KA24DER Intercooler Questions

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superDorifto
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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby superDorifto » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:24 pm

I actually thought about calling up excessive to see if I could use one of their cast uppers as a base rather than hacking my extra manifold apart with a cut off saw.

Per youre description, I am completely upside down cost wise in this little science experiment. And the core I chose in in no way idealized...its sized per amx cfm flow at a 14psi boost condition on a 105 degree day at redline for the KA. As for how the runner geometry, and the plenum under the SC plate affect that ideal flow...Meh, I don't know.

I am just trying to construct this thing without cutting too many corners. We should be able to pull some back end data out as I'm goign to use my AEM to monitor Air Temps before and after the core, as well as the intercooler's coolant temp.

I wish I had conections to some one at a casting house to make a proper manifold with runners, stacks, and a place for the core, similar to the M3 set up I posted a few pages back.


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superDorifto
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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby superDorifto » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:27 pm

klattr1 wrote:I daily drove my KA24DER powered S14 for over 1.5 yrs and it was definitely more fun than any sub 350whp 240sx setup I've ever experienced. Engine response is great and feels like you have a small V8 in the car.
Image
I have been drooling over that very dyno sheet over on KA-t.org...I sold my 04 GTO when I picked up my current 240. I still miss the grunt of the LS1 - with the exception that that graph goes a few grand higher, it liooks damn similar to a gen III GM v-8...will def be fun. :biggrin:

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superDorifto
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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby superDorifto » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:23 pm

moso wrote:Im not sure im picking up what your putting down
I was thinking of locating the core like this.

Image

Nothing is to scale, and the core will need to be at an angle to keep from having a right angle and oval ports at the out plenum.

Finally had some free time to start hacking the old plenums off this cooler, and WOW did I underestimate the build quality of this little Chinese cooler. The damn plenum wall was a .250" thick in some places...my little Harbor Freight Cut Off Saw couldn't handle the pressure and gave up the ghost. I think it just overheated, but I finished the task by hand with my trusty Dewalt Angle Grinder.

GREATEST TOOL EVER. Its like the Ice Cold Beer of the tool world...makes everything all better.

I also had to take a first aid break when a hot shard of Aluminium found its way past my safety glasses into my eye...likely I used to be an EMT and had sterile eyewash...a trip to the ER would a ruined the night.

Heres some progress pics.

A perfectly good intercooler...
Image
It almost cost the sight in my left eye...
Image
View of the business end of the core - pleease excuse the roughness, I wanted to be sure not to nick the core and cut the entire thing essentially by hand with the angle grinder. I am going to smooth out the cut with a bench grinder and leave plenty of space for welding without affecting the core.
Image
Size comparison...
Image
Side view
Image

I need to make the welding jig this week, chop the other side and start mocking up the new plenum. Things are going much slow than originally planned, but I am in no rush to f*** this up.

Another view of the business end through the SC adapter plate...
Image

Klattr1,
I also checked with Xcessive, and I can buy just the upper section of their manifold to try and simplify the fab. Not sure If I want to incur the extra cost, but its an option for others out there that may be thinking of a similar project.

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Razi
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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby Razi » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:26 pm

Very cool!
I'm looking forward to the finished product!

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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby Seishuku » Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:52 pm

Yea.. Abrasive chop saw + Aluminum = Bad idea.
Carbide blade would have been a much better choice.

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superDorifto
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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby superDorifto » Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Seishuku wrote:Yea.. Abrasive chop saw + Aluminum = Bad idea.
Carbide blade would have been a much better choice.
I admit that I don't know much about a lot of things, but why was using this tool such a failure. I've cut 3/8ths steel plate with this saw before...Cutting steel this saw is a champ, but the aluminum seemed to tear and chunk off rather than cut or grind away. The intercooler never even got hot, but it throw out a great deal of sharp hot metal fragments, kinda like the one that ended up in my eye.

Are you suggesting a carbide blade would've worked better? :confused:

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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby Seishuku » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:37 pm

Aluminum when it get hot will soften and smear, and unfortunately will stick to abrasive devices (cut off wheels, grinding wheels, sanding drums, etc), even a carbide burr will get gummed up with aluminum with out a lube of some kind.

With a carbide blade, it'll cleanly cut and remove material quicker and cooler, so the aluminum has less of a chance to get stuck on the cutter.
Even better would be a cold saw.

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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby PapaSmurf2k3 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:16 pm

superDorifto wrote:
Seishuku wrote:Yea.. Abrasive chop saw + Aluminum = Bad idea.
Carbide blade would have been a much better choice.
I admit that I don't know much about a lot of things, but why was using this tool such a failure. I've cut 3/8ths steel plate with this saw before...Cutting steel this saw is a champ, but the aluminum seemed to tear and chunk off rather than cut or grind away. The intercooler never even got hot, but it throw out a great deal of sharp hot metal fragments, kinda like the one that ended up in my eye.

Are you suggesting a carbide blade would've worked better? :confused:
Aluminum is non-ferrous, unlike steel... which is why abrasive cutters don't work as well on aluminum as they do on steel. Saws and mills and stuff work great on aluminum.

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superDorifto
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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby superDorifto » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:45 am

I would liken it to cutting hard butter with sand paper....like I said you could feel the metal yeild and just sorta chunck away...

One of the one tools that I dont have is a really good hacksaw. Now I have an excuse to get one to cut the other side. I also decided to remake my adapter plate. The one I have is obviously a copy of a copy and has some questionable threads. I found a local machine shop with a water jet that will cut me a plate if I give them an .xdf file for pretty cheap ($50 plus whatever the aluminum plate costs). I really like the idea of incorporating the ACC and FICV into the plate as well like the KA24DER kit...

So I'm gonna try and do the same. I'm most likely going to have the same shop cut me a couple extra SC plates/alternator brackets as well as some exhaust and intake flanges. Allway good to have a couple extra flanges if i want to take the motor in a different direction.

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superDorifto
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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby superDorifto » Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:47 pm

Change of plans again.


Per Ryan's comment,

I got intouch with the guys at excessive - and they gave me a price for just the runner section of their KA manifold. It hurt my wallet. I didn't go with the Xcessive intake runner section becasue the price quoted for just the runners didn't make much sense. I did however pick up a poorly made chinese knock-off that should serve as a suitable starting point.

Pics to come....

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moso
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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby moso » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:11 pm

I'm still looking forward to seeing how this turns out. My kader project has hit the back burner for now while I finish up a 22re megasquirt build and install. Unfortunately I can only have one project at a time. Which intake did you pick up, how much money was it, and do you have any photos of it before you cut it all to hell?

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superDorifto
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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby superDorifto » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:34 pm

1) Godspeed (Meh, overal its not terrible - def inferior to the Xcessive unit, but still pretty nice)

2) around $150

3) it is not cut up, I am going to use the runner section as is, because I am remote mounting my filter, I have a bit more room to play with on the side of the engine. I am thinking that clocking the SC slightly will let me make the plenums very simple,and very easily. I dont have any pics of the fab work, but will in the next few weeks.

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superDorifto
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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby superDorifto » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:01 pm

Well,

I'm sorry to say that my involvement in this little experiment is over...

I came across a good deal on a partially complete T28R turbo kit and pounced. In the meantime, I sold all of my DER stuff. It actually worked out pretty well, as I'm able to reuse nearly everything but the supercharger kit itself. I do feel strognly that this intercooler idea will work. If anyone else wants to pic up the torch, I'm willing to let the cut water to air intercooler go for real cheap - I just want it to go to somebody that will use it.

pic from a previous post:
Image

the new owner pays shipping + whatever we work out via PM for cost (It was ~ $150 plus shipping new) and picks up on this thread where I left off...

For reference, the core is 9x3.5x3.5, one of the end tanks has been cut off flush as shown above.

Hopefully we can all see this little project come to a close.

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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby PapaSmurf2k3 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:16 pm

Damn, if I already didn't have a working system, I'd do it.

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superDorifto
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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby superDorifto » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:14 am

Gotta pass the torch....someone has to finish this...

message lengthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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moso
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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby moso » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:29 am

I really wish I could, but im working for a intercooled remote mount m90. I will ask around tho, I really want to see this finished.

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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby WDRacing » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:10 am

moso wrote:I really wish I could, but im working for a intercooled remote mount m90. I will ask around tho, I really want to see this finished.
M90 or 112 is definitely the way to go. Far less heat and the ability to run more boost.

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superDorifto
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Re: KA24DER Intercooler Questions

Postby superDorifto » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:09 pm

I posted the compressor curve on KA-t a few weeks ago, with an M90 you really saty in the sweet spot for the entire pull, and you still have room for the compressor to keep pushing air at red line...pretty much the perfect sized SC for a KA.


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