It's Official: G37 Trounces BMW’s 335i

[Jesda]

The current Maxima is comparatively very impressive - Not even in the same category (if we're discussing putting power down in a FF configuration without nasty effects) as the Gimpala.

I drove it when it first came out, and it was clear that Nissan made some obvious engineering mistakes when it came to putting 300HP through the front. Its a damn shame, because the body, interior, and overall value are pretty darn good. When I drive a car, I want it to respond to my inputs, not fight with me! A little tug at the wheel at full throttle is nothing to worry about, but actively pulling against me through a curve is unacceptable.

Nissan needs to learn from Honda and GM about managing FWD power in a luxury car.

Quote »'09 Impala is going to be RWD. Is it the current Impala or the '09 that the Buick will be based on?[/quote]The Lacrosse Super will be based on the W-body just like the 2006 Impala.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/bu....htmlLooks better than the standard Lacrosse, but thats hardly something to brag about.

There's rumors out there that a version of the Holden Commodore could be offered to Buick and called Regal. I would approve of that.

[audtatious]

I drove a Lacrosse for a week and was not impressed. I hope their sport model is better than the basic slug they sell.

[HashiriyaS14]

There's rumors out there that a version of the Holden Commodore could be offered to Buick and called Regal. I would approve of that.

That's news to me.

Neat.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

They have a 330i cabrio in the lobby at Bosch. I see it every day going to work. They put it right next to a '72 (I think) BMW 2002. Both cars are puff, and have really nice interiors. I don't think I could get away with popping the hood though...

Although I do have a meeting with some guy named Benz on monday... is there still a Benz at Mercedes?

[AZhitman]

Do it anyway - The worst they can do is call you a "Stupid American".

[Former_240_s14]

Now everyone knows my love for Nissan and BMW alike....however, this test BMW was supplied by Infiniti...very important to keep in mind.

In my honest opinion (and I now work for BMW) I love what Nissan has done with the Infiniti brand. They have created a great driving machine that costs thousand less than the BMW product, however they had to cut small corners to do so.

Also one thing that no one can describe on paper is feel. Without driving the G37 yet I have to go with my assumptions based off the last time I drove a G35. The G35 does NOT feel or drive like the 3 series and the feel is absolutely different. There is a true sense of confidence with the BMW in the chasis that is not matched by anyone else on this planet maybe except for Porsche.

Both cars are the two best segment, but without the 335 and the previous 3 series products there would be no G35/G37 either. Almost everyone in the segment owes thanks to BMW for building this vehicle for over 20 years and continuingly improving a well built and balanced design.

I can't wait for the skyline to come out, should be a great competitor for the M3 and vice versa.

Rubin

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Healthy competition and capitalism FTW!

[Kendahl]

The G35 does NOT feel or drive like the 3 series and the feel is absolutely different. There is a true sense of confidence with the BMW in the chasis that is not matched by anyone else on this planet maybe except for Porsche.

The question of whether the differences between Audis, BMWs and Porsches and their competition justifies the German cars' higher price and operating cost is one that I have been struggling with as I shop for a successor to my 1984 Mazda RX-7. Compared to the RX-7, I want its replacement to be faster, handle at least as well, and be quieter and more comfortable. Each time I test drive a car, I ask myself how would I feel after a long day's solo drive in it, for example, 900 miles in 14 hours or 1300 miles in 17 hours.

When I began shopping, the cars on my short list were Porsche Cayman, BMW 328i coupe, Audi TT Quattro V6 and Audi A4 Quattro V6, all with manual transmissions. I have been able to drive both Cayman models and couple of used 911s, a TT with DSG, a used 325xi and a used 328Ci coupe (not the current model). All of them have come up short, usually because of noise or comfort issues. I would still like to drive an A4 and a new 328i, but the nearby Audi and BMW dealers do not stock manual transmission cars, just automatics.

Magazine comparison tests have consistently described the Infiniti G35 sedan and coupe as great bargains but not quite up to the level of their German competitors. This led me to exclude the G35 from my short list. Therefore, it was a surprise to find out how good it is when, almost by chance, I drove 2004 and 2005 coupes. By all reports, the G37 retains the G35's strengths and improves on its weaknesses.

Certainly, there are significant differences among the cars I have mentioned. Those differences can be rated as magazines do in comparison tests. However, when you weight them according to a driver's desires and priorities, any one of the cars may come out on top. If your top priority is sharp handling, the Cayman is best. The 911 Turbo had, by far, the strongest acceleration. The 328Ci was the quietest and had the softest ride. On balance, even without considering cost, I prefer the Infiniti.

[AZhitman]

Keep in mind what Motor Trend's Car of the Year was...

...and ask why BMW motors are notably absent from "Best Engine" honors, while the VQ has been there for over a decade... EVERY year.

[Former_240_s14]

Hey AZ,

Dunno which engie award your talking about, however the N54 (the new twin turbo motor) just won the "Best Engine & best engine in its class" in the International Motor of the Year awards...

The BMW group dominated these awards, as usual winning more than half the awards given out.

Take a look......

http://www.leftlanenews.com/bm....html

Rubin

[audtatious]

Yes, Greggie is wrong on BMW not being there on a (nearly) yearly basis. Of course, the VQ has been on the Wards list for the last 11 years in a row which other automakers have yet to achieve..

[Former_240_s14]

Yes, Greggie is wrong on BMW not being there on a (nearly) yearly basis. Of course, the VQ has been on the Wards list for the last 11 years in a row which other automakers have yet to achieve..

Totally agreed! Nissan definately knows how to build a quality motor there is no doubt about it.

I am no dumby and I remember my roots and what got me to where I am at. I owe everything to this community and the friends I have gained from it.

Rubin

[ibpis]

335i FTW

[azcoupeman]

I respectfully disagree. If one looks at all of the comparison data between the 335 and the G37 I believe that the G37 is clearly the better value.

1) Acceleration: Slight advantage BMW2) Passing: Slight advantage G373) Slalom test: Slight advantage G374) Gas mileage: Advantage BMW5) Insurance cost: Advantage G376) Reliability: BIG advantage G377) Price: BIG advantage G37

The check marks for the G37 clearly outweigh those for the BMW. And for those that don't believe that the BMW has reliability issues I strongly suggest you check out the following link:

http://www.topix.net/forum/aut...ERRUF

Overheating turbosFuel pump failuresTransmission issuesGasket leaksSeatbelt problemsRun flat tires with <10,000 mile lifespan and high replacement costs

Clearly the Bimmer has some serious technical problems to overcome. The fact that they designed a turbocharged sports coupe without oil cooling should give anyone pause to buy one of the these things.

[Soravia]

I can't wait for the skyline to come out, should be a great competitor for the M3 and vice versa.

Rubin

I think the new M3 should be competing against the coming 370Z.The Godzilla belongs in Porche 911 Turbo/GT group.

We need 3000lb > S-16 NOW!

Bimmers are too expensive to repair, that alone pretty much equels to the price being added much more.The VQHR engine is still not really running to its potential. I expect to see it go much higher in the GT-R.Is the G37 Coupe called Skyline GT-S in Japan?Nissan should make a G37 with 6 speed and w/o AWS. That should make it a better car. Or maybe they'll call it 370Z.
Modified by Soravia at 10:37 PM 8/9/2007

[audtatious]

You mean the "possible" 370Z? When talking with Nissan corp techs they are not admitting that that will be the direction (tho I don't know why they wouldn't). I have also heard rumors of factory turbo for the Z using the VQ35HR in the future

FWIW, the 3.7 is the VQ37VHR

[Former_240_s14]

I respectfully disagree. If one looks at all of the comparison data between the 335 and the G37 I believe that the G37 is clearly the better value.

1) Acceleration: Slight advantage BMW2) Passing: Slight advantage G373) Slalom test: Slight advantage G374) Gas mileage: Advantage BMW5) Insurance cost: Advantage G376) Reliability: BIG advantage G377) Price: BIG advantage G37

The check marks for the G37 clearly outweigh those for the BMW. And for those that don't believe that the BMW has reliability issues I strongly suggest you check out the following link:

http://www.topix.net/forum/aut...ERRUF

Overheating turbosFuel pump failuresTransmission issuesGasket leaksSeatbelt problemsRun flat tires with <10,000 mile lifespan and high replacement costs

Clearly the Bimmer has some serious technical problems to overcome. The fact that they designed a turbocharged sports coupe without oil cooling should give anyone pause to buy one of the these things.

BMW has already taken care of these issues minus the seatbelt thing (and its not an issue, its just a querk)

We axed Simens who built the first batch of fuel pumps for the first half production year, now Bosch is handling that.

We offer oil coolers on all sports packages for vehicles built after the 1st half of the year also.

I have not heard of a single trans issue or gasket issue from our dealership or even on E90post.com (dedicated 06/07/08 3 series guys).

The run flat tires do last longer than 10k but I agree they are not performance oriented.

Lastly BMW does not charge for a single maitnence repair for the first 4 years of 50k miles. Not oil changes, brakes, service intervals, etc. All you pay for is gas and tires.

Rubin

[audtatious]

Yes, most of the "issues" of the 335 have been worked out at this point. Of course, they should not have been issues in the first place but we all know stuff like this happens with new cars.

From the "free oil change" perspective, I know many Infiniti dealerships throw that in as well as other basic maint over the B-B coverage. While I am not sure how BMW deals with customers (I assume they try and do a top-notch service and cater to them), from my experiences with Infiniti they do a great job with their customers (unlike some Nissan dealerships).

[azcoupeman]

"I have not heard of a single trans issue or gasket issue from our dealership"

I think you had better check again. Sounds like you are in serious denial regarding the 335i problems. I pasted below a few of the transmission comments from the link I provided: (And there are a lot more just like these posted on various websites)

mpizzo1United States Reply » |Flag |#2 Jul 9, 2007 I bought the first 335i in Baton Rogue in October. I got the 4 door. I had an '06 4 runner, but when I test drove this hot new car I made an impulse buy. The waiting list breathing down my neck didn't help. I just so happened to know the salesguy really well. He is no longer there, and now I have a car that spends more time in the shop than not. My TRANSMISSION jerks from gear to gear, especially during take-off and when coming to a stop. It is embarassing, and startles me ever time. The 335i drives like a dream on the interstate, but I can't help but think it is just not suited for the city.

ScottUnited States Reply » |Flag |#3 Tuesday Jul 31 I had the same problem with my 335.You are the first owner that I found that experienced the same transmision issue. I took it in to have it checked. They kept it for a week. I didn't really notice a difference after they returned it.Then the fuel pump went out and my car has been in the shop now for over 7 weeks. I just recieved word today for BMW cust relations that I will get a full refund. The transmission problem was the deciding factor.(see other blog comments related to the 335 fuel pressure pump problem for more info.

samOlympia, WA Reply » |Flag |#4 Thursday Aug 2 Also having problems with the auto trans being jumpy and feeling like it is fishing around for the right gear. It is embarrassing. With all that torque it is causing the car to lurch unexpectedly. I did not have the problem with the demo I drove and bought my car without a test drive (it was still being offloaded from the truck and needed detailing). There are looking at it this weekend. Hope they are owning up to the problems and fixing them.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Is it a ZF transmission in that bad boy? And do they offer a 6 speed FULL manual? (You know, those old school things with clutch pedals, and clutches, that RARELY have problems?). I have a friend at ZF, and I will be sure to bust his balls if it is a ZF problem.

And good call on switching to Bosch fuel pumps, they make damn good pumps (and I'm not just saying that cos I work there). What they lack in sparkplug, they make up for in fuel pump.

[Soravia]

Yeah, why are people so lazy now a day? Their right hand is too tied-up with cell-phones and text messages? Nav system is voice controlled.

[Former_240_s14]

Is it a ZF transmission in that bad boy? And do they offer a 6 speed FULL manual? (You know, those old school things with clutch pedals, and clutches, that RARELY have problems?). I have a friend at ZF, and I will be sure to bust his balls if it is a ZF problem.

And good call on switching to Bosch fuel pumps, they make damn good pumps (and I'm not just saying that cos I work there). What they lack in sparkplug, they make up for in fuel pump.

Yes they do make true manual transmissions, the auto is actually an option that cost an extra $1,275, the manual is standard

[Former_240_s14]

"I have not heard of a single trans issue or gasket issue from our dealership"

I think you had better check again. Sounds like you are in serious denial regarding the 335i problems. I pasted below a few of the transmission comments from the link I provided: (And there are a lot more just like these posted on various websites)

I encourage you to go to E90post.com or bimmerfest.com to check it out. The instances you are referring are extremely rare and they lie within the transmission maker. I doubt I am in denail since I have openally admitted all faults other than these two. I think there needs to be a significant number of vehicles having this problem (like the fuel pump issue) to be considered a hinderance to purchase.

Like papasmurf has said.....why not go with the manual transmission.

[torbach1]

Former_240:

I think some of your points are valid. However if you haven't yet driven an '07 G35 or 08 G37, you'll be in for a pleasant surprise in terms of how similar they are to the E90/92 BMW's in confidence, etc. Infiniti also has a better reputation in terms of reliability, and frankly, I think BMW owners and fans also owe a lot to Infiniti and others for keeping BMW on it's toes - as much as Infiniti and others owe BMW for being the class leaders and creating such fantastic cars.

Finally, looking at this review, if they had to take the fuel pump issues that the current 335i has (see http://www.bimmerfest.com/foru...+pump), with no fix in site, the thousands of people waiting for replacement fuel pumps, in many cases multiple replacements needed, and then you add that to the lack of an oil cooler that they mentioned (see http://www.bimmerfest.com/foru...+pump), I think that regardless of price, I would be very worried about purchasing the BMW 335i right now - especially in light of my own terrible experiences with BMW's service department (at VOB BMW).

BMW screwed up with the fuel pump and oil cooler issues in the 335i, and the question now is only how long it will take them to own up to the problem. Taking all that into account, I'd say that the G37's win is absolutely fair.

Regards,Tamir

[Former_240_s14]

Former_240:

I think some of your points are valid. However if you haven't yet driven an '07 G35 or 08 G37, you'll be in for a pleasant surprise in terms of how similar they are to the E90/92 BMW's in confidence, etc. Infiniti also has a better reputation in terms of reliability, and frankly, I think BMW owners and fans also owe a lot to Infiniti and others for keeping BMW on it's toes - as much as Infiniti and others owe BMW for being the class leaders and creating such fantastic cars.

Finally, looking at this review, if they had to take the fuel pump issues that the current 335i has (see http://www.bimmerfest.com/foru...+pump), with no fix in site, the thousands of people waiting for replacement fuel pumps, in many cases multiple replacements needed, and then you add that to the lack of an oil cooler that they mentioned (see http://www.bimmerfest.com/foru...+pump), I think that regardless of price, I would be very worried about purchasing the BMW 335i right now - especially in light of my own terrible experiences with BMW's service department (at VOB BMW).

BMW screwed up with the fuel pump and oil cooler issues in the 335i, and the question now is only how long it will take them to own up to the problem. Taking all that into account, I'd say that the G37's win is absolutely fair.

Regards,Tamir

Tamir,

First off, thank you for the mautre response. You bring up good points, however I think I have some additional points to add to my perspective.

In terms of reliablity please check this link that was just posted today by Left Lane News, http://www.leftlanenews.com/vw....html . As you can see the Infiniti G35 is in the top 10 for most recalled vehicles in 2007. This is clearly a win for the BMW.

Also BMW has been doing do diligence on the fuel pump issue and oil cooler issue. Since March 2007 production of the 335i we have switched to a new fuel pump supplier and are now offering oil coolers on every vehicle with sport package (I have not looked at the XI models yet however.)

An I would agree with you that BMW and MB both owe it to the Japanese for keeping them working overtime to be justifiably more expensive ; ).

Thanks for the great post!

Rubin

[onusigep]

That sucks that the coupe is recalled so often. I have a 03 Sedan and I had hardly any recalls, 2 that I can remember.

Seems like they should be on the same page with respect to that, but I guess not. maybe it was because it was the first production year of a car that Infiniti knew was a winner and needed to be rock solid.

Hopefully, this time around I have the same luck. I hope they're not over extending themselves this time.

[Kendahl]

I hope they're not over extending themselves this time.

Time will tell. Infiniti got the G35 mostly right to start with. The G37 is a just a revised G35 coupe. It was a much bigger step for BMW to go from the 330 to the 335. Everyone talks about problems with the 335. I wonder how the 328 is doing. (Except for the expletive-deleted run-flat tires.)

[KinsmanRedeemer]

I looked at the article you cited, and it states that the total number of recalls issued for the G35 Coupe is around 23,000.

That's a function of how many cars are sold--not the number of recall issues. The upshot from the article is that Infiniti has sold a lot of G35 coupes--shocker.

[Former_240_s14]

I looked at the article you cited, and it states that the total number of recalls issued for the G35 Coupe is around 23,000.

That's a function of how many cars are sold--not the number of recall issues. The upshot from the article is that Infiniti has sold a lot of G35 coupes--shocker.

Good point, but out of the 23000 units they sold they had a higher percentage of recalls than any BMW

From all that I have researched I have seen no issues with the 328, the motor and technology for that has been out for some time. In my honest opinion the 328 actually is the car that replaces the old 330 due to the extra power. This car makes you appreciate the extra 15hp from the time you hit the gas pedal on.

Rubin

[KinsmanRedeemer]

I don't know what point you're trying to make, but if you find the link on one of the other discussions around here about the hundreds of fuel pumps on back order, oil cooling issues, transmission issues, etc..., what you're seeing is that BMW's 335 is not exactly a poster child for reliability.

Compounded, they should at least issue a RECALL for the fuel pump issue, which they haven't, as far as I know.

The recalls I can find for the G35 seem mostly to do with brake lights and other ancillary matters. The good news is that Infiniti at least has the manhood to issue a recall when necessary rather than waiting for you to go into "limp mode" and have to call a tow truck.