Interesting OIL development for winter and beyond

[PalmerWMD]

We have lately discussed much on viscosities and base stock here:http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....37349

Another interesting development in the oil scene I have been watching, but wanted to wait, until us oil nuts on the oil sites, get a better consensus going, before I report this oil here on NICO:

As we all know the Castrol Syntec line is a group III base oil and has not performed well in oil analyses, even when compared to castrol GTX a great dino oil , with much lower price.

BUT in recent months castrol has qietly rebadged the famous EuropeanGerman Castrol SLX for US sale in a 0w-30 weight. its pour point (and pumpability) is <much> better at low temps than even MOBIL1 0w-30 despite being much thicker at 100C ( running temps).

This is likely achieved with at least a group IV more likely a group V base oil.

That would put it on a par with Redline ( group V) which is more expensive due to use of expensive base stock ( group V).

Since winter is coming and this is an excellent winter oil, I didnt want to wait much longer before I mentioned it here.

An absoutelty excellent choice for low mile engines due to its great start -up capability, but still good in hard running and its high hot running thickness for a 30 weight, means it will also do well in looser engines.

Some may say: "Fred, whats up you always say to stick with 40 weights, like M1 0w-40, even in winter ,cuz they have good boundary layer protection and now you recommend a 0w-30?"

The solution to the riddle is, that this new Castrol Syntec 0w-30 is an unusually thick 30 weight, about 25% higher hot running viscosity then MOBIL1 in a 0w-30 , actually it just barely misses being classified as a 40 weight.

At the same time it has the superior cold start characteristics of a group V so this is likely a group V oil.

Also it meets ACEA A3 some thing 0w-30's generally dont, even if from good synthetic stock.

Now Beware: very few places carry it ( usually AutoZone does). many still carry the "old" 0w-30 Syntec, Look at the bottle:If it says "meets ACEA A3" and "Made in Germany" its the good stuff.Redline level oil for the price of Syntec!

If you buy the 0w-30 Syntec <be sure> its the stuff I mentioned above, as the regular Syntec ( basically same label except for the flags I mentioned) is not all that great and only meets ACEA A1 Something that can be achived or exeeced by a good blend such As Valvoline Durablend ( at much lower price)

While I will likely stick with my M1 0w-40 for now, I want to make members aware of this especially those that live in cold climates, yet don't wish to sacrifice hard running protection for cold start protection.

Fred...

[PalmerWMD]

Also -62 degrees C pour point....while still 12.2 Cst at 100C...

Fred...

[crypt2k]

so whats a good w40 non-synthetic oil.

[PalmerWMD]

so whats a good w40 non-synthetic oil.

Valvoline Durablend 10w-40 ( Blend) Castrol GTX 10w-40 ( dino)

Fred...

[Onizuka]

kewl, thanks for the info!

i got another question, im going to be finishing up my SR swap this winter, so i was wondering if this "famous EuropeanGerman Castrol SLX for US sale in a 0w-30 weight" is safe for a turbo motor and winter usage? Or do you suggest a heavier weight oil?

[PalmerWMD]

I generally lean toward heavier oils when it comes to turbos even in winter.My recommendation would be for a turbo i Mobil 15w-50 in summer and M1 0w-40 or Castrol Syntec 0w-30( the new ACEA A3 stuff ONLY!) in winter.

But MOBIL1 0w-40 can be used in Summer in milder climates, which would make this a year around oil.

In my N/A car I am current ly running M1 0w-40 and intend to stay year arpound ( though its tempting to try this CastolSyntec 0w-30 which is nearly a 40 weight but w/o used oil analyses ( for which i am currently too busy, I wont be able to tell which oil runs better.)

Fred...

[UncleBen]

So Fred, for winter you think this new Castrol Synthetic would be the best oil to run for the winter season? And would also be a great oil for a hard-run motor? I dont run my motor "hard" by anymeans, but it does see some of the higher RPM's sometimes. And if I didn't want to switch to this oil, what do you recomend? Right now I'm running Valvoline Synpower 5w-40....

[PalmerWMD]

The Valvoline SYnPower 5w-40 is a good oil, a former favorite of mine as you recall and will do well in a N/A car as a year around oil in KY.

But this new german castrol oil (which is as hard to find as the SynPower 5w-40), will do excellently as a winter oil.

Likely more helpful in the more extreme north though.But you could run it in your engine with as much confidence as the SynPower if you wanted.

Fred..

[PalmerWMD]

Also remember folks many, if not most, places still sell the "older" Castrol 0w-30. So look carefully to make sure u get the right stuff.

Fred...

[Onizuka]

thanks fred!

[Cold_Zero]

Fred,What do you think about the VR-1 from Valvoline? I saw it in the store today. Would it make a good summer engine oil? I thought it was 20W-50.

bud

[UncleBen]

Are you not a fan of mobil1 much anymore fred?

[prigo]

I love living in Southern California, I don't have to switch back and forth for summer/winter

[PalmerWMD]

Are you not a fan of mobil1 much anymore fred?

Mobil1 is still one of my favorite brands.And its MOBIL1 0w-40 is nearly unbetable.But as a winter oil that German Syntec 0w-30 might be a match or better.

Plus my Autozone here actually has it in stock, where as its been nearly impossible here to find a full 6 quarts of M1 0w-40.

Fred..

[[Zero-S]]

I use VR-1, and haven't had any problems with it...

[PalmerWMD]

Fred,What do you think about the VR-1 from Valvoline? I saw it in the store today. Would it make a good summer engine oil? I thought it was 20W-50.

bud

its a racing oil formulation wich you dont want for street applications.Racing oil means little or no anti rust additives, little or no detergents.

Fred...

[Cold_Zero]

I changed my oil Sunday night from Mobil One 15w-50 to Mobile One 0w-40. Since it has been cooler here in Indiana and will get considerably colder this winter I think that 0w-40 will work just fine.

I do have some concerns with the oil I just pulled out. I change my oil ever 3k mi. and I am currently at 12k mi. on my odometer. The first two oil fills (from the factory) were done with Valvoline Durablend 5w-30. The rest of the oil changes have had Mobil One 15w-50. The past couple of oil changes, the oil has been pitch black. Is this natural for a 2.0 turbo charged car? I suspect that with a K&N drop in filter element, warm weather this summer and the gas in Indiana may be contributing factors to this. How does one go about getting an oil analysis done to their oil? I still have my oil in a fruit juice jug and would like to find out what all is going on in my engine from the oils stand point.

bud

[PalmerWMD]

google search for blackstone Labs.

They will send u an oil anaysis kit to fill and send back to them.

Fred..

PS: I didnt know you had a K&N, that explains the oil darkness some..

[PalmerWMD]

so whats a good w40 non-synthetic oil.

Also another answer to your question and additional excellent dino oil ( even tho I still prefer syns but the best dinos outperform the weakest syns)

Pennzoil Long Life 15w-40vis @ 100C = 15.5cStHT/HS @ 150C = 4.3cP

Fred..

[Mayhem_J30]

Fred,Are there any comparisons of oils when around certain operating temps? Say 280F?

[PalmerWMD]

yes:

HT/HS is taken at 150C=292F

and reflect an oils ability to withstand High temperature/High Shear conditions and still largely prevent metal to metal contact.

In order for an oil to meet ACEA A3 ( The toughest Industry standrd on this) it has to be at least 3.5 or better.many non syn oil in 30 weights run in the 2's for HTHS.

it's not the only important factor, deposit control volatilty control, detergency, solvency, foaming resistance, rust inhibiton are just some of the other parameters important for an oil and aall of theses are also addressed in ACEA series specs, ( as they are in SL, GM4718M and others)

It is very dificult to have an oil meet A3 in a 30 weight the thicker an oil becomes the easier it can meet this spec.

But non syn oils cant meet it even as 50 weight, a couple of rare Blends can as a 40 weight and in a 30 weight only a very few select oils can meet ACEA A3.

Valvoline SYnpower meets A3, castrol Syntec doesnt meet A3 in any 30 weight EXCEPT for the non advertised special imported batches ( look for "made in germany on the back and ACEA A3), Mbil1 0w-40 and Mobil1 15w-40 met it.

Many of the hardest specs published by manufacturers use thos spec as a back bone to teirs excpet they usually add something, like a tougher stability requirement or some such.

Of course HTHS is only important in engines that are either powerful or driven hard or have high powerdensity or are turbo charged.

In your case all 4 conditons apply which is why HTHS is important to you.

Fred..

[Mayhem_J30]

Thanks that is exactly what I needed.

It appears that Valvoline does not release their HTHS Viscosity as Mobil 1 synthetic has it clearly labeled in the specs.The only Valvoline synpower oils that meat ACEA A3 is the 20W-50 and the 5W-40.Mobil 1 syn has the 15w-50 that meets the A3.It's also interesting to note that Valvoline Durablend 10W40, 15W40 and 20W50 meet A3 standards.

Fred, are you saying to meet the A3 rating you have to pass the HTHS test?

What else concerns me is the Viscosity at 100C and 40C. Maybe if I could understand the values of cSt better I would feel more comfortable. The cSt of A3 oils seems to be 2x the value of other oils. ie:Vsynpower 20w50 cSt @ 40C=155.42Vsynpower 10W30 cSt @ 40C=65.67Mobil1 15W15 cSt @ 40C=125Mobil1 10W30 cSt @ 40C=62Results (differences) are similar at 100C. What does this really mean? And how are these ratings relating to the HTHS ratings Mobil1 offers? The HTHS viscosity units are in mPa*s (when at 150C).

yes:

HT/HS is taken at 150C=292F

and reflect an oils ability to withstand High temperature/High Shear conditions and still largely prevent metal to metal contact.

In order for an oil to meet ACEA A3 ( The toughest Industry standrd on this) it has to be at least 3.5 or better.many non syn oil in 30 weights run in the 2's for HTHS.

it's not the only important factor, deposit control volatilty control, detergency, solvency, foaming resistance, rust inhibiton are just some of the other parameters important for an oil and aall of theses are also addressed in ACEA series specs, ( as they are in SL, GM4718M and others)

It is very dificult to have an oil meet A3 in a 30 weight the thicker an oil becomes the easier it can meet this spec.

But non syn oils cant meet it even as 50 weight, a couple of rare Blends can as a 40 weight and in a 30 weight only a very few select oils can meet ACEA A3.

Valvoline SYnpower meets A3, castrol Syntec doesnt meet A3 in any 30 weight EXCEPT for the non advertised special imported batches ( look for "made in germany on the back and ACEA A3), Mbil1 0w-40 and Mobil1 15w-40 met it.

Many of the hardest specs published by manufacturers use thos spec as a back bone to teirs excpet they usually add something, like a tougher stability requirement or some such.

Of course HTHS is only important in engines that are either powerful or driven hard or have high powerdensity or are turbo charged.

In your case all 4 conditons apply which is why HTHS is important to you.

Fred..

[Altiman94]

Fred, what do you recommend for my new rebuilt kaE for over the winter here in Iowa. I would like to go synthetic if at all possible.

[PalmerWMD]

1)Fred, are you saying to meet the A3 rating you have to pass the HTHS test?2)What does this really mean? And how are these ratings relating to the HTHS ratings Mobil1 offers?

1) Yes. (at or better than 3.5)2)It's easier to make good HTHS with a thicker oil. This is why mostr thinner oils are not real good in this regime and a big part of why recommendations for performance applications have always centrered on thicker oils.It is <not> a direct correlation but a "somewhat" correlation between vis and HTHS.Generally when you have a thicker oil you can assume good HTHS.But there are some very good synthetic oils that manage to meet a good HTHS than some thicker ones whoese additve+base oil are not so good.This is why some 30 syns can beat out some 40 or even 50 weight non syns in HTHS.

Fred..

[PalmerWMD]

Fred, what do you recommend for my new rebuilt kaE for over the winter here in Iowa. I would like to go synthetic if at all possible.

If its newly rebuilt you still wanna break in, not on a full syn oil.Say the first couple thousand miles on ValvolineDurablend 5w-30.Then switch to either,Castol Syntec 0w-30 ( ONLY the german kind, <not> the one that says ACEA A1 on back, but only the one that says ACEA A3) or M1 0w-40.

Neither are easy to find (usually only Autozone's carry them sometimes MB/Porsche dealers, and not all autozones either) but are among the very best in cold start ( which you will need in your winter climate) while still giving good hartd running protection.

Fred..

[Mayhem_J30]

I do see a problem with published info not showing cold start specs. Unless I'm overlooking it. Then again, what temp would define 'cold start'?

[PalmerWMD]

I am not sure i understand your question.Which company are u asking about?Generally cold start is inferred from 2 numbers:Temp of pumpability and pourability.

Pourabilty is the easier standrd to meet and an oil that pours at -62F may not pump until -42F.

At least one of each is usually published.

Fred..

[Cyberkreig]

I have no idea how you know so much about oil. but I'm glad that you do, and i'm glad that you can write on a 5th grade level (so that i can understand)

[Chingon]

Fred, help me out!! I just got 3 quarts of castrol syntec 5w-50 and was planning to put it into my 240sx with about 170k miles (good compression). The oil I got was 4 bux at k-mart, but check this out, it meets ASCEA A3 and B3, should I do it or not? It's made in the US by the way.

[PalmerWMD]

Its not bad oil as an ACEA A3 rated oil, in its price class I prefer others but you can use it fine.But since you have it, no reason not to use it.Its not extended drain capable due to too much VII's.

Fred...