can produce some really great torque.

[unijabnx2000]

If they for some reason go FWD/CVT, I'll have lost all hope and just live in the 90s when it comes to Nissan.

God the 90s were so freaking awesome for japanese cars.