It's Official: G37 Trounces BMW’s 335i

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Exactly. It seems like the Infinity's recalls are rather minor compared to bigass ones with the Bimmer like fuel pumps, overheating oil, and transmissions. Those are HUGE problems to have in a car. If I had to choose losing my passenger side heated seat and power mirror, or overheating a motor, not being able to shift (granted, I would never get the auto), or some fuel pump problem, you better beleive I'd chose a heated seat/power mirror/ flickering brake light or whatever problem.

Statistics on recalls don't mean jack without the statistics on the severity of the problem.

[Former_240_s14]

Exactly. It seems like the Infinity's recalls are rather minor compared to bigass ones with the Bimmer like fuel pumps, overheating oil, and transmissions. Those are HUGE problems to have in a car. If I had to choose losing my passenger side heated seat and power mirror, or overheating a motor, not being able to shift (granted, I would never get the auto), or some fuel pump problem, you better beleive I'd chose a heated seat/power mirror/ flickering brake light or whatever problem.

Statistics on recalls don't mean jack without the statistics on the severity of the problem.

Very good point, but keep in mind this fuel pump issue was only on vehicles built to March Production. Since then BMW has axed the old fuel pump supplier (Simens) and has hired Bosch to take care of producing the fuel pumps.

Rubin

[joeygott]

MOTORTREND's reputation was dealt a HUGE BLOW. The entire automotive industry was shocked that MT published this article. I got feedback from several insiders at different car companies and journalist in the field about this. Let me explain why.1- Infiniti "PROCURED" the BMW for the test. I've been reading 3 different car magazines on a weekly basis for 20 years. How often do you see the a car company bring the competition with them. MT was ok with that! Bad mistake.2- Infiniti isn't stupid. There is a measureable (I'm being politically correct here) difference in performance between the 2 cars. BMW is faster, period, so INfniti brings a car to the test that they know has mechanical problems. How do they know this, because they did the same test for EDMUNDS and got the same result. The car got hot during testing and went into limp mode. How do you beat a bigger, strong, faster, smoother, better trained fighter in hand to hand combat? You fight him when he has a broken leg!!! The reputation of Infiniti has been tarnished and the only ones that refuse to hold them accoutable are die hard INFINITI owners that are too loyal to see the truth. 3- The BMW that INFINITI brought to the test was an early model automatic and BMW didn't install oil coolers on the early model automatics. They have since corrected that and retrofitted the first few months production that went out without them. So the car gets hot, goes into Limp mode, Infiniti wins because the competitor got hot and the ECU put the motor into limp mode. That is a CROCK. You can blame BMW all you want about putting the car out without the oil cooler, and you would be right. They deserved what they got, I agree there, but INFINITI came out of this way worse.Infiniti was dishonest with the public, and with MT by doing this. They couldn't fight a fair fight since they had lost to the 335 so many other times that they had to resort to this. This is a fact, and I've confirmed this with SEVERAL high level people in the automotive industry, but it was pretty obvious when I read the article that something wasn't right.

I'm an INFINITI owner (and LOVE it) and considering the new G37 at the time the article came out. I had already read at least 5 other comparos that all favored the 335, some by a wide margin. So when I saw the headlines, THE KING IS DEAD, I got excited and though, finally, Infiniti did it!Well, instead they embarrased me, themselves, and lost a tremendous amount of credibility in the automotive world. My contacts said it didn't suprise them at all, that the CEO of Nissan/INfiniti is a "WHATEVER IT TAKES" type of guy. He applies that philosophy to manufacturer/production costs too, which is why Nissan has been dropping in all the QUALITY reports the last few years.

The BMW is the better car- Better performance (acceleration, handling, brakes), better warranty (including maintenance for 50k), better seats, better and more refined ride, MUCH better clutch engagement, 6spd vs 5spd transmission, MUCH better back seat (more leg and head room, ac vents, arm rest, map lights, courtesy lights, etc), and most of all, averages 3+ mpg better fuel economy. It's also 5-7k more so it should be better!

INFINITI is a better bang for the buck- nicer interior, great powertrain warranty, solid performance.

If you look at any of the consumer sites, JD POWER, CONSUMER REPORTS, etc. The infiniti g35/g37 and bmw 3 series score very evenly, very good across the board. Both are recommended with JD power giving the edge to BMW.

And before you start knocking the oil cooler issue too much, let's not forget about the MAJOR problems people have been experiencing on the G35's. Hundreds of engines have failed due to internal OIL leak causing the engine to BURN up all the oil and cook the motor. NISSAN/INFINITI havne't acknowleged the problem yet, and there are HUNDRED if not THOUSANDS more that will be affected in future months/years. Remember, this problem isn't on the first year model, it's on 2006's too. And what about the tire scalloping problem causing tremendous road noise (tire roar) and requiring premature replacement of tires, very expensive. There is a class action suit against Nissan and any day, they will file the one against INFINITI for the same problem.

So, upon hearing all of this and spending DOZENS of hours talking to people in the industry (NOT BMW), I decided to consider the 335. I drove the G35, read tons of reviews on the G37 (all very positive) and then drove the 335. I'm not kidding when I tell you the difference was shocking. It wasn't even close for me. Everything I read was true + some.The torque in that twin turbo motor just made it perform like a European V8. The car has great pickup from 1800 rpm in about any gear WITHOUT DOWNSHIFTING. It's really incredible.Then, I looked into MODIFYING the motor and found out that with a simple ECU flash or piggy back system, the car is as faster or faster than adding a turbo to the G35 (which cost around $8000 for all parts and labor). And when you mod a G35, you void all warranties. When you do a piggy back or ECU flash on the 335, you don't (unless you take it into the dealer with the piggy back on, but I'm getting a DINAN flash and have confirmed with 2 local BMW dealers it does NOT void any warranty). Also, the G37 has such high compression, it will be more expensive and much more difficult to modify than the G35. So....in the BMW 335, you have a SUPER FAST world class car, with full warranties, and will all the refinement and reliability of a stock production car. It just became a NO CONTEST, so I bought one. 9 months after coming out, the 335 Coupe is still selling at MSRP all over the country. That should tell you something.

[audtatious]

MOTORTREND's reputation was dealt a HUGE BLOW. The entire automotive industry was shocked that MT published this article. I got feedback from several insiders at different car companies and journalist in the field about this. Let me explain why.

Were you just as outraged when MotorTrend proclaimed the '06 330i over the '05 G35 when the G35 matched or did better in most categories and "price as tested" was almost $11k less?

1- Infiniti "PROCURED" the BMW for the test. I've been reading 3 different car magazines on a weekly basis for 20 years. How often do you see the a car company bring the competition with them. MT was ok with that! Bad mistake.

Was it a 335 as seen in "sold form"? Has anyone accused Infiniti of making changes to the 335 so the G37 would win? Did MT intentionally drive the 335 while boiling its oil in order for the G37 to show better? Have you contacted every magazine concerning every article you have ever read to make sure the "competition" did not provide the test vehicle?

2- Infiniti isn't stupid. There is a measureable (I'm being politically correct here) difference in performance between the 2 cars. BMW is faster, period, so INfniti brings a car to the test that they know has mechanical problems. How do they know this, because they did the same test for EDMUNDS and got the same result. The car got hot during testing and went into limp mode. How do you beat a bigger, strong, faster, smoother, better trained fighter in hand to hand combat? You fight him when he has a broken leg!!! The reputation of Infiniti has been tarnished and the only ones that refuse to hold them accoutable are die hard INFINITI owners that are too loyal to see the truth.

Wow. So, YOU are the professional who is saying the 335 was intentionally picked because Infiniti knew it had mechanical problems AND not simply plagued by BMW being cheap bastards and neglecting to put a oil cooler on a turbo car.

Too loyal for the truth? You have obviously not read the replies in most threads in here.

3- The BMW that INFINITI brought to the test was an early model automatic and BMW didn't install oil coolers on the early model automatics. They have since corrected that and retrofitted the first few months production that went out without them. So the car gets hot, goes into Limp mode, Infiniti wins because the competitor got hot and the ECU put the motor into limp mode. That is a CROCK.

Show me where the performance numbers posted by MT were done when the car was in limp mode. You can't? Then your #3 is a bunch of BS too.

You can blame BMW all you want about putting the car out without the oil cooler, and you would be right. They deserved what they got, I agree there, but INFINITI came out of this way worse.Infiniti was dishonest with the public, and with MT by doing this. They couldn't fight a fair fight since they had lost to the 335 so many other times that they had to resort to this. This is a fact, and I've confirmed this with SEVERAL high level people in the automotive industry, but it was pretty obvious when I read the article that something wasn't right.

blah...blah...blah... Again, show me where MT intentionally tested the car when in limp mode or where the performance numbers were skewed due to the oil cooler issue. You stating you have confirmed with "SEVERAL high level people in the automotive industry", yet don't drop names, simply won't float here. Shows how full of hot air you are.

I'm an INFINITI owner (and LOVE it) and considering the new G37 at the time the article came out. I had already read at least 5 other comparos that all favored the 335, some by a wide margin. So when I saw the headlines, THE KING IS DEAD, I got excited and though, finally, Infiniti did it!Well, instead they embarrased me, themselves, and lost a tremendous amount of credibility in the automotive world. My contacts said it didn't suprise them at all, that the CEO of Nissan/INfiniti is a "WHATEVER IT TAKES" type of guy. He applies that philosophy to manufacturer/production costs too, which is why Nissan has been dropping in all the QUALITY reports the last few years.

Then get a 335i and be done with it. Don't expect us to bow to you due to a BMW.

The BMW is the better car- Better performance (acceleration, handling, brakes), better warranty (including maintenance for 50k), better seats, better and more refined ride, MUCH better clutch engagement, 6spd vs 5spd transmission, MUCH better back seat (more leg and head room, ac vents, arm rest, map lights, courtesy lights, etc), and most of all, averages 3+ mpg better fuel economy. It's also 5-7k more so it should be better!

INFINITI is a better bang for the buck- nicer interior, great powertrain warranty, solid performance.

As you stated, the BMW is quite a bit more than the G37. IMO, the 335i _should_ have been better based on price. Unfortunately for them, they are not enough better for that price. But that is MT's and Infiniti's fault too.....

If you look at any of the consumer sites, JD POWER, CONSUMER REPORTS, etc. The infiniti g35/g37 and bmw 3 series score very evenly, very good across the board. Both are recommended with JD power giving the edge to BMW.

Still trying to justify your BMW purchase? Go ahead. It's a nice car. Just do it and stop pinpointing your reasoning to those of us who really don't care.

And before you start knocking the oil cooler issue too much, let's not forget about the MAJOR problems people have been experiencing on the G35's. Hundreds of engines have failed due to internal OIL leak causing the engine to BURN up all the oil and cook the motor. NISSAN/INFINITI havne't acknowleged the problem yet, and there are HUNDRED if not THOUSANDS more that will be affected in future months/years. Remember, this problem isn't on the first year model, it's on 2006's too. And what about the tire scalloping problem causing tremendous road noise (tire roar) and requiring premature replacement of tires, very expensive. There is a class action suit against Nissan and any day, they will file the one against INFINITI for the same problem.

Dude, people were wanting to pull class action suits against Nissan because the Maxima, which had 15hp more than the 3.5L Altima, was not faster. Just admit that stupid people get carried away with things and do stupid stuff (like make the post above this one). Infiniti not performing recalls probably lost a few customers. If you think we believe everything Infiniti does comes out smelling like a rose you are way misguided.

So, upon hearing all of this and spending DOZENS of hours talking to people in the industry (NOT BMW), I decided to consider the 335. I drove the G35, read tons of reviews on the G37 (all very positive) and then drove the 335. I'm not kidding when I tell you the difference was shocking. It wasn't even close for me. Everything I read was true + some.The torque in that twin turbo motor just made it perform like a European V8. The car has great pickup from 1800 rpm in about any gear WITHOUT DOWNSHIFTING. It's really incredible.Then, I looked into MODIFYING the motor and found out that with a simple ECU flash or piggy back system, the car is as faster or faster than adding a turbo to the G35 (which cost around $8000 for all parts and labor). And when you mod a G35, you void all warranties. When you do a piggy back or ECU flash on the 335, you don't (unless you take it into the dealer with the piggy back on, but I'm getting a DINAN flash and have confirmed with 2 local BMW dealers it does NOT void any warranty). Also, the G37 has such high compression, it will be more expensive and much more difficult to modify than the G35. So....in the BMW 335, you have a SUPER FAST world class car, with full warranties, and will all the refinement and reliability of a stock production car. It just became a NO CONTEST, so I bought one. 9 months after coming out, the 335 Coupe is still selling at MSRP all over the country. That should tell you something.

This is so tiresome. Buy the fukking BMW and go over to the BMW site and be another elitist. Comparing the 335i with the G35 is totally retarded in the first place and I'm done......

[KinsmanRedeemer]

Thank you. Recently, it seems that there a bunch of BMW guys that feel the need to justify their purchase by coming in here to bash the G37. You'd think they'd have something better to do.

[Yimbie]

Very nice statements, audtacious. This debate is absolutely senseless with him. What he did on the other forum is just talk about how great the BMW is. He likes going to Infiniti forums and talking about his car.

- Yimbie

[AZhitman]

Very nice statements, audtacious. This debate is absolutely senseless with him. What he did on the other forum is just talk about how great the BMW is. He likes going to Infiniti forums and talking about his car.

- Yimbie

Then again, he can't do it as maturely as Former does, which is why he was banned.

Former_240, your posts are a joy to read. At least they're accurate and well-thought-out, rather than emotional tantrums...

[joeygott]

Audtatious...

1- Yes, I was disappointed (outraged is a little strong) because I did think Infiniti won that comparo. I have only owned Infiniti, Lexus, and Toyota up until the Bimmer purchase a few weeks ago, so whatever point you are trying to make here holds no weight and it's certainly not relevant to this debate.

2- Your responses make no sense. You might have read my post, but you didnt comprehend it. Yes, it was in sold form. I have no idea if anyone is accusing Infiniti of sabotaging the car, I certainly didn't, nor did I imply that MT was complicit in this act with Infiniti. I simply said MT was wrong in allowing Infiniti to bring the car the BMW it's going to compete against. THat is common sense and you won't find anyone that would disagree with that. At the very least, it's a conflict of interest, at the worst, Infiniti will be accused of staging/sabotaging the car. Thankfully, I don't think anyone has done that.Another idiotic question from you.....NO, I haven't contacted every magazine to see whether they provide the competitors car. But, nobody is stupid enough, even you, to admit that it's done on a regular basis.

3- What I"m telling you is that I KNOW FOR A FACT that Infiniti knew that the car had problems and that it would get hot and cause car to go into limp mode. IN a way, you can't blame them, they G37 had already been beat in so many other reviews. If you KNEW FOR A FACT you were going to lose at something, would you show up? Maybe, maybe not, but you sure would show up with bells on if you knew the competition was handicapped. BMW goofed big time on the oil cooler, but they are rarely accused of being cheap. Don't get me started on cheap, and INFINITI. You should look into why the OIL BURNING ISSUE is happening on late model G's. It has all to do with cheap and changing vendors so Nissan/Infiniti could save some money. Would you like me to educate you on that MAJOR problem Nissan/Infiniti has? It's way worse than early problems with oil cooler and fuel pumps. Like any other manufacturer, some early models have problems and glitches. BMW is no different. But give me one example where BMW all of a sudden started having MAJOR problems on an existing car after it's been in production a few years. YOU WONT.

4. Here we go again, you read what I said but didn't understand. I didn't say the LIMP mode affected performance numbers. I said BMW lost the comparo due to the limp mode problem. MOTORTREND clearly says that at the end of the article as one of the main reasons, combined with the price difference. The performance numbers favored the BMW so the limp mode had nothing to do with the numbers. Why would I make excuses for the performance numbers the car posted when they were better than Infiniti's? Dude, listen to what you are saying. I'll challenge you to dispute one thing I said with facts.

5. You think I'm going to drop names just to get some other lame azz excuse from you for not acknowledging the obvious? Why would I do that, makes no sense. I will tell you that one of my contacts is from Primemedia (you do the math!). The entire automotive industry knows which is the superior car. I don't need you to agree. Go over to my postings on G35driver and you will see that about 1/2 of the G drivers agreed what I had to say. The other 1/2 are just thinking emotionally instead of using simple logic.

6. I agree with you on people being SUE HAPPY, but the Nissan/Infiniti problems are serious and legitimate. I'm sure you know. After about 8k miles, the tires on Infiniti start getting real loud, because they are scalloped. To add to the problem, the tires are staggered so you can't rotate the normal way. I know many people continue using the tires much longer but they sound terrible. That is a hell of an expensive problem to have (needing tires every year) and the noise that goes along with it due to scalloping issue.

7. I DID GET THE BMW thank you very much. Now that I have it, I decided to go back and re-examine some of the comments I've read on the Infiniti sites. Now that I have the BMW and have experienced the car, I can speak intelligently about both cars, unlike 90% of your readers who are commenting on BMW's based on 1 test drive, magazine reviews, and blind loyalty to Infiniti.

8- BMW lost some customers with their early auto 335's not having oil coolers and then a fuel pump problem. Infiniti has made the same type of mistakes. I'm knocking both companies for this.

PAPASMURF- like I mentioned above, Infiniti has some MAJOR problems too, more major than BMW problems. The oil cooler problem on autos only affects the first few months autos. FOR 95% of the people, it wasn't even a problem, for the 5% that were racing their automatics, their cars went into limp mode but still ran (to 50hph) and didn't blow up or anything like that. The ECU forces you to slow down and limit RPM's until the car would cool. The fuel pump problem is similar in that it takes you into LIMP mode so that you don't run out of gas. You can still run it, but limits RPM and takes 5 seconds to start instead of instantly. In the end, I guarantee you that these 2 problems will look minor compared to the OIL BURNING issues with VQ motors that is currently happening and will only happen more and more. Unfortunately, many more will happen when the car is out of warranty and then you've got a HUGE repair bill. Neither BMW problem is a long term major problem and it's permanently corrected early on and under warranty. Ditto for tire problem with Infiniti, it's a permanent flaw.

They haven't done a recall on the fuel pump because it's only affected a small percentage of cars and the problem is so recent, they don't have the inventory of new fuel pumps to even fix the affected cars in a timely fashion. They are just now getting the new ones in. History shows us that unlike Infiniti, BMW admits the problem and quickly fixes it.

The motor in the 328/330/and 335 is the 3.0 straight 6. Without the turbo's, the motor was bullet proof and was slightly slower than the G35. Car and Driver actually did a comparo this year and they chose the 328 Sedan (230hp) over the new NEW G35 Sedan (306HP). And when you get a chance, look at the performance of the 330 motor (255hp) against the 300+hp G motors. Cars basically weigh the same, yet with a 40-50hp deficit, the BMW has basically the same times 0-60 and qtr mile times. That motor is just awesome, not to mention that its smoother and gets much better mpg.

TAMIR- You make a good point, but some of your comments are inaccurate, based on perception and opinion rather than fact. There are not THOUSANDS waiting for fuel pumps. As a matter of fact, the number has been published and it's in the low hundreds, not thousands. A fix has been found and they are manufacturing them and working hard to get the fuel pumps in and build stock to replace the pumps as they come in. Just like the oil cooler issue, it was limited to earlier production cars and will not be a problem in the future. And you mention the oil cooler like its an unresolved problem and still ongoing with new cars purchased from the dealership. That is also untrue. The lack of oil cooler affected an even smaller number of early production automatics. There is no inventory problem with oil coolers so the dealerships are installing them at no charge for anyone that will bring their car in.

I have said many times and will repeat again, I agree that the G35/37 is a better value for many. But think about this. The 335 coupe has been out for 10 months or so. The dealers usually have to order them, very few on the lots, and they are still selling for MSRP with a few dealers doing $500 to $1000 off MSRP. And go to traderonline.com and any other car website and check the prices. The least expensive used ones are selling for close to the MSRP price of a NEW one, and they are selling! There is a reason for that, and it's because the value is there. You may not think so, but explain BMW's double digit sales growth every year, high customer retention marks, and record profits, and industry leading inventory turns, high resale value, etc. The 2007 G35 sedan (basically a 4 door version of the G37) was hot for about 6-8 weeks after it came out and now you can buy them for invoice anywhere in the country. That is also a fact because I considered buying one and have friends that work at the local infiniti dealer. On G35driver.com , about 40+% of current G owners say they dont like the looks of the new G coupe. Any guesses on how long the G37 craze will last after it comes out? I bet 2-3 months tops.

Oh, YIMBIE, what are you doing here? Good ole' Yimbie. They ran me off the G35driver website because I totally made him and a few others look bad when I pointed out the facts, vs their CONJECTURE and actually got the support of many of the G owners. Pissed them off so bad that they got super personal, called me every expletive in the book , then when I dished it back, they banned me for breaking forum rules. What a joke. I'm sure they didn't band the other fast food working punks that started with the hateful comments and filthy language. I totally made them loook like idiots. Go to their site, click on Marketplace, then scroll down to 2 days ago and look at the G37 vs 335 thread. After you get past the car stuff, you will see where it gets personal. It's actually quite hilarious. OH, Yimbie, one last thing. Your email saying my computer would be blocked didn't work because I rejoined under a different name about 5 min later. I'm being nice so far, but as soon as one of those stupid punks on your site starts up with more personal attacks, I will dish it back and make them look bad again.

In the big picture, both are great cars. At least we aren't talking about Kia's and Hyundai's!My vote is on Hyundai, anybody want to debate? lol



Modified by joeygott at 8:16 PM 8/21/2007
Modified by joeygott at 8:23 PM 8/21/2007

[AZhitman]

1 - The entire automotive industry was shocked that MT published this article.

2 - so INfniti brings a car to the test that they know has mechanical problems.

3 - This is a fact, and I've confirmed this with SEVERAL high level people in the automotive industry

4 - My contacts said it didn't suprise them at all, that the CEO of Nissan/INfiniti is a "WHATEVER IT TAKES" type of guy.

5 - Nissan has been dropping in all the QUALITY reports the last few years.

6 - better warranty (including maintenance for 50k)

7 - let's not forget about the MAJOR problems people have been experiencing on the G35's.

8 - Hundreds of engines have failed due to internal OIL leak

9 - There is a class action suit against Nissan and any day, they will file the one against INFINITI for the same problem.

10 - Then, I looked into MODIFYING the motor and found out that with a simple ECU flash or piggy back system, the car is as faster or faster than adding a turbo to the G35 (which cost around $8000 for all parts and labor).

11 - And when you mod a G35, you void all warranties.

12 - When you do a piggy back or ECU flash on the 335, you don't (unless you take it into the dealer with the piggy back on, but I'm getting a DINAN flash and have confirmed with 2 local BMW dealers it does NOT void any warranty).

13 - Also, the G37 has such high compression, it will be more expensive and much more difficult to modify than the G35.

14 - 335 Coupe is still selling at MSRP all over the country. That should tell you something.

I couldn't take the time to quote these all individually, so I'll do it with numbers...

1 - Really? I'm a bit of an auto industry insider myself (SEMA member, member of the Sport Compact Council, subscriber to numerous trade publications)... So far, I've not heard a peep (except from BMW loyalists).

2 - How could they have known? They picked it up off a dealer lot. No conspiracy here, no matter how bad you WANT it to be one.

3 - Such as whom? I'd be curious to hear who they are, since that'd be libelous.

4 - Yeah, right. Do your contacts know that much about Ghosn? Know anything about his history? Know that he pulled Nissan from financial disaster? He's the CEO of NNA, not Infiniti - your "contacts" should have corrected you there.

5 - All of them, huh?

"Nissan also performed dramatically better in the 2005 study, with the Nissan Quest as the most-improved model, recording an impressive 104 PP100 improvement."

"The Infiniti M45 has been ranked as one of the top three models in its class by the highly regarded JD Power and Associates in their recently conducted 2007 Initial Quality Study."

You'll HATE this one:

JD Power 2007 Automotive Brand Rank Problems Per 100 Vehicles

* Porsche 91 * Lexus 94 * Lincoln 100 * Honda 108 * Mercedes-Benz 111 * Jaguar 112 * Toyota 112 * Mercury 113* Infiniti 117 * Ford 120 * Scion 123 * Hyundai 125 * Kia 125 * Industry Average 125 * Buick 127 * Chevrolet 129 * Volvo 129 * Acura 130 * GMC 131* Nissan 132 * Saturn 132* BMW 133

However, there's so many damn "rankings" that there's bound to be some B.S. - I don't trust them much, especially given that I've participated in such studies and KNOW how they can be skewed (wthout the researchers even knowing or understanding WHY).

6 - In response to a class-action lawsuit. Saved their butts and people think "Oh, how sweet, I get free maintenance." Great for leases, though!

7 - Really? Do tell. Mine's been bulletproof. I also frequent a local board, no issues of note there. Hell, we have a TON of G35 owners here, no common complaints...

8 - Internal oil leak? Hmmmm.

What's an "internal oil leak"? First I've heard of an oil issue. There's an oil consumption issue, but I can tell you EXACTLY where that oil goes, and there's a cheap easy fix for it.

9 - More rhetoric. Got a case number? Anyone can file a class-action suit, happens all the time. Means very little unless the automaker is found culpable.

Ask BMW, they know all about this. Their "free maintenance" stemmed from just such an action.

10 - Ummm, wrong. You find a simple ECU tune that will add 100+ hp and I'll buy it. EVEN if it did, shame on the company for releasing the car in such a horrible state of detune.

You own a car with a tuned ECU? I own 2. Don't tell me about ECU tuning, unless you're prepared to talk tech.

11 - Wrong again.

Magnusson-Moss Act. Look it up.

It applies to Infiniti and BMW alike.

12 - Contradictory bullcrap. You say "it doesn't void the warranty unless you take it into the dealer with the piggy back on" and then say "it does NOT void any warranty".

Not only are THEY wrong, you're wrong. If it wasn't an issue, why would you take it off? Hmmmmm?

13 - G37 compression ratio: 11.0:1335i compression ratio: 10.2:1

Hardly a big difference, and if the 335i was N/A, it'd be 11:1 as well. Duh.

14 - You know what people pay "out the door"?

Interesting that the G35 is tops in resale value... Dealers sell both cars at MSRP all day long. Neither are "deeply discounted", and neither are "in surplus" on dealer lots.

It's readily apparent that you wandered into a forum full of knowledgeable people and spouted horsecrap without considering the implications of being exposed.

If you can absorb that without getting butthurt, it's been duly noted that you did make some GOOD points as well, so welcome aboard.

[audtatious]

Audtatious...

1- Yes, I was disappointed (outraged is a little strong) because I did think Infiniti won that comparo. I have only owned Infiniti, Lexus, and Toyota up until the Bimmer purchase a few weeks ago, so whatever point you are trying to make here holds no weight and it's certainly not relevant to this debate.

Then it's all good. Of course, you did not claim such and simply ranted on this particular article.

2- Your responses make no sense. You might have read my post, but you didnt comprehend it. Yes, it was in sold form. I have no idea if anyone is accusing Infiniti of sabotaging the car, I certainly didn't, nor did I imply that MT was complicit in this act with Infiniti. I simply said MT was wrong in allowing Infiniti to bring the car the BMW it's going to compete against. THat is common sense and you won't find anyone that would disagree with that. At the very least, it's a conflict of interest, at the worst, Infiniti will be accused of staging/sabotaging the car. Thankfully, I don't think anyone has done that.Another idiotic question from you.....NO, I haven't contacted every magazine to see whether they provide the competitors car. But, nobody is stupid enough, even you, to admit that it's done on a regular basis.

Your statements insinuate Infiniti went out of the way to find a car that had more issues than it was delivered to the dealership with. That is not the case but is a contention point that BMW owners focus on. Imply it then deny it. Was it optimal? No. I'm sure MT validated there was no tampering and as you stated (and I've stated and Greg has stated and others have stated) the BMW stats do show it was the better performer.

3- What I"m telling you is that I KNOW FOR A FACT that Infiniti knew that the car had problems and that it would get hot and cause car to go into limp mode. IN a way, you can't blame them, they G37 had already been beat in so many other reviews. If you KNEW FOR A FACT you were going to lose at something, would you show up? Maybe, maybe not, but you sure would show up with bells on if you knew the competition was handicapped. BMW goofed big time on the oil cooler, but they are rarely accused of being cheap. Don't get me started on cheap, and INFINITI. You should look into why the OIL BURNING ISSUE is happening on late model G's. It has all to do with cheap and changing vendors so Nissan/Infiniti could save some money. Would you like me to educate you on that MAJOR problem Nissan/Infiniti has? It's way worse than early problems with oil cooler and fuel pumps. Like any other manufacturer, some early models have problems and glitches. BMW is no different. But give me one example where BMW all of a sudden started having MAJOR problems on an existing car after it's been in production a few years. YOU WONT.

You don't know anything for a fact without physical proof. You believe something based of what someone else has said. That is not fact, it is hearsay. The only facts that you have accurately portrayed is that the early G's had issues with the front tires and have experienced some blowby.

4. Here we go again, you read what I said but didn't understand. I didn't say the LIMP mode affected performance numbers. I said BMW lost the comparo due to the limp mode problem. MOTORTREND clearly says that at the end of the article as one of the main reasons, combined with the price difference. The performance numbers favored the BMW so the limp mode had nothing to do with the numbers. Why would I make excuses for the performance numbers the car posted when they were better than Infiniti's? Dude, listen to what you are saying. I'll challenge you to dispute one thing I said with facts.

Dude, when you can type a paragraph without making statements from both sides of your mouth there may not be any issues. BMW did not lose anything other than the fact that their stupidity when they brought the car out without a oil cooler was flung up in their faces again. You and the other Elite are all hung up over an article title and not paying attention to the actual results. You claim it outperformed the G37. Yes it did. Since the article title states the G won you are all butt-hurt. Well, get over it. Coming on here to bust chops about Infiniti and their crappy vehicle and lack of ethics speaks volumes about the person you really are.

5. You think I'm going to drop names just to get some other lame azz excuse from you for not acknowledging the obvious? Why would I do that, makes no sense. I will tell you that one of my contacts is from Primemedia (you do the math!). The entire automotive industry knows which is the superior car. I don't need you to agree. Go over to my postings on G35driver and you will see that about 1/2 of the G drivers agreed what I had to say. The other 1/2 are just thinking emotionally instead of using simple logic.

Your names probably would not impress any of us anyway so its a moot point (and that's with doing the math, I'm not impressed). I do find it comical that you don't need me to agree with you but you come on here slamming Infiniti and the G37 with what seems to be the full intent of making us agree with you. The one thing you don't understand is some of us like the G37 regardless of a magazine article or you wanting to force some kinds of surrender on our parts. I honestly don't understand what your need is here.

6. I agree with you on people being SUE HAPPY, but the Nissan/Infiniti problems are serious and legitimate. I'm sure you know. After about 8k miles, the tires on Infiniti start getting real loud, because they are scalloped. To add to the problem, the tires are staggered so you can't rotate the normal way. I know many people continue using the tires much longer but they sound terrible. That is a hell of an expensive problem to have (needing tires every year) and the noise that goes along with it due to scalloping issue.

Tire problems happen on lots of vehicles. I've had numerous Ford and Chevy products that did the exact same thing. It's nothing new. What do you care anyway? It's not your money.

7. I DID GET THE BMW thank you very much. Now that I have it, I decided to go back and re-examine some of the comments I've read on the Infiniti sites. Now that I have the BMW and have experienced the car, I can speak intelligently about both cars, unlike 90% of your readers who are commenting on BMW's based on 1 test drive, magazine reviews, and blind loyalty to Infiniti.

You just decided to come on here to reinforce your purchasing decison. Congratulations on purchasing a vehicle that costs a good sum more than the one you are complaining about. Personally, I prefer the look of a redesigned 2nd gen coupe vs. that of the 335i which is simply a more rounded version of an old body style. But hey, that's just me.

8- BMW lost some customers with their early auto 335's not having oil coolers and then a fuel pump problem. Infiniti has made the same type of mistakes. I'm knocking both companies for this.

You can discuss "facts", or lack thereof, all you want and that is fine. Next time you pop off to me or another member on here I won't be so patient or pleasant.

[joeygott]

1- I'm not a BMW loyalist (neve owned one until a few weeks ago). None of my industry contacts even work for BMW, or any affiliated company.2- Infiniti ran the car for EDMUNDS. Granted, they may not have known of the oil cooler problem when they took it to EDMUNDS, but they DEFINITELY knew about it when they brought it to the Motortrend Comparo.3- this will be the one exception where I can't back it up with facts, because to do that, I woul have to disclose my sources and that wouldn't happen in a million years. And as an FYI- being a hard core Infiniti fan for years, the sources I'm referring to are or shoudl I say WERE too. They are friends of mine and h ave been for years. They knew I loved Infiniti and that I could be trusted.4- Oh, I"m sorry, NNA and Nissan and INfiniti have nothing to do with each other, right? Please. You don't think I know that Infiniti is Nissan and NNA is part of NISSAN? Yes, my contacts know who is pulling the strings at Nissan and that they pulled out of deep financial trouble. I can tell you this though, they didn't pull out of trouble by making the best cars (like TOYOTA does for example or Nordstrom or Starbucks), they did it with price and value (Walmart, Target, Kohls). Your comment to me reminds me of one of the guys on the g35driver.com website trying to discredit EVERYTHING I said because I mispelled the word Faceteous. I probably mispelled it again, big whip, doesn't change squat.5- I don't know about ALL the quality reports, but in consumer reports, and JD power they absolutely did. And if you know anyting about JD power, those numbers you posted are made up of an average from several categories. In the category dealing specifically with MECHANICAL problems, BMW ranked 5th, and I would be HAPPY to provide proof of that if you wish. They did rank lower in other categories with BRAKE DUST on the rims being the #1 complaint. Again, a fact I can back up.6- The Nissan Quest had one of the worst customer satisfaction scores EVER a few years ago. Here you go quoting JD POWERS, a company that looks at problems per vehicle during the first 90 days of ownership (which is what you sent me). I prefer looking at CONSUMER REPORTS, a not for profit entity that thoroughly researches thousands of owners of each model over a period of YEARS so that we can get an accurate indicator of long term reliability. The JD power you sent me is crap, and if you are in the auto business, you know that. Here is what CONSUMER REPORTS says....CR Model Offset-crash scores improved to Good. But reliability has been poor since the 2004 redesign. It gives the Quest the WORST score. I bet you liked that one. Here you go...http://www.consumerreports.org...w.htm. IT may require subscription.I've also been VERY clear in all my posts that BMW reliability has been very strong for the 3 series, but not for 5 or 7. So your JD Power proves nothing.Oh, look what I happend to find on consumer reports,"BMW's 3 Series cars have been exemplary in almost all respects, save for a tight rear seat (which has been addressed for 2007. These cars exhibited excellent handling and braking in our tests. "This is also interesting....Owner satisfaction: Coupes & convertibles Coupes & convertibles Would you buy that car again? Indicates percentage of owners surveyed who would definitely purchase the same vehicle again. Models BMW 3 Series coupe & convertible 75 . Infiniti G35 coupe 71 .

Owner satisfaction: Upscale sedans Upscale sedans Would you buy that car again? Indicates percentage of owners surveyed who would definitely purchase the same vehicle again. Models BMW 330i sedan awd 86 . Lexus IS350 83 . BMW 330i sedan rwd 83 . Acura TL 81 . BMW 325i sedan rwd 80 . Acura TSX 78 . BMW 325i sedan awd 78 . Lexus IS250 rwd 77 . Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ 77 . Lexus IS250 awd 74 . Lexus ES350 74 . Infiniti G35 sedan 69 .

Dont even try and compare JD initial 90 day problems per car with YEARS and millions of miles of data from consumer reports.

The infiniti M35 and M45 are stellar cars and I've recommended them to quite a few people I know, because I like them much more than the BMW 5 series. ONly draw back with the M is fuel economy.

7. Sorry AZHitman, you lost some points on this one. Just about any G owner can tell you about them, not that they have all experienced it (not at all), but it's well known and discussed frequently on G sites. You think I made this up? Here is a comment by Pat Goss (automotive guru and host of Goss’s Garage on 106.7 JFK) . Quote from this link..."I found out that a percentage of our cars have problems with their piston rings. He told me that Nissan refuses to admit the problem and that I should be looking for a new engine." Here is the link AZHitman. I actually know of two 2006 G35's that I found with this problem when I was car shopping a few weeks ago. It's a MAJOR problem. You will find tons of people affected and tons more on the verge.http://g35driver.com/forums/sh...10973

8- OH sorry, got me on the verbage again, it's an OIL CONSUMPTION problem, not an Internal Oil Leak. Maybe you can explain the difference and how it changes anything I said before? I didn't think so.

9. Case number? I"m not believing this? You really think I'm making all this up? You can't be serious. Here is the link to the class action lawsuit. Man, you are looking real bad right now.http://www.nissantireproblems.com/The attorneys are on the verge of serving INfiniti too, and there is TONS of comlaints, I mean people that are roaring mad all over the forums and 350z sites.

10- go to mydragtimes.com or bimmerforums.com. STOCK 335 with a variety of piggy back ecu's, plug and plays, etc are running mid to high 12's in the qtr mile. I can send you all the timeslips you want. That is better than most FI G35/350Z. And remember, this cars have stock exhaust, stock air intakes, stock tires, etc. The cars haven't been out long enough for people to have perfected the tuning like the G35/350z. Dinan just posted a 12.3 1/4 mile in a 335 and all it had was an ECU flash and dual exhaust. Everything else on the car was stock, including tires. Remember, these cars are not tricked out cars, they run exactly like a stock car, and if you remove the piggy back or plug in chip, there is NO EVIDENCE, impossibly to trace it. In my case, I'm getting the DINAN ECU flash- no parts, no affect on warranty, and I will run high 12's completely stock car, full BMW waranty. This is also fact, and proof is in the forums, on dragtimes.com, etc etc.

11- I'm familiar with the Mag act. Technically, you are correct, but realistically, you are so wrong. Call ANY Infiniti dealership in the country. Tell them you have a Greddy, JWT, turbo or a Supercharger of any sort and let them know if it voids the warranty. I made the EXACT same phone call when I was looking at 2005/2006 G's just a month or two ago. EVERY dealer including Infiniti Consumer Affairs was VERY clear there is NO warranty on the motor if the failure can be tied directly or indirectly to the turbo/sc bolted on the motor. You would be shocked how easy it is to tie about EVERYTHING mechanical to the turbo/sc. Obviously, it doesn't affect interior, body, electrical (unless ignition), brakes, etc. but it does affect about everything mechanical. Even with the STILLEN system sold by some Infiniti dealers, motor warranty is only 1 year, again, verified because I looked at a BRAND NEW black 2007 g35 coupe with stage 2 Stillen Package. Dealer in PA wants 51k for it, still on traderonline if you want to verify that too.

12- Again, you aren't listening. The 335 already has turbos stock, so the engine mods you do to a 335 are removable (ECU flash, piggy back ecu, plug and play chip and tuners, etc) All removable in minutes. Of course, if you are smart, you just buy DINAN and not have to worry about it. But on the G, to mod the motor to compete with the 335, you have to go with forced induction via Turbo or Supercharger. If you have a motor problem, you aren't going to remove the turbo or S/C before taking it into the dealership if it's still under the powertrain warranty.

See how you keep twisting words? How can I be any more clear but you just refuse to ackknowledge it. Remember I said, BLIND LOYALTY? This is exactly what I was referring to.

13. I was just making a statement which is widely accepted in the aftermarket performance world that a higher compression motor is more difficult to MOD with F.I. Many G35 owners have already commented on it.You will almost have to go with an internal rebuild to add F.I. to a car with 11:1 compression or more. BMW is lower compression and was built and engineered as an F.I. motor since it comes stock that way. Very simple logic there AZ!

14. AZ, I just finished 3 full months of car shopping. There isn't an Infiniti dealer in the country selling 2007 G35's for anywhere close to MSRP. Anybody on this site will tell you that. Call them! If it's 40k MSRP, you can buy it for 36-37k all day long. Try that on a BMW. And check out the prices for used ones on traderonline, cars.com, etc. Again, this is fact and anybody in the car business will back up what I said. It's right there and easy to research. Call any salesman at Infiniti or BMW. They know the market, they can tell you right away. I had 3 infiniti dealer offering 07 coupe or Sedan for $100-$500 over invoice. No biggie, any will do that.Try calling a BMW dealer and getting anywhere close to that. coupes are going for close to MSRP, still. Sedans not as hot, going for a few thousand over.

I'll bite my lip and won't say anything else.

Modified by joeygott at 7:28 AM 8/22/2007
Modified by joeygott at 7:28 AM 8/22/2007

[AZhitman]

Bite your lip all you want, but you've got jukes that'd make Walter Payton proud.

Those who speak the most often say the least. My responses to you were simple and concise, and didn't require blathering on and on.

Just address the inaccuracies, man.

[joeygott]

What's funny is that you guys say I'm slamming INFINITI. I"m just pointing out details and facts. It was my #2 choice behind the 335, how much do I hate the car? I don't. On the contrary, I"m just being realistic, some good stuff, some not so good. I"m not the one BUTTHURT here. I have the whole auto world behind me and you have 1 article in MOTORTREND behind you. Who is BUTTHURT?I just think it was crappy, and many non-bmw owners do to, that you guys are jumping on the MOTORTREND bandwagon celebrating a victory that is tarnished by the fact that your competitor had a mechanical failure. Answer this question: If they ran the same tests today 10 times, which car would win 10 out of 10? Case closed?That is why this whole MT thing is just so bogus to me, not even taking into account what I know from my contacts. You wouldn't know their names anyways. I'ts not like they are CEO's, they are experienced and well known in the industry, but not by car enthusiasts like us. You can throw that part out of the window if you want, still doesn't change my point or the answer to the 10 out of 10 question I just asked you?I'm 39 years old, and you are right, tire problems happen, but the one on the G35/350z are more than just the usual. ANd in all the cars I've owned, I've never had tire problems like that or as serious as that.

AUDtatious, I'm not here for the pleasantries. I'm just here to talk cars.I just don't like it when people have diarhhea of the mouth and talk crap and don't have the facts straight. So I'm not trying to reinforce anything, just wanting to keep the facts straight so that people aren't brain washed when they visit the site.

[AZhitman]

From your beloved "Consumer Reports":

Best Cars 2007 - Consumer ReportsSedan, $30,000 to $40,000Infiniti G35Cost: $35,000 to $39,000

The G35 is available in rear-wheel-drive or all-wheel-drive.

The G35 "really blows the BMW 3-series away at its own game," said David Champion, head of auto testing for Consumer Reports. "It's extremely fast - 306 horsepower, zero-to-60 in 5.4 seconds - really agile handling, great steering, reasonable amount of room inside and really easy to live with on a day-to-day basis."

Its reliability has also been excellent, Champion said, although the record for parent company Nissan has been spotty.

Guess what car DIDN'T make that list?

A reminder: Best Cars 2007 - Consumer Reports

G35: 1 335: 0

Your source, bro.

[joeygott]

Here we go again, SMOKE AND MIRRORS.Look at the price range. BASE price of the 335 is over 40k. So yes, I agree with his comments. He is comparing the G35 agains the 3 series in that price range, NOT the 335.Please, do you really want me to start copying and pasting quotes from car magazines and other industry people about the 335 vs the G37. It's so obvious, I dont even have to cut and paste any to make my point.You are wasting your time.Here, I'll repeat myself. The g35 and G37 are great cars and the better value, but the 335 is definitely the better car. See, now wasn't that easy?I"m not trashing it.

[AZhitman]

But on the G, to mod the motor to compete with the 335, you have to go with forced induction via Turbo or Supercharger.

Seems like it "competed" just fine with natural aspiration.

Then again, Consumer Reports doesn't drag race, so you won't believe it.

[AZhitman]

I'm simply refuting your points - No need to lose your cool.

You said CR was the end-all, be-all of testing (they're not, but that's not up for discussion).

I only shared what they had to say about the cars.

I know you're not trashing the G, and I'm not a blind loyalist either. In fact, I'm not really a fan of the 37.

But to step in here and blindly blather that you somehow have some "superior knowledge" is bound to draw some questioning.

How is quoting a magazine article "smoke and mirrors"? No deception involved, bro. None at all.

[AZhitman]

I think getting this back to G37 vs 335i is a good idea...

The only tests I've read recently are as follows - (NOTE: Edmunds is a joke, but that's neither here nor there)

http://www.motivemagazine.com/...shtmlh ... el...21462

Both give the nod narrowly to the 335i, altho the first article is the only one worth reading...

[audtatious]

What's funny is that you guys say I'm slamming INFINITI. I"m just pointing out details and facts. It was my #2 choice behind the 335, how much do I hate the car? I don't. On the contrary, I"m just being realistic, some good stuff, some not so good. I"m not the one BUTTHURT here. I have the whole auto world behind me and you have 1 article in MOTORTREND behind you. Who is BUTTHURT?I just think it was crappy, and many non-bmw owners do to, that you guys are jumping on the MOTORTREND bandwagon celebrating a victory that is tarnished by the fact that your competitor had a mechanical failure. Answer this question: If they ran the same tests today 10 times, which car would win 10 out of 10? Case closed?That is why this whole MT thing is just so bogus to me, not even taking into account what I know from my contacts. You wouldn't know their names anyways. I'ts not like they are CEO's, they are experienced and well known in the industry, but not by car enthusiasts like us. You can throw that part out of the window if you want, still doesn't change my point or the answer to the 10 out of 10 question I just asked you?I'm 39 years old, and you are right, tire problems happen, but the one on the G35/350z are more than just the usual. ANd in all the cars I've owned, I've never had tire problems like that or as serious as that.

AUDtatious, I'm not here for the pleasantries. I'm just here to talk cars.I just don't like it when people have diarhhea of the mouth and talk crap and don't have the facts straight. So I'm not trying to reinforce anything, just wanting to keep the facts straight so that people aren't brain washed when they visit the site.

No, you are an arrogant azzhole. Read through MY posts concerning your beloved BMW and you won't see where I flamed it. You come over here with the "loyalists" bullcrap bandwagon and try to shove your thoughts down our throats. When was the last time you looked at the Dinan 12-second thread? Was it before or after they determined the timeslip was a fake? Before or after they talked to Dinan for confirmation that the ECU change was good for appx 30-40hp? Was it before you had a code and missed the discussion because you had to take your new BMW into the dealer?

Finally, what does age have to do with it? I'm 42 so does that make my opinion count over yours?

[AZhitman]

Fake timeslips?

That's ricer math, buys and girls!

p.s. There's a Dinan-equipped 335i sitting at my buddy's dealership... I should go drive it and report back. Should be a fun ride.

[joeygott]

NO, but CR is a great source to really get a reliable indicator of long term reliability, which we would all agree is much more important than the JD 90 day initial quality rating.

Yes, they said it BLOWS away the 3 at it own game then goes on to read performance stats. It's true, the G35/37 is faster than the normally aspirated 328/330 but not by much. But our entire debate is about the 335, not the 328/330 so I was just making that clear that they were comparing it against that car, not the 335. I wasn't directing the SMOKE AND MIRRORS at you, more at the article. Again, just clarifying the comment that the class of 3 series they were referring to was the 325/328/330 which all cost under 40.

I"m done, bed time. Enjoyed it. Later.

[AZhitman]

Roger that.

Hope you can make it out to our big event in Atlanta next month, I'll buy the first round.

[joeygott]

YOU SUFFERETH FROM BUTTHURTITIS. Relax.I never accused you of FLAMING the Bimmer, only of gloating over a BOGUS MT article.If you read the bimmer forums and vishnutuning forums, you will see that it was me who was quick to point out that the DINAN ECU flash was not going to be the same performance as what DINAN was beta testing. With Vishu,Exed,AA, etc, cars are running high 12's without any other mods. Several have hit mid 12's with air intake, exhaust, and the piggy back ecu.Here are two posts SWEETIE from E90 and there are more on Vishnu. 08-19-2007, 01:30 AM #104 joeygott Member Drives: 2007 BMW 335

Join Date: Aug 2007Location: GA

Posts: 5 iTrader: (0) DINAN

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dinan told me they will offer different stages, with some coming with custom intake, exhaust, etc.The ECU reflash is only supposed to be in the 40hp range, which is fine for most, but for people seeking maximum power, Dinan is probably not your best choice, unless they actually come out with something that supports that 12.3 qtr mile time. Highly suspect of that by the way (later confirmed as beta testing not for public product).But for me, DINAN is by far my best choice. They put way more time and R&D into testing and it's not a piggy back system or plug in module which can't retard the timing, which is required when you boost. So, from an engineering standpoint, it's superior, and I did confirm with the local BMW dealer that there is no impact on BMW warranty with the DINAN ecu flash. There is NO WAY I would pay $1300 dollars for something that trips codes and causes limp mode failures on a regular basis. I'll wait and get the real deal. Will it be as wicked fast? Probably not, and it might even cost more money. but the peace of mind and trouble free service makes it WELL worth it.

08-20-2007, 12:52 AM #157 joeygott Member Drives: 2007 BMW 335

Join Date: Aug 2007Location: GA

Posts: 5 iTrader: (0) DINAN

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think DINAN is going to have a product that will give you 100+HP, but that isn't what I want anyways. I just want to maximize the engines abilities, with minimal impact on longevity, no glitches (codes, error, limp mode), and minimal affect on MPG and there is NO DOUBT in my mind that the best way to do that is through an ECU flash, not a piggy back or plug and play. That is a fact. Now, does that mean DINAN is going to have more power than VISHNU, NO, it doesn't, but only because DINAN doesn't want to.And unless you have 2 335's, why would anyone prefer to have the piggy back box compared to an ECU flash. Well, if you aren't close to a DINAN shop that would be one good reason. But the flash updates are free or very inexpensive, there are no warranty concerns, done at Dinan authorized BMW dealership or local shop, doesn't require that you return the item or download updates, etc.ONe look at all the complaints on all the sites from VISHNU owners makes the choice very easy for me. For guys that like to fiddle with their cars and have the time to screw with it, and not concerned about warranty and the car being tuned perfectly, I guess VISHNU rocks. Not trying to knock the product, but for guys that don't want to sacrafice that stuff and don't want any glitches and problems, and don't need 70-90HP, DINAN seems to be the way to go.

AS far as my code, it was the tire pressure monitor (TPM) letting me know it wasn't set right. Turns out, the guy who I bought the car had some aftermarket rims tried on right before I bought the car. The guy at the tire shop didn't realize that for 2007, BMW put the TPM sensor in the valvestem of the tire and reistalled the original OEM tires/rims with std valvestems. So when I picked up the car, the owner said he got the error code and didnt know what it was. I checked tire pressure, all was fine, but still had code. Went through instructions on how to reset the TPM, wouldnt work. took car to dealership and they told me about missing TPM valvestems. Called guy I bought the car from, he had TPM removed from aftermarket rims and shipped to me, and now I have to go get them installed and he has offered to pay the $150 for the inconvenience. So, in this case, the BMW system worked as it should. having them re- installed later this week.

No, you being 42 just means you are 3 years older than me. LOLYou must hate me right now. Just kidding dude.I mention that I'm 39 because many of the punks I got into debates with on g35driver were 17-25. The guys I spoke to tonight (including you) are ten times smarter and more knowledgable than those guys were.

Now I'm done for real. sleep time.

[AZhitman]

Oh snap.

Last word, old guy jokes, AND he gets to go to bed at a reasonable hour.

Bastard.

p.s. +1 on this being the place for better technical discussion... some "other" forums are a circle-jerk for fanboyism.

[audtatious]

YOU SUFFERETH FROM BUTTHURTITIS. Relax.

Me? Read your posts from our perspective and you will see why a large number of people reacted "butthurt". Come onto any site and start dropping names and you will have problems. Drop names on a staff member or a Admin and you will usually be gone very quickly. Just to qualify, NO, "our perspective" is not "Infiniti Fan Boiz" as you have accused us. We are car enthusiasts first and Nissan enthusiasts second.

I never accused you of FLAMING the Bimmer, only of gloating over a BOGUS MT article.

Why are you so personally "bent" over one article? Because a Nissan/Infiniti site posted it and discussed it? Of course we posted it. Of course we are glad someone felt the new G was the overall better car. Why wouldn't we? Why would you make it your personal mission to go to Nissan sites to press home your viewpoints when the article is simply another persons viewpoint? While you accuse us of being "loyalists" you have done the exact thing we expect BMW owners to do as the past has shown.

If you read the bimmer forums and vishnutuning forums, you will see that it was me who was quick to point out that the DINAN ECU flash....

Good for you for noting it then. I simply looked for the 12.xxxx Dinan thread and it dropped me into the "falsification" section. I have no doubt that your car can get in the 12's with simple bolt ons as there is a 2k2 NA Maxima that can do high 12's with bolt ons. Anything can be done with enough time and money.

I don't think DINAN is going to have a product that will give you 100+HP, but that isn't what I want anyways. I just want to maximize the engines abilities, with minimal impact on longevity, no glitches (codes, error, limp mode), ...

Which, IMO is the proper direction. From what I saw it seems the 100+hp stage would require new turbo's as well, thus the expense goes up. Gotta pay to play. The BMW/Dinan deal is pretty sweet and we wish there was a bit more of that within our Nissan community structure. Hell, it took years just to get NISMO parts released here. The only difference I see between a high HP 335i and a comparatively equipped/capable G would be the overall expense of both (G will still be cheaper in price, but not as supported in the "eye" of Nissan as the Dinan equipped BMW will be).

AS far as my code, it was the tire pressure monitor (TPM) letting me know it wasn't set right. Turns out, the guy who I bought the car had some aftermarket rims tried on right before I bought the car. .....

It acutally happens to a lot of people and the Versa folk have had more of a rough time with tire pressure sensors than the rest. My jab was pretty simple; the BMW has worked all its isssues out yet you threw codes and mentioned taking it in to the dealership. No car is perfect.

No, you being 42 just means you are 3 years older than me. LOLYou must hate me right now. Just kidding dude.I mention that I'm 39 because many of the punks I got into debates with on g35driver were 17-25. The guys I spoke to tonight (including you) are ten times smarter and more knowledgable than those guys were.

You would have done FAR better on here NOT comming off with rants and simply posting your points. You had an expectation coming in that we are "loyalists" and acted immediately via your first post. You follow that up with personal attacks against my replies, which is not the smartest thing to do when trying to get a point across.

Regardless of the article, I still like the G and see it as a great step forward in the evolution of the product line. You may not like some of the positioning that Nissan/Infiniti has done with its products nor with their handling of issues and most of us would tend to agree. They are pretty much no better nor worse than most manufacturers.

[joeygott]

This isn't personal, just car talk and debate amongst enthusiast, exactly what I said in one of my earlier posts.

I like the G too and I totally believe that both Infiniti and BMW continue making these cars better and better because of each other. So I"m all for this long term rivalry.

Later.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I mention that I'm 39 because many of the punks I got into debates with on g35driver were 17-25.

Edit: some weird forum glitch happend, please disreguard this post.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I mention that I'm 39 because many of the punks I got into debates with on g35driver were 17-25.

I hate that age group... wait, what? (I'm 22).

I just read almost all of everything everyone wrote. Good points made on both sides. To tell you the truth, I was unaware of any oil burning problems with the VQ engine, just the QR crap box or whatever 4 banger they are throwing in the altima these days...

Also props to Bimmer for owning up and fixing that problem quick. I was unawre they had already corrected the problem. As far as the BMW being the superior car: As has been previously stated (on both sides), I would hope it would be, as it does indeed cost quite a bit more (not that there is anything wrong with that.

As to modding the cars: I would agree that the BMW should be easier to mod. Generally speaking, it is easier to squeeze more hp, easier, out of a pre-turbo'd car. That is what makes forced induction so nice, after all. And Greg: it is VERY realistic that someone can squeeze out a lot more hp out of that car in factory condition. They didn't neccessarily release a "de-tuned" car, rather a "safety-tuned" car. Engineering has saftey factors built into well, pretty much everything. They bring the car to where it will last an incredibly long time, and then bump it down just a little bit for safety's sake, or sometimes, emission's sake.

Good pont vs. counterpoint guys. Glad to see both sides kept their cool (for the most part). And the 17-25 age group actually does piss me off sometimes haha.

[joeygott]

PAPASmurf is 22? I think he was way older than that on the show.

You are obviously mature beyond your age. I didn't mean any disrespect with regards to age. I was just referring to a few guys that got crazy person on me over at g35driver. I was once 22 and would like to be again! I"m jealous.

Thanks.

[audtatious]

I was unaware of any oil burning problems with the VQ engine, just the QR crap box or whatever 4 banger they are throwing in the altima these days...

I would not necessarily call the VQ oil issue a "buring problem" altho that is usually what happens. Seems in certain conditions that particalized oil vapor gets past the PCV and into the intake system. Some have added "oil collectors" on the return line to stop the oil from getting into the IM. Seems to happen more on oils like 00w than 5w or 10w.

Thus far, after 127k miles, I have really had no issues with my VQ35DE