Immigration - closing the borders

[APEXi240]

Read this line again:

Next to oil exports, remittances are Mexicos second-biggest source of foreign income

I think that as a nation we should simply reduce the amount of aid/economic incentives in direct correlation for the amount of dollars in remittances that Mexico as a whole receives from illegal immigrants here.

Obviously it can never be as simple as that, but ideally the Mexican economy should somehow take the hit.

[C-Kwik]

I think that as a nation we should simply reduce the amount of aid/economic incentives in direct correlation for the amount of dollars in remittances that Mexico as a whole receives from illegal immigrants here.

Obviously it can never be as simple as that, but ideally the Mexican economy should somehow take the hit.

Definitely not that simple. It's not like the Mexican government is sending these people here. They come in search of work. For most, its a matter of survival. Hurting their economy will only increase the desperation levels and probably bring more people here.

To be fair though, if there was a simple solution, we'd probably have effected it already. Its a hugely complicated issue.

[barrigas14]

This is my view on how to change things…

Visas of differencing degrees. Of course there are some out there, but these go just an extra step. Also creation of a Government entity that deals with the issuing and enforcement of said Visas and policies. WHY, because obviously, the current law enforcement has 1) it’s own crap to deal with and 2) would be spread thin to enforce everything. Also this new group would have limitations, for instance they can’t just swoop in and take over a case, they have to work along side or behind local governments. That is just one example…there are more.

1) Student visas.

a) Student must show registration, acceptance and current class schedule of said school before they can get a visa. b) Once semester ends, student must either return to og country, register for winter/summer classes or ask for a student work visa which…2) Student work visa:

a. Only for people who are in-between semesters and who want to stay in the US for time being before school semester starts. b. Must following 1.a of the student visa qualifications.

3) Temp work Visa:

a. Visas last 6 months.b. Issued temp SS number.c. Must apply to US first then once accepted must apply to state in which to work in. d. Every month, work has to “check in” with state and pass a drug test.e. Will pay taxes just like everyone else, even SS.f. Will be eligible to get SS IF they want to become a citizen of the US.g. If person wants to visit another state, must notify that state and check in once in that state. h. If person is found to be in another state without notification, that person will be deported immediately and can not come back for 1 year. After 1 year, person has to re-register and go through process again.i. This visa can be turned into a Temp to Citizen Visa:

4) Temp to Citizen Visa:

a. Follows same rules at Temp visa but after 5 consecutive years of living in the US, person becomes citizen.b. Must past a test each year, in English, about history of the US. Becomes hard each year. No penalties if test is not passed. They would just have to retest before moving on. So say they fail the 1st year test, they can not take 2nd year test until they past the 1st year one. c. If fail test, they are eligible to re-test once each month. BUT they don’t have to take it each month, it is up to them. If it takes them 3 years to past 1st year test, then they can take the 2nd year the following month and then the 3rd year test the following completion of 2nd year test.d. Upon becoming US Citizen they are entitled to rights and anything else that a normal US Citizen has.

5) Visiting Visa:a. Only valid for 1 month.b. Must register with US first and once cleared, register with state/s they wish to visit.c. Must check in every 2 weeks within said state/s.

Regarding ALL visas:

- Everyone must pass background checks.- There will be fees for each process and visit. - If you become a US citizen, you will be able to expense ¼ of the price you paid. - Must continue to have a clean record while in the states. You can have up to 1 misdemeanor or lower charge against you. The second one will revoke you ability for 1 year, the 3rd block all attempts forever. Felonies are automatic revocation.While in the US with a Visa you are protected by all the laws that govern US citizens BUT you are not entitled to social government benefits (except in extreme cases). This includes driver’s licenses.

Of course I haven't touched everything...but made some points...

[96Qowner]

And if they just move to somewhere else and lose themselves like 12 million other illegals .... ?

Legislation that isn't enforceable is useless and only causes problems like "Existing While Hispanic" - everyone starts to look like an illegal.

[barrigas14]

And if they just move to somewhere else and lose themselves like 12 million other illegals .... ?

Legislation that isn't enforceable is useless and only causes problems like "Existing While Hispanic" - everyone starts to look like an illegal.

That's why it's enforced by a separate branch. So if those people don't check in, a team is sent to find them.

The people will have finger prints, photos, blood samples, etc. Registered for the process. So it's not like the team will go "hey, there's a mexican, harass!"

If someone is here for working, school, visiting, becoming a citizen they shouldn't have a problem. Its the bad apples that EVERY culture has that will try to get out.

Stop thinking every illegal is someone who wants to rape, plunder, whatever. Many just want a better life.

Besides, look at the Italians, Asians and Irish, they've had some really bad apples but no one talks about their negative impact as much anymore. Another 20 years...we'll be going after another culture.

[96Qowner]

Stop thinking every illegal is someone who wants to rape, plunder, whatever. Many just want a better life.

Yup, I'm just trying to get people to understand that every illegal didn't sneak across the border in the dead of night. The vast majority of them came across legitimately and just didn't go back when they were supposed to. They just wanted a better life.

[AZhitman]

The "plan" sounds well and good, but funding it is another story. That's a lot of "checking" when we're not allowed to "profile", "harass" or "inquire".

[C-Kwik]

Yup, I'm just trying to get people to understand that every illegal didn't sneak across the border in the dead of night. The vast majority of them came across legitimately and just didn't go back when they were supposed to. They just wanted a better life.

Decided to go ahead and try to find the figures. It doesn't appear to be a vast majority. As of 2006, 45% are overstaying visas according to Wikipedia and it's source:

http://www.npr.org/templates/s...85917

Its more than I expected, but its still actually the minority. I wish I could find a breakdown of this by country though. As in How many came from Mexico? Since we are comparing clandestine entries vs legal entries. Other countries would likely have significantly smaller percentages of them sneaking in (obviously).

That said, an interesting point on the Wikipedia page is that the increased difficulty, risk and/or cost of sneaking in has deterred many from going home. That is, apparently, they claim there was a pretty steady cycle of illegals periodically going home and essentially keeping the numbers of illegals here somewhat steady. But the suggestion is that that process has diminished.

Another article I ran into had to do with NAFTA. Apparently, it was a good idea on paper, but execution was sub-par, resulting in a worsened economic state in Mexico, which consequently increased illegal immigration numbers. The article is more than a year old, but seems pretty sound on the surface:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02...login

[barrigas14]

The "plan" sounds well and good, but funding it is another story. That's a lot of "checking" when we're not allowed to "profile", "harass" or "inquire".

Well considering they are not US Citizens and they would have to agree to such procedures, if they don't like it, they can always go to another country...

Slippery slope I know, but again, the database would be up to date with pictures of said person.

Also the funding comes from the fees imposed on the visas and whatnot. Hell you can get some money from the government because it could technically be listed as National Security.

[C-Kwik]

Well considering they are not US Citizens and they would have to agree to such procedures, if they don't like it, they can always go to another country...

Then again, Plenty of US citizens have been subject to profiling. So either we stop profiling altogether or we simply get to profile non-citizens too. hehe.

Also the funding comes from the fees imposed on the visas and whatnot. Hell you can get some money from the government because it could technically be listed as National Security.

As simple as that seems, we'd have to know the actual cost of implementation and decide how to spread out that cost over the visas. Factor in the reduced demand for visas that ensues from increasing the cost and it could get cost prohibitive. This might cause more people to seek illegal entry. Could be counter-productive.

As I've said before, if you want to reduce immigration, reduce the desire to be here. Hell, if the economy keeps going to crap, it may do it naturally.

[barrigas14]

Well looks like more will be leaving soon. DOW just dropped 500...

[audtatious]

Bailout bill sure is working well for us

[Encryptshun]

^ I wonder what Mexico's reaction will be when a bunch of white Americans start showing up asking for work stealing cars.

[AZhitman]

Then again, Plenty of US citizens have been subject to profiling. So either we stop profiling altogether or we simply get to profile non-citizens too. hehe.

Criminal Justice 101: Profiling works.

Bummer.

[96Qowner]

Decided to go ahead and try to find the figures. It doesn't appear to be a vast majority. As of 2006, 45% are overstaying visas according to Wikipedia and it's source:

Aha. I stand corrected, thank you. I did some searching myself and it appears you're correct. Only about half of Mexican illegals came here through legitimate border crossings. I had just run the numbers through my head and it didn't seem reasonable that over 1000 people sneaked across the border every day for decades. But according to what I found, about 500,000/yr come into the country illegally by doing just that.

So if we can "close the border", we'll only have to deal with the other 500,000 Mexicans per year that violate their visas and stay here.

[HashiriyaS14]

Decided to go ahead and try to find the figures. It doesn't appear to be a vast majority. As of 2006, 45% are overstaying visas according to Wikipedia and it's source:

http://www.npr.org/templates/s...85917

I'm astounded that it's even that high.

I figured that, given that anyone with a Visa can effectively be tracked, Mexicans wishing to remain illegally in the US indefinitely would overwhelmingly be border-jumping as opposed to coming through with legal, temporary visas.

[audtatious]

None of the "checks and balances" that were to be in place after the '86 amnesty were enforced so it does not surprise me.

[marlin29311]

Aha. I stand corrected, thank you. I did some searching myself and it appears you're correct. Only about half of Mexican illegals came here through legitimate border crossings. I had just run the numbers through my head and it didn't seem reasonable that over 1000 people sneaked across the border every day for decades. But according to what I found, about 500,000/yr come into the country illegally by doing just that.

So if we can "close the border", we'll only have to deal with the other 500,000 Mexicans per year that violate their visas and stay here.

I'd rather have the overstayed ones than the ones jumping the border. Borderhoppers are completly untraceable, whereas the visa'd ones we at least have some idea what's going on and can in the future remove them when the system catches up.