KA24E Timing Cover won't budge?

[drewusmaximus]

Hi all, 1989 240sx hatchback KA24E

I have the entire front apart to replace the timing chain but, the timing cover won't budge! It won't come off. I read some article which said to use a pry bar or hammer and screwdriver but, they don't work. Is there something I missing? I sthere a special spot I am supposed to pry?
I would like to get the chain, tensioner, and guides on and button everything up as soon as possible. i would appreciate all advice.

Thanks in advance!

[centralcoaster33]

What instructions are you using? FSM? When I search, I find this article...
sohc-ka24e-timing-chain-replacement-t220814.html

It mentions a couple of "hidden" bolts. Does that help? If not, then what step are you on?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I was going to say, you probably have a hidden bolt or 2.

[drewusmaximus]

There was the upper bolt on the intake side, hidden in the back that I didn't see. Removed that, used the hammer claw to pry it off. The head gasket is fine too.
I have TDC in place on the cam and crank shafts. Replaced the cam gear, guides, chain, tensioner and all O rings and seals. I'm now cleaning up the mating surfaces but, what a PITA! It's difficult removing the old silicone. My only concern is the shaft for the distributor and oil pump. I clearly remember the way it was positioned but, it fell out when I pulled off the oil pump. I'm worried the splines on the shaft won't line up with the crankshaft splines. It should line up since the crankshaft hasn't moved at all. Theoretically, I should be able to slide the shaft in the same position it slid out.

Any suggestions before I pop the timing cover back in? I threw on assembly lube on the chain. I blew out the oil passage for the tensioner with carb cleaner. I put locktite on the chain guides bolts. I cleaned the interior and exterior of the timing cover with brake cleaner.

Thanks in advance

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I usually spin the engine by hand with the valve cover off just to make sure everything is kosher before I put it back on.

[drewusmaximus]

before you put the dist and oil pump gear back on? Wouldn't that affect timing? I assume since the cam and crankshafts have not moved I should be able to slide the gear back in its normal position. I should slide right in like a glove, given the right position I slide it in.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Is the dizzy and oil pump integrated into the valve cover on the SOHC? I can't remember (I hardly ever work on them).

Also, are they a true gear, or is it just one of those cylinders with a slot cut in it? If its a true gear, you may have problems getting everything lined back up. If its just the slotted type, then its easy peasy.

[drewusmaximus]

The oil pump gear is in the timing cover and connects to the oil pump and the distributor. Since the crankshaft gear spline hasn't moved the oil pump gear should slide in the exact same way it slid out with no adjustments needed, since nothing has changed when the gear slid out. Wishful thinking and hoping... LOL

[drewusmaximus]

Update. I am ready to mount the timing chain cover but, I noticed when test mounting it slides on very snug. My concern is, when I apply sealer on the mating surface that meets with the oil pan, the sealant will be pushed off the surface because of the tight squeeze.
I've read several write ups and none explain in detail how to slide in the cover witholut affecting the sealant where the cover and oil pan meet.

So, do I drop the oil pan, mount the timing cover then mount the oil pan?

Or, is there a way to somehow mount the cover without moving the oil pan?

If I move the oil pan, that means I have to reseal the oil pan as well, right?

Thanks in advance!

[drewusmaximus]

So I decided I'm going to drop the oil pan, which requires to remove the braces and sway bar, an jack the engine up a little. My problem is I have two jacks on the cross member because my frame rails are weak as well as the front jack points. There's no room for me to fit under and pull the pan while the jack stands are in the way. I have ramps but I can't roll the car onto the ramps because I do not want to affect timing and the timing cover is not on yet.
I would like to put the front wheels on the ramps but, not sure how. the fronts wheels are sagging since there are no supports under them.
Should I jack up the lower control arm to bring the wheel high enough to slide the ramp under the wheel?
Any ideas? BTW.. I am doing this on my driveway.

Thanks in advance...

[centralcoaster33]

I wouldn't drop the oil pan. That's just me. I've don't timing chain cover, twice, once with pulled engine and removed oil pan, once on the car and I did not drop the pan, just slid it in. There isn't that much sliding that I recall and you could put your gasket on both sides, though it won't have the fancy bead. It did not leak either time. For what you propose, an engine hoist is best... then you add pulling off your hood to the list. A crumby idea (yeah, I have those also) would be to put your jack under the bellhousing of the transmission and use that to support your engine. I know, it's a crumby idea. Maybe someone else has better.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

You could put it in neutral and just winch the car up the ramps, or use a come-along.

[drewusmaximus]

this is a driveway project. I don't have the equipment to lift the engine except for a jack to jack it up by the bellhousing. I also want to pull the pan so I can inspect the rod bearings. I'm thinking of just replacing them while I'm down there. But, the fit of the timing cover is tight. I know if I slide the cover on the n=mating surfaces where the cover and pan meet will push off the gasket material and there won't be a good seal. So, what I would like to do is drop the pan, put on the timing cover, replace the engine and transmission mounts, inspect the rod bearings and replace if necessary. Then add sealant to the pan and bolt it back up.

I'm assuming if I jack up the lower control arms it should rise the wheel high enough to slide the ramps under and not raise the entire car since the weight of the car outweighs the strength of the spring. The wheels are about 10 inches off the ground. I need about another 4 inches to make the clearing.

[drewusmaximus]

So I tried to jack up the wheel from the lower control arm but, the entire front end lifted off the jack instead of just the wheel. I think what I will do is put some bricks under the opposite wheel and jack up the opposite control arm. that way the opposing side of the car doesn't slide off the other jack it's resting on. Once the wheel is on the ramp, I can then do the other side without worrying the car will slide off the jacks since the opposing wheel is secured by the ramp.

I hope it works...

[drewusmaximus]

Update.. I basically have the oil pan off.(Worse job in effin history!) I got the bolts off the pick up tube and the 12mm bolt on the opposite side of the pick up tube but, for some reason the pan won't slide out. I jacked the engine up which gave me more room to access the pick up tube bolts but, the pan won't slide out. The p[ick tube dropped in the pan and the sway bar is dropped so, I can't see what is preventing the pan from sliding out.

Is there something I forgot to remove? All the oil pan bolts are off and the pan is separated from the block.
Do I need to jack the engine up higher??

Thanks in advance

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Yeah, you most likely have to jack the engine up higher to get more clearance.

[drewusmaximus]

I haven't loosened the engine mounts. Not sure if I can based on the angle. Not sure how to reach the bolts. I've read articles but, none are specific on how to loosen them.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

You can just unbolt the brackets from the engine, or the top of the mounts from the bracket.
The nuts that hold the mount to the subframe are a f*** to try to get to though.

[drewusmaximus]

I know. I even bought universal joints to get a better angle but I have the header in the way. Also, I have new motor mounts I want to install.So, I can unbolt the mount form the block side but, I'm still stuck on how to remove from the subframe. Maybe it might be a little easier to access if I unbolt the mount form the block. That will allow me to raise the engine a bit higher to be able to access the mount from below. The current mounts are shot and I want to kill 8 birds with one stone. LOL

So, I'll try to unbolt from the block side and see what happens.

[drewusmaximus]

Ok. So I have the timing chain, guides, tensioner, oil pump, timing cover, and distributor back on. I bolted the thermostat housing back on as well, but, there's something square behind the thermostat housing, under the power steering pump with 4 bolts that I cannot get to. I have two bolts on but, I cannot reach the two rear to screw on the bolts. I believe that part belong to the cooling system. Any idea how to install the two bolts from the front??

Thanks

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Is there a hole in the pulley that will allow you to access the bolts if you just rotate it?

[drewusmaximus]

I haven't bolted the power steering pump yet and I pulled the thermostat housing off for space. The alternator bracket is not on as well. My fingers can hold the bolt in place but, no room to turn the bolts. I would hate to pull the timing cover off again just to bolt that box onto it. UGH... Frustrating because I'm almost done and I want to start driving the car (if all goes well), now that the weather is good.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I hate that feeling. When you have to undo some s*** you just did

[centralcoaster33]

I think that's the PCV housing stuff. It is a PITA to work around there. You might gain some access by removing your throttle body, removing the alternator and it's bracket, and moving the coolant lines out of the way. There are a few bolts in there, but I vaguely recall getting into in the past and I certainly did not have the timing cover off. I did a google search "240sx pcv" and went to images. The 7th photo is from Zilvia for an oil catch article and shows the bolts clearly.

[drewusmaximus]

I know this is a few months old but, I want to give an update for those who helped me immensely.
I got the new timing chain, tensioner, and engine mounts put on. Car started right up, which means I did the timing correctly. Phew... No leaks. No overheating. Holds idle at roughly 750 but..... I still get that rattle when i rev the car. Doesn't matter what RPMs I am at.
I checked the bearings when I had the oil pan off and things seem fine down there. It sounds like a lifter or valve spring.

Should I just buy a new head?
Should I try to rebuild the head?
Should I drive it until the engine blows?

My son in law said he can pick me up an SR20 but, i woudl have to drive to North Carolina to pick it up! And I'm in upstate NY!! 12 hours!! Yikes! And I never done a swap. I don't even know if I would be able to use the same transmission from the KA to the SR.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[centralcoaster33]

Congrats on the startup! I love it when that happens. I'll let someone else comment on the persistent rattle because I don't know what to recommend. As much as you've been into this engine, I think you might be able to handle a swap. There's lots of articles and write-ups about this. The transmissions are similar, but have a different bell-housing to mate to the engine block. You can swap the bell-housing by itself, or get a complete SR transmission.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Could also swap to a dual overhead cam KA. Less stuff to go wrong. Same transmission. They are super cheap too.

[drewusmaximus]

I don't know if it's cheaper to just buy a used head and throw it on, or buy a KA24de, pull the 24e out, disconnect the transmission from the 24e, connect the transmission to the DE and throw it in the car, all on the driveway I as well need an ECU from a DE?

It seems logical for me to swap out the head, given the engine has a new chain, guides, and tensioner.
Thoughts?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Yeah... Have you checked valve lash as well?

[drewusmaximus]

I don't know how to check the valve lash. I've tried to find info on replacing the lifters or valves on the KA24e while the head is still on the block but I can't find anything. Which is why I feel I'm better off buying a used head.