INJECTOR LEAK*

[locoluna825]

Hey, guys my computer threw an injector leak code and the car idle is bouncing 400-900. I cleared it and it came back. i went and got some new seals i installed them and OMGWTF the first injector is leaking like crazy now, thought it was a bad injector so i grabbed a used one and another two new seals, installed it and it stopped leaking, but the engine wont go away. Ive cleared and it comes back, Ive even driven it until it does away by itself but it just keeps coming back.

I believe read somewhere to take off the fuel rail with the injectors and leave it off with everything plugged in any of them or all start dripping with the key in ON position that = bad injector. Well i went and tried that and the 4th injector in the very back just blew off the rail. and i didn't even bother looking for leaky injectors. So i put the injector back in the rail now the 4th injector is leaking just like the first one was. I'm going to buy new seals ONE MORE TIME because i didn't use Vaseline on them like i was supposed to the first time (so maybe there tearing when i jam them in or back in just like the 4th injector).

SO.... i want to fix this problem, its annoying. When the code first came up none of the injectors were leaking fuel out of them, or so i believe. But i did smell some gas once in a while. Is an Injector leak code even cause by an injector leaking fuel from between the top of the fuel injector and fuel rail? or does the plunger not come all the way down inside the injector causing it to leak into your cylinder, foaling your plugs and causing the bouncing idle, (until the first 15 minutes and the cars all warmed up then the idles fine.) because that makes a whole lot more sense to me than the other stuff, im just getting really pissed off and fed up with this, and my mind IS Just everywhere right now and i cant think straight anymore.

[locoluna825]

UPDATE: changed the seals today and fixed a stripped screw on the fuel rail, so now Ive got new seals and a tighter fuel rail, car not leaking fuel no more but still idling stupid and the engine light is off for now..... im going to change the plugs just in case there fouled out and wires next, needed it anyways.

[OutToWinPAHC]

Nice update.... make sure you lube the o ring seals with some light oil.

[locoluna825]

i did lube the o rings very lightly they went in nice, i went down to get some plugs and wires and the light came back on, no fuel is leaking form the injectors, so i checked the codes again and its the injector leak code. does the injector leak mean the little plunger inside the injector is not closing all the way and leaking into the cylinders?

[OutToWinPAHC]

Yeah it could be an injector that's stuck open for sure causing. Do you know what injector it is by chance? I don't know my obd0 to well, I don't know if it tell you which injector.

If not junk yard a few injectors and swap 1 for one and see if it helps, if not put the other one back in and try the next.

[locoluna825]

well i went to check by pulling of the fuel rail with everything connected and putting the key to on mode to prime the fuel pump, but the 4th one blew off before i could even check sooo no i don't know which it is. i original thought it was 1 but i replaced it with another used one and still doing the same thing. after i put the new plugs and wires i should check for the bad idle then clear computer

[comatoseculture]

why do you have so much pressure it is physically blowing an injector off? Have you checked your fuel pressure?

[locoluna825]

well i noticed the injector that blew off that the seal on it was all smashed and torn because i had previously installed new injectors seals once before but i didn't lubricate them and i just jammed them in

[locoluna825]

UPDATE: put the new plugs and wires in the old plugs were fouled out like i thought but the new stuff barely helped any, bouncing idle is still there it didn't do it on start up right away but if you rev it, it will bounce. Im going ahead and clearing the memory so i unplugged the battery and im it leaving like that for the next 24 hours.

ill have to ride my bike in the meantime NOT jk
Modified by locoluna825 at 7:06 PM 8/22/2009

[locoluna825]

UPDATE: plugged my car in a few minutes ago and took it for a test drive. start up was fine, No engine light, very little idle stumble hardly noticeable, Rev it up, almost died it hit zero and then came back. took it down the street, at a stop stumbling idle was back and was pretty bad, other than that car accelerates and pulls exceptionally well, no miss's or back firing at all. by the time i got home the engine light came back on. INJECTOR LEAK* code once again.

I pulled out my voltage meter and ohms meter but its broken so im going to get another one. im going to test the voltage coming form the ecu to each injector and the resistance with the ohms meter of each injector.

I will reply back soon with results
Modified by locoluna825 at 7:59 PM 8/22/2009

[locoluna825]

ok harness from ecu into the injectors are reading will the car is running 10.4-10.8 volts each. sooo i guess those are ok. and the ohms meter i got only does 1k, umm i don't know much about ohm meters but w/e so i tested the resistance of each injector and they put out about 1.6 k each everyone of them, sooooo i don't know what to do now unless i did that wrong so now im stuck.

help please

[locoluna825]

bump my s*** back up

[locoluna825]

So i picked up a different ohms meter i got a reading of 14.6-14.8 on every injector so im assuming my injectors are not bad, i also cleaned the contacts on all the injectors and pigtails. but im still getting the engine light and the bad stumbling idle. i proceeding to swapping computers from another car. the computer i swapped in was the same kind and was clear of any codes, i plugged it in and drove the car. still the same idle and when i got home the engine light came on once again. i checked the codes on the new ecu, what came up disturbed me somewhat INJECTOR LEAK* i don't know what to do anymore.

[ghettoslide]

Try your fuel pump. If a am not mistaken the pump has two phases. One for cruising and one when you beat on it. Like at WOT the pump receives 12 volts and pumps to the max, but on daily driving it only receives like 10 volts. Dont hold me to those numbers that is just a example of what i am talking about. You could have the pump pupmping at it's max all the time. Does it run good at high RPM and bad in the lower regions?

[locoluna825]

the only time it runs bad is after a cold start up at idle runs like shiiiiiiiii stumbling idle between 700-300 and if you rev it up it will almost drop down 0 i had it die on me a couple times. then after it warms up it idles normally, even if you rev it its almost normal but it still will drop down pretty low but not as low as it were cold. but once your foot is on the gas its absolutely fine it runs great low rpms and hi rpms i just cant get over that it trips me out.

ill look into the fuel pump voltage don't really know how though do i test the resistance of it like a fuel injector or do i test the voltage coming to it from the harness?

thanks for your input

[gingerbredman]

Let me guess, ka24e? I'm having issues as well, it all started with 'a' leaking injector. Took them off, replaced all o-rings and such and had an additional injector leaking. Got some good injectors, fixed the leak, now it hates to crank up, idles like garbage, and has no power. The motor shakes so bad the shifter is like holding a one-handed jackhammer.. i dunno, but it's late, got school in the mornin.. so bump

[s13_maJiK]

this is ironic, I also have this problem. I had a injector that failed (cyl #3)replaced it and all the orings on all 4. Now I have a missfire on cyl 2..im running super rich, timing is right, I have spark, I switched injectors, wires, plugs...Problem did not follow. Went to autozone to get a noid light to see if my injector was pulsing faster than the others. Used the noid light on the other injectors and number 3 cyl is acting up again( worked before i left to pick up the noid light now doesnt work..wtf). I pull the wire off (#3cyl) and it runs better wtf....i feel for you about not knowing what to do anymore..

[locoluna825]

only thing different form you guys is i got my injectors to stop leaking fuel, they all check out fine with the resistance and voltage coming from computer is fine, and my car runs awesome besides the stumbling idle and injector leak code im getting from the engine light. im waiting fora manifold to injector seal set and im going to replace those if it doesn't work im taking it somewhere to be fixed so i can flame them if they dont fix it

[s13_maJiK]

im there with you, just got mine to stop leaking. Turns out my new seals tore already. Put diff ones in, now my car wants to die right when I start it up. Any luck with the seals yet?

[gingerbredman]

The injectors i got fixed the leak, but ever since then it's had hard-starting issues hot or cold, it will sit and idle but the motor shake is violent to put it nicely, and power is equivalent to about 6 hamsters on running wheels fixated to the drivetrain..

even driving at a steady speed the motor still shakes like that, it ran great before the injectors started leaking, runs worse not leaking

I have yet to test voltages and such as I don't have a multimeter or anything handy.

*just throwing this out there, but what would happen if you poked an ignition wire with a test light (while system/motor is running?) random thawt, just curious..

[liquid_cool]

only thing different form you guys is i got my injectors to stop leaking fuel, they all check out fine with the resistance and voltage coming from computer is fine, and my car runs awesome besides the stumbling idle and injector leak code im getting from the engine light. im waiting fora manifold to injector seal set and im going to replace those if it doesn't work im taking it somewhere to be fixed so i can flame them if they dont fix it

this is the most common issue around injectors..the rubber grommet or seal at the manifold..as for the leaking injectors..the only way to know for shure if you have this issue..is to unbolt the rail..lay it somewhere on the motor where you can see it....turn the key to prime the fuel system...if you even get a drop or a small spray..replace the injector...next test...crank the car over ..again with rail removed...after you stop cranking..if you notice a small dribble of fuel on one of the injectors..replace it...the MAF meters the air and adjust the fuel mixture..so any extra..any at all..can have effects on the engine...allso..lack there of fuel..can have the worse effect..detonation and permanant damage....good luck and please..keep us all posted on the issue.

[s13_maJiK]

next test...crank the car over ..again with rail removed...after you stop cranking..if you notice a small dribble of fuel on one of the injectors..replace it...the MAF meters the air and adjust the fuel mixture..so any extra..any at all..can have effects on the engine...allso..lack there of fuel..can have the worse effect..detonation and permanant damage....good luck and please..keep us all posted on the issue.

not quite getting this test, I understand that the MAF meters air and dump fuel accordingly, but if the rail is disconnected it should still squirt fuel as if everything is normal because the air coming in from the intake manifold (where the rail sits in) is unmetered air so the MAF can't adjust to it.

[locoluna825]

UPDATE: i got my intake manifold to injectors seals, i didn't bother putting them in because i noticed that on the harness at the top of the connector the little weather boot is old brittle and exposing the wires, and i can see the wires( im sure lots of you know what im talking about) well on my third injector harness not only is the little weather boot denigrated so is the the rubber around the wires and there just sitting there raw out in the open and on top of that there TOUCHING EACH OTHER!! and most likely sending gall kinds of weird signals to my ecu

so, Ive order some brand new Bosch ev1 injector harness plugs and when they get here im going to install them along with the new seals and a new TPS sensor.

i really hope i tackled it this time. thank you all for your input it will reply when the parts arrive.

[del82]

not quite getting this test, I understand that the MAF meters air and dump fuel accordingly, but if the rail is disconnected it should still squirt fuel as if everything is normal because the air coming in from the intake manifold (where the rail sits in) is unmetered air so the MAF can't adjust to it.

The idea is to get fuel pressure into the rail to check for leaks on the injectors. The car doesn't need to run to do this, just be KOEO. That aside, this is a retarded test, to be honest. Most rails have a tiny, tiny clip holding the injector to the rail as it is supposed to be bolted in place. If those clips were meant to hold that injector in at pressure the rail would probably be clipped in rather than bolted. That method of testing is a great way to break those clips and shoot injectors off the rail like little bottle rockets. I think the OP already experienced this actually. The proper method usually involves an engine steth, you can hear them leaking under pressure.

OP, if you're using OBDII it should have seperate codes for a leak and an electrical fault, fyi. Have you actually replaced the injectors yet? Don't buy used injectors, and don't replace one at a time. You may fix the leak, but the motor won't run right for quite awhile.

(EDIT: Saw that it was a '91. Ignore the OBDII part, but diagnosis isn't any different.)

[locoluna825]

obd 0 is my system im pretty sure there nothing wrong with my injectors ive tested them with an ohm meter and the car just runs to damn good it doesn't miss or shudder or back fire its just that god damned idle.

[s13_maJiK]

The idea is to get fuel pressure into the rail to check for leaks on the injectors. The car doesn't need to run to do this, just be KOEO. That aside, this is a retarded test, to be honest. Most rails have a tiny, tiny clip holding the injector to the rail as it is supposed to be bolted in place. If those clips were meant to hold that injector in at pressure the rail would probably be clipped in rather than bolted. That method of testing is a great way to break those clips and shoot injectors off the rail like little bottle rockets. I think the OP already experienced this actually. The proper method usually involves an engine steth, you can hear them leaking under pressure.

OP, if you're using OBDII it should have seperate codes for a leak and an electrical fault, fyi. Have you actually replaced the injectors yet? Don't buy used injectors, and don't replace one at a time. You may fix the leak, but the motor won't run right for quite awhile.

(EDIT: Saw that it was a '91. Ignore the OBDII part, but diagnosis isn't any different.)

I understand the KOEO test, the 2nd test listed above doesn't make sense to me. Crank it over and see if it sprays fuel? Its going to, it just doesn't seem like a relevant test.

[locoluna825]

you don't "crank" the car you turn yoru key on yoru ignition to ON position that causes the fuel pump to prime and if your injectors were leaky fuel would drip out instead of staying in like they should, they should only let fluid out when the car is actually cranking over. unfortunately for me i could not do this because the injector just shot off the rail. but i think it was from improper seal installation on my half.

[locoluna825]

k guys, i got tired of waiting for the plug harnesses, and i didnt buy a new TPS sensor. so i installed the intake to injector seals AND GUESS WHAT...... The DAMNED engine light turned OFF!!! i cant believe it turned off. like its staying off!! ive been driving around for about 50 miles now and its still off, it didn't stay off that long before it would come back on wAAAAy sooner than that like within less than 5 miles of driving.

~So the engine light is off.

~On a cold start up the cars idle does NOT stumble.

~But it still drops low from revving it then it returns to normal idle speed

~But no more stumbling or low idle drop while driving and pushing the clutch while nearing a stop anymore.

Anyways im very happy, im going to install the plug wires harnesses when they get here anyways because the old ones need to be fixed.

THanks guys for your input~!f***ing cars
Modified by locoluna825 at 8:29 AM 8/29/2009

[Second Shadow]

*just throwing this out there, but what would happen if you poked an ignition wire with a test light (while system/motor is running?) random thawt, just curious..

it depends on which wire your talking about. if your talking about a wire that pulses (signal to injector for example), a very small amount of voltage will be dropped across the test light, prob not enough to effect the injector.

However with pulses that fast I'm betting it will look like nothing's happening, or the light will have a very faint glow with a slight strobe effect. I'm also betting it burns the bulb out pretty quick. you'll also never be able to see anything on a multi meter, the read out just can't move that fast.

the tool for looking at something like that is an O-scope. you can see the amplitude of the pulses, how long they are and how far apart they are.

[liquid_cool]

The idea is to get fuel pressure into the rail to check for leaks on the injectors. The car doesn't need to run to do this, just be KOEO. That aside, this is a retarded test, to be honest. Most rails have a tiny, tiny clip holding the injector to the rail as it is supposed to be bolted in place. If those clips were meant to hold that injector in at pressure the rail would probably be clipped in rather than bolted. That method of testing is a great way to break those clips and shoot injectors off the rail like little bottle rockets. I think the OP already experienced this actually. The proper method usually involves an engine steth, you can hear them leaking under pressure.

OP, if you're using OBDII it should have seperate codes for a leak and an electrical fault, fyi. Have you actually replaced the injectors yet? Don't buy used injectors, and don't replace one at a time. You may fix the leak, but the motor won't run right for quite awhile.

(EDIT: Saw that it was a '91. Ignore the OBDII part, but diagnosis isn't any different.)

ka24 side fed injectors are not clipped in dude...they are in there own cradle, and the rail can be removed to test..allso..an ohm test only test if the electronic componet's of the injector are working..not if it is stuck open and dumping fuel...you can do this same fast and easy test with topfed injectors allso..using utility wire to hold them in place...i dont sugest fast test that dont work for what there intended....the info is good sire.and helpfull to those whithout a bay full of specialty tools at there disposal.