KA24de 200hp?

[Bigvinnie]

uhhh i think it would take more thn jus that to make 200./header/exaust/cams/and cam timing would not be enough for 200. mabey like 160-165

Actually it isn't very hard for the KA to make 210CHP on stock 9.6 CR. It's just a matter of how much money you are willing to spend. In order to make those numbers you will need every possible bolt on. JWT cams, JWT ecu reprogram, and free mods like removal of the secondary butterfly's. Total cost will cost around $1700. I'm leaving some dyno's so that you can see comparative diferences. None of these engines did a cam and ecu combo, which is probably the biggest way to make the best improvements.

Jim wolfe ecu, performance header (unknown type), and G reddy exhaust

AEM EMS, DC sports header, and AEM intake

(PDM racing) CAMS, header, exhaust, aluminum pulley, Intake

[HolyShiznit]

*Looks at his turbo, looks at his nitrous kit*

Who says turbo + nitrous isn't safe? Do a wet shot and your fine. Stock bottom ends will break, built bottom ends will break. ANYTHING can break. *shrug*

[Ichi-Go]

its not really that hard to get 300 with a ka.

I meant NA .

[sunnys14]

i dont think spending about $1700 will get you a good, long lasting turbo kit that will last as long as a good NA motor.

[Dattebayo]

I say this every time and I dont think anyone listens:

Put SOHC KA pistons in a DOHC KA motor, instant ~20hp increase, more power. Get a intake and exhaust, more cheap power. There ya go.

[tonynalli]

add some cams, fuel management, ecu upgrade/mabey a port and polish/fpr...the list could go on, i seriously think that people under estimate the power and the ability of the KA,

[Ni2s4s0aSnX]

I think you all misunderstood me, I said that I don't think that nitrous or a turbo should be the first mod someone puts on their car. And you can't tell me that a clutch on a transmission that's designed to handle 150 horsepower is going to perform the same on a with 100 more horspower added.

[InsanityInc]

I say this every time and I dont think anyone listens:

Put SOHC KA pistons in a DOHC KA motor, instant ~20hp increase, more power. Get a intake and exhaust, more cheap power. There ya go.

Yeah, the high compression pistons are a must for a serious engine build. They make attaining 200whp NA pretty easy. Trying to do it with a 9.5:1 CR is like an uphill battle.

[Dattebayo]

And you can't tell me that a clutch on a transmission that's designed to handle 150 horsepower is going to perform the same on a with 100 more horspower added.

Who said anything about using a stock clutch for 250+ HP? Are you daft? Never in a million years would that work!

I would seriously think about what style of clutch you buy to handle the power (it takes about 90% of the abuse unless you buy a un-sprung). There are hundreds or even thousands of members here with motors pushing 250 or higher RWHP that have no problems with the stock trans. (other than the ratios... )

[Ni2s4s0aSnX]

Exactly, sort of.(2BN_S13) I said that the clutch and such wouldn't handle it. I never said the transmission itself. I said you'd need modifications to the transmission, clutch, etc..

[:: orion ::]

I say this every time and I dont think anyone listens:

Put SOHC KA pistons in a DOHC KA motor, instant ~20hp increase, more power. Get a intake and exhaust, more cheap power. There ya go.

20hp, no way.

THe BMW guys have done WAY more N/A tuning in the older 4-cyl 3-series then us S-chassis guys have so far...and the generally accepted HP increase from raised compression is 4% for every point bump in comression.

So going from 9.5:1 to 11:1 ("street" build-up) would net you around 6% more RWHP, all else being equal.

So if you were making 160rwhp, then you'd gain ~9rwhp from a pretty decent change in static compression.

With a little fine tuning, you may pick up 11-12rwhp...but "instant ~20hp"...not so.

- Brian

[InsanityInc]

20hp, no way.

THe BMW guys have done WAY more N/A tuning in the older 4-cyl 3-series then us S-chassis guys have so far...and the generally accepted HP increase from raised compression is 4% for every point bump in comression.

So going from 9.5:1 to 11:1 ("street" build-up) would net you around 6% more RWHP, all else being equal.

So if you were making 160rwhp, then you'd gain ~9rwhp from a pretty decent change in static compression.

With a little fine tuning, you may pick up 11-12rwhp...but "instant ~20hp"...not so.

- Brian

Why in the world would a component that directly increases torque be rated in a horsepower % improvement? That makes no sense. Any figure for horsepower % increase will change depending on where the engine is making peak power, since what's actually changing is the torque.

[SimpleEnigma]

The transmission model number for the 240sx is FS5W71C. go to z31.com and read what they say about that trans. the only trans better than the one we got is the one nissan put in the '90-'96 300zx TT's. but to add further comment, no, the stock clutch wont hold over 200 hp. my clutch complains at stock hp. do all basic bolt-ons, KA-E pistons, cams, pulleys, ignition system, p&p on cylinder head, 70mm TB, ECU reflash. you should be able to get somewhere close to 200hp, but you also should at least upgrade your clutch or you will burn it up in a heartbeat. and for NA apps the transmission will be good for more power than you can get to it, as long as you dont complete abuse the hell out of it.

[:: orion ::]

Why in the world would a component that directly increases torque be rated in a horsepower % improvement? That makes no sense. Any figure for horsepower % increase will change depending on where the engine is making peak power, since what's actually changing is the torque.

I was only using that as an example...it's not a formula, more of a ballpark number for illustration.

Roughly 4% is what I've seen/read concerning the M30 BMW "S14" motor...it has 2.3L displacement, makes peak TQ at ~4750 and peak HP at ~6750...so it's pretty similar to a modified KA24DE with S13 cams (or a little better) and your regular bolt-ons.

And guys have done TONS of N/A tuning on these, as compared to KA motors...so while it won't translate directly, it will show trends.

...and the trend that it shows is that you'll gain less peak HP (I say "peak HP" so we know what RPM we're discussing) from higher compression than everyone seems to believe.

- Brian

[Dattebayo]

I was actually referring to the result when a exhaust, intake and compression bump are all added together. Sorry for the confusion and bad wording.

I would also like to put forward that I said ~20, not 20.

Getting that out of the way, When I applied this particular mod to my old KA24DE, I found many other options that are just as cheap that gave even more power. For instance, the company I bought the pistons from also sold a version that was rated 9.1 to 1 for sohc.

This piston, when applied to my dohc motor with a slight bore, would net close to 12 to 1 compression and maybe burn a little oil when it was getting pushed hard.

[InsanityInc]

I was only using that as an example...it's not a formula, more of a ballpark number for illustration.

Roughly 4% is what I've seen/read concerning the M30 BMW "S14" motor...it has 2.3L displacement, makes peak TQ at ~4750 and peak HP at ~6750...so it's pretty similar to a modified KA24DE with S13 cams (or a little better) and your regular bolt-ons.

And guys have done TONS of N/A tuning on these, as compared to KA motors...so while it won't translate directly, it will show trends.

...and the trend that it shows is that you'll gain less peak HP (I say "peak HP" so we know what RPM we're discussing) from higher compression than everyone seems to believe.

- Brian

I'd bet the cam timing and R:S are different though, and raising compression has interesting effects on cylinder fill as well. It may well be that raising the compression on the torque-oriented KA may help more than normal by making the stock cams get closer to an ideal intake closing point. But, the fact remains that there are KAs with high compression pistons and other mods making over 200whp, and the raised compression is a good chunk of the increased power.

[pregmantis]

insanity, nitrous is horrendous to engines but is it horrendous enough? I dont think so, just dont hit it below 3000rpm. heat spikes arent bad its hot enough spikes that are bad and its not nos that burns pistons and valves its bad airfuel mixture.

[pregmantis]

2bn, did you have to do any piston clearancing for your valves? any knocking?

[Dattebayo]

2bn, did you have to do any piston clearancing for your valves? any knocking?

The SOHC pistons are a direct fit (requiring the SOHC attachment parts, of course) onto the DOHC system, the only difference that I could see was that the wrist pin had a lower connection on the piston (by a few MM's) and the pistons were flat-topped. The lower connection that the wrist pin had moved the top surface higher toward the valves as well as the absence of the dish the DOHC pistons had. The raise in compression would have some serious problems ONLY IF the timing was pretty far off. I mean that you have a clearance that will tolerate any performance tuning that you would like minus any cam that would raise the lift farther than mid performance cams. I had PDM stage 2 cams at the time, so I dont know how the lift translated ino the equation. Guys?!?? help me out! I was fine at stock timing though...

As far as knocking, I never experienced it because I always used high octane fuel. This is a must for any high-compression motor as detonation can become a problem with high head temps.

The strangest thing was that the exhaust gas temps lowered by ~20-50 degrees depending on how hard I was running it. I guess the kinetic energy transference had something to do with it as far as I can tell...

[pregmantis]

Do ka's vary in rod lenght? All the KA's i've seen have the same rod length but i heard that the DE rod is stronger.

[All_Motor_KA]

Honastlly it's not that simple to put SOHC pistons into a DE. If you want to do it the right way and not some ghetto rig, you need to notch them for the oil squirters and re balance them. Easilly cost 50 to 100 bucks each piston. I've looked into it :-D. And nitrouse doesn't increase cylinder temps. The only thing that would increase temps would be an engine running too lean under nitrouse. In my opinion nitrouse is more cost effective then a turbo simple because you can find a complete wet kit system on the street or on ebay for 200 to 300 bucks, sometimes less. Plus nitrouse isn't too complicate a system to install yourself. Turbo your car might be out for a couple of days. And I would say with the right tuning nitrouse is safer. With boostm YOU'RE ALWAYS BOOSTING. I've talk to many people about nitrouse from the race community. They all say the same thing. If you don't know what you're doing nitrouse can ruin your engine, but if you do it right the pros will outway the cons. Just my 2 cents....

[4gotn1]

[QUOTE=All_Motor_KA]Honastlly it's not that simple to put SOHC pistons into a DE. If you want to do it the right way and not some ghetto rig, you need to notch them for the oil squirters and re balance them. Easilly cost 50 to 100 bucks each piston. I've looked into it :-D.QUOTE]

someone correct me if im wrong, but dont the oil squirters go into the block? and if your putting sohc pistons into a dohc then you dont need to worry about modifying anything for oil squirters. if swaping a dohc head on to a sohc bottom end then you might want to looking having them machined into the block...

turbo's you can turn down the boost, and not boost the motor. u can also shift before boost comes on. so no your not always boosting. nitrous can be safe when use properly, but can be just as risky as a turbo. the risks are equal for detonation and something terrible to go wrong. the pro's and con's are really the same.

[87supramart]

I've ran both and neither has blown up my stock kaE with 160+ miles

I ran my turbo at the begining of summer at 8psi, and i have just recently switched over to the bottle. A basic zex dry kit running a 55 shot for now (75 shot at Kilcare dragstrip this Thursday!). Im on my 3rd bottle wich i just got filled at Jegs for $4 a lb. (kinda high prices in Ohio). I like the bottle more mostly because i can use it when i want. I hated the 10mpg on my turbo. Blow off valves are fun but so is a purge.

The zex kit cost $300, $93 for a zex purge. And even at that, kits on e-bay are going for cheaper.

Im running some crappy ngk plugs that ive had in my motor for 2 years, 0 advance, on 93 octane, and my motor is just as tight as before, and my plugs are spotless

I think nitrous would be a good start, but as with everything, thats just from my own experience, and it's only my opinion. I only have it to beat those mustang 5.0's!!!!

Oh yeah, and my stock transmission, clutch etc. has taken both with ease. Even boosting in second and dropping the clutch hasn't broken it yet. But remember,either stock or not, your clutch is going to go out eventually!!

[deviousKA]

Sohc pistons do not have to be clearanced for use in a DE with oil squirters.

[thekage]

I have never heard of anyone getting as bad as 10mpg with a turbo. What size injectors were you using?? What kind of tuning did you do with it?

[87supramart]

plugged egr, 8:1 fmu, and no oxygen sensor. I know, there was my problems right there.

[babowc]

YEA it was definetly the Ford GT with 550. but i live in a rich part of town so its not uncommon to see ferraris LAmborghinis, porshces, vipers, ive seen maseratis, maybachs, and i think 1 ENZO

what the,...which part of richmond VA do you live in?i lived there for about 4 years, i've yet seen hardly any towns where those exotics you've mentioned drive around very commonly..richmond = not rich. period.

anyways, some of the info you guys are blabbering out... idiodic

nitrous is good to a certain point.. i've read somewhere.. i forget where.n20 and FI might do the same thing (i.e: increase hp), but once you spray the n20, its gone. FI stays there.

stop being shallow trying to beat mustang 5.0 or whatever and trying to go the easy way to "beat" them for 10+- seconds.

[s13rb25det]

why would some one even try to race a ford gt with a stock 240sx!! do they just want to lose!!! the dealership I work at has one of those things and they are unbelievable!!! I have taken a few rides in it and all I can say is it is AWSOME!!!! my swaped s13 with a rb25det could run 12 sec 1/4 mile times and it felt like a geo metro compared this!! if this guy was talking about a gt mustang you will probably need more power than 200hp! unless the car is complety stripped! I use to hate ford cars but it seems that they have gone back to there roots when it comes to styling and performance, the new mustang is a very nice looking car, it doesnt look like the nasty looking 90s models!! they look like spaceships!! the new mustang has the great looking 68 fastback mustang look which I think is one of the most bad*** cars ever!! the same goes to the ford gt, if you see the new gt next to a old model gt40 you can hardly tell the difference! besides the fact that it sits 44in high instead of 40, and I think these 2 cars are the best thing that ford has done in a long time!!!!

[babowc]

agreed.. the new mustangs looks nice.. but i still dotn like them

[Dattebayo]

Sohc pistons do not have to be clearanced for use in a DE with oil squirters.

You see, thats what I thought. I didnt remember having to do that at the machine shop when I took the block there for testing and opinions.

Im gathering that you have done this setup alot in your past so you would know for sure.