Is this dealer strange ? Or am I ?

[math]

Hello. I'm new on the forum. And recent owner of a brand new Nissan car.
Few weeks after buying we discovered a damage well hidden, MADE by the dealer. Impossible to see when we took the car.
It on the inside of the door, can only see it when door is open, even so normally covered by the rubber seal. It is an unfinished hole, finger size.
Call our friendly contact, went there. First opinion: "never seen such thing before, let me check, I will call you" Do you want to take a picture ? "No it's OK".
Took 10 days, WE CALLED many times to arrange new visit in order to solve it. Not big deal but not acceptable either.
Two hours waiting, tough internal discussion. We could not hear it,
At the end they told us it is our responsibility and charge to repair it, if we want to. Unbelievable.
We requested a written statement, paper or email. Not possible !
I bought and service many cars, faced lot of unhappy experiences. This one is worst ever. It is not about the cost, it's about absolute bad will towards a new customer.

[numbnuts240]

you found a second base glory hole in your door?

i'm sorry, could you elaborate more clearly. i'm having a hard time figuring out what you're trying to say.

[frapjap]

This sounds like an interesting story. Do you have any photos to upload?

[math]

Short story: one month after buying a new Nissan, we discovered this hole, unfinished, obviously made by the dealer.
After ten days and tough internal discussions (we were just waiting in the showroom) dealer told us we have to go elsewhere and pay if we want to repair it. They do not have a bodyshop !
Will add pictures as soon as I find how to do it.

[math]

Please help. I did not figure how to add an image. FAQ says: "If the administrator has allowed attachments, you may be able to upload the image to the board."

[centralcoaster33]

Please follow these instructions for posting a picture:
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/upload ... imgur.html

Just take a stab at it and put some links in there. If it's not working a moderator can probably help you fix it.

I want to see this hole! Please post a picture.

[szh]

Weird! Would love to see pictures too ...

Z

[Rogue One]

Please help. I did not figure how to add an image. FAQ says: "If the administrator has allowed attachments, you may be able to upload the image to the board."

Normally new members have limited access when posting on NICO. Due to the interest in your topic I've moved you from the new member area, so you should be able to post images without any problems. The directions below should be of help to you.

How-to Upload Images Using Imgur
How to post pictures using photobucket

1) Log into your FREE photobucket account.
2) Click on one recently uploaded picture. (You MUST post them INDIVIDUALLY.)
3) On the right side of the screen you'll see SHARE LINKS (see image below).
4) Left click on the box next to IMG. You'll see a confirmation that it copied the link.
5) Paste as a reply in this thread. It's already formatted with the correct tags.
6) Click the submit button.




If you're still having a problem posting images, I'll do what I can to help out.

[math]

Thank you guys. Hope you can see it now. Dealer and car are in Texas.

[rgregoryb]

Looks like a hole made by a "fix a dent" company. Your car must have had a dent in the door. Measure the opening go to hardware store buy a rubber plug and all is good.

[Buzzman]

If that was up here in Canada, I would have said it was a hole drilled for the rustproofing stuff.
I have all kinds of those holes in my truck and car (oil sprayed every year), and the rustproofing folks just plug them up with a plastic cap.
Having said that, I see that there are also some scuff marks on the door edge, probably from the drill.
Also, what is that greens stuff coming out of the rain hole at the bottom?
Very suspicious all around.
Ask more questions at the dealership. Something's fishy.

[math]

1. Regarding technical side, rubber plug ... it is OK. I agree it is not big deal. But..
2. It's my brand new car. Good looking, quiet, comfortable, fuel efficient. Would you accept somebody making a hole in your new car, without telling you ?
3. Out of question to go back to that dealer. Most probably they had a reason, "fix a dent", but this is not the point. Why not telling us about ? Why did they think about 10 days ? Why not proposing a solution ? Why not a written statement about the issue ?
4. It is the first car experience in North America. Some Texan friends told me all dealerships are more or less the same. Is this true ? Are these guys just a standard dealer/attitude ? Please remember the first post. No email whatsoever during buying and hole process, just talking, talking, talking... BTW they never called us back. We had to call and insist. For me it's still a SF story.

[rgregoryb]

According to most state laws dealerships do not have to tell you about any damage that does not exceed 6% of the cars retail price, unless you ask prior to purchase.

Yes most dealers will take advantage of you in a heartbeat. That is why they are called "stealerships".

I have a hole similar to that on the bottom of my hood on my CRV. Car was about a week old and I dropped a box on the hood got a fix a dent company to repair it. Pissed me off at the time but never affected any thing about the car.

You have learned a valuable lesson. They are not going to do anything to help you, and I know it sucks on your new car, but just drive it and enjoy it!

[math]

I quote your statement "dealerships do not have to tell you about any damage that does not exceed 6% of the cars retail price, unless you ask prior to purchase".
Is this a joke ? When you buy a new car, it may be 6% damaged ?
Most probably it's about the market. If regular customer does not complain, dealers just don't care.
And be sure I asked. By email also. No written answer whatsoever. Just talking, talking....

Let's say I learned a buying lesson, and next time, I will check the car 4 hours together with 2 mates.
But what about maintenance, if all are more or less the same, where should I go ? This specific dealer will never touch my car again.
Usually, are there reliable independent workshops with all necessary software, experience and tools ?

And BTW, what should happen in a dealership, in order to be considered dishonest and unacceptable ? Because if they are "covered" on my issue, they may be "covered" for any damage they made during maintenance or repair, or for any unjustified amount they charge.

[rgregoryb]

If it is cosmetic damage and is repaired then yes the dealer does not have to disclose the damage if less than 6%. If the damage is to the unibody or strut towers etc. They have to disclose any damages.
You asked, but you asked after you purchased the car. You have to ask before purchase.
Check around and find a competent shop near you. The dealer will always try to upsell you on service.

[math]

I requested them by email BEFORE taking the car, to confirm there is no problem and if any to show upon delivery. No reply. No written answer during buying process (4-5 days) no written answer during hole process 10 days.

Are they allowed to damage your car during repair ? And not even tell you ? 6% of what, of door price, of car price ?

If this is not dishonest, nothing is. I assume you guys are regular Nissan owners, cannot believe you accept such BS. Sorry, but the problem is not with the seller but with buyer.

Now I understand oil change is part of the same story. 6 month or 5000 miles
In Europe Rogue is called Xtrail. Oil change: 1 year or 18000 miles ! A french car of mine is 12 years old has service interval 12500 miles or 2 YEARS. It's in perfect shape today around 78000 miles.
Have seen yesterday a long term review with a 2014 Rogue, those guys drove in one year 22000 miles and spent $648 on maintenence (just oil and some filters FOUR TIMES) !?! If customers are happy and pay for all we ask ... why not ?
Probably step by step we will answer the topic. Dealership is just smart.

[rgregoryb]

After more research I found out that Texas does not require dealers to disclose any cosmetic damage repaired no matter the amount of damage. Only damage to structural components have to be revealed.

[darylzero]

After more research I found out that Texas does not require dealers to disclose any cosmetic damage repaired no matter the amount of damage. Only damage to structural components have to be revealed.

s*** I guess you have to ask for the carfax with new cars now.

I wonder if you ran a carfax on your car what would come up.

[math]

Let's be positive:
1. I buy cars on long term and take good care. May I hope the car manufacturing in US is better than stealershipping in US ?
2. Probably buying a car in North Korea is worse.

Regarding maintenance interval, don't you have any comments ? This is about Nissan, not about dealers.

[Bubba1]

I'll take a shot at your questions

1. Regarding technical side, rubber plug ... it is OK. I agree it is not big deal. But...

Since it is a small dollar fix, you should keep that in perspective given the time/effort you spend fighting it. At some point very quickly, the fight will cost more than the repair. Ask yourself if spending that much money/effort is worth proving you were right. Or should you perhaps call it lesson learned, buy a rubber grommet, stick it in the hole, and enjoy the car. That's your call as it's your time/money.

2. It's my brand new car. Good looking, quiet, comfortable, fuel efficient. Would you accept somebody making a hole in your new car, without telling you ?.

Personally? probably not. But to be blunt, that's what pre delivery inspections are for. I do recognize that one would not expect to see something like that in a new car pre-delivery inspection, but that's why it's part of the sales process. You just got stung. You have to accept at least a small part of the blame for not inspecting the car enough before taking it off the lot. I know that really sucks but it's true. One thing you must consider is that the dealer may not have had any idea either. That dent-pull hole could have just as easily been done before the dealer even took delivery. It could have been repaired at anytime from the plant to the delivery at the dealer. If that's the case, then it sounds like the dealer also did a poor job of an inbound inspection and/or pre-customer delivery inspection.

3. Out of question to go back to that dealer. Most probably they had a reason, "fix a dent", but this is not the point. Why not telling us about ? Why did they think about 10 days ? Why not proposing a solution ? Why not a written statement about the issue ?.

They are covered by regulations and the contract you signed. I believe the regulation is notification only if it represents 6% of the value of the car or if it's a structural repair. Appears it was neither in your case. so there was no legal reason for them to divulge anything to you. Ethically, if they knew about it, yes, perhaps they could have mentioned it. But ethics are not part of the contract. Sorry. Also, you've concluded the dealer did it. Might have happened earlier. Yes, if I were the dealer, I'd buy a $3 rubber grommet and pop it in. I imagine in your case they simply took a hard defensive posture as most dealers do. I've had warranty issues with several new cars I've purchased, it's very common and not exclusive to Nissan. And I've had some disputes that went the regional reps for resolution. Fortunately, I've never lost a claim, though my claims involved more significant repairs than this case.

4. It is the first car experience in North America. Some Texan friends told me all dealerships are more or less the same. Is this true ? Are these guys just a standard dealer/attitude ? Please remember the first post. No email whatsoever during buying and hole process, just talking, talking, talking... BTW they never called us back. We had to call and insist. For me it's still a SF story.

Your Texan friends are incorrect. Not all dealers are bad. Though it is common for many dealers to become defensive about spending anything extra, as they are focused on profit. A good dealer will try to do what's necessary to give you a good experience to entice you to be a returning customer, but not all dealers share that view. It's not a requirement. Clearly, there are both good and bad dealers, including Nissan ones. The expression is called "caveat emptor" (latin for "buyer beware"). That means you must do research before choosing a new car dealer to help avoid dealing with a bad one. If you did not research, then you rolled the dice, and it appears it burned you. And in anticipation of "that's the only Nissan dealer around", I answer that once you decide on what you want for a new car, you can easily travel. For example, I have a friend who travelled by plane to pick up his new corvette. Drama free experience, and he got a great deal. He also had fun driving it home. There is also no requirement that you must have your car serviced at the dealer from whom you purchased.

So to answer your thread title questions, the answer is no to both. Neither of you are strange. I sympathize with your situation, but at the end of the day, it's pretty minor, and will not impact the usage or value of your car. Enjoy your new Nissan and I hope that offers some perspective.

And welcome.

[math]

It is reasonable what you're saying.

But ethics are not part of the contract

Are you sure ?

By my standards is simply stupid to push away a long term customer. It is about maintenance, spares, repairs, second or third car, friends and family, buy back... Business is growing much faster with ethics and happy customers.
This dealer pissed on us with absolutely no reason. If they would have told us about the hole, or at least explain what happened after we discovered it.... They took the rude and dishonest attitude all the way, with no benefit.
Nothing to do with technical side, contract or lawyers.

Is it relevant for you to pay for maintenance every 6 month and 5000 miles, compared to 1 year or 18000 month for same car in Europe ? Dealer is one more time covered by contract and by Nissan rules but how do you feel ? Rich ??

[math]

Sorry, it is 1 year or 18 000 miles the oil change interval.

[Bubba1]

Yes, I'm sure. There is no right or wrong when dealing with auto sales contracts. it's whether it's in or not in the contract that counts. It's that simple. And that applies regardless of make dealer. You seem like an ethical person, but just because you're ethical does NOT mean everyone else is ethical. Your experience is glaring proof that not all dealers act ethically. They're all not bad, but there are dealers that are far more focused on short term sales quotas and profits, than they are on customer retention. Yes, absolutely, they SHOULD be doing it differently, and this particular dealer SHOULD have handled it differently, but as you've just learned the hard way, some DON"T wANT TO. And you're not going to change them, no matter how much you complain. As a consumer, your best defense is not doing business with those bad ones. And if you only want to do business with an ethical dealer, then you MUST research the dealer before you make a deal. There's no getting around that. To be blunt, you got hosed this time because you didn't research the dealer. You assumed they were ethical and you assumed wrong, Now you're pissed off and no one blames you, BUT learn from that experience and don't make the same mistake the next time you buy a car. Caveat Emptor, my friend. Do your homework before committing next time.

edit:
As far as differing maintenance intervals between the US and Europe. I suspect the differences are explainable. First, the 18,000 figure is probably KILOMETERS, not miles. Second, the longer change interval could simply be the type of oil spec'd. In the US market, perhaps the OEM oil is old fashioned dino or maybe a lower grade synthetic, not a premium synthetic. like Mobil1. And in Europe for the same model, they might instead spec a premium synthetic oil OEM, which, by coincidence, has a much longer change interval than regular oil. Feel free to do some research and prove me wrong. It's good practice. Another factor to consider is that the US is far more lawsuit crazy than Europe. Combine that with the average American (certainly not all) being lazy about checking fluids/air pressure. I suspect a shorter oil change interval might help address those shortcomings. Food for thought.

[MaximA32]

Sorry, it is 1 year or 18 000 miles the oil change interval.

The service interval for a 2016 Rogue is 6 months or 5,000 miles, whichever comes first. Nissan also recommends that you use 0w-20 synthetic in MY16 and newer Rogue/Altima/Sentra/Versa. Please make sure that you review the maintenance requirements outlined in your owner's manual in order to properly maintain all factory warranties.

[float_6969]

It's pretty much all been covered, but here's my $.02.

The hole sucks. Who knows who made it or who's responsible for it. I'd be willing to bet the dealer didn't know about it either. Doesn't seem fair to blame them when you don't actually know how it got there. And while it does suck that they didn't want to help you, what could they do? They'd probably put a rubber grommet in there. The only other options are to remove the door, sand the paint down, weld the hole up, repaint the door and re-install it. And while that would fix the hole, it would be VERY costly, and would likely devalue the vehicle more than putting a plug in the hole. Any time body work is done on a new vehicle, it's usually obvious. Getting paint to match perfectly is nearly impossible, so anyone with a trained eye will know that door had been repainted. Seems like a lot of trouble for a hole that you, and quite possibly the dealer, missed for quite a while. And lets be honest here, if the hole had been plugged with a grommet, it would have looked like a factory hole, and you probably wouldn't have EVER noticed it.

As for the oil change intervals, I have to assume you're confusing KILOMETERS and MILES. 18K MILES on an oil change is too much for any oil. It has nothing to do with the engine. 18K Kilometers is a little over 10K Miles (rough math in my head), which is longer than I would go, but within reason for a good quality synthetic oil and a brand new engine. There is an old mantra in the US to change the oil every 3K Miles. Being a car guy, and understanding that is actually pretty low and today's oils are much better and can go longer, doesn't ever seem to make me any less anxious when I see 3K miles since my last oil change. I'll be the first to admit I probably change my oil too often on most of my cars. The only ones I don't are the two I have running on synthetic, and even on those, I only go to 6K miles, which is probably WAY less than what they could go. And really, what everyone should be doing, is taking oil samples and having them analyzed and basing oil change intervals on that instead. But that's a PITA, so we do it on mileage and/time, and we tend to error on the safe side. We like to keep our cars a LONG time here in the US. My work truck just turned over 360,000 miles on it yesterday. It's a 1999 Chevy C2500. I'll likely keep it for a couple more years before I replace it and it will have over 400,000 miles on it by then. In it's current state, I think it could likely go over 500,000 miles, but the body is getting pretty rusty and since it's a business vehicle, I want a good looking vehicle to represent my company.

In closing, I can completely understand why that situation sucks. If I was in your shoes, I'd be upset too. But in the scheme of things it's a REALLY minor issue, you don't actually know who's responsible, and there's nothing you can do to fix it that won't devalue the car and cost a lot of money. So if it were me, I would take this as a lesson learned, and the next time I bought a car, I would be MUCH more thorough in my pre-delivery inspection.

[math]

Caveat Emptor, my friend. Do your homework before committing next time.

OK understand you consider I did something wrong, not doing my homework and research, not checking the car, not knowing the difference between miles and kilometers, spending money to prove I'm right..... then you sympathize. What would you comment if you don't sympathize ?

If you question anything I say (maybe dealer did not know, maybe km not miles, maybe premium oil....) would be more difficult, but I am sure most people understand.

As you know and confirm US oil change for Rogue is every 6 month or 5000 miles whichever occurs first.
Nissan Xtrail/Rogue in Europe oil change every 12 month or 18 750 miles (30 000 km in the maintenance manual) whichever occurs first. 1 mile = 1.6 km. Dealership has Nissan branded oil 5W30 but if you bring your own 5W30 it is OK. They ask a slightly higher labor rate. No problem with warranty.
My french diesel car, oil change every 24 month or 12500 miles (20 000 km) whichever occurs first. Oil recommended by manufacturer 5W40 Total Quartz 9000. The only oil I used so far, 12 years old, oil change every 2 years.

Caveat Emptor... nice ... but this applies mainly to products not covered by a strict warranty. And maybe you're right, maybe Nissan new cars are such a products. Because they know about these problems and they support dealerships. Oil change is Nissan 100%.

I still think US is most about integrity, transparency, ethics, courtesy and respect. And fortunately, my family's experience in Texas confirms it. And we are all happy with this car. Looked for a deal, not for a dealer. Probably I'll do the same next time. More carefully with both car and contract. Learned a lot from this strange experience and from your comments. It is about feeling not about wrong or right. Without much effort nor cost, I hope those crooks will get the reputation they deserve.

[Bubba1]

I'd probably be far more blunt if I didn't sympathize. But having been in your shoes before, (buying a new vehicle that had some defects), plus having worked for dealers, and count some good dealer owners as friends, I do have some sympathy for you. But that may change as I read your responses . And Caveat Emptor absolutely applies. Enjoy your day.

[math]

Looks like you have to change the name of this topic "Latin for foreigners"

"Caveat Emptor in Practice
A more common example is a used car transaction between two private parties (as opposed to a dealership, in which the sale is subject to an implied warranty). The buyer must take on the responsibility of thoroughly researching and inspecting the car—perhaps taking it to a mechanic for a closer look—before finalizing the sale. If something comes up after the sale, maybe a transmission failure, it is not the seller's responsibility."
(consumer.findlaw.com)

In the US alone, consumers regained $98 million in compensation for shoddy cars or lousy services by car dealers, in 2013.

Oil change for Rogue in US: 0W20 is generally more expensive and better quality than 5W30. If you drive a lot, you must change it almost 4 times more often ! Many dealers (maybe most of them), with Nissan support, are just wasting your time and grubbing for your money. Think twice before paying for their "turbo encabulators".

[math]

by float_6969 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:18 pm
I'd be willing to bet the dealer didn't know about it either. Doesn't seem fair to blame them when you don't actually know how it got there.

You look like a nice person, who cares about own cars. Could you please explain why (again) most comments starts by doubting the facts ?
Because:
1) Dealer knew about the hole. Salesman is a good person, said me next day he is very sorry, not his call, cannot help. Probably not easy to get a job, fighting with management is out of question.
And I did more homework than most of you. Many Nissan dealers, checked also Mazda and Hyundai. Found the new car, nice trim nice colour, very good deal, and arrange all details from overseas. My wife and a friend checked the car. Before payment and few days later at delivery. I asked dealer by phone and email to show them if any problem of the car. In the right position, rubber seal covers the hole it's almost impossible to notice it. In fact they did not make a new hole, they just enlarge (with no care) an existing hole to fix-a-dent.
The only mistake was probably to trust them until final decision. It was rude and short. They fixed the rubber seal and about hole: "Not our problem, go away !" Did not argue about. Sent another email with explanation and pictures, requesting a written statement about the issue. No reply.
Send pictures to Nissan and a week later somebody called us (DO NOT KNOW THE NAME nor EMAIL ADDRESS: "it is a contract between you and dealership we cannot interfere". No written proof whatsoever, no answer by email, no name, no responsibility.
In Europe you get an answer from both dealership and manufacturer. Fast, signed and stamped. Maybe you don't like it, but then you have a proof and you can fight. They may be bad but not like that. Such attitude and decision are beyond imagination.

Technically is not big deal I agree with all of you. Please stop arguing about. We are not crazy, to consider removing door, repairing, painting... It is just about a company pissing on me and my wife without any reason, without any benefit.
BTW may I mention the name of the dealer ?

2) 1 mile = 1.6 km. Service interval Nissan Xtrail 12 month or 30 000 km whichever occurs first. Indicated in the service manual and car brochure. In US they are just grubbing for your money, there is no technical reason whatsoever. 5000 vs 18750 miles. And do you have time to visit dealership 4 times more often ? Time and money. If you want to start another discussion and explain the small turbo engines made in Europe are much better, European oil is better... let's go. I don't think so.
I do not know much about other manufacturers in US. But I noticed every dealer I contacted avoided any contact by email, any written answer, statement, quotation .... On all websites there is no email address.

[Dattebayo]

NO offence, but it sounds like you are just sounding off about some personal outrage...